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In the Name of God بسم الله

question for ahlul sunnah!

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thulfikar

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Is an other sunni on board who consider ibin taymiyya as a respected `alim of ahlul sunnah?

Im not really sunni but i thought it would help to get a response from the others lol

Infact im interested in the SUNNIS answer to this question too...so please RESPOND!! YES or NO?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

do you consider ibin taymiyya as a respected `alim of ahlul sunnah????

Nawasib run like chickens ;)

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YA AMIRUL MU`MINYN

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He deviated from the path of the ahlus sunnah.

His literal interpretations of Allah (azza wa jal) and his stance against Sayyidna Ali (ra) were corrupt.

There are certain refrences that claim he repented, but Allahu alam.

We do not consider him as our scholar.

Wsalaam wr wb

Edited by Aashiq e Rasul
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Subhan Allah, prove what you say...

do u read Arabic ? I'll send you his books and you judge.

Yes i read arabic...thank you but no need to send me his book you can find his books online.

Now to menhaj assunah,ibin taymiyya say in his books menhaj assuunnah;

æ áã íßä ßÐáß Úáí ÝÇä ßËíÑÇ ãä ÇáÕÍÇÈÉ æ ÇáÊÇÈÚíä ßÇäæÇ íÈÛÖæäå æ íÓÈæäå æ íÞÇÊáæäå

ãäåÇÌ ÇáÓäÉ Ì 7 Õ 137 ¡ 138

"...because KATHIRAN (many) from the sahaba and at-tabi3iyn hated,cursed and fighted against him(ali as.)"

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taimiya...365&id=3441

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/Books/taimiya...365&id=3442

We thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and at-tabi3iyn were

hypocrites according to the saying of rasulallah (sa.)

"only a mu`min will love Ali(as.) and he who hates him is a hypocrite

SAHIH MUSLIM

ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÈßÑ Èä ÃÈí ÔíÈÉ. ÍÏËäÇ æßíÚ æÃÈæ ãÚÇæíÉ¡ Úä ÇáÃÚãÔ. Í æÍÏËäÇ íÍíì Èä íÍíì (æÇááÝÙ áå) ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÃÈæ ãÚÇæíÉ¡ Úä ÇáÃÚãÔ¡ Úä ÚÏí Èä ËÇÈÊ¡ Úä ÒÑ¡ ÞÇá: ÞÇá Úáí :

æÇáÐí ÝáÞ ÇáÍÈÉ æÈÑà ÇáäÓãÉ! Åäå áÚåÏ ÇáäÈí ÇáÃãí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã Åáì Ãä áÇ íÍÈäí ÅáÇ ãÄãä ¡ æáÇ íÈÛÖäí ÅáÇ ãäÇÝÞ ) Ü ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã Ì 1

Rasulallah (sa.) said that he who hates Ali (as.) is hypocrite,and ibin taymiyya tells us in his minhaj that KATHIRAN (many) from the sahaba AND tabi3iyn hated and cursed Ali(a.s)

So when you say why we curse those "sahaba" , i ask you is it haram to curse the hypocrite and those who were cursed by Allah???

Mustadrak al-hakim

and rasulallah (sa.) said who hates ali hated me and he who loves ali loves me!

IN A SAHIH HADITH ãÓÊÏÑß ÇáÍÇßã Ì 3 Í 4668

We again thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn hated rasulallah(sa.)

Mustadrak al-hakim

Rasulallah (sa.) said;

"he who curses Ali(as.) cursed me"

ãÓÊÏÑß ÇáÍÇßã Ì 3 Í 4615 Hadith is Sahih

We again thank ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn cursed

Rasulallah!

Edited by thulfikar
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I didn't want to send you the books, I was guna send to who accused Ibn Taymiyyah if not being a Sunni.

2- Imam Ali as.gif was hated by a lot of Sahaba and Tabe'en. He was even fought and insulted by them. Minhaj Al Sunnah, book 7, page 138

*--We believe that there was wars at that time of Ali, war is bigger than hatred. In this point, the author was replying to a Shia who said that Ayat al Walayah Ma7soora/kept for Ali, may Allah be pleased with him. So here, he explains that this did happen. Al Hajaj for example, is one of the taba'en who hated the Imam and order people to curse him in Iraq. Others used to claim that Ali killed their fathers and grandfathers and this is not true. I agree that a lot of At Taba'een between the time of Muawiyah and Omar ibn Abdel Aziz hated Ali, but I disagree with the author when he says a lot of As Sahaba hated the Imam.

this is from this thread:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88353

And yes there were people who hated Ali, Like Al Hajaj from the Tabe'een and also from the companions like Bareedah , who said to the Messenger of Allah "Yes" when the Prophet asked him if he hates Ali. But, from our interpertion, Abu Bakr and Omar didn't hate Ali and Ali didn't hate them.

