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Ilyas

Apologies from a Sunni

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(salam)

Dear brothers and sisters of the of the Ithna Ashari School. I'm a nobody and I represent a constituency of one...namely myself.

All I wanted to say, as a Sunni, is that I apologize to you all for the venomous bigotry of certain Sunni 'scholars' (like that snake in Saudi Arabia and various other bigots...eg hardline Deobandis in Indo-Pak) directed against your beliefs and practices .

I apologize to you all for the murder of your worshippers in Karachi, Lahore, Rawalpindi etc by the criminal thugs of Lashkar-Jhangvi (May Allah destroy them).

I apologize to you all for the crimes of the Salafi Jihadis (eg Zarqawi...may he burn in hell) against your worshippers and shrines in Iraq.

I salute your Scholar-Mujahids like Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah (May Allah protect and bless him forever)...through whom Allah has returned honour to ALL the Arabs (Muslim and Christian, Sunni and Shia) and Muslims (Sunni and Shia)...a man who does not soil his mouth with lies and empty boasts...a man who speaks only the truth.

I salute your heroic Mujahids of Hezbullah...who fight according to the Sunna of Allah and His Messenger (pbuh) ...who do not dishonour the word Mujahideen...who do not slaughter civilians and the innocent.

I salute your pious worshippers like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Allah protect him)...who speaks the truth without fear of censure from the West and her politicians and media.

As Allah is my witness, I will never allow a fellow Sunni to call you kafirs or munafiqs, to mock your passion for Imam Hussain (as), to mock your namaz, your azaan etc. I will always speak in your defence dear brothers and sisters.

I truly believe that Makkah, Madinah and Al Quds (our holy places under the control of Zion and her lackeys...for this Lebanon affair makes it as clear as the sky that Saudi and her scholars are the stooges of Zion)...all these will be liberated by your people.

With sincere brotherly love to you all...

a Sunni.

(bismillah)

I read your post brought me to tears

. I dont know exactly what I am Sunni or shia. from the outside im probably sunni as I follow sunni school of thought and I have sunni teachers but on the inside maybe Im shia because I love sayyiduna Ali more then the 3 caliphs and believe that Ali Fatima Hassan and Husayn (as) are the best out of al the sahabas and most loved to the prophet .I also have respect for the 3 caliphs even if I do believe it was the right of Ali (as) and would never curse them . We are all muslim whether you believe that abu bakr (ra) was the first caliph or Ali (as) was. we need to come together and be united as propagated by the great sunni scholars such as qaradawi, ramadan bouti, habib ali jifri and also the great shia leader syed khomeini .

(salam)

salla Allahu ala sayyidina Muhammad (pbuh) :wub:

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beautiful post :cry:

Inshallah, we pray for the time when all sunnis and shias will be united....

regardless of some of our differences....da shahadah is da similarity that exists btween us ..dat makes us muslims.

Allah bless you brother!! ameen!! :)

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(bismillah) & (salam)

Firstly brother Ilyas it was great to read your post it gives us hope for all muslims and how refreshing it was to read.

A strange thing happpend to me the other day. I bumped into a sunni guy who lives near me who I thought was very anti-shia and we got talking about Lebanon. He mentioned how proud he was of Hezbollah and Sayyed Nasrallah! :D and how the Shia have showed the world through their steadfastness and resolve they beat the zionists and how he says we should all unite to defeat the common enemies of Islam.. he offered his congratulations to all my family and also i offer this Mabrook/Mubarak to all brothers sisters on this forum of the THE DIVINE VICTORY!!

May Allah (swt) hasten the appearance of Imam Mahdi (aj)

H

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Ameen Akhi Ilyas.

I too follow the Sunni school of thought and your words of unity are very similar to things i say.

Why dont we try and make this thread the biggest thread in this section of "Shia/Sunni Dialogue".

Amongst all the discussions and arguments, It's good to see these posts every now and then from both sides.

And to all who think we need to unite to stand against Israel and US, really we just need to Unite for our sake and our Ummah's sake. The rest falls into place when they see people of diffrent schools of thought standing beside each other, they KNOW they cant break us.

Allah karem brothers and sisters. We just need to do our part first.

