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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu bakr and Aisha

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blind hatred.

blind love

how? one was the father in law and the most beloved companion-as after all the prophet (pbuh) himself chose abu bakr (ra) to lead the salah during his illness and aisha (ra) was the most beloved wife to the prophet (pbuh) after khadijah (ra)

of course i remember hadith. although you are very selective of quoting the hadiths as youve missed out the preceeding story in the hadith. neither abu bakr (ra) nor aisha (ra) hurt fatimah (ra).

Being father in law or wife does not save one from punishment. Read quran for this proof.

Have you not seen your Sahi again that Fatima was upset with Abu Bakr for the rest of her life until her death?

Regarding Aisha, she is a plain murderer of 1000s of innocent muslims and award for that lies with Allah only and I cannot say about what punishment she will get.

why dont you go and find out who prepared the burial of fatimah (ra)? and then come back to me

Why do you not quote references which we can trust.

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not only that, but Prophet (pbuh) married into the families of his enemies, does not mean it saved the in-laws from punishment for their sins.

And the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) are warned in Qur'an of DOUBLE PUNISHMENT for (depending on the translation)

[shakir 33:30] "open indecency"

[Pickthal 33:30] "manifest lewdness"

[Yusufali 33:30] "evident unseemly conduct"

Which assuredly sunnis consider revolt against a "rightly guided caliph" to be, and certainly shias consider actions taken against a divinely appointed imam (as) to be. For if verbally cursing the actions of the first three caliphs take one outside of Islam (according to some in the sunni camp) then going into a full fledged war against the 4th sunni caliph can't carry a lesser consequence. right?

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[EDIT]

all this supported by the hadith in bukhari

Narrated Malik bin Aus:

While I was at home, the sun rose high and it got hot. Suddenly the messenger of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab came to me and said, "The chief of the believers has sent for you." So, I went along with him till I entered the place where 'Umar was sitting on a bedstead made of date-palm leaves and covered with no mattress, and he was leaning over a leather pillow. I greeted him and sat down. He said, "O Malik! Some persons of your people who have families came to me and I have ordered that a gift should be given to them, so take it and distribute it among them." I said, "O chief of the believers! I wish that you order someone else to do it." He said, "O man! Take it." While I was sitting there with him, his doorman Yarfa' came saying, "'Uthman, 'Abdur-Rahman bin 'Auf, Az-Zubair and Sad bin Abi Waqqas are asking your permission (to see you); may I admit them?" 'Umar said, "Yes", So they were admitted and they came in, greeted him, and sat down. After a while Yarfa' came again and said, "May I admit 'Ali and 'Abbas?" 'Umar said, "yes." So, they were admitted and they came in and greeted (him) and sat down. Then 'Abbas said, "O chief of the believers! Judge between me and this (i.e. 'Ali)." They had a dispute regarding the property of Bani An-Nadir which Allah had given to His Apostle as Fai. The group (i.e. 'Uthman and his companions) said, "O chief of the believers! Judge between them and relieve both of them front each other." 'Umar said, "Be patient! I beseech you by Allah by Whose Permission the Heaven and the Earth exist, do you know that Allah's Apostle said, 'Our (i.e. prophets') property will not be inherited, and whatever we leave, is Sadaqa (to be used for charity),' and Allah's Apostle meant himself (by saying "we'')?" The group said, "He said so." 'Umar then turned to 'Ali and 'Abbas and said, "I beseech you by Allah, do you know that Allah's Apostle said so?" They replied, " He said so." 'Umar then said, "So, I will talk to you about this matter. Allah bestowed on His Apostle with a special favor of something of this Fai (booty) which he gave to nobody else." 'Umar then recited the Holy Verses: "What Allah bestowed as (Fai) Booty on his Apostle (Muhammad) from them --- for this you made no expedition with either cavalry or camelry: But Allah gives power to His Apostles over whomever He will 'And Allah is able to do all things." 9:6)

