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In the Name of God بسم الله

Questions from a Sunni

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(salam)

Wa 3laikassalaam

I'm a Sunni Muslim (Salafi) convert and after reading your fiqh and opinions about the history around the sahaba and Imam 'Ali (as), I have to say I agree almost completely. It's remarkable how little our Imams and Ustadhs taught us on Islamic history and how they simply dismiss the Shia.

Yea.. can't blame them though :)

I have searched a lot on the net, but I've yet to find a good book on your aqeedah. If anyone has any links it would be beneficial to share them. I'm still confused about the twelve Imams and exactly what position they have, ie are they infallable and if they are, wouldn't that make them into Prophets?(which obvioulsy can't be the case).

Odd.. first time I heard a salafi say that the Prophets(as) were infallible.. its refreshing :)

Briefly.. a prophet introduces religion to a group of people and an imam protects it by reminding the people of the right principles.. basically not letting the people deviate.

I've read a great deal about your concepts of justice. It's my understanding that you don't believe that evil comes from Allah. My question is: if Allah didn't create evil, then where does it come from? Also, what are we supposed to believe when injustice previals.

Evil is an absence of good.. just like darkness is an absence of light.

Injustice might prevail in this world.. but the punishment for it is waiting for the unjust in the next.

What is the position of the Shia on Qadr? Isn't what happened to Imam 'Ali (as) part of Allah's divine plan?

It can be changed... I am not sure how common is the story of Hadrat Musa(as) and the begger who sliced off his flesh to fill up a bowl when Allah(swt) asked him to.

Yes it was... but the culprits are still to be blamed because they could have changed but chose to be selfish in their actions.. they were hypocrites.. and Allah(swt) only make the arrogant dwell in hypocrisy so that they can be punished for their arrogance

Sorry for my random questions ikhwaan.

One last question, is there anyway I can buy a turbah online?

Ofcourse.. try ebay :)... wassalaamun alaikum

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(bismillah)

(salam)

www.al-islam.org

www.al-shia.com

answering-ansar.org

www.shiasource.com for lectures

www.aimislam.com

bro where u from? if in uk, i can try sorting you out with some books to borrow or to keep,or anything else, plz pm me.

anyways these books are good:

kitab irshad (which i keep on recomending to everyone) by sheikh al mufid, this book is compilations of hadith proving the imamate of all imams, just summat u want init?

hayat al qulub volume 1-3. make sure they contain commentary of majlisi.

tafseer al mirzan (detailed tafseer of quran)

and many more...

w.salaam

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(salam)

I'm a Sunni Muslim (Salafi) convert and after reading your fiqh and opinions about the history around the sahaba and Imam 'Ali (as), I have to say I agree almost completely. It's remarkable how little our Imams and Ustadhs taught us on Islamic history and how they simply dismiss the Shia.

I have searched a lot on the net, but I've yet to find a good book on your aqeedah. If anyone has any links it would be beneficial to share them. I'm still confused about the twelve Imams and exactly what position they have, ie are they infallable and if they are, wouldn't that make them into Prophets?(which obvioulsy can't be the case).

I've read a great deal about your concepts of justice. It's my understanding that you don't believe that evil comes from Allah. My question is: if Allah didn't create evil, then where does it come from? Also, what are we supposed to believe when injustice previals.

What is the position of the Shia on Qadr? Isn't what happened to Imam 'Ali (as) part of Allah's divine plan?

Sorry for my random questions ikhwaan.

One last question, is there anyway I can buy a turbah online?

Salam, brother forgive me if I offend you in any way or impose incorrect suspisions...

You say that you are a 'sunni' muslim, but if you had not said that I would have thought you were shia...couple of reasons...

1. You did not say (ra) after mentioning the sahaba; yes, it's not necessary to say that but sunnis generally do; but you omitting it was interesting because you said (as) in stead of (ra) in reference to Ali (ra).

2. You are looking for a turbah...yet it has little to no significance to those who follow the sunni schools of thought.

I sincerely hope that you are not masquerading as a 'sunni' to create doubt.

Couple more things...

Sunnis do not believe that evil comes from Allah. Allah allows evil and injustice to take place.

It is not incumbant on the Imams and Ustadhs to teach you about the shia (they are to teach you about Islam, but some imams and ustadhs are inadequate in their efforts or even knowledge, so don't be surprised).

Once again forgive me if I accused you wrongly.

Salam

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(salam)

No problem Musafir, I'm not offended. I used (as) after metioning 'Ali (as) to show respect the Shia in this forum. I know that's what you do when you mention 'Ali (as) , so I thought it would be appropriate and respectful for me to do the same.

I was looking for a turbah because I agree with what your fiqh has to say about praying on the earth. Since reading the Shia evidences, I've kept a leaf w/me to make sajdah on, as some Shia I used go to college with did.

As a Sunni, I've been taught that all good and evil comes from Allah and I've heard this from all Sunni scholars or teachers that I've encountered.

And lastly, I wasn't trying to say that my teachers or shuyukh should have taught us about Shia doctrines, I was simply conveying the fact that they mention nothing about what happened to Hussain in Karbala.