Wa'slam,

Firas H.

Edited by FirasH

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Salaam-wa-Rahma all,

Thanks very much to all the brothers and sisters writing in support of unity.

As I said in a previous post on this thread, I'm not calling for Shias and Sunnis to change their respective usul-ud-deen....certainly not. Shias should keep loyal to the concept of Imamate and Sunnis should keep loyal to the concept of Khilafah...just agree to disagree (that is truly realistic and tolerant unity...plus we ALL believe in the coming of Imam Mehdi...although we disagree as to his birth and age...but we do agree that he will be the Prince-of-the-Believers before the end of time).

At the end of the day, our similarities are so much greater than our differences. We ALL agree on the oneness of God, that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allah, on the integrity of the Quran, on the obligatory nature of praying, fasting etc. I don't see why, as a Sunni, I can't benefit from the works of Shia scholars like Ayatollah Khumayni (rahimullah), Ayatollah Fadhlullah (hafidhullah), Mulla Sadra (rahimullah) etc...I do benefit from these and enjoy them immensely. I personally know Shia scholars (Iranian) who enjoy the works of Rumi (ra) and Ibn Arabi (ra)...Alhamdulillah!

As Allah is my witness....a Sunni who makes takfir of Shias is not my brother/sister (in fact, they're my enemy) and vice-versa.

Peace, Mercy and Blessings be upon the people of goodwill from this Ummah.

Edited by Ilyas

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i know i mite be creating fitna but I want to ask all shias something.....Why hasnt any shia apolopgized for and critisized the shia death squads that arrest and murder anyone with the name Umar? just a question...

and I completely agree with brother Ilyas that some sunnis in Iraq have commited atrocities against innocent shias for which there is no excuse......and vice versa...it will be nice to hear a shia criticising the Mehdi army for the murder of innocent civilians

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i know i mite be creating fitna but I want to ask all shias something.....Why hasnt any shia apolopgized for and critisized the shia death squads that arrest and murder anyone with the name Umar? just a question...

and I completely agree with brother Ilyas that some sunnis in Iraq have commited atrocities against innocent shias for which there is no excuse......and vice versa...it will be nice to hear a shia criticising the Mehdi army for the murder of innocent civilians

Im not going to comment about critisizing, but about apologising, we have nothing to apologize for, likewise, bro Ilyas has nothing to apologize for.The only people whom i belive should regret their actions and make a public apology are the people that were behind those crimes, not the people who follow the same religion. An example of what im trying to say is, i will not go on BBc or something and apologize for muslims terrorists.

P.s its their duty to apologize for their crimes, while it is my duty to apoligize for my actions.

ws

Edited by nice-eyes

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i know i mite be creating fitna but I want to ask all shias something.....Why hasnt any shia apolopgized for and critisized the shia death squads that arrest and murder anyone with the name Umar? just a question...

and I completely agree with brother Ilyas that some sunnis in Iraq have commited atrocities against innocent shias for which there is no excuse......and vice versa...it will be nice to hear a shia criticising the Mehdi army for the murder of innocent civilians

Cat stevens...the difference between you and I is this, everyday when Bombs go off in Iraq killing at some stage 100's of Shias in Market places and around Mosques etc etc in Iraq...and the Media states its "Sunni Aggression" ...I and other informed shias say "It is not the sunni, but USA, UK and Mossad trying to ignite civil war" by planning and plotting such attacks to divide the most powerful alliance in the world, sunni and shia...or maybe deep elements of western fed Wahabis whose actions are outside the fold of Islam based on Political gains and not religious ones.

Whereas you when you hear about "Shia Death Squads" replying to such attacks or as u said killing people by the name of Umar (which is rediculous) you easily accept its the shias who conform to such acts of ignorance. Time and again Sistani and other leadings scholars every time after every attacks inform the shias not to react to the lies of the west .... to be patient and strong in the adversity of such attacks and not attack their brothers. Dont you find it extremely strange that most of killings by these men who claim to be the mehdi army is outside the stronghold of mehdi positions?? isnt it strange when they kill innocent people they tell the local people in those regions who they are and enchant "Ya Ali Ya Hussain"....and then disappear. Why would the Mehdi army tell everyone who they are??? Esp when they choose locations to attack Sunnis far away from their central positions which ofcourse is to keep some discretion..then why tell people?? Does it really appear to you that these are Shia soldiers loyal to Moqtada Sadr who for so many times called on Sunnis to join his protests against the western occupation and form alliances as not seperate entities but as a single identity??? SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Your Question and thoughts above are manufactured by the west...thats whats called a "Psychological warefare"..dont always beleive what u read or what u are told!