Subhan Allah, I knew that one of your claims would be in one of those points, thats y i replied directly to u, maybe because in your books to "answer" Sunnis are all copying from each other, and God knows best.

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Why was Ibn Taimiyyah imprisoned for many years??

Is it not true that it were leading Sunni scholars who turned against Ibn Taimiyyiah and issued a verdict for him to be arrested for publishing material that opposed tawheed??

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I didn't want to send you the books, I was guna send to who accused Ibn Taymiyyah if not being a Sunni.

2- Imam Ali as.gif was hated by a lot of Sahaba and Tabe'en. He was even fought and insulted by them. Minhaj Al Sunnah, book 7, page 138

*--We believe that there was wars at that time of Ali, war is bigger than hatred. In this point, the author was replying to a Shia who said that Ayat al Walayah Ma7soora/kept for Ali, may Allah be pleased with him. So here, he explains that this did happen. Al Hajaj for example, is one of the taba'en who hated the Imam and order people to curse him in Iraq. Others used to claim that Ali killed their fathers and grandfathers and this is not true. I agree that a lot of At Taba'een between the time of Muawiyah and Omar ibn Abdel Aziz hated Ali, but I disagree with the author when he says a lot of As Sahaba hated the Imam.

this is from this thread:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88353

And yes there were people who hated Ali, Like Al Hajaj from the Tabe'een and also from the companions like Bareedah , who said to the Messenger of Allah "Yes" when the Prophet asked him if he hates Ali. But, from our interpertion, Abu Bakr and Omar didn't hate Ali and Ali didn't hate them.

Subhan Allah, I knew that one of your claims would be in one of those points, thats y i replied directly to u, maybe because in your books to "answer" Sunnis are all copying from each other, and God knows best.

(bismillah)

(salam)

thats not a fact,fact is that ibin taymiyya explains in his book that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn hates,cursed and fighted imam Ali (a.s.) in contrast to abu bakr and omar.

so what is your judgement to those sahaba and tabi3iyn who cursed ,hated and fighted him???

lol al hajaj and bureyda are only 2 from the "many" who hated , cursed and fighted imam ali(a.s.).

hmm do you disagree with your master???

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Why was Ibn Taimiyyah imprisoned for many years??

Is it not true that it were leading Sunni scholars who turned against Ibn Taimiyyiah and issued a verdict for him to be arrested for publishing material that opposed tawheed??

he was improsined by the sufis many times such as Ali Bakri, the sunni scholars asked him to be arrested, then when they read his book they agreed with him and released him, the sunni government then arrested him for not releasing a fatwa to opress people. He was also arrested for saying that 3 divorce = to 1.

And I ask every just shia to not judge Ibn Taymiyyah with what non sunni scholars says, if you want to know the person, then read his books, logically, by removing the hatred from your heart and openning your mind for him don't try to critisize him, but also think carefully of what he say and you will know the truth In sha' Allah.

The books I recomand you read is

1- Al Aqeedah Al Wasatiyah, the balanced creed.

2- Ash-Shahadah Az Zakiya be Thnaa' Al Aemamah 3la ibn taymiyyah, the pure witness of the Imams in praising ibn taymiyyah. a book that says what the biggest sunnis Imams like Ath Thahabi, Ibn Hajr say about Ibn Taymiyyah.

3- Jalaa' Al Aynayn fee Moha7kamat Al Ahmadyn. The clear eyes in judging the two Ahmeds.

This is a book written by an Iraqi from the family of Hashim, he is an Alawi, Khayr Ad Deen Noman Al Aloosi. He compares the point of view of ibn taymiyyah and those who doesnt agree with him. This man proved that many of what has been said about ibn taymiyyah is wrong, but referencing what ibn taymiyyah said his 18 books and his messages.

