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why do the shia hate the sahaba

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(salam)

key fa haal ya muslimoon, ana taa'baan al yome lekin shia astagfirullah. well aaki ive spoken to many shias i just cant take the fact they speak the same [Edited Out] rather all shias are brain washed with this truama i guess u need to see ur gp ;) .spice up ur life, well im still stay cool i havent said anything bad to u people since i care about u people u inflict pain upon ur selfs and still think its is a means of expressing love. lolzzzzzzzzzzzzz ok betta cut it short (salam)

Salam

LOL

We shia are brainwashed???

Everytime you post, you bring a smile to my face.

Of course, as you put it, being a shia is only about beating ourselves.

On a seperate note, what do you say about the ill treatment of some sahahbas by others? Didnt uthman have a prominent sahahba beaten so sevrely in public that he died from his wounds 3 days later? All this because he had a codex of the quran that he had compiled?

Also, how about we take a step back and think for a second. I have never seen that a requirement of shiism is to curse the sahahba. So why do you take it on yourself to label all "shias" as cursers of the sahabas? A few shias already have stated they are against the practice.... why dont you use your intellect and distinguish from the religion (sect) and the person. Its like saying all sunnis are bad because of sadam, osama etc etc.

Wa salam

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The only protection for this Ummah is to stick to the way of the Companions and the first generations.

Salam

Follow the companions? How many do you know of? 5? 6? werent there thousands?

ok ok.

The only protection for the ummah, is to stick to the way of the companions and the first generations..... Do you not include the holy prophet (pbuh+HF) in this?

And what if a companion goes against what the holy prophet(pbuh+HF)? Then do you still hold the companion in high regard? Surely one who has had the greatest honor of being with the greatest prophet (pbuh+HF) should not make such a mistake.

And what of companions that have upset the holy prophet (pbuh+HF)? Would you follow them?

Wa salam

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Bismillah

Salam Alaikum

Let's see the opposite of the photo, which will make the situation more clear and the "Munafiqat" will come into the light. Insha-Allah.

====================

Why Salafies/Sunnies don't hate and send Lanah on these Sahabah

In the history of Islam, if someone has really damaged Islam, by introducing “Evil Innovations” in it, then it is Umar Ibne Al-Khattab.

The extent of these “Evil Innovations” of Umar is great. Let us quote here only reaction of Maulla Ali (as) regarding these Bidahs of Umar. In the book "Khilafah" by Hizb at-Tahrir we read the following:

“... As for the appointment of the six people by 'Umar, it was a nomination to them by him upon the request of the Muslims. Then 'Abdul Rahman ibn 'Auf consulted the Muslims about whom they wanted from the six people. The majority wanted 'Ali if he adhered to the practices of Abu Bakr and 'Umar, otherwise they wanted 'Uthman. When 'Ali rejected to adhere to the practices (/Sunnah/Bidah) of Abu Bakr and 'Umar, 'Abdul Rahman ibn 'Auf gave the pledge to 'Uthman and the people gave their pledge …….”

More Sunni References:

1. al Bidayah wa al Nihaya Volume 7 page 146

2. Sharh Fiqh Akbar page 66 “Fadail Naas badh ai Rasulullah”

3. Iqd al Fareed Volume 2 page 213

4. Tareekh Abu Fida Volume 1 page 166 Dhikr Maqaathil Umar

5. Tareekh Khamees Volume 2 page 255

6. Tareekh Tabari Volume 5 page 2793 Dhikr Sunnat Chapter 23

7.  Tareekh Kamil Volume 3 page 35 Dhikr Shura

Can anyone really understand this concept of khilafaath? It was so important that:

- The Sheikhain ran towards Saqifa, abandoning the funeral of Rasulullah (s).

-  The Sahaba whilst debating over the khilafath at Saqifa bani Sa’ada abused and attacked one another

- Abu Bakr sought to secure Imam ‘Ali (as)’s bayya via duress and Umar threatened to set on fire the home of Sayyida Fatima (as) with her family and eminent Sahaba inside if bayyah was not given.

Despite such importance, Imam ‘Ali (as) turned his back on leadership as he refused to abide by the Bidah of Umar.

Let’s see some of the Evil Innovations of Umar, so that we can understand why Maulla Ali (as) rejected the Caliphate.

==================================================

Bidah 1- Umar's innovations in Islamic Sharia in dealing with Christians

==================================================

The man who really turned Orthodox Islam into a Racist & Xenophobic movement, as seen today, was Caliph Umar.

Many do not know that majority of the Sunni Islamic rituals & beliefs were put into place by Caliph Umar based on 'his' interpretations of quran and prophet's (saww) sunnah.

