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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Seiful Islam

America created these regimes

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[b:post_uid13][i:post_ui

d13]In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful    [/i:post_uid13][/b:post_uid13]

[b:post_uid13]Extremism is a result of America's policies[/b:post_uid13]

The American Administration says that "it has decided to launch a diplomatic-informational -financial campaign to promote the concepts and practice of democracy in the Arab World and Iran. The campaign aims at reforming and developing the economic, educational and political institutions, as well as defending human tights and lessening the degree of animosity towards America, for the U.S feels that the autocratic regimes in the region have created a favorable atmosphere for extremism and terror to grow".

          Is the American Administration really serious? Does it believe itself, its advisors and informers about the growth of what it calls terrorism?

          It knows quite well that the reason for all this is its unequivocal support of the Zionist enemy. Whether by giving the Zionists a free hand in destroying the Palestinian structure and killing the civilians or by denying the Palestinian people the right of self-determination and fighting occupation. Furthermore, America has considered the Palestinian and Lebanese liberation movements as terrorist organizations. It also besieges Iran and threatens the states of the region claiming that they posses mass destruction weapons although Israel has the biggest arsenal that includes nuclear weapons, in addition to supporting the regimes that oppress their peoples to protect American interests.

          Furthermore, America cares only of its own interests at the expense of the interests of the "Third World" nations. It only wants to insure the flow of oil at a low price, and to keep the Israeli supremacy as well as fighting the "rogue" states to ensure that there is no one in the region who has any power to oppose its comprehensive control, or its usurpation of the region's wealth and resources.

          America does not encourage democracy in the "Third World". It only tries to give the regimes a democratic outlook that hides the autocracies that rule by emergency laws and security apparatus to serve the new American empire… That is why our peoples will remain hostile to America and its policies.

          America has punished Egypt, because the latter tried an Egyptian citizen who has an American passport, but it gave Israel a free hand to arrest and kill the entire Palestinian people. It also remains silent when it comes to the arrest of thousands of militants in the states that follow its dictates, just because they oppose Israel or the US policies with all the injustices they create.

[b:post_uid13]America created these regimes[/b:post_uid13]

If America is claiming to feel sorry for the miseries of the Iraqi people, and pretends to be concerned about the threat the Iraqi regime represents to the region, we should not forget that it is America who creates such regimes, that suit its interests and then changes them when these interests change. Let us ask: Who failed the popular Intifada in Iraq after the war of Kuwait? Who remained silent when the Iraqi regime used mass destruction weapons against its own people? Who supported Iraq in its war against Iran…?

          America does not want a democracy in Iraq that enables the people to be free in their policy choices. It only cares about the Iraqi oil, its investment potentials and its strategic location in the region. That is why we do not trust any American plan to save the Iraqis or the region from the Iraqi regime despite all the dreams of deliverance it is spreading…

          [b:post_uid13][u:post_uid13]We do not have any complexes towards America. Our problem with this country, is that it raises the slogans of freedom and human rights on the one hand and confiscates all our rights to ensure the supremacy of the Jews even if they are violating the rights of others and occupying their lands…on the other hand.[/u:post_uid13][/b:post_uid13]

          The only solution to establish a balanced relation with America is for it to respect our rights, humanity and interests. Then we could have a relationship based on mutual respect and interests.

         [b:post_uid13] Planning for a Palestinian civil war[/b:post_uid13]

In Palestine, the Zionist enemy is continuing its atrocities of killings, arrests, destroying houses and bulldozing gardens.

          It is also trying to distract the Palestinian Authority with deceptive security agreements…

We have heard "Sharon" describing the Gaza first agreement by saying that it is not more than taking two tanks out of the street…

          The Israeli minister of war has expressed his doubts over the ability of the Palestinian Authority to control the security in Gaza and Bethlehem… They -America and the Zionists- want the world to believe that Israel seeks to establish peace with the Palestinians, while in actual fact they are planning to create an internal civil war amongst the Palestinians, thus ensuring on end of the Palestinian struggle.