Edited by wazz

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Im not going to comment about critisizing, but about apologising, we have nothing to apologize for, likewise, bro Ilyas has nothing to apologize for.The only people whom i belive should regret their actions and make a public apology are the people that were behind those crimes, not the people who follow the same religion. An example of what im trying to say is, i will not go on BBc or something and apologize for muslims terrorists.

ws

(salam)

I know I'm not personally responsible for the actions of murderous sectarians (none of the Sunni/Shia awwam are).

I just felt that if I'm going to call for Sunni-Shia unity (and as I've said before, by unity I don't mean that Sunnis or Shias have to give up on their respective aqeedahs, views on the Seerah, methodologies in fiqh/hadith etc) I have to disassociate myself from the actions of people who claim to be acting in my name. I chose an apology as the vehicle for my disassociation from Zarqawi, Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-Jhangvi (Allah curse them all) etc.

To be quite honest, a long time ago (I was 19 at the time...now I'm 28) I was very into the whole Deobandi and Taleban thing. I was a vile and bigotted sectarian...hell I wanted to join the Talibs in their murder of fellow Muslims. Alhamdulillah I met some truly pious and intelligent people (both Sunni and Shia) who showed me how dangerously misguided I was (or rather Allah ta'ala showed me through them).

Basically, this apology is more a part of my own personal tawba for the unjust words and feelings that I've directed against my Shia brothers and sisters (their ulema, aqeedah, practices etc) during my ignorant youth (although at 28 I'm not exactly 'old' :) ).

However, on a more generic note (talking about Muslims as a group, or Shias/Sunnis as a group), what nice-eyes said above is absolutely correct.

Wasalaam

PS - Bro CatStevens...I thought that Muqtada Al Sadr (he's certainly my favourite Iraqi politician) and Jaish Al Mahdi were pro-unity? I seem to recall him supporting the people of Fallujah last year. From what I've read, I thought it was SCIRI's BADR Corp which engaged in sectarian killings.

Edited by Ilyas

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Bro. Ilyas, thank you for your kind words.. even though as so many have said theres no need for u to apologise.

I live in a mainly sunni town, and there are a few thousand shias (3-4 i guess). Although for the most part, the inter sect prejudice (if u can call it that) is from the sunnis directed at the shias, :( it is not the only prejudice. there are also shias who group all sunnis as pro zarqawis, anti ahlul bayt ppl, and i find it sad.

ignorant prejudice is always a sad thing, and where as we should we be working to buildign on our strong areas, ie common unity points, we often dwell on the things which cause division, and give them such importance.

I say a true Muslim is one who follows the commands and submits in totality, and that every Muslim, shia or sunni is striving towards this goal.. and that generalisation of all the people into one group or the other is sad.

for example once i was conversign with a shia friend (it was during or jus before muharram) and we heard about a sunni friends wedding. seh was sooo annoyed, and when i tried to tell her that perhaps our sunni brothers are simply ignorant of the facts, she was even more annoyed.

lol luckily enough, another sunni friend of ours soon joined, and when we asked her about imam Husayn (as) she was at first totally lost, then went oh that one..he died as a kid right??

it is sad that facts are not know, but i say taht ignorance is our worst enemy.

i am a shia (inshallah) but since I have a sunni background, i very often face prejudice from either end, by ppl on both sides of hte border making assumptions about me.

ah well

i guess the least we can do is work towards education our masses about each other, so we are not pitted in a foolish, no-basis war against each other.

