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In the Name of God بسم الله

Just a question to christians

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(salam)

I have just a small question to ask. Now, if I were to hypothetically ask a Christian the question, "If God had died for all our sins, and will forgive us for them, then can't we do whatever we want and we'd be forgiven?" The Christian would obviously say something like "No, we would have to still have to dedicate our actions to God with our love for Him" I am just wondering, with an answer like that, then what difference does it make if God made the sacrifice or not? I mean, God is the all-Forgiving and the all-Merciful anyway, so why does He have to kill Himself to forgive people? Why does the all-Independent have to rely on a LIFE in the first place? Wouldn't the fact that the sacrifice happen just make believers do all the same things taught in judaism, except also have to believe that the sacrifice occurred, which had no effect (since we still have to perform for God)?

Sorry, that wasn't one question... oh well.

Edited by Asad Ali
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(salam)

I have just a small question to ask. Now, if I were to hypothetically ask a Christian the question, "If God had died for all our sins, and will forgive us for them, then can't we do whatever we want and we'd be forgiven?" The Christian would obviously say something like "No, we would have to still have to dedicate our actions to God with our love for Him" I am just wondering, with an answer like that, then what difference does it make if God made the sacrifice or not? I mean, God is the all-Forgiving and the all-Merciful and the all-Loving anyway, so why does He have to kill Himself to forgive people? Why does the all-Independent have to rely on a LIFE in the first place? Wouldn't the fact that the sacrifice happen just make believers do all the same things taught in judaism, except also have to believe that the sacrifice occurred, which had no effect (since we still have to perform for God)?

Sorry, that wasn't one question... oh well.

I can't speak for all Christians but I believe it goes something like this. Before Jesus, man was judged by the Ten Commandments of Moses. This was known as the "Old Covenant" (Do as I say and be a light to others and you will have your reward). The wages for breaking them was Death. There's nothing in the Torah that says differently to my knowledge (Although Jews believe there is forgiveness for sin, I don't know why.).

Unlike Muslims, Christians don't believe there were people free of sin. Sooner or later, everyone stubs their toe. If so, the gates of Heaven were closed to us all. No sinners allowed.

The only way to get around that was for God to send Jesus. Jesus obeyed the Ten Commandments, thereby fullfilling the law. As the "first" and "only one" to do so, his reward from God was to pass judgment on the rest of us. Jesus was given the power to forgive sin and did so (The story of the paraplegic.).

Since the power to forgive sin exists today when it didn't before, that is called the "New Covenant" (where sin can be forgiven) and the Old Covenant is no more.

Now Jesus had to die or this wouldn't work. The proof that Jesus was free of sin was the Resurrection. If he hadn't been sinnless, he'd have been left in his tomb like everybody else. So, in order to shown sinless (i.e. that the Law of Moses was fullfilled), Jesus had to die. No death=No resurrection=No New Covenant.

Because Muslims don't believe Jesus died but was raised directly to Heaven then there was no resurrection and no "New Covenant". We still live under the Law of Moses.

Who is right? Well! We both have a problem. We Christians don't have a single witness to the resurrection (In spite of claims to the contrary.). You Muslims don't have a single witness to Jesus being raised directly to heaven.

The closest the Christians can come to the resurrection is the crucifixion followed by an empty tomb. To this, there are witnesses. Muslims believe these witnesses were deceived by God.

If I have it right, can you explain why God deceived us Christians?

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(salam)

I have just a small question to ask. Now, if I were to hypothetically ask a Christian the question, "If God had died for all our sins, and will forgive us for them, then can't we do whatever we want and we'd be forgiven?"

The Christian would obviously say something like "No, we would have to still have to dedicate our actions to God with our love for Him" I am just wondering, with an answer like that, then what difference does it make if God made the sacrifice or not? I mean, God is the all-Forgiving and the all-Merciful and the all-Loving anyway, so why does He have to kill Himself to forgive people? Why does the all-Independent have to rely on a LIFE in the first place? Wouldn't the fact that the sacrifice happen just make believers do all the same things taught in judaism, except also have to believe that the sacrifice occurred, which had no effect (since we still have to perform for God)?

Sorry, that wasn't one question... oh well.

I don't understand you hole question but I answer what I can. the reason why God need a sacrifice of a perfect human life is so that he can satisfy his justices. yes God is merciful and loving but he is also just. the price of sin is death . so when Jesus died he paid that price for our sins and set us free. lest say you a really good person and you sin 3 times ever day, and you lived 80 years. that's 87360 times you broke God law. or lets just say you sin just once every day that's 29120 that you've broken the law. what are you going to say to God when he judges you? you have to do that many good works just to make it even. and if you tough it couldn't get worse James say: James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Wouldn't the fact that the sacrifice happen just make believers do all the same things taught in judaism, except also have to believe that the sacrifice occurred, which had no effect (since we still have to perform for God)?