          Thus, the Mujahideen and all the Palestinian people have to be aware and cautious of this old /new plan…  they have to remain patient and steadfast. They have to continue their struggle and preserve their internal unity… for they have nothing to lose to but their chains… The Arab and Islamic peoples have to uphold its responsibilities towards the Palestinians, by supporting them in all possible means, especially in this critical new stage, thus acting as a bridge, which would allow the Palestinians to pass to the next stage.

          [b:post_uid13]Lebanon: from one crisis into another [/b:post_uid13]

In Lebanon, the debate about the conditions and the basis of the dialogue is still going on. But it has entered into local and sectarian mazes, and thus become unfruitful. It lacks the spirit of true dialogue, for every party wants to drag the other towards it, without moving an inch…. Thus every party stays put in its place and starts to accuse the others of undermining the dialogue.

          In addition, the spirit of seeking the support of external forces still emerges every now and then, as if they have not learned yet that these bets are losing ones.

          The people, on the other hand, are suffering from the tough economic conditions, especially that new laws were passed that make certain means of earning a living unlawful, and new direct and indirect taxes have been imposed to lessen the deficiency in the budget that has grown in an unprecedented way as a result of accumulating debt, as well as theft and corruption.

All this at a time the whole region is unstable and about to face drastic changes.

With all the regional and international plots awaiting it or trying to put their hands on it...Where are you taking lebanon to ?

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We created all the evil in the world didn't you know? Even the things that are good and turn bad. It's all America's fault. When people's hearts turn towards bad things, don't you know, America causes that to happen? We are so powerful are we not? What a crock!!!

Why don't you find something uplifting and encouraging to write for a change. Doom and gloom all the time. You are so depressing.

Now, let's wait for all the praise for the "enlightening information." Anyone?

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[America does not want a democracy in Iraq that enables the people to be free in their policy choices. It only cares about the Iraqi oil, its investment potentials and its strategic location in the region. That is why we do not trust any American plan to save the Iraqis or the region from the Iraqi regime despite all the dreams of deliverance it is spreading...]

Brother, what exactly you trying to emphasis here. Iraqi oil? investment potentials?

Brother I think we need to be more realistic than that. I'm not playing devil advocate here but the revenue of GE itself surpass the entire revenue of entire arab world minus the oil. The entire GDP is less than of a Finland of entire arab world we we not to count "our" oil.

Its not americans nor any western society who is trying to put some kinda hold on us, sadly it us. We never played a role of an oppurtunist. We created our own cults of religions/sects diversities for power, controls, and wealth.

Sadly "they" now know that how we can be controlled on the name of religion and put out several puppets on our entire muslims world. They can take advantage of our fanatisim on the name of religion.

I think its time to stop blaming other and be realistic to ourselves and try to create unity not on who is shia, sunni, wahabi, gillani, araibi, iraqi, irani..etc but on the name of Islam. The example is very clear and infront of us. Whenever they allies against us, all the western countries get together on the name of christianity.

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Also, Oil is only valuable if there is someone who demands it.  Tell me, what would the price of oil do and how much revenue would be made if the ME did not sell oil to the west?  It would be useless and put more people out of jobs.  

Look, even without American intrusion and influence.  Are the different fighting sects of Islam going to unite?  Are the extremists who poison the world in the name of Islam going to go away?  Is Pakistan going to get along w/India?  Are the Shia's going to get along with Shi'ite?  Is Iraq going to get along w/Iran?  Etc.....

It's easier to blame others than to actually accept a little responsiblity for festering hatred and this concept of "Amercan Devil".  How is that helpful to your children and society?

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"Look, even without American intrusion and influence.  Are the different fighting sects of Islam going to unite?  Are the extremists who poison the world in the name of Islam going to go away?  Is Pakistan going to get along w/India?  Are the Shia's going to get along with Shi'ite?  Is Iraq going to get along w/Iran?  Etc....."

you dont know what your talking about!!!!

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sag_IMAM-REZA, with respect, seems like me and Morassofnegativity did not able to get the gists of the topic. Would you like to eloborate your point of view on the subject matter that on what ground you have spitout that "you dont know what you talking about".