When Umar made a peace treaty with the Christians of Syria, he offered them entirely new terms in a clear document in order to humiliate them. All these new terms never existed in the times of Rasool Allah [saww]. Sufyan Thawri, Tabari, Shibli Naumani, Ibne Taymiyyah, Ibne Hazm and many more Ulama and Fuqaha of Ahle-Sunnah reported this peace of treaty in their works.

Let us see all these new terms closely.

1. Christians should not hinder any Muslim from staying in their churches for three days during which they offer them food and serve the Muslims.

Comment:  Rasool Allah saww also made several pacts with Christians in his Life. Can Salafies show us any such term by Rasool Allah saww (i.e. he ordered the Christians to not to hinder any Muslim from staying in their churches for 2 days)?

2. They ought to give them their seats if the Muslims wish to sit down.

3. Christians should not resemble Muslims in anything, such as their dress, tiaras, turbans or shoes or parting of the hair. They must wear long hats.

4. They should not ride a donkey with a saddle.

5. They must shave their foreheads.

Comment: Shibli Naumani in his „Al-Farooq“ tried to defend Umar by saying that he only asked not to wear the dresses that Muslims used to wear, but to wear those dresses which were their original dresses. And all that was not for humiliating the Christians, but only in order to maintain the different National characteristics.

Our simple question is, if Shibli Naumani (or his followers, as he has already passed away) can show us a single incident from Life of Rasool Allah saww that such orders were ever given by him? Didn't Muhammad know that keeping and maintaining the different national characteristics is so important that he must have asked the Christians not to resemble the Muslims in anything.

And what about Allah? Did He also forget to reveal it to his Prophet [saww], in order to remember him this important thing?

And what about banning to ride a donkey with saddle? Was it too for maintaining different national characteristics? And if maintaining this differences between 2 nations is so important, then why Rasool Allah [saww] didn't order for it?

And what about shaving the foreheads? One of the most humiliating things that one can do to other. What lame excuse can be given for this?

6. They should not bury their dead next to Muslims and must not read loudly in their churches

7. They should not mourn loudly over their dead.

Comment: Where did Rasool Allah saww ban Christians from doing this and their other religious practices?

8. The Christian clan of Banu Taghlab was prohibited to give baptism to their children.

Comment: Shibli Naumani tried to defend Umar by saying that nobody knew if a child would have become Muslim later. That's why Umar banned this practice of baptism.

Our simple question is, didn't Christians, who got baptism as child, later on become Muslims? Did Rasool Allah [saww] ever ban Christians for doing baptism in his times, due to the fear of child becoming Muslim later on?

Sunni References:

1) „Alfarooq“ by Shibli Naumani, part 2nd, page 288-291, published by Maktaba Rehmania, Urdu Bazar, Lahore, Pakistan.

2) Ibne Taymiyyah in his Fatawa, vol. 28, page 652-654.

3) Ibne Hazm, in his Al-Muhalla ("The Sweetened",Vol. 4, part 7)

and many more.....

=============================================

Taliban's banning Hindus to wear that dress that Muslims wear

=============================================

A good example is the current Taliban dictate on Hindus, which has its origins in Umar's Fatwa (i.e. Christians should not resemble Muslims in anything, such as their dress, tiaras, turbans or shoes or parting of the hair ...... etc.).

Many Muslims condemned this act of Taliban and considered it to be against Islam and humanity. But they don't know that majority of their Islamic rituals & beliefs were put into place by Caliph Umar based on 'his' innovations in Islamic Sharia.

Taliban did nothing new, but they only followed Umar's Sunnah. So, it is Umar who has to be mainly condemned for these innovations in Islamic Sharia. Condemnation of Taliban is a secondary thing as compared to Umar.

Umar's innovations bringing bad name to Islam

=================================

Christians are doing a big propaganda by using these innovations of Umar, in order to prove that Islam is an inhuman religion. It allows Muslims to humiliate the followers of other religions.

But the truth is this that Islam of Muhammad [saww] is free of all these inhuman practices. It is a religion of kindness, pity and compassion. Non-Muslims have full rights to follow their religion and no one is allowed to humiliate them.

Unfortunately, all the Sunni Fuqaha have taken these shameful and humiliating innovations of Umar as part of their religion and made them the part of “Islamic Sharia”. Instead of condemning these Sunnah (/Bidahs) of Umar (which are totally contrary to the teachings of Islam), they praise Umar for these cruel innovations.

What Umar did, it has already become past. But who is more guilty “Today”?

1) Christians? (Who do propaganda against Islam by using these Fatwas)

2) Or Fuqaha of Ahle Sunnah? (Who have taken these cruel innovations as part of their religion)

============================================

Modern Islamic Movements who want to create Islamic States

============================================

Unfortunately, almost all the modern Sunni Islamic movements who want to create Islamic-States, are not ready to blame Umar for all these innovations and clear the Islamic Sharia from these inhuman and humiliating laws. For example, Maulana Modoodi made no criticism upon it in his book “The Islamic State”. It is true for “Ikhwanul Muslimeen” too.