Jazakallah Khayr,

Abu Bakr Ibrahiim

bro abu bakr ibrahim, i fear that you your becoming confused and entangled. its good that you are respecting the shia by putting (as) after ali (ra). its a shame that the shia on this forum dont show the same respect to our sahabah (ra) and some of them have stooped so low to even curse them. astaghfirullah.

the prophet (pbuh) didnt pray on the ground/mud on purpose, it was just the way it was the. towards the end of his (pbuh) life they had mats woaven out of leaves and hay.

the shias pray on clay not because its sunnah (although it isnt), tthey do so because of the martydom of hussain (ra). i recomend for you to stick with the sunni way of praying as its closest to the sunnah.

the tragedy of hussain (ra) is not of religious significance like the shia have made it out to be. it may be historically significance but not religious. i think the reason why its not mentioned that much is because its very unclear on what actually happened, who directly/indirectly martrered hussain (ra).

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actually br. Umar the Prophet (pbuh) and sahaba DID pray on earth, as it was forbidden

Hadith #799 here http://www.spubs.com/sps/sbk/

Hadith #798 here http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/bukhari/012.htm

hadith #244 here http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/bukhari/033.htm

#299 here shows that it was only in extreme cases that they would NOT pray on earth http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/bukhari/022.htm

hadith #378 here states Prophet (pbuh) prayed on Khumra (a mat made of leaves or other natural material)

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/bukhari/008.htm

more info about the shia view (and support thereof) can be found here http://al-islam.org/nutshell/files/turbah.doc

Edited by Aliya
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Also, some sunnis do use (as) after the names of Ahlul Bayt (as). I know of a few in this forum. seems one even posted "guidelines" on whom it is appropriate to us (as) after their names. And some shias do put (ra) after the names of sahaba sunnis respect, while others abstain from that, it's personal preference.

For the record,a ccording to shiachat rules (LA) is forbidden after the names of the three sunni caliphs (cursing them by name or number on the site is forbidden by shiachat rules) and putting (ra) after the names of Muawiya (LA) and Yazeed (LA) and other open enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as) is also forbidden on this site.

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bro abu bakr ibrahim, i fear that you your becoming confused and entangled. its good that you are respecting the shia by putting (as) after ali (ra). its a shame that the shia on this forum dont show the same respect to our sahabah (ra) and some of them have stooped so low to even curse them. astaghfirullah.

the prophet (pbuh) didnt pray on the ground/mud on purpose, it was just the way it was the. towards the end of his (pbuh) life they had mats woaven out of leaves and hay.

the shias pray on clay not because its sunnah (although it isnt), tthey do so because of the martydom of hussain (ra). i recomend for you to stick with the sunni way of praying as its closest to the sunnah.

the tragedy of hussain (ra) is not of religious significance like the shia have made it out to be. it may be historically significance but not religious. i think the reason why its not mentioned that much is because its very unclear on what actually happened, who directly/indirectly martrered hussain (ra).

Nice attempt but once who embraced the right path can not be diveted. Confusion is this. Confusion means one do not know to whom one should follow. Prophet (pbuh) said "O Ammar (ra) you will be martyred by a rebel group who will be calling you to hell and you will be calling them towards heaven" . Ammar was martyred by Muawvia (La'een) now confusion will be trying to follow both at the same time lolz :!!!:

Islam is not butcher's shop that the oppressor is also (ra) and the oppressed is also (ra). I do not understand.

As far as tragedy of Karbala is concerned it is a bitter truth that Yazeed was avenging his ancestors and was not muslim at all. He said "There was no Prophet (pbuh) and no Quran it was drama of Ahl ul bait (as)" But you say it is political war. No bro it was war which started and still continues. Now 11 Pakistani martyred by the followers of Yazeed (laeen) in Iraq and it continues till our twelfth imam (as) will avenge them and destroy Yazeediyat (inshallah)

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Also, some sunnis do use (as) after the names of Ahlul Bayt (as). I know of a few in this forum. seems one even posted "guidelines" on whom it is appropriate to us (as) after their names. And some shias do put (ra) after the names of sahaba sunnis respect, while others abstain from that, it's personal preference.

where?? with the exception of salman farsi (ra) i have not seen you respect the sahabah. throughout our discussion youve never put ra after abu bakr,umar or usman.

For the record,a ccording to shiachat rules (LA) is forbidden after the names of the three sunni caliphs (cursing them by name or number on the site is forbidden by shiachat rules) and putting (ra) after the names of Muawiya (LA) and Yazeed (LA) and other open enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as) is also forbidden on this site.

Edited by umar_khan
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(salam) bro AbuBakerIbraheem,

I said this in another thread, and I will repeat it here, the truth is anyone who believes in the words of the Quran, knows Allah (swt) has ordained everything in the religion and explained the details of all the commands (such as Salat, Hajj, Sawm, Zakat, and Wiliyah) by his Messenger . People who believe otherwise will have placed their faith in the jibt and taghoot instead, just as the jews did in the past taking their Rabbis are lords rather then God. Allah (swt) says to follow him and only him, and to not seek judgements from people but instead from Allah (swt).