You just said it because you have so much haterd against america and western society or you have some kinda evidence which can be discuss at the intelectual level.

Help will be highly appreciated.

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Brother I think we need to be more realistic than that. I'm not playing devil advocate here but the revenue of GE itself surpass the entire revenue of entire arab world minus the oil. The entire GDP is less than of a Finland of entire arab world we we not to count "our" oil.

Its not americans nor any western society who is trying to put some kinda hold on us, sadly it us. We never played a role of an oppurtunist. We created our own cults of religions/sects diversities for power, controls, and wealth.

Sadly "they" now know that how we can be controlled on the name of religion and put out several puppets on our entire muslims world. They can take advantage of our fanatisim on the name of religion.

I think its time to stop blaming other and be realistic to ourselves and try to create unity not on who is shia, sunni, wahabi, gillani, araibi, iraqi, irani..etc but on the name of Islam. The example is very clear and infront of us. Whenever they allies against us, all the western countries get together on the name of christianity.

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peace

ok :)  

  "Look, even without American intrusion and influence.  Are the different fighting sects of Islam going to unite?"      

they have united, the shia of southern iraq and the sunni of northern iraq helpd Islams iran against saddam, but the chemical woapans the us gave/let go  to saddam stopd crushd them. the sunni's of africa cheerd for iran, the sunnis of south africa wanted to go to iran and fight for it, but our brothers the sunni sheiks that had been to iran for visits  had to tell them "relax they have enough man power they need guns." we have sunni and even christian brothers in HEZBALLAH, some sunni groups even wanted IMAM KHOMEINI(pbuMaHHP) to be khalif of the Ummah. and all the other main groups say shias and sunni are brothers,   :)  , i have even seen sunni sheiks in the us calling for islamic republics like the one in iran.

  "Are the extremists who poison the world in the name of Islam going to go away?"

well, yes. if the us stops protesting saudi we can get rid of them, saudi is not all wahabi, its just the wahabi that have the power, and they give cash to the crazy groups that like to start fights. most of saudi is shia and sunni and they can get along just fine, the same way they do in every islamic country except in pakistan and afghanistan, and they were doing good there before andd they can do it again if the cash from saudi stops, but no saudi is americas buddy.

 "Is Pakistan going to get along w/India?"

 "we would like it to, but not if our brothers in kashmir are going to be oppressed."

"Are the Shia's going to get along with Shi'ite?"

:) do u see what i mean now.

"Is Iraq going to get along w/Iran?  Etc....."

 if the us had not given aid to saddam in the war we would be one entity by now, and if the us takes its paw's off we can achieve it.     :)  i hope you understand now.

peace  :)

Edited By sag_IMAM-REZA on 1030681697

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just like to add, the conflict b/w pakistan and india has nothing to do with religion, it is only political.

Wheres socrates when you need him!  and bro hezbollahi?  c'mon guys, we know your somewhere around here.

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Guest hussam

We created all the evil in the world didn't you know? Even the things that are good and turn bad. It's all America's fault. When people's hearts turn towards bad things, don't you know, America causes that to happen? We are so powerful are we not? What a crock!!!

Why don't you find something uplifting and encouraging to write for a change. Doom and gloom all the time. You are so depressing.

Now, let's wait for all the praise for the "enlightening information." Anyone?

all you are doing is being sarcastic this servers no purpose.

Fact

American is the world biggest hypocrite.

It speaks about spreading freedom and democracy but it acts are of backing the cruelest regimes like Israel which continues to kill Palestinian people daily. Where is the democracy and freedom for those people?? or are they only Arabs who do not own large media companies(like Zionists).

It also jumps up and down about Iran implementing Islamic law yet it says nothing about the Saudis doing the same why? because the Saudi government does not actively try to support the Palestinians(meaning it does really not care about so called democracy and freedom only "Israelis security"). Also just for facts the west was instrumental in putting ibn saud into power in the Arabian gulf so l find that government only with wahabism if you were to look in the history of it to be western aided/creation.