? :huh:

not sure what your asking.

hope this helps

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I have just a small question to ask. Now, if I were to hypothetically ask a Christian the question, "If God had died for all our sins, and will forgive us for them, then can't we do whatever we want and we'd be forgiven?" The Christian would obviously say something like "No, we would have to still have to dedicate our actions to God with our love for Him" I am just wondering, with an answer like that, then what difference does it make if God made the sacrifice or not? I mean, God is the all-Forgiving and the all-Merciful and the all-Loving anyway, so why does He have to kill Himself to forgive people? Why does the all-Independent have to rely on a LIFE in the first place? Wouldn't the fact that the sacrifice happen just make believers do all the same things taught in judaism, except also have to believe that the sacrifice occurred, which had no effect (since we still have to perform for God)?

Hi.

Good question. First, God didn't die, the incarnation of God died. Can God die? If God dies he isn't God. ;)

In answer to your others, God DIDNT have to die. Man is a sinner and man deserved judgement, the JUST thing for God to do is to judge all man according to his evil works the scriptures say:

"If they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you are angry with them and give them to an enemy, so that they are carried away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near," 1 Kings 8:46

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5

"Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you." Psalm 143:2

23 Can the Ethiopian [a] change his skin

or the leopard its spots?

Neither can you do good

who are accustomed to doing evil. Jeremiah 13:23

Romans 3:23

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

ALL have been declared sinners, therefore all deserve righteous judgement. God would do the proper thing in sending all to hell. B/c He is just, judgement should be given.

However; God isn't only just but merciful his merciful act is shown in his grace.

Despite what many Muslims say: the Islamic God isn't gracious.

Grace is an unmerrited favor, it is something that none has earned or that isn't based on pre-judgement of deeds,or what anyone has done.

Grace is something that is a gift, it is a favor to those whom he has chosen. Nothing more. Nothing less.

God has shown grace to those he has chosen those he has, therfore his mercy has played out w/those he considers his elect.

God decided to incarnate himself into a man and die b/c he wanted to show mercy not b/c he had to.

God doens't have to do anything that man asks of him, he is sovereign. God is not responsible to man, man is responsible to God.

Edited by InHisLove
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I can't speak for all Christians but I believe it goes something like this. Before Jesus, man was judged by the Ten Commandments of Moses. This was known as the "Old Covenant" (Do as I say and be a light to others and you will have your reward). The wages for breaking them was Death. There's nothing in the Torah that says differently to my knowledge (Although Jews believe there is forgiveness for sin, I don't know why.).

Unlike Muslims, Christians don't believe there were people free of sin. Sooner or later, everyone stubs their toe. If so, the gates of Heaven were closed to us all. No sinners allowed.

The only way to get around that was for God to send Jesus. Jesus obeyed the Ten Commandments, thereby fullfilling the law. As the "first" and "only one" to do so, his reward from God was to pass judgment on the rest of us. Jesus was given the power to forgive sin and did so (The story of the paraplegic.).

Since the power to forgive sin exists today when it didn't before, that is called the "New Covenant" (where sin can be forgiven) and the Old Covenant is no more.

Now Jesus had to die or this wouldn't work. The proof that Jesus was free of sin was the Resurrection. If he hadn't been sinnless, he'd have been left in his tomb like everybody else. So, in order to shown sinless (i.e. that the Law of Moses was fullfilled), Jesus had to die. No death=No resurrection=No New Covenant.

Because Muslims don't believe Jesus died but was raised directly to Heaven then there was no resurrection and no "New Covenant". We still live under the Law of Moses.

Who is right? Well! We both have a problem. We Christians don't have a single witness to the resurrection (In spite of claims to the contrary.). You Muslims don't have a single witness to Jesus being raised directly to heaven.

The closest the Christians can come to the resurrection is the crucifixion followed by an empty tomb. To this, there are witnesses. Muslims believe these witnesses were deceived by God.

If I have it right, can you explain why God deceived us Christians?

Before Jesus the only way to be forgiven was through sacrafice and to be blessed by a teacher of God. That is why we refer to Jesus as the blood of the lamb, our sacrafice.

As far as witnesses for His resurrection, thats were the Gospel comes in John, Luke, mark, and matthew state all his deciples witnessed Jesus walking about after the crusifixition in many scripturs.

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(salam)

Ah, okay, thank you. Interesting answers.

I had come to a realization that is better to ask questions to strengthen one another's faith, rather than try to prove each other wrong. Creating doubts will cause a person to find the answers and (inshaAllah, God Willing) become closer to God that way. If there are no doubts created, it's always good to review foundations of your faith.

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Before Jesus the only way to be forgiven was through sacrafice

That is correct. I had forgotten that. The people also put their sins on the head of a goat and sent it away.

As far as witnesses for His resurrection, thats were the Gospel comes in John, Luke, mark, and matthew state all his deciples witnessed Jesus walking about after the crusifixition in many scripturs.

The stories all contradict each other, Thus, there is no known witness.

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That is correct. I had forgotten that. The people also put their sins on the head of a goat and sent it away.

The stories all contradict each other, Thus, there is no known witness.

Agree to disagree, but we know where that topic will lead and we are already off topic.

Bless!

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