'Umar added "So this property was especially given to Allah's Apostle, but, by Allah, neither did he take possession of it and leave your, nor did he favor himself with it to your exclusion, but he gave it to all of you and distributed it amongst you till this property remained out of it. Allah's Apostle used to spend the yearly expenses of his family out of this property and used to keep the rest of its revenue to be spent on Allah 's Cause. Allah 's Apostle kept on doing this during all his lifetime. I ask you by Allah do you know this?" They replies in the affirmative. 'Umar then said to 'Ali and 'Abbas. "I ask you by Allah, do you know this?" 'Umar added, "When Allah had taken His Prophet unto Him, 'Abu Bakr said, 'I am the successor of Allah's Apostle so, Abu Bakr took over that property and managed it in the same way as Allah's Apostle used to do, and Allah knows that he was true, pious and rightly-guided, and he was a follower of what was right. Then Allah took Abu Bakr unto Him and I became Abu Bakr's successor, and I kept that property in my possession for the first two years of my Caliphate, managing it in the same way as Allah's Apostle used to do and as Abu Bakr used to do, and Allah knows that I have been true, pious, rightly guided, and a follower of what is right. Now you both (i.e. 'Ah and 'Abbas) came to talk to me, bearing the same claim and presenting the same case; you, 'Abbas, came to me asking for your share from your nephew's property, and this man, i.e. 'Ali, came to me asking for his wife's share from her father's property. I told you both that Allah's Apostle said, 'Our (prophets') properties are not to be inherited, but what we leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity).' When I thought it right that I should hand over this property to you, I said to you, 'I am ready to hand over this property to you if you wish, on the condition that you would take Allah's Pledge and Convention that you would manage it in the same way as Allah's Apostle used to, and as Abu Bakr used to do, and as I have done since I was in charge of it.' So, both of you said (to me), 'Hand it over to us,' and on that condition I handed it over to you. So, I ask you by Allah, did I hand it over to them on this condition?" The group aid, "Yes." Then 'Umar faced 'Ali and Abbas saying, "I ask you by Allah, did I hand it over to you on this condition?" They said, "Yes. " He said, " Do you want now to give a different decision? By Allah, by Whose Leave both the Heaven and the Earth exist, I will never give any decision other than that (I have already given). And if you are unable to manage it, then return it to me, and I will do the job on your behalf."

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 326:

[MOD NOTE: QUOTING ANTI-SHIA WEBSITES IS NOT PROOF, AND THE FILTH HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM YOUR MESSAGE. ESPECIALLY SINCE THOSE SITES ARE NOTORIOUS FOR MISQUOTING, FABRICATING, ETC. TO SPREAD THEIR MESSAGE OF HATE AGAINST SHIAS.]

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except that Ali (as) testified on BEHALF of Bibi Fatima (as), which disproves the claim about him not helping her. And it belies the exemplary character of Bibi Fatima (as) to be angered by TRUTH. Also it is ridiculous to think that Prophet (pbuh) would not inform the ONLY person directly affected by this supposed hadith pulled from the air by Abu Bakr. And NOWHERE does hadith override Qur'an, and Bibi Fatima (as) argued from Qur'an to support her position, whereas Abu Bakr had ONLY this fabricated hadith.

Perhaps someone can comment more on the hadith Umar brought forth here. Seems contradictory to historical fact, so... but would like more detail.

And not to mention the wives of the prophet (pbuh) were given the choice of land or money, as was essentially an inheritance when the Prophet (pbuh) died, something his own daughter was denied.

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do u know why abu baker was burried next to the holy prophet? sahiha al bokhary says it was night and everyone was a sleep lol so they done (salat mayet) on him on the next day lol

read if u can read arabic

bokhari_1.jpg

31-1.jpg

Edited by Karbla2eeAlhwa
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the fact that it was under Aisha's control removes any mystery over how it happened anyway. But the importance and merit of a person is in their DEEDS (their piety and submission to Allah (SWT)) NOT where they are buried!

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(salam)

What is this superiority complex with shias?

They even say that Imams are Superior than Prophets!!

Shias cannot accept the fact that all Muslims are equal and only Allah will judge that who is superior on day of Judgment.

002.134

PICKTHAL: Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which ye earn. And ye will not be asked of what they used to do.

merit of a person is in their DEEDS (their piety and submission to Allah (SWT)) NOT where they are

Strange coming from the people who think they will be raised in Qayamat according to the proximity of burial near the grave of Imam Hussein.Hundreds of shias are waiting in iron coffin for the burial in karbala. :)

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^ More strange is that they buried the two next to the Prophet (pbuh) and a time will come when the last illuminary will take justice from them...

And the importance of Wadi us Salam which is in Najaf is stated in many authentic hadiths so please refer to them and as for people being buried near the Shrine of Al Husayn (as), again refer to the hadith which talk abt the greatness of the Imams (as). Lastly in regards to the Imams (as) being greater than other Prophets (as) use the search function when it is made avaliable. There is comprehensive proof showing how that works. And if that does not help you then wait for the reality to bite you when Al Mahdi [ajtf] returns!