And  Taqiyy-ud-Din al-Nabahani of “Hizbul Tahrir” has discussed these innovations of Umar in his book "The Islamic State". He has not accepted these actions of Umar as cruel innovations, but tried to prove that they are not so inhuman as they seem to be (same as Shibli Naumani).

All these parties have modern thoughts than Taliban. But I am afraid that they will not prove themselves better than Taliban in some cases. And we still have to see any condemnation of Umar's innovations regarding the humiliation of Non-Muslim minorities, by all these parties.

===========

Well, I have to discuss a lot of more material about Umar Ibn Khattab, but not before getting any answer of above innovation.

Our Salafi/Ahle Sunnah brothers cannot keep on neglecting this innovation of Umar (if they are True and really don't put Umar Ibn Khattab above the Sharia of Islam).

Was Salam.

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QUOTE (samrqandi @ May 16 2003, 03:59 PM)

The only protection for this Ummah is to stick to the way of the Companions and the first generations.

Salam

Follow the companions? How many do you know of? 5? 6? werent there thousands?

ok ok.

The only protection for the ummah, is to stick to the way of the companions and the first generations..... Do you not include the holy prophet (pbuh+HF) in this?

And what if a companion goes against what the holy prophet(pbuh+HF)? Then do you still hold the companion in high regard? Surely one who has had the greatest honor of being with the greatest prophet (pbuh+HF) should not make such a mistake.

And what of the companions that have upset the holy prophet (pbuh+HF)? Would you follow them?

Wa salam

Edited by Syed Asad Ali Naqvi

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Bismillah

Salam Alaikum

And why our Salafi/Sunni brothers don't hate this companion.

Uthman's innovation in distribution of Zakat

Narrated Ibn Al-Hanafiya:

If Ali had spoken anything bad about 'Uthman then he would have mentioned the day when some persons came to him and complained about the Zakat officials of 'Uthman. 'Ali then said to me, "Go to 'Uthman and say to him, 'This document contains the regulations of spending the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle so order your Zakat officials to act accordingly." I took the document to 'Uthman. 'Uthman said, "Take it away, for we are not in need of it." I returned to 'Ali with it and informed him of that. He said, "Put it whence you took it."

Narrated Muhammad bin Suqa: I heard Mundhir At-Tuzi reporting Ibn Hanafiya who said, "My father sent me saying, 'Take this letter to 'Uthman for it contains the orders of the Prophet concerning the Sadaqa.' "

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 343

No comments from our side. But comments from our Salafi friends are welcome.

Was Salam.

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(salam),

Regarding the topic, I think shia were historically called shia'an-Ali(as), we are those who love and follows Ali(as), why we do that, coz Allah loved the Prophet (pbuh), and the Prophet loved Ali (as) the most, many a times calling him his brother, many a times relating himself (pbuh) to Ali (as)(mind the grammar).

As it was characterisitic of Ali (as) to hate what the prophet hates and love what the prohpet loved (not like other sahabas) so those who deny the sayings of the prophet (pbuh) should be hated always as did the Ali (as).

So what we do is nothing bad but following footprints of our Imam, and if any one has any objection on that, then I would like to quote the meaning of th Ayat (I have got bad memory couldnt remember the reference), that a community shall be rewarded as will there leaders be...

So those who wants to get lead be others should decide it now and correct themselves after comparing their lead with Ali (as) which directs to the prophet (pbuh)......

Was Salam,

Rizwan

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I have read replies and counter-replies from Sunni's/Shia's on this Subject . I say no one has the Right to Abuse or curse Sahaba's in any form. Shia's look at history and accuse Hazrat Umar, Hazrat Abu-Bakr and Hazrat Usman for all the wrong doings after Prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) death. Sunni's defend them as they should because they beleive in the above Sahaba's.

Brother's/Sisters, do we seriously think History has not been manipulated and Fabricated Hadeeths have not been added to keep this Ummah divided. Were we there to Judge who did what 1400 years ago. Sunnis/Shias both claim Prophet Mohammed ( pbuh) is our Teacher and Last Prophet. No Matter which Imam you follow on whose Life Imams are giving their Judgements, obviously Prophet Mohammed ( pbuh). You see under Christianity what they say no matter which Sect. you belong to, it all ends at Jesus Christ. So, why can't we Shia's/Sunnis say the same thing La Illaha Illallah Mohammed-ur-Rasool Allah". Leave the rest at Allah to Judge. Lets get under this Banner.

This bickering among our selves will never end. It has not ended in the last 1400 years and I doubt we will shoot any

Miracles to end it now.