As for providing encouraging and uplifting news are you saying that we should be taking about useless popular western information like britney spears next hit record instead of about the fact the illiterate in Washington is planning to bomb plenty of Iraqis.

And yes l found the information to be very informative and useful way more than you would find in west news sources or western media which is the king of misinformation, hypocrisy and smut. You only have to look at Fox News channel or any other channel but fox news is a very good example.

Also note this was a sermon by a leading Shiite cleric in Lebanon. And as you are in an AhlulBayt Discussion Forum this is the information l think that was meet to be disturbed/discussed in this forum.

Edited By hussam on 1030722034

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Guest hussam
Also, Oil is only valuable if there is someone who demands it.  Tell me, what would the price of oil do and how much revenue would be made if the ME did not sell oil to the west?  It would be useless and put more people out of jobs.  

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Guest hussam

[America does not want a democracy in Iraq that enables the people to be free in their policy choices. It only cares about the Iraqi oil, its investment potentials and its strategic location in the region. That is why we do not trust any American plan to save the Iraqis or the region from the Iraqi regime despite all the dreams of deliverance it is spreading...]

Brother, what exactly you trying to emphasis here. Iraqi oil? investment potentials?

Brother I think we need to be more realistic than that. I'm not playing devil advocate here but the revenue of GE itself surpass the entire revenue of entire arab world minus the oil. The entire GDP is less than of a Finland of entire arab world we we not to count "our" oil.

Its not americans nor any western society who is trying to put some kinda hold on us, sadly it us. We never played a role of an oppurtunist. We created our own cults of religions/sects diversities for power, controls, and wealth.

Sadly "they" now know that how we can be controlled on the name of religion and put out several puppets on our entire muslims world. They can take advantage of our fanatisim on the name of religion.

I think its time to stop blaming other and be realistic to ourselves and try to create unity not on who is shia, sunni, wahabi, gillani, araibi, iraqi, irani..etc but on the name of Islam. The example is very clear and infront of us. Whenever they allies against us, all the western countries get together on the name of christianity.

I don't see how ge revenues have to do with the original post. Let me break it down for you...

This is not about the Arabs will be rich if it wasn't for Americans. What the sayyed is saying in the sermon is that America does not care about the Arab, what the Arab wants etc. America cares about 2 things

Israel ( cos they control the media and lots of Zionist vote in new york)

and secondly cheap supply of oil.

So the sayyed is saying is when g w bush says he wants to spread "democracy and freedom" around the world, basically he lying, this isn't even part of aim for the possible attacks against Iraq or American policy in the region.

Edited By hussam on 1030721929

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Well Mr Hussam, have you read his post thoroughly????

His emphasis was that western socities has been and upto this very date, taking advantages of Arab oil. Now the question arises that what he mean by taking avantage. Were Arabs were thinking about shoving all the oil into their behind???? No...that was a comodity and it has to be taken as a vital export for arab countries. And for that, they have been well compensated. All I said that the mover and shakers of the arab world were not oppurtunist enough to take the advantage of the humangous revenue they received over the peroid of time to established industries and manufacturer plants of some sort but to gulp the nector to compile their swiss accounts and their castles. Every now and than, some of they money were given to "poor" or "oppressed" nation on the name of charity for them to look active in that arnea. Some of them like saddam, are compensating who can show the highest fanatism by blowing oneself up but other than that no constructive approach.

All I'm saying that instead of screaming and yelling at isreal, western soceities and US, we need to take advantage of the time by humongus revenue generated from this valuable source and make ourself strong. Money is a very vital to build one nation strong beside emotion.

At this point and I'm sure that everybody is aware of this now that arab world can no longer threat for oil any more cause thare are severals sources within the US and south America has been discovered lately. If arabs try to threat to increase the price of a barrel than its like cutting their life line by themselves. Reason: western societies, US/canada and fareast are buying because its cheaper, per barrel, to buy from arabs than to extract from other resourses. If the price been hiked up by OPEC under the notion of being the only one than the current market will change their buyers to other sourse than OPEC. And once this cooky crumble, there is no way to stop that.