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(salam)

Alhamdulillah.. friends forever bro Ilyas :D.. you are right.. conflicting beliefs does produce animosity between two parties.. but everyone has a reason to believe in what they believe for which they should not be condemned and should be treated with respect... wassalaamun alaikum

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Cat stevens...the difference between you and I is this, everyday when Bombs go off in Iraq killing at some stage 100's of Shias in Market places and around Mosques etc etc in Iraq...and the Media states its "Sunni Aggression" ...I and other informed shias say "It is not the sunni, but USA, UK and Mossad trying to ignite civil war" by planning and plotting such attacks to divide the most powerful alliance in the world, sunni and shia...or maybe deep elements of western fed Wahabis whose actions are outside the fold of Islam based on Political gains and not religious ones.

Whereas you when you hear about "Shia Death Squads" replying to such attacks or as u said killing people by the name of Umar (which is rediculous) you easily accept its the shias who conform to such acts of ignorance. Time and again Sistani and other leadings scholars every time after every attacks inform the shias not to react to the lies of the west .... to be patient and strong in the adversity of such attacks and not attack their brothers. Dont you find it extremely strange that most of killings by these men who claim to be the mehdi army is outside the stronghold of mehdi positions?? isnt it strange when they kill innocent people they tell the local people in those regions who they are and enchant "Ya Ali Ya Hussain"....and then disappear. Why would the Mehdi army tell everyone who they are??? Esp when they choose locations to attack Sunnis far away from their central positions which ofcourse is to keep some discretion..then why tell people?? Does it really appear to you that these are Shia soldiers loyal to Moqtada Sadr who for so many times called on Sunnis to join his protests against the western occupation and form alliances as not seperate entities but as a single identity??? SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Your Question and thoughts above are manufactured by the west...thats whats called a "Psychological warefare"..dont always beleive what u read or what u are told!

well i saw on many Tv Channels that 40 sunnis have been beheaded becoz there names were Umar....are u saying it was the U.S?

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(salam)

well i saw on many Tv Channels that 40 sunnis have been beheaded becoz there names were Umar....are u saying it was the U.S?

Can you deny that they were the US??.. can you deny that they could have been sunnis themselves.. I have read how Zarqawi use to address anyone who does not belong to his pack of hooligans.. maybe these sunnis were traitors or helping the foreigners in some way which is why they might have been slaughtered by the so called mujahideens.. making it seem like the shi3a militiamen did it.. take two brids with one stone.. or 40 stones.. wassalaamun alaikum

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(salam)

Can you deny that they were the US??.. can you deny that they could have been sunnis themselves.. I have read how Zarqawi use to address anyone who does not belong to his pack of hooligans.. maybe these sunnis were traitors or helping the foreigners in some way which is why they might have been slaughtered by the so called mujahideens.. making it seem like the shi3a militiamen did it.. take two brids with one stone.. or 40 stones.. wassalaamun alaikum

ur logic>>>>>>> the killing of shias in kerbala was carried out by shias to give sunnis a bad name"wassalaamun alaikum

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Cat Stevens thats is the most twisted ignorant statement I've come across on shiachat. So now shias are killing shias to give sunnis a bad name. Seriously after that statement you dont even deserve a reply....infact the MODS should get rid of ignorance like that and have it BANNED FOR GOOD...for the sake of UNITY!

DID U EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID......

I was applying Zafaryab's logic to another situation. I dont believe that shias killed shias in Kerbala similarly i dont believe that the 40 sunnis killed bcoz they were named Umar , worked for the US( As zafrayab was saying)

Try to understand what is being said wazz. :dry:

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DID U EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID......

I was applying Zafaryab's logic to another situation. I dont believe that shias killed shias in Kerbala similarly i dont believe that the 40 sunnis killed bcoz they were named Umar , worked for the US( As zafrayab was saying)

Try to understand what is being said wazz. :dry:

sorry mate...i jumped the gun there without loading the magazine :angel:

I thought "Ur Logic" was someones ID whom u were addressing lol

Edited by wazz

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well i saw on many Tv Channels that 40 sunnis have been beheaded becoz there names were Umar....are u saying it was the U.S?

US? Without any concrete evidence i cannot precisely suggest who is responsible....nor would i blindly follow the claims of any third party venturist who is known to discredit truth.

Secondly, i regularly read the "independent" and "Guardian" newspaper as well as watch sky, bbc, channel 4 news....and then ofcourse other muslim sources from the website.