Br. Salmany, I have respect for you because of your in-depth knowledge but have noticed in alot of Posts if any Sunni, slanders Shia or Shiasm you join hands with them with your witty comments. With the same token you have Under your name " Shia-Sunni" Unity. I suggest throw it out the window.

Samrgandi, thanks for Mocking Shias in your other Posts. If you consider your self to be on the True Path then I suggest you read " Surah Al-Kafirun". Message in that Surah is let others beleive in what they beleive and Mohammed ( pbuh) you stick with Islam. It does not asks you to Mock other religion and call them Kafir. Let Allah be the Judge.

Sometimes, I do wonder the way Sunnis Claim to be on the right Path will be the only ones will be lead to the Gates of Heaven and all others will be pushed in Hell. On Judgement day, Sunnis have done most of the Job of Allah. Because they already know every body except them are going to Hell Fire.

Bro, Ibn Salafiye, I dont have anything against you. But thanks for not saying (salam) to every body. Shia knows where we stand in your eyes. Ibn Salafiye, Wahabies in Pakistan have created a Havoc with the Lives of Shias. One example. A Caller called Shia Doctor in Karachi, Pakistan and said " I am going to Kill you by next week". Shia doctor Replied " I have small Kids, who ever is giving you money to kill me I will pay double, my kids are very small". Caller replied " I am not killing a Shia for Money, I am killing shia to go to Heaven". Next Week, Shia Doctor was killed. Thanks for Spreading Islam the Wahabi way. I guess the way Islam is taught now Kill Infidels you will go straight to Heaven. Now tell me, who is Playing God here, Allah himself or Mullah's.

Now something about Shia's I have found. With all due respect, Shia's do exaggerate about alot of Stuff. If i bring the List it will be like Sis Abbie's post 1 page long. Shia's beleive in 12 Imams fine no problem there but when they exaggerate their Status above Anbiya's then it's the Problem. They cite Prophet Moses example in Quran. I say if Prophet Moses was aleviated to Imamat then by calling 12 IMAM's does not in any way alleviate their ranking above Anbiya's. I say 12 Imam's were righteous people who were our guide and explained us Islam after our Last Prophet ( pbuh). But in no way you can rank them above Anbiya's.

There are many more Issue's regarding Shia's, but will Post later.

Sorry for being so Long. Have been reading your all Posts for a Long time, so I guess alot of it is coming out. Sorry, if I have offended any body.

Khuda-hafiz

IMTOOO

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Al salam alaykom

i just want to know how can you even think that people such as Abu Baker, Omar bin al Khatab, Othman bin Afan (Radeya Allah anhom), had doubts in their hearts!??!?!?!?!?how could Abu Baker (Radeya Allah anh) have doubts in his heart when he was the first man to believe him and convert to Islam, how could he have doubts in his heart when he married his daughter to the prophet (pbuh), how could omar bin al Khatab have doubts in his heart when he converted to islam directly after hearing a couple of verses from the Quran, also , Omar bin al Khatab said it loud and clear, he said that he is imegrating to madina and dared anyone to stop him!!!! does that sound like a coward?????????or have doubt in his heart????????????????????????Othman bin Afan donated 1/3 of his money to the islamic army!!!!!!!!!does anyone have some doubt in their hearts do this!!!!!????????????? no!!!! IS THAT YOUR REASON OF HATING THESE MEN???????????????????????? MUSLIMS MUST PUT AWAY THEIR DIFFERNECES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CAN'T YOU SEE???????? DIVIDED WE WILL FALL!!!! UNITED WE WILL STAND!!!!!!!!!!! why do you think that muslims ruled the world in the past?????? because there wasn't suni or shiaa, there was ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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accepting to be a governer in a government means i accept the government and its leadership and i represent it in the area allahu akbar.. thats all that it means no twists no turns

I belive umar(RA) was hated coz he crushed the fire worshiping persians and the polytheist byzantines

the kufar probably worked on minor disputes and made us squabble the way we r today

The Shia do not hate the Sahaba. It's all in your head. The Sahaba were in thousands. How come Sahabiyath only evolves around Khulafa-e-Rashidah when it comes to your kind???? You never mention great Sahaba as Hazrath Sulaiman Farsi [ra], Hazrath Ammar-e-Yasir [ra], Hazrath Ovais Karni [ra], Hazrath Abuzar Gaffari [ra], Hazrath Habib ibne Mazahir [ra], Hazrath Malik Ushtar [ra], Hazrath Hamza [ra] etc. Never mind about praising them. It allways boils down to the first three then a little bit of praise for the fourth at the end. Full stop! You never move on from here. If you want to talk about Khulafa-e-Rashidah then stick to four but if you want to yapp on about the Sahaba then at least stop being bias. Sahaba were in thousands and thousands.

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Pacho sorry to break this news for you but you are stupid.