Edited By Fsiddiqui on 1031085587

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mr.fisidiq  

 "sag_IMAM-REZA, with respect, seems like me and Morassofnegativity did not able to get the gists of the topic. Would you like to eloborate your point of view on the subject matter that on what ground you have spitout that "you dont know what you talking about".

You just said it because you have so much haterd against america and western society or you have some kinda evidence which can be discuss at the intelectual level."

u act like ur such a gentleman, then like a hypocrit u use words like  "spitout"  then u go and say

"u"  "say"  "it" "cuz"  "u" "have" "so" "much" "hatred"  

that was not Intellectual if u ask me. now that you have had your reply to ur rude post would u like to answer or just keep on going around and acting like an intellectual gentleman while u insult?

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Guest hussam
Well Mr Hussam, have you read his post thoroughly????

His emphasis was that western socities has been and upto this very date, taking advantages of Arab oil. Now the question arises that what he mean by taking avantage. Were Arabs were thinking about shoving all the oil into their behind???? No...that was a comodity and it has to be taken as a vital export for arab countries. And for that, they have been well compensated. All I said that the mover and shakers of the arab world were not oppurtunist enough to take the advantage of the humangous revenue they received over the peroid of time to established industries and manufacturer plants of some sort but to gulp the nector to compile their swiss accounts and their castles. Every now and than, some of they money were given to "poor" or "oppressed" nation on the name of charity for them to look active in that arnea. Some of them like saddam, are compensating who can show the highest fanatism by blowing oneself up but other than that no constructive approach.

All I'm saying that instead of screaming and yelling at isreal, western soceities and US, we need to take advantage of the time by humongus revenue generated from this valuable source and make ourself strong. Money is a very vital to build one nation strong beside emotion.

At this point and I'm sure that everybody is aware of this now that arab world can no longer threat for oil any more cause thare are severals sources within the US and south America has been discovered lately. If arabs try to threat to increase the price of a barrel than its like cutting their life line by themselves. Reason: western societies, US/canada and fareast are buying because its cheaper, per barrel, to buy from arabs than to extract from other resourses. If the price been hiked up by OPEC under the notion of being the only one than the current market will change their buyers to other sourse than OPEC. And once this cooky crumble, there is no way to stop that.

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Mr Reza I apologize if you felt like that you been insulted. I used the slang "spitout" as "somthing been said" without being hypocritical. So instead of complaining and mocking me, i will request you to concentrate on the real issue !!!!!!

And For Hussam:

Its our govt. who let the western societies intervened into our system. We have humongous problem to maintain the accountiblity system due to our own govt policies and corruptions. When things gets out of control, they started panicky and let the west to handle the situation. Offcousre, where ever the west find loopholes, they implement their own bug to gain their own interest-which is very close to human nature.

So instead of yelling at the west it would be far more benficial if we become critical towards our govt.

I'm given you a bird eye view at the macro level.  Everybody from third world knew, deep inside their hearts, that what exactly going on but we are so frail that we cannot raise our voice against our own govermental system and at the same time so pathetic and gullible that our elites (mover and shakers) able to manipulate us towards the outside sourse.

You know the truth hussam but you dont wanna admit it, WHY- cause, this way the saga been stage infront of you, from the very beginnig of your time. Unless you broaden your horizon and able to see the other side of the coin, you will be showing your hatered against the western culture.

Please make sure that my explanation does not constitute the inclination towards the western policies but I have enough moral courage to say the right thing without being biased.

Edited By Fsiddiqui on 1031340479

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Guest hussam

Mr Reza I apologize if you felt like that you been insulted. I used the slang "spitout" as "somthing been said" without being hypocritical. So instead of complaining and mocking me, i will request you to concentrate on the real issue !!!!!!

And For Hussam:

Its our govt. who let the western societies intervened into our system. We have humongous problem to maintain the accountiblity system due to our own govt policies and corruptions. When things gets out of control, they started panicky and let the west to handle the situation. Offcousre, where ever the west find loopholes, they implement their own bug to gain their own interest-which is very close to human nature.