And Umar:

How can you say Lady Fatima (sa) was angry with Imam Ali (as) when Imam Ali (as) backed her in the court of Abu Bakr. More to that it was Umar who rejected his testimony saying that he is of relation to Lady Fatima (sa) so then Lady Fatima (sa) turned to Salman Farsi and he provided testimony to her claim yet it was rejected. Also if you care to dig a bit more then go and read where Abu Bakr even signed the decree of giving the land back to Fatima (sa) but when Umar found out abt it he went and snatched the decree and ripped it up and said that how are you gonna fund the armies for their war against the non believers?

And if you want to read more do a search when the function is avaliable there is plenty to digest...

Edited by A follower
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And Umar:

How can you say Lady Fatima (sa) was angry with Imam Ali (as) when Imam Ali (as) backed her in the court of Abu Bakr. More to that it was Umar who rejected his testimony saying that he is of relation to Lady Fatima (sa) so then Lady Fatima (sa) turned to Salman Farsi and he provided testimony to her claim yet it was rejected. Also if you care to dig a bit more then go and read where Abu Bakr even signed the decree of giving the land back to Fatima (sa) but when Umar found out abt it he went and snatched the decree and ripped it up and said that how are you gonna fund the armies for their war against the non believers?

And if you want to read more do a search when the function is avaliable there is plenty to digest...

youve obviously not read my post properly as they it was not me saying that fatimah (ra) was angry with ali (ra) but your own shia scholars. i backed the quotes with a hadith from bukhari proving that the ahli bait agreed with abu bakr (ra) over fadak.

your obviously at odds with your own scholars

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Umar, hate to do this, but as I see you've quoted a filthy nasibi site for your "sources", they've been taken away. Get from RELIABLE sources, not anti-shia hate sites that spread lies and fitna! Btw, even according to the person on the site (kfc) it's ZAIDI IMAMS who said this... zaidis are closer to sunni than shia, and they are NOT reliable sources in the eyes of shia ithna asheri!

And needless to say the sunni source that coincide with the zaidi (sunni lite) version is not surprising, but NOT PROOF FOR MAINSTREAM SHIAS.

Edited by Aliya
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youve obviously not read my post properly as they it was not me saying that fatimah (ra) was angry with ali (ra) but your own shia scholars. i backed the quotes with a hadith from bukhari proving that the ahli bait agreed with abu bakr (ra) over fadak.

your obviously at odds with your own scholars

ROFL!! Dude maybe for you ignorance is bliss but not for all of us!

Quoting from a nasibi site which has been refuted many times on this forums. Dude find some originality dont be a parrot!

Here let me provide you with some threads to go through and find authentic sources taken from Shia scholars and not from a nasibi site

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=85102&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=85858&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=84439&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=50454&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=83284&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82961&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=77134&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=73782&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=70202&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=71249&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=18285&hl=

Knock yourself out!

And Lastly definitely whatever you do click this link and see if she was really angry with Imam Ali (as):

Was Lady Fatima (sa) really angry with Imam Ali (as) ?

Also here is a thread where there is a detailed discussion abt the burial of Imam Hasan (as):

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82035&hl=

WSalaams

Edited by A follower
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ROFL!! Dude maybe for you ignorance is bliss but not for all of us!

Quoting from a nasibi site which has been refuted many times on this forums. Dude find some originality dont be a parrot!

Here let me provide you with some threads to go through and find authentic sources taken from Shia scholars and not from a nasibi site

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=85102&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=85858&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=84439&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=50454&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=83284&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82961&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=77134&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=73782&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=70202&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=71249&hl=

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=18285&hl=

Knock yourself out!

And Lastly definitely whatever you do click this link and see if she was really angry with Imam Ali (as):

Was Lady Fatima (sa) really angry with Imam Ali (as) ?