Shia dont hate Sahabas. Shia hate the munadikeen the killers and opressors who killed Prophets Family members or opressed them.

u can name them omar abu bakar othman marwan khalid bin walid muawiyah abu sufyan yazid and few more ...

and we respect true sahabas more than u sunnis .........

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Pacho sorry to break this news for you but you are stupid.

Shia dont hate Sahabas. Shia hate the munadikeen the killers and opressors who killed Prophets Family members or opressed them.

u can name them omar abu bakar othman marwan khalid bin walid muawiyah abu sufyan yazid and few more ...

and we respect true sahabas more than u sunnis .........

Hahaha I dont think you have read your books.

According to your books, only 6 or 7 Muslims of the Sahabah remained Muslim, and allllllllllllllll the rest of them Apostated from Islam.

So it's safe to say it's more then a 'few'

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Hahaha I dont think you have read your books.

According to your books, only 6 or 7 Muslims of the Sahabah remained Muslim, and allllllllllllllll the rest of them Apostated from Islam.

So it's safe to say it's more then a 'few'

Yes initially there were only around that number, since the minorty followed Ali ibn Abi talib and the majority apostated by following the fake khilafat of abu bakr and this is even mentioned in you're own bukhari.

Edited by Labbayk

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Hahaha I dont think you have read your books.

According to your books, only 6 or 7 Muslims of the Sahabah remained Muslim, and allllllllllllllll the rest of them Apostated from Islam.

So it's safe to say it's more then a 'few'

Really??? Would you like to put references forward as evidence and proof, from Ahle Tashee books, to back your claim??? Are you familiar with what's within Ahle Sunnah books regarding, not only Asshaab-e-Rasool, but also Azwaj-e-Rasool??? The Ahle Sunnah point of view, regardding the Sahaba, is [Kullohum-Udool] they were all just. Can you, or anybody else, justify this term???

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Hahaha I dont think you have read your books.

According to your books, only 6 or 7 Muslims of the Sahabah remained Muslim, and allllllllllllllll the rest of them Apostated from Islam.

So it's safe to say it's more then a 'few'

I know your Sunni so im not surprised at ur stupidity.. i dont know which books u have read which u dont mention lmao ..

if u were not stupid u would be a Shia in 1st place .. and knew Shia respect true Sahabas more than u and not the munafikeen who killed and opressed PROPHETS CHILDREN .....

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I know your Sunni so im not surprised at ur stupidity.. i dont know which books u have read which u dont mention lmao ..

if u were not stupid u would be a Shia in 1st place .. and knew Shia respect true Sahabas more than u and not the munafikeen who killed and opressed PROPHETS CHILDREN .....

Im stupid?

Well, apparently YOU have not read your own Books or know your own theology...soo you really should't be calling other people stupid.

Muhammed bin Yaqoob Kulaini, the most prominent Shi'ite scholar of Hadith, quotes Imam Baqir as saying:

'People became apostates after the death of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), except for three people: Miqdad ibn Aswad, Abu Dharr Ghifari and Salmaan Farsi.' He continues:

The shi'ite scholor of Hadith, Ni' matullah Jazaa-i-rii writes in the 'Anwaare nomaaniyyah' page 245, vol.2.: "The shia Imaamiyyah are of the opinion that the khilafah of Hazrat Ali (Radiyallahhu Anhu) is by nassi jalli (clear text) and all the sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum), are kafirs, and continue to slander them. They (shias) believe in the imaamah of Jafar Sadiq, (Rehmatullah Alayhi), and his sinless offspring. The author of this book belongs to this group and only this sect is successful and saved (from jahannum). Abii Jafar (Imaam Baqir) says that after Rasulullah, (Sallalahu Alayhi Wasallam), all the sahaba became murtid (turn apostate) apart from these: Miqdad Bin Aswad, abu Zar Ghafari and Salaman Farsi (Radiyallahu Anhum). They refused to make Bayah (pay allegiance) to Abu Bakr, until they called Amirul Momineen. He made Bayah. Then the three of them also made bayah. Hence all agreed upon the khilaafah of Abu Bakr. [usol-e-kafi, vol.2.; Raudah kaafi, page246; Rijal Kashi, page 504.]

And the list goes on, this is only 2 'hadiths' if you can even call them that.

Edited by Glow

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Im stupid?

Well, apparently YOU have not read your own Books or know your own theology...soo you really should't be calling other people stupid.