I have never come across any accusation that suggests thats Shias are killing "Muslims" (astugfurrullah) ONLY because by birth they had been labelled as Umar which is an innocent name.

In Shia Aqeedah...one who is called Umar, Abu Bakr and Uthman is not to be discredited since these are only names. Though the Character of the 3 Khalifhs is indeed discredited in Shias since we do not approve of their actions. Infact, I have friends who are called Umar.....very common name amongst pakistani sunnis too.

So how come all of a sudden such a sensitive issue and a rediculous claim that shias are beheading men with names is in the spotlight now?? Dont you question the motives?? Certainly, which i dont believe, if A Shia is responsible for such actions.....then Surely he is not one of us....his actions would be regarded as haram and Kufr.

I usually hear stories about Sunnis blowing up 100's of Shias in market places...slaughtering us left right and centre...should i believe such stories?? Or Should I consider the claims of Sistani to hold more water....that these are ploys planned and plotted by the enemy to further disintegrate the Muslims...an enemy who is usually best recognised as "US, UK, MOSSAD Intellegence services, special forces and underworld imperialized dominions of specialised gangs which operate with each nations military systems". According to my sources Shias...are still a sleeping LION....challenging their patience in order to perserve our Humanity (thats shias as a whole)....time and again shias have proved their success through firm analysis, patience and worship....Iran succeeded, Hezbollah succeeded and so will Iraq......So yes you will hear more false allegations and accusations to label shias as anti-sunni....they will continue to fill you with more anti-shia material .... with time all will be revealed!!

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ur logic>>>>>>> the killing of shias in kerbala was carried out by shias to give sunnis a bad name"wassalaamun alaikum

Without evidence.. its a useless deduction... no current shi3a leader have the mentality of a Zarqawi... its regrettable what the wahabies have done to their younger disciples... wassalaamun alaikum

And brother wazz.. I am not more knowledgable than you.. but what to say of a person who believe that 'killing a shi3a will guarantee a place in heaven'??.. I can agree with you that the west provide for them the way to act.. but if a belief of a person is that strong.. I for one cannot deny that such a person is capable of killing a shi3a.. wassalaamun alaikum

Edited by Zafaryab

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Without evidence.. its a useless deduction... no current shi3a leader have the mentality of a Zarqawi... its regrettable what the wahabies have done to their younger disciples... wassalaamun alaikum

And brother wazz.. I am not more knowledgable than you.. but what to say of a person who believe that 'killing a shi3a will guarantee a place in heaven'??.. I can agree with you that the west provide for them the way to act.. but if a belief of a person is that strong.. I for one cannot deny that such a person is capable of killing a shi3a.. wassalaamun alaikum

ANSWER=

I was applying Zafaryab's logic to another situation. I dont believe that shias killed shias in Kerbala similarly i dont believe that the 40 sunnis killed bcoz they were named Umar , worked for the US( As zafrayab was saying)

Try to understand what is being said Zafryab. :dry:

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^

(salam)

You were very quick to blame the shi3as for the death of the 40 sunnis.. you didn't consider the other possibilities.. who is most knowned for beheadings?.. the shi3as or the sunnis/wahabies (whatever you call Zarqawi and his ilk)?.. wassalaamun alaikum

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And brother wazz.. what to say of a person who believe that 'killing a shi3a will guarantee a place in heaven'??.. I can agree with you that the west provide for them the way to act.. but if a belief of a person is that strong.. I for one cannot deny that such a person is capable of killing a shi3a.. wassalaamun alaikum

Bro there are traditions formed from the teachings of Various Sunni Scholars (certainly a minority) who usually belong to the Hanafi Madhab (school of thought) who derive their teachings from later Mullahs (scholars) like Ibn Taymiyyah, and his students, Adh Dhahabi, Ibn al Qayyim, Ibn Katheer, and many others and ofcourse as we all know the father of the Wahabies and salafees, Mohammad Bin Abdul Wahab who spent according to them "the better part of their life" dishonouring the works of the Ahlul Bayt and discrediting Shias as Kafir and Rafidah, etc.