Was Salam Alykom.

lol al hajaj and bureyda are only 2 from the "many" who hated , cursed and fighted imam ali(a.s.).

hmm do you disagree with your master???

many hated Ali don't you know how many armies fought against him ?

there was curses and insults when the two armies met.

Its non of ur business if i disagree or not with my Imam, for I have seen your behavior that doesn't encourge a debate.

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Was Salam Alykom.

many hated Ali don't you know how many armies fought against him ?

there was curses and insults when the two armies met.

Its non of ur business if i disagree or not with my Imam, for I have seen your behavior that doesn't encourge a debate.

yes we know that many of the sahaba and tabi3iyn hated imam Ali (a.s.) but you missed to

explain to us what is your judgment to this sahaba???

Are those who cursed and hated imam Ali (a.s.) hypocrites??? yes or no,simple question?

va alaykum assalam

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And I ask every just shia to not judge Ibn Taymiyyah with what non sunni scholars says, if you want to know the person, then read his books, logically, by removing the hatred from your heart and openning your mind for him don't try to critisize him, but also think carefully of what he say and you will know the truth In sha' Allah.

Are you saying ALL SUNNI SCHOLARS view Ibn Taimiyyah as a great Alim and never suggest otherwise??

When Sunni and Salafies find insignificant errors in writing from Shia scholars, which usually are MISINTERPRETATIONS they quickly judge the individuals to be Hypocrites and Ignorants with labels such as Rafidah, Kafir, etc etc...without any real idea of what such statements are implying.

Whereas in the case of Ibn Taimiyah his errors are proved both by sunnis and shias TO BE OFFICIAL!! His heretic remarks and beliefs are very common and still exist today especially amongst the Salafies which are remarkably opposed by the common learned Sunnis or should I call them Orthodox sunnis by political mantra.

If your going to ask for references and etc...it will only clarify that you yourself have not queried on such issues with reasonable logic...and then ofcourse I will have to do the hard work to fork out such sources from his own works.

Edited by wazz
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Of course we thank Ibin taymiyya for showing us that many of the Sahaba and tabi3iyn hated and cursed Imam Ali(a.s.)

That means according to the saying of Rasulallah (sa.) that a large part of the sahaba and tabi3iyn are hypocrites and enemy of Allah!

áÇ íÍÈäí ÅáÇ ãÄãä ¡ æáÇ íÈÛÖäí ÅáÇ ãäÇÝÞ Ü ÕÍíÍ ãÓáã Ì 1

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And yes there were people who hated Ali, Like Al Hajaj from the Tabe'een and also from the companions like Bareedah , who said to the Messenger of Allah "Yes" when the Prophet asked him if he hates

Can you please elaborate on that incident?

Edited by BOY-NICE
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he was improsined by the sufis many times such as Ali Bakri, the sunni scholars asked him to be arrested, then when they read his book they agreed with him and released him, the sunni government then arrested him for not releasing a fatwa to opress people. He was also arrested for saying that 3 divorce = to 1.

Thats an extremely lame attempt to defend Ibn Taimiyyah. What you failed to mention was that Ibn Taimiyah was not only imprisoned by Sufi factions but also ordinary Sunnis. Furthermore what would be nice is if you also added that it was not state intervention that caused his imprisonment, but it was scholarly judicial judgements based on Islamic Law and to serve the general public by eradicating heresy.

Furthermore you stated that Ibn Taimiyyah was released after the scholars read his books. What a horrible assumption or blatant lie

The whole reason behind imprisoning Taimiyyah was his authorship of books. Initially the general muslim assemblies had pushed Taimiyah out of the main circles at work in the islamic institutions in local towns and cities due to his speeches and ill-mannered arrogance which contained elements of intolerance as well as heresy and ofcourse like we all know it certain fruits of factional strife. Taimiyyah was warned many times by surrounding religious figures, whether sufi, sunni, etc. After much push-to-the-shove, Taimiyyah began publishing written work. This is when the trials commenced which ultimately landed him in prison. And such written work were proofs of his sins.

Taimiyyah was offered a pardon on several occasions to deny his claims in his books which were out of the fold of islam. At first he persisted and later he accepted the condition and was released by the mercy of such scholars. Did Taimiyah stop? NOPE...He started again publishing material which opposed the Quran and Sunnah as well as the Sharia Law and again got banged up in prison.

So come on stop barrying mate!

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