Muhammed bin Yaqoob Kulaini, the most prominent Shi'ite scholar of Hadith, quotes Imam Baqir as saying:

'People became apostates after the death of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), except for three people: Miqdad ibn Aswad, Abu Dharr Ghifari and Salmaan Farsi.' He continues:

The shi'ite scholor of Hadith, Ni' matullah Jazaa-i-rii writes in the 'Anwaare nomaaniyyah' page 245, vol.2.: "The shia Imaamiyyah are of the opinion that the khilafah of Hazrat Ali (Radiyallahhu Anhu) is by nassi jalli (clear text) and all the sahabah (Radiyallahu Anhum), are kafirs, and continue to slander them. They (shias) believe in the imaamah of Jafar Sadiq, (Rehmatullah Alayhi), and his sinless offspring. The author of this book belongs to this group and only this sect is successful and saved (from jahannum). Abii Jafar (Imaam Baqir) says that after Rasulullah, (Sallalahu Alayhi Wasallam), all the sahaba became murtid (turn apostate) apart from these: Miqdad Bin Aswad, abu Zar Ghafari and Salaman Farsi (Radiyallahu Anhum). They refused to make Bayah (pay allegiance) to Abu Bakr, until they called Amirul Momineen. He made Bayah. Then the three of them also made bayah. Hence all agreed upon the khilaafah of Abu Bakr. [usol-e-kafi, vol.2.; Raudah kaafi, page246; Rijal Kashi, page 504.]

And the list goes on, this is only 2 'hadiths' if you can even call them that.

What you didn't say is what nasibi site you copied/pasted this from. Here I'll help you out [url Edited]/index.php?showtopic=2714

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

The Sahaba are those who are agreed with Allah and Allah is agreed with them, hence we say (ra) .

Edited by Yousuf Ahmed

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

The Sahaba are those who are agreed with Allah and Allah is agreed with them, hence we say (ra) .

Too bad some of them were rapists and mass murderers, so much for "agreeing with Allah"......

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Too bad some of them were rapists and mass murderers, so much for "agreeing with Allah"......

Well, for some people Allah forgiving them is not enough! If when imposing there logic they don't come to that conclusion, then either them or Allah must be wrong and defiantly they cannot be wrong. Shirk and Arrogance combined Authobillah.

Not to mention with the whole legislated lying and fabrication against most of these individuals to furthers ones own political/ideological goal...nothing is of the table.

What you didn't say is what nasibi site you copied/pasted this from.

And yes, I did copy it from a Sunni site, but is all of it exactly how it was stated in your books? Is this the common Belief of the Shia? Did they copy word for word what your 'hadiths' say without trying to twist the meaning? Do they site authentic, verifiable source references?

The answer to all of these Questions are Yes! So it should not matter where I copied it from, whether it be from a site or from the face of the moon.

Edited by Glow

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Well, for some people Allah forgiving them is not enough! If when imposing there logic they don't come to that conclusion, then either them or Allah must be wrong and defiantly they cannot be wrong. Shirk and Arrogance combined Authobillah.

Not to mention with the whole legislated lying and fabrication against most of these individuals to furthers ones own political/ideological goal...nothing is of the table.

And yes, I did copy it from a Sunni site, but is any of is all of it exactly how it was stated in your books? Is this the common Belief of the Shia? Did they copy word for word what your 'hadiths' say without trying to twist the meaning? Do they site authentic references?

The answer to all of these Questions are Yes! So it should not matter where I copied it from, whether it be from a site or from the face of the moon.

When did they seek repentance? Regardless they (most of them) were against the Imam of their time which would make them without a doubt nawasib kuffar.

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When did they seek repentance? Regardless they (most of them) were against the Imam of their time which would make them without a doubt nawasib kuffar.

As for Seeking repentance? Unless you were there every second of there life, you have absolutely no idea if they sought repentance or not. All you do is speculation. Furthermore, repentance and Ibada is not to be made a show. It is supposed to be a personal thing between you an Allah. You don't pray or seek repentance for the sake of people watching you pray. It is to be sought solely and only for Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Last but not least, nice try, but this is not an thread about the legitimacy about Imamate. We have a thread for that. This thread was to prove to some individuals that the VAST majority of the Sahabah are hated by some people except for a few, and clear up a previous misunderstanding of theirs that most of the Sahabah were 'respected' and only a few were hated in there books.

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As for Seeking repentance? Unless you were there every second of there life, you have absolutely no idea if they sought repentance or not. All you do is speculation. Furthermore, repentance and Ibada is not to be made a show. It is supposed to be a personal thing between you an Allah. You don't pray or seek repentance for the sake of people watching you pray. It is to be sought solely and only for Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

The only one here who is speculating is you because if you have no proof they repented why did you assume it? Making up stories about false tawbas really sums up the disgusting morals of your tajseemi sect.

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The only one here who is speculating is you because if you have no proof they repented why did you assume it? Making up stories about false tawbas really sums up the disgusting morals of your tajseemi sect.

False Taubaa? You are always supposed to assume best about Anyone who says Lā 'ilāha 'illā Allāh, `Muhammad rasūl Allāh and their Ibbada regardless about how you feel about them unless you have 100% solid proof stating the otherwise, which you don't. If you knew anything about the Sunnah then you'd know that, but you don't so I guess its not your fault. Your just another feeble minded individual with a big mouth and a sharp tongue.