So instead of yelling at the west it would be far more benficial if we become critical towards our govt.

I'm given you a bird eye view at the macro level.  Everybody from third world knew, deep inside their hearts, that what exactly going on but we are so frail that we cannot raise our voice against our own govermental system and at the same time so pathetic and gullible that our elites (mover and shakers) able to manipulate us towards the outside sourse.

You know the truth hussam but you dont wanna admit it, WHY- cause, this way the saga been stage infront of you, from the very beginnig of your time. Unless you broaden your horizon and able to see the other side of the coin, you will be showing your hatered against the western culture.

Please make sure that my explanation does not constitute the inclination towards the western policies but I have enough moral courage to say the right thing without being biased.

Its our govt. who let the western societies intervened into our system. We have humongous problem to maintain the accountiblity system due to our own govt policies and corruptions. Offcousre, where ever the west find loopholes, they implement their own bug to gain their own interest-which is very close to human nature.

Yes I agree, therefore we should tell the Arab not to allow the westerner to intervene in the region. Which was what the Sayyed is saying!, do not allow America to bomb Iraq, do not trust America. The Sayyed wasn't saying do not blame the arab, no! read the sermon again please!

So instead of yelling at the west it would be far more benficial if we become critical towards our govt.

please read the sermon again, the sermon is not about this, how to you conclude the sermon to be about this?

Everybody from third world knew, deep inside their hearts, that what exactly going on but we are so frail that we cannot raise our voice against our own govermental system and at the same time so pathetic and gullible that our elites (mover and shakers) able to manipulate us towards the outside sourse.

Well here is a cleric, a leader of the community raising his voice against this, and what do you do? You start criticising the sayyed why?

You know the truth hussam but you dont wanna admit it,

WHY- cause, this way the saga been stage infront of you, from the very beginnig of your time. Unless you broaden your horizon and able to see the other side of the coin, you will be showing your hatered against the western culture.

Firstly it is not about not trying to admit it. What l was trying to do was to defend this servant of Allah, this man conducted a sermon telling the Arab not to bow their heads to America. It was posted on this board, half wits starting criticising it for no reason, actually there is a reason they are ungrateful people. I am not interested in seeing the other side of the coin, l want to see the truth! and the sayyed was saying it, so therefore I defended it!

Edited By hussam on 1031395245

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Fsiddiqui  

You have renewed my faith in humanity. 99% of the arguments on this site are spawned from the simple facts of what you are talking about. As a westerner looking in, it bothers me greatly to see all of the worlds misery put squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. or the western world.

I agree that Israel should be punished for killing innocent Palestinians.

I agree that Israel should pull back to it's 1967 borders.

I agree that Islam (in its original format) is a great religion.

I agree that muslims in the middle east have ENORMOUS potential, if they stopped fighting amongst each other.

I can go on for hours. You get my point.

My single biggest "beef" that I have is the failure to accept even the smallest amount of responsibility for the middle east by middle easterners. I compare many, not all middle easterners to someone on welfare. (sorry for the comparison but it fits my point) These people blame all their misery on everything and everyone around them yet fail to even question the notion that maybe they are at fault or responsible for their own welfare.

Imagine this. Make profits from oil exports the property of the people. This money could be used to build factories thus creating more jobs. More people making money means that more people would spend their money on other goods and services thus creating even more jobs and prosperity. The building of schools, mosques, buildings etc now become easier and more affordable. The spinoff effect is endless.

Having trillions of dollars sitting in swiss bank accounts under the name of a few does zero good to the common folk in the middle east that are experiencing hardships just feeding their families. Right now the middle east is at 10% of its potential. They are capable of great things if they just put their minds to it but saddly most of them are just looking forward to their next big anti-american protest. Instead of talking about how much you hate the west at your next get together, why don't you start talking about how to better yourselves.

I have used a lot of metaphores in this post. I used them to make my point easier to understand. Please do not lash out at me for these. I know that all of you are not on welfare. I'm just using some of these to better express myself.

P.S. This is meant to be a POSITIVE post. Please do not turn it into a NEGATIVE post.