Allah (SwT) has not given premision that the people choose. He has exposed some of the judgements of this ignorant society (read suratal anam, look at their dumb judgements and these same people who did these judgemetns sunni want us to submit to their decision), he has condemned following things with out knowledge, and has said to only follow what God revealed, and did not allow people to interpet the Quran to themselves and made the Rasool (pbuh) the interpeter, so people who wish to turn to revelation for their differences needed to come to the Messenger (pbuh) for judgement, so following Quran and Sunna is neccessary, and there is nothing then Allah (swt) commands in the Quran but the Messenger (pbuh) would have explained it to the people because God said to him (pbuh) in suratal nahl, that the book was revealed to him so he can explain to people what has been revealed to them. The Quran has condemned people who make their own judgements instead of looking towars Allah (swt), it calls such judgements the judgement of ignorance, belief in jibt and taghoot, and disbelief in Allah (swt). So their is no doubt that Allah (swt) who commanded unconditional obedience to the Ulul-Amr (as) along with his MEssenger (pbuh) would be the one who decides who are the Ulul-Amr (as) just as he decided what is 'Salat' and did not permit people to follow their own opinions on that, and explained zakat and did not let people follow their own opinion on that. It is clear that the Messenger (pbuh) would have explained it and there is no doubt to this, because it is command in the Quran. If the event of ghadeer did not occur, all those verses condemning following other then Allah (swt) would have lost their meaning, the verses about the jibt and taghoot would have lost their meaning, the verses condemning jews who don't look towards revelation for all judgements would have lost their meaning. Because the meaning implies the neccessity of Mohammad (pbuh) saying who the Ulul-Amri (as) is to everyone just as he explained the details of Salat, and Hajj. But the Quran is indeed true, and ghadeer khum is in suratal maeeda, one just has to concentrate on the verses from begining to end to see it.

Besides from this, their are numerous verses pertaining to the subject of leadership.

ws

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br. Umar, you obviously missed the latter part of the sentence about shias praising companions sunnis revere "while others abstain from that, it's personal preference" ( I personally abstain because I cannot bring myself to praise ppl I perceive to be known enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as)).

As for cursing Muawiya (LA), as stated in the rules, it is not allowed to openly praise (such as putting (ra) after names of open enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as) which Muawiya (LA) and Yazeed (LA) were, whether sunnis recognize and condemn those actions or not). We (shias) are not permitted to curse the three on this site, and you (sunnis) are not allowed to praise the tyrants such as Muawiya (LA) and Yazeed (LA) it's a compromise on both sides. IF you really wanna praise them, there are plenty of sunni/wahhabi sites where you can do so to your heart's content.

Also, you don't bring PROOF of what you claim. I brought proof where Ali (as) stated that ONLY his killer should be punished (not tortured) IF he (ALI (as)) died from his wounds. NO ONE ELSE was to be punished for this act. Now, you keep claiming Muawiya (LA) avenged Ali's death, which is only possible if he ignored the EXPLICIT orders of Imam Ali (as) on the matter (since the killer of Imam Ali (as) was imprisoned, and Muawiya (LA) was not in power and thus not in position to execute the murderer, it can only be assumed you are speaking about action taken against others, which as pointed out would be against the orders of Ali (as) on this matter.)) so bring proof, and please expound on this supposed action taken by Muawiya (LA) and against whom it was allegedly done.

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(salam)

just pointing out that , it is not specified turbah , but it is a blessing to be praying on the turbah , the prophet(pbuh) prayed on natural things ranging from leaves to plain ground ...

as some of our ulema believe that in the absence of a turbah , a leaf from a tree would do if possible to be acquired

salam

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(salam) (bismillah)

The concept of good and evil is very simple. If you have a knife it does not make you a killer, but it does not mean you cannot use it to kill. It is left for you to decide, it is not the tool which is to be blamed for an action, but rather the way it is used. To use a knife to chop vegetables is not evil while killing is.

As for the concept of al-Qadr, it very widely mis-understood, especially by many sunnis, I was a very strict sunni myself some time ago, so I know what is tought about this. I will give more information in the near future inshallah, but read through sura al balad, which is towards the end few chapters of the quran. It covers the conept of choice and a bit about al-Qadr. If you understand it; you will not have much problems is grasping a rough idea on al-Qadr. But always remember one thing, fully understand the concept of al-Qadr is outside the grasp of any of us, so don't be surprised if you get into that position.

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Salaams,

I have heard that using turba is because we are from the earth. The first sajda implicates that we are from the earth and are created by raising up. The second sajda is to say we will die and go back to the earth. And when we rise, it is to say we rise up again to Qiyamat.

(PS. Note only 2 sajdahs in any namaz is allowed)

Wasalaam

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(salam)

I'm a Sunni Muslim (Salafi) convert and after reading your fiqh and opinions about the history around the sahaba and Imam 'Ali (as), I have to say I agree almost completely. It's remarkable how little our Imams and Ustadhs taught us on Islamic history and how they simply dismiss the Shia.

(salam)

You just made my day. It is very nice to know that we have not been fighting a losing battle here. It is extremelly encouraging when a person (with your background) comes here and say what you just said.

I have bunch of links in my signature.

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