And may I remind you, we are not the one who allow and encourage legislated lying to further ones goals. :rolleyes:

Edited by Glow

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False Taubaa? You are always supposed to assume best about Anyone who says Lā 'ilāha 'illā Allāh, `Muhammad rasūl Allāh and their Ibbada regardless about how you feel about them unless you have 100% solid proof stating the otherwise, which you don't. If you knew anything about the Sunnah then you'd know that, but you don't so I guess its not your fault. Your just another feeble minded individual with a big mouth and a sharp tongue.

And may I remind you, we are not the one who allow and encourage legislated lying to further ones goals. :rolleyes:

Funny, if someone kills someone you should assume they repented...... *facepalm* How fabricated your religion is:

O Prophet (Muhammad (pbuh) )! strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.

( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #73)

Edited by haidar al karrar

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Funny, if someone killsl someone you should assume they repented...... *facepalm* How fabricated your religion is:

O Prophet (Muhammad (pbuh) )! strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.

( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #73)

Yes you should. Like I said you have to have 100% proof they have not repented all the way up to there death. Just because they repent does not mean they are removed from having the (worldly) Punishment placed on them, all it means is that if there repentance was sincer they will receive some mercy in the akhira from Allah, where the Punishments and Rewards are at a much greater scale.

Again, if you knew anything about the Sunnah, you would know better, but you don't. All you are is a feeble minded individual with a big mouth and a sharp tongue.

Edited by Glow

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Yes you should. Like I said you have to have 100% proof they have not repented all the way up to there death. Just because they repent does not mean they are removed from having the (worldly) Punishment placed on them, all it means is that if there repentance was sincer they will receive some mercy in the akhira from Allah, where the Punishments and Rewards are at a much greater scale.

Again, if you knew anything about the Sunnah, you would know better, but you don't. All you are is a feeble minded individual with a big mouth and a sharp tongue.

Yes I don't know anything about the Sunnah of murderers and rapists, and I thank Allah (swt) greatly for protecting me from such filth. In the meanwhile the Sunnah of Rasulallah (pbuh) tells us to confront the munafiqeen:

The Messenger of Allah (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã) said: “When you will find people of bid`ah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion after me, do baraa’ (disassociation) from them and increase in your insults (sabihim) to them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and do not learn their bid`ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.’”

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/exposing-bidah-reward-for-doing-so.html

Edited by haidar al karrar

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Yes I don't know anything about the Sunnah of murderers and rapists, and I thank Allah (swt) greatly for protecting me from such filth. In the meanwhile the Sunnah of Rasulallah (pbuh) tells us to confront the munafiqeen:

The Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “When you will find people of bid`ah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion after me, do baraa’ (disassociation) from them and increase in your insults (sabihim) to them, and oppose (them) and bring evidences against them so they may not become greedy in bringing fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and do not learn their bid`ah (innovation). Allah will write for you hasanaat (good deeds) for this, and will raise you darajaat (levels) in the next life.’”

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/12/exposing-bidah-reward-for-doing-so.html

This has to do with people of innovation and who try to spread there innovation among the people. Furthermore, the Authentic Sunnah of the Prophet, you punish the innovators until they leave there innovation.

Anyways, The Fiqh of dealing with an Innovator and with a regular Sinful person are completely different.

You can Murder, do a Sincere Tauba, and it may be accepted by Allah thus receiving some mercy in the Akhira, but the Worldly Punishment is still be applied to them.

You may be an Innovator, and do Sincere Tauba, but your Tauba is not accepted until you leave that Innovation you are committing.

The Hukkma of these two things are totally different, dont compare apples and oranges.

Edited by Glow

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assalaamu alykum dear brother

just wanted to know how you understand the verse in the verse 29 of suarah fath?

Here Allah Himself testifies to the pleasure of Allah with the companions of the prophet (saw)?

on account of this texts and many other narrations of the like, i would guard my tongue against vilifying the companions of Allah's Apostle (saw).

Salam Alaikum

The Sunnis have chosen to believe the ultimate decency and piety of every single companions of the Prophet (s), which if were true will be somthing of a miracle from Allah.

Such a belief is not found anywhere in the Quran.

The Shias have chosen to believe that every companion was an individual, and will be seen as an individual, and they included a whole variety of people, just as any community does. We don;t brand all companions kafir, or munafiq, or momin. They each have their own individual merit or lack of merit.

Because we dont accept that sahabah as a whole are 100% believers, and also criticize a few of them for their shortcomings and bad deeds in regards to Islam, which have been recorded in books of sunnah and history, we are accused of the insulting of the whole community of sahabah, which some Sunnis think is Kufr.