These scholars dont form the majority of the opinion of Sunnis in defining a Shia but certainly their teachings are strong and always expanding in influencing ordinary Sunnis.

Statements like "its better to kill one of your own family members then to eat from the same plate as a shia" and "shias are grave worshippers and worship their imams" and "Killing a Rafida or Kafir, being Shia or other, is the gateway to Heaven" and hundreds of more silly remarks are just some examples of these scholars (well scholars in their prespective). But not all sunnis consider such statements to be legit and some have openly denounced them. Hence why i believe it is extremely important to distinguish betweeen sunni and wahabi/salafees.

So basically i dont trust wahabies too...and i too believe they are active in Iraq, possibly fully compliant with US, UK and MOSSAD, whether directly or indirectly, i guess we'll never know.

Edited by wazz

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^

(salam)

Thank you :).. this is what I was trying to point out as well.. and ofcourse.. its useless to blame someone without any proof.. but in case of wahabies.. there is sufficient proof.. therefore sunnis like bro Ilyaas should NOT be doubted or condemned if they say that they support shi3a in the manner they conduct their international affairs.. and sunnis like bro CatStevens should realize that the wahabi factor is a very ugly factor... therefore.. jumping to conclusions without proof can't validate anyones position... no offence intended... wassalaamun alaikum

Edited by Zafaryab

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(salam)

Dear brothers and sisters of the of the Ithna Ashari School. I'm a nobody and I represent a constituency of one...namely myself.

All I wanted to say, as a Sunni, is that I apologize to you all for the venomous bigotry of certain Sunni 'scholars' (like that snake in Saudi Arabia and various other bigots...eg hardline Deobandis in Indo-Pak) directed against your beliefs and practices .

I apologize to you all for the murder of your worshippers in Karachi, Lahore, Rawalpindi etc by the criminal thugs of Lashkar-Jhangvi (May Allah destroy them).

I apologize to you all for the crimes of the Salafi Jihadis (eg Zarqawi...may he burn in hell) against your worshippers and shrines in Iraq.

I salute your Scholar-Mujahids like Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah (May Allah protect and bless him forever)...through whom Allah has returned honour to ALL the Arabs (Muslim and Christian, Sunni and Shia) and Muslims (Sunni and Shia)...a man who does not soil his mouth with lies and empty boasts...a man who speaks only the truth.

I salute your heroic Mujahids of Hezbullah...who fight according to the Sunna of Allah and His Messenger (pbuh) ...who do not dishonour the word Mujahideen...who do not slaughter civilians and the innocent.

I salute your pious worshippers like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Allah protect him)...who speaks the truth without fear of censure from the West and her politicians and media.

As Allah is my witness, I will never allow a fellow Sunni to call you kafirs or munafiqs, to mock your passion for Imam Hussain (as), to mock your namaz, your azaan etc. I will always speak in your defence dear brothers and sisters.

I truly believe that Makkah, Madinah and Al Quds (our holy places under the control of Zion and her lackeys...for this Lebanon affair makes it as clear as the sky that Saudi and her scholars are the stooges of Zion)...all these will be liberated by your people.

With sincere brotherly love to you all...

a Sunni.

May Allah reward you for your wisdom, your thread made me cry :cry: You dont need to apologise if u truely feel this way in ur heart, it wasnt your doing and the perpetraitors dont speak for you or the majority of muslims. if only all muslims thought this way and stand together equally, each side without a nuance of a feeling of superiority against the other. a big problem today is how islam is being treated by the rest of the world but they are just blind and ignorant and thats their way of life as Allah (SWT) says in the Quraan " they [do not] seek earnestly to understand the quraan [as] there are locks upon their hearts", but i see the bigger problem and the greater concern is the issue within islam, thats what bothers me the most because how can a people who has opened their hearts to Allah and follow his Prophet (pbuh) be so ignorant towards one of their brothers in faith. we are letting our allegiance to men (be they Ali (as) or Abu Bakr) take precedance over the only thing that really matters and that is our allegiance to Allah and thats what islam is (Submission to Allah). thats not to say we forget the men, but it should not be something either side has an issue with. May Allah be pleased with you and i hope you can increase understanding amongs other sunni's.

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