Also here is a thread where there is a detailed discussion abt the burial of Imam Hasan (as):

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82035&hl=

WSalaams

what is a nasbi site?

how dare you accuse me of doing something and then have the nerve do that very same thing because it suits you and ive just realised that my signature has been edited- no wonder im the only sunni on this site

i swear in the name of Allah swt that all the quotes by the shia, attributed to the sunni kitaabs, that i have been able to research are lies- as i have yet to come across one such quote.

the quotes on muawiya by ibne taymiah and imam hanabl- lies

quotes on umar (ra) - lies

quotes on abu bakr by imam abu haifah- lies

lies lies lies lies

the only thing i will say is that i know there are some genuine people on this site- please do your own research on the quotes attributed the sunni scholars

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what is a nasbi site?

how dare you accuse me of doing something and then have the nerve do that very same thing because it suits you and ive just realised that my signature has been edited- no wonder im the only sunni on this site

i swear in the name of Allah swt that all the quotes by the shia, attributed to the sunni kitaabs, that i have been able to research are lies- as i have yet to come across one such quote.

the quotes on muawiya by ibne taymiah and imam hanabl- lies

quotes on umar (ra) - lies

quotes on abu bakr by imam abu haifah- lies

lies lies lies lies

the only thing i will say is that i know there are some genuine people on this site- please do your own research on the quotes attributed the sunni scholars

Peak of ignorance!!

Did you even click the links I gave you especially the one which says who Lady Fatima (sa) was really angry at?

Your above rant shows that you didnt, calm down and check the link and then lets talk

until then Ciao!

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Peak of ignorance!!

Did you even click the links I gave you especially the one which says who Lady Fatima (sa) was really angry at?

Your above rant shows that you didnt, calm down and check the link and then lets talk

until then Ciao!

of course i read them. its just a repitition of the same old garbage [EDIT]

but my post was in general terms and not related to your links

[MOD NOTE: EDITED TO REMOVE VIOLATION OF RULE 6) Policies or actions by the ShiaChat team should not be discussed and made into a public debate, unless specified by a moderator/admin. If anyone is unhappy with the actions taken by the ShiaChat team feel free to contact the moderators and reasons will be given to them. Discussions of ShiaChats internal affairs in a public manner causes more confusion and therefore will not be allowed unless initiated by the ShiaChat team. Additionally, topics closed by moderators shall not be re-opened by members in any form or way.]

Edited by Aliya
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its only because im not happy that my signature has been edited without consultation

The admins and mods of this board don't need to consult you if they take corrective action for breaking a key rule.

Edited by UMG
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of course i read them. its just a repitition of the same old garbage- im sorry to use such terms-its only because im not happy that my signature has been edited without consultation and my post is apparently from an anti shia website. l

but my post was in general terms and not related to your links

Had you read the links you would not have said they are repitition of old garbage.

Oh well guess its your choice @)

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the sahih hadith are garbage to him if he doesn't like what they say. He says they're all shia distortions, even when we post them word for word from SUNNI sites (not taken from anti- sites like he did). And again for the record, the 'sources' he had sited were from (even the poster on kfc admitted) were from ZAIDI sources. Zaidis may fall under the shia umbrella ACCORDING TO NON-SHIAS, but they are sunni in almost every sense of the term, and ARE NOT PROOF FOR MAINSTREAM SHIAS.

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name='A follower' date='Oct 26 2006, 10:16 AM' post='1249354']

And the importance of Wadi us Salam which is in Najaf is stated in many authentic hadiths so please refer to them and as for people being buried near the Shrine of Al Husayn (as), again refer to the hadith which talk abt the greatness of the Imams (as).

So consider the greatness of people buried near the greatest Imam,Masoom and the last Prophet (pbuh)

But please do quote a few authentic(the one you will not later deny)from the kitab ul Arbaen about the importance of being buried near Imam Hussein.And please refrain from quoting from bihar ul anwar which is not deemed authentic even by shias

Lastly in regards to the Imams (as) being greater than other Prophets (as) use the search function when it is made avaliable. There is comprehensive proof showing how that works. And if that does not help you then wait for the reality to bite you when Al Mahdi [ajtf] returns!

These topics are discussed a thousand time before this.Maybe we should just search for answers in shiachat archive instead of trying to get answers to useless polls.

Of course,IF there will be a appearance of the invisible Imam(I don't know why shia say that he will return when they believe he is present now)everything will be clear.But I think when even two shia countries cannot produce 313 true shias,the chances of his appearance are pretty slim.

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^ ROFL I think you need a bite from reality

Two Shia countries? Dude take a consensus from the world and see where Shias do not exist

Also 313 will not merely come from Shia countries they will be chosen due to their piety, loyalty and intellect from all over the world. As for the invisible Imam care to tell me then wht makes you think he is not existing now? When clearly the hadith of the Prophet (pbuh) stated that there will be 12 successors and the return of the last successor will happen even if the day of qiyama is upon us Allah will delay the qiyama for the zuhoor of the Imam [ajtf].