The companions of the Prophet MOhammad (s) includes uncountable no. of people, many we will never know about. There are only a few that we dislike for hurting the Ahlul Bait (s), and there are a few which we see as the greatest of companions, but there were also many others about whom we don't know enough to make them our hero and villian.

The companions had been divided into factions from the day the Prophet (s) died, even before. Some of them decided to follow their tribal elders in accepting Abu Bakr as the first caliph, while a few decided to give their allegiance to Ali ibn Abi talib Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. This split had caused much fighting, and to prevent the complete destruction of Islam, Ali (a) decided not to fight against Abu Bakr for what he believed was the usurping of his rights as the leader of the Ummah nominated by the Prophet (s) himself.

Such tension can be seen when Abu Bakr and Umar threatened the household of Ali (a) and his supporters to give allegiance to him, soon after the Prophet (s) died and Abu Bakr became 'caliph' through the fear others had of Umar. The tension between Fatimah (a) bint Rasool (s) and Abu Bakr and Umar is all to clear in books of hadith and history.

Then there were those Muslims who refused to accept Abu Bakr as the caliph, and refused to give him their zakat, and Abu Bakr sent an army to forecfully get their zakat or kill them as apostates.

Such tension continued when Umar became caliph according to the wish of Abu Bakr, and then Uthman bcame caliph. When Uthman was killed Ali (a) occupied this seat of caliphate and subsequently there were the civl wars of jamal, siffin and nahrwan. The companions fought each other, killed each other.

With this history of the companions, Shias cannot believe in the ultimate and complete decency of every companion and of the companionship of the Prophet (s) as a whole. we can' take every companion as a role model. Out role model are only the select few.

The QUran has NEVER vouched for the belief of every single companion. Actualy the Quran, and the ahadith, mention that there were munafiqeen around the Prophet (s), i.e. his companions who pretended to be Muslim but were not.

However, the Quran has vouched for the perfect purity of the AHlul Bait - Fatimah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, Fatimah's father the Prophet (s), her husband Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, her two sons Hasan and Husain Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, and then the nine Imams after Husain Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

If you get two trays:

one tray full of many many glasses of water, and some water is dirty, som is pure, some is poisoned, but you don't know which ones

and the other tray contains five glasss that you know are pure...

Which tray would you take your water from?

Ths Shias have decided to take from the tray of only pure water.

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assalaamu alykum dear brother

just wanted to know how you understand the verse in the verse 29 of suarah fath?

Here Allah Himself testifies to the pleasure of Allah with the companions of the prophet (saw)?

on account of this texts and many other narrations of the like, i would guard my tongue against vilifying the companions of Allah's Apostle (saw).

(salam)

If you read 48:29 carefully you will see that it says 'Those with him'. So what I would question here is that what does this particular phrase actually mean. Does it mean those who are physically with him? Or everyone who was accompanying him? Or is it meant in a spiritual sense?

If you look through history you will find that those 'companions' most revered by Sunnis known to have fled almost all the battles whenever Allah would test them with difficulty.

I think it is also useful to look at a good Shia tafseer of this ayah. Please refer to Pooya/Ali commentary.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

select the commentary box and then select the chapter then scroll down to ayah 29.

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Surah Fath also has this verse

[Yusufali 48:10] Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah: the Hand of Allah is over their hands: then any one who violates his oath, does so to the harm of his own soul, and any one who fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah,- Allah will soon grant him a great Reward.

To consider the Sahaba above criticism simply above 48:29 and ignoring 48:10 is not wise

The sahaba never considered themselves above criticism and used to criticize each other and eventually killed each other en masse during the civil wars. To be fair you have accept whoever was in the right and reject whoever was in the wrong

Edited by JimJam

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Surah Fath also has this verse

[Yusufali 48:10] Verily those who plight their fealty to thee do no less than plight their fealty to Allah: the Hand of Allah is over their hands: then any one who violates his oath, does so to the harm of his own soul, and any one who fulfils what he has covenanted with Allah,- Allah will soon grant him a great Reward.

To consider the Sahaba above criticism simply above 48:29 and ignoring 48:10 is not wise

The sahaba never considered themselves above criticism and used to criticize each other and eventually killed each other en masse during the civil wars. To be fair you have accept whoever was in the right and reject whoever was in the wrong

You criticize only to learn from there short comings and copy and there success.

The intention of tone of criticism should not be to ATTACK them.

For example, some of the people LOVE to criticize the some Sahabah for fact that they ran away from Uhud. Yes, you criticize to learn from that mistake in the hopes of not repeating it or a similar one, not with the intention of attacking them or defaming them.

Just because you can criticize them for their short comings (Whitch they indeed did have) for the purpose of learning to improve yourself, does not mean you can criticize with the intention of defaming them or using it against them.

This is because Allah has forgiven them, and if Allah has forgive them are you not ready to forgive them?

Edited by Glow

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