Inshallah I will post the hadiths which shows the greatness of being buried near to the Shrine of Al Husayn (as) tomorrow. Ok if you say that consider the greatness of being buried near the last Prophet (pbuh) then please tell me as to why Al Hasan (as) was denied this honour by your so called followers of Islam ?

And yes do a research abt why Imams are greater than Prophets you will find ample and detailed answer to your questions...

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name='A follower' date='Oct 26 2006, 08:16 PM' post='1249853']

^

ROFL I think you need a bite from reality

Reality is about something real not something that you only believe to be true and follow blindly.

Two Shia countries? Dude take a consensus from the world and see where Shias do not exist

then it is even more humiliating that Imam mehdi cannot trust that even 313 will rise for his cause from such huge amount of followers.lol

When clearly the hadith of the Prophet (pbuh) stated that there will be 12 successors and the return of the last successor will happen even if the day of qiyama is upon us Allah will delay the qiyama for the zuhoor of the Imam [ajtf].

You can believe in green martians for what I care but don't try to impose your belief on others by citing zaif hadeeth from Tirmizi.

But coming of Mehdi is not possible this year.

In Sheikh Tusi's 'Ghaybat', Abu Baseer quoted Imam Ja'fer As-Sadiq (A.S.) as saying

"The call in the name of QAIM (i.e. Imam Al Mahdi (a.s.) ) will be made in the night of the 23rd Ramadhan and he will make his appearance on the day of Ashura, the day of Imam Hussain's (a.s.) martyrdom".

I think even if he exists his coming will be after many centuries because!

It is reported in Qayamat-e-Sughra citing “Oqdatud-Durr” that Hazrat Amir(a.s) has said that the Mahdi will not appear until one-third of the world population will die by being killed and one-third will die as a result of epidemics.

Ok if you say that consider the greatness of being buried near the last Prophet (pbuh) then please tell me as to why Al Hasan (as) was denied this honour by your so called followers of Islam ?

You tell me!As you believe in the theory of grave positioning in Qayamah.What will happen to those who are buried just next to Prophet?Direct paradise for them.Although you can doubt about those buried in far off countries from Medinah.

Edited by Reality bites
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there is also a question....

u have a love with the Lady Ayesha and his father

y not u have a love with his real son Hazrat Mohammad bin abu bakar

although he was also the son of caliph and btother of um-ul-momineen..

but i never heard a single word from any sunni upon his brutal killing by the muawiyah??

and in the same way ubaid ullah bin abubaker refused to join the army of ayeshaa in jang e jumal and He was also the opponent of the muawiyah

Y sunnis keep silent on these Brothers

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then it is even more humiliating that Imam mehdi cannot trust that even 313 will rise for his cause from such huge amount of followers.lol

You can believe in green martians for what I care but don't try to impose your belief on others by citing zaif hadeeth from Tirmizi.

But coming of Mehdi is not possible this year.

In Sheikh Tusi's 'Ghaybat', Abu Baseer quoted Imam Ja'fer As-Sadiq (A.S.) as saying

"The call in the name of QAIM (i.e. Imam Al Mahdi (a.s.) ) will be made in the night of the 23rd Ramadhan and he will make his appearance on the day of Ashura, the day of Imam Hussain's (a.s.) martyrdom".

I think even if he exists his coming will be after many centuries because!

It is reported in Qayamat-e-Sughra citing “Oqdatud-Durr” that Hazrat Amir(a.s) has said that the Mahdi will not appear until one-third of the world population will die by being killed and one-third will die as a result of epidemics.

You tell me!As you believe in the theory of grave positioning in Qayamah.What will happen to those who are buried just next to Prophet?Direct paradise for them.Although you can doubt about those buried in far off countries from Medinah.

Pray do tell how is that humiliating? Imam Al Mahdi [ajtf] army will have 313 leaders which will come from every part of the world. That is not his army that is just the leaders of his army secondly for his army people will come from all over the world to make up the army so where is the humiliation in that? :mellow: Also please do tell how did prove the isnad of the hadeeth from Tirmizi? Are you a master in Ilm-e-Rijal?

Also my friend you seem to think that every single sign related abt his return has to happen for him to return Well guess what? thts not the case. His return can be tomorrow for all we know. The decree of Allah does not require for the signs to happen. Remember in Surah Yaseen He says ' is only to say to it: Be, so it is'. And if you wish to know more abt the signs of his coming then take a trip down to the Imam Mahdi (as) forum there are plenty of threads which highlight how the signs work and what is the philosophy.

Where did I claim that those buried next to the Prophet or the Imams [as] will have direct paradise? :huh: Seems like you assume too much.. Snap to reality son you dream alot.

Here is an extract from the book Manazile Akherah written by Shaykh Abbas Qummi in which he has copied the following incident from the book of Allama Majliasi called Tohfatuz Zaereen:

Allama Majliasi quotes in his 'Tohfatuz Zaereen' from 'Irshadul Quloob' and 'Farhatul Uzza' that a virtuous man from Kufa relates that, " Once on a rainy night I was seated in the Masjid of Kufa when some people entered the Mosque from the door near the Shrine of Muslim bin Aqeel carrying a bier with them. They kept the bier on a mound. One of the persons accompanying the funeral felt asleep. He dreamt that two persons came near the bier, and one said to the other that 'I will settle his account fast before he is taken to Najaf, because then I will not be able to go near him'. The person got up from his dream and narrated it to others who understood the whole situation ( that the two were Munkir and Nakeer who had come to question the dead man), and lifted the bier and proceeded towards Najaf to save the dead man from chastisement and the questioning"

Another incident from the same book taken from another book called 'Jillul Mateen':

"It is written in 'Jillul Mateen' that Meer Muinuddin Ashraf who was one of the virtuous attendents of the Shrine of Imam Al Ridha (as) says that. " Once I dreamt that I was in the shrine of Imam Al Ridha (as) and was coming out to preform wudhu. When I came near the mound of Ameer Ali Sher, I saw a group of people entering the shrine. An eminent personality was leading them, and they all carried spades in their hands As soon as they entered the shrine, the eminent personality pointed towards a particular grave and said: 'Dig out the wretched fellow from his grave'. I asked one of those men as to who the eminent personality was and he replied that it was the Commander of Faithful Imam Ali (as). Suddenly I saw that Imam Al Ridha (as) came out of his shrine and greeted Imam Ali (as) and said: 'O Respected Grandfater! I request you, and haev faith, that you will forgive this person on my behalf who lies buried here under the shelter of my shrine'. Amirul Momeneen (as) answered, ' O Dear Son! Do you know that he was a mischief creator, an adulteror and a drunkard?' Imam (as) replied. ' I do know but when his last moment neared he willed to be buried under the shelter of my shrine so I request you to forgive him on my behalf'. Imam Ali (as) forgave him and left. I woke up from my sleep and narrated the dream to the other attendents. We all went to that place which I had seen in my dream and found a newly constructed grave, whose mud was scattered. After inquiry we learnt that a turkish man who had died was buried there the day before?."

And if these are not enough than I shall post even more after researching inshallah

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Umar, the hadith you quoted are from ZAIDIS which are basically sunnis, they are STILL NOT PROOF FOR SHIA ITHNA ASHERIS (MAINSTREAM SHIAS)

Sis. Aliya,

I think this is the 15th time you've said that to umar khan. Does he not get it?

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clearly not, since he still goes on how they are alleged proofs that got deleted. Yet, he can deny even the most respected sunni scholars and collections as frauds and fabrications, based on HIS OWN OPINION, but according to him we shias are not allowed to reject NON-shia sources (and sorry, Zaidis are NOT SHIAS) on FACTUAL basis.

Umar, according to the source at kfc, those quotes were from ZAIDI books. But it's even more pointless and less proof to continuously bring SUNNI sources as if they are proof for shias... if this continues I will give you another official warning, which I have been resisting doing, even though you've repeatedly violated rules since this forum reopened.

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Umar, on kfc, the person that posted the same source for at least one of the "hadith" you quoted, stated it was from a zaidi book. and since they (as wrong as they are in their ideology) seem to know more than you on the subject, I trust their word about it more than I trust yours.

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because Zaidis are pretty much like sunnis, in fact they are as close as you can get to being sunni without being classified under the umbrella of sunni (not surprising their hadith would pretty much mimic the hadith of sunnis). In fact, wikipedia states that they are (in terms of fiqh) very close to hanafi with "elements" from the jafari fiqh. and this link provides a short overview of zaidi beliefs, etc http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/shia/zaydi.html as you can see the very first sentence states:

Zaydiyyah is a Shi'ite school of law which, of all the groups in Shi'a, is closest to the Sunni tradition

So no wonder you would quote their sources, be unable to differentiate themfrom sunni sources, and still not fathom how they are NOT PROOF FOR SHIA ITHNA ASHERIS!

Edited by Aliya
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