The first step is cleaning out your own government, not trying to change americas.

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And For Hussam:

Its our govt. who let the western societies intervened into our system. We have humongous problem to maintain the accountiblity system due to our own govt policies and corruptions. When things gets out of control, they started panicky and let the west to handle the situation. Offcousre, where ever the west find loopholes, they implement their own bug to gain their own interest-which is very close to human nature.

So instead of yelling at the west it would be far more benficial if we become critical towards our govt.

I'm given you a bird eye view at the macro level.  Everybody from third world knew, deep inside their hearts, that what exactly going on but we are so frail that we cannot raise our voice against our own govermental system and at the same time so pathetic and gullible that our elites (mover and shakers) able to manipulate us towards the outside sourse.

You know the truth hussam but you dont wanna admit it, WHY- cause, this way the saga been stage infront of you, from the very beginnig of your time. Unless you broaden your horizon and able to see the other side of the coin, you will be showing your hatered against the western culture.

Please make sure that my explanation does not constitute the inclination towards the western policies but I have enough moral courage to say the right thing without being biased."

we dont have more than a couple govt's in the mid e, most are puppets out for survival, and america gives them the hand that keeps them in power, so as long as america protects these puppets, she will be hated.

specially when america go's after govt's that are not half as bad as these puppets but winks at the puppets cuz they are puppets.

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Mr Reza.....On a philosophical level, Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda have managed to drag Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' out of the obscurity it deserved after making a splash when it first appeared a few years ago. The point the American political scientist made about Islam having 'bloody borders' seems vindicated, and his whole thesis about the underlying tension between the Hellenic-Christian West and Islam appears to have been finally proved after it had been thoroughly debunked by serious academics.

If unchallenged, this growing divide has certain very serious implications for the future. Whether we like it or not - and most Muslims don't - the West has a virtual monopoly on capital and technology. The Muslim world has failed to internalize science and reason, and has been paying a heavy price for its BACKWARDNESS for centuries. This trend is unlikely to change in the near future, and the present dependence on the West is going to continue.

However, except for the oil-exporting nations, other Muslim countries will need either foreign aid or investments if they are to keep their heads above water. But in the current climate of hostility and distrust, it is doubtful if the old relationships will endure, particularly if religious fanatics continue to attack western interests. Already, investments sectors in muslims countries have dropped to a trickle because of the terrorist strikes against Americans, Europeans and local Christians.

Despite all these problems and setbacks, there are many in the Muslim world who secretly feel that the 9/11 attacks were justified, and that Osama bin Laden is a hero. For them, the West is the villain and any means to oppose it are justified. Ironically, these same people want their children to study in America. There are well-known leaders of religious parties whose kids have settled in the States. Clearly there is a contradiction here, but it is one that we Muslims are all too keen to sweep under the carpet.

The bottom line is that we cannot simultaneously wage war against the West and expect its assistance.

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Mr Reza.....On a philosophical level, Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda have managed to drag Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' out of the obscurity it deserved after making a splash when it first appeared a few years ago. The point the American political scientist made about Islam having 'bloody borders' seems vindicated, and his whole thesis about the underlying tension between the Hellenic-Christian West and Islam appears to have been finally proved after it had been thoroughly debunked by serious academics.

If unchallenged, this growing divide has certain very serious implications for the future. Whether we like it or not - and most Muslims don't - the West has a virtual monopoly on capital and technology. The Muslim world has failed to internalize science and reason, and has been paying a heavy price for its BACKWARDNESS for centuries. This trend is unlikely to change in the near future, and the present dependence on the West is going to continue.

However, except for the oil-exporting nations, other Muslim countries will need either foreign aid or investments if they are to keep their heads above water. But in the current climate of hostility and distrust, it is doubtful if the old relationships will endure, particularly if religious fanatics continue to attack western interests. Already, investments sectors in muslims countries have dropped to a trickle because of the terrorist strikes against Americans, Europeans and local Christians.

Despite all these problems and setbacks, there are many in the Muslim world who secretly feel that the 9/11 attacks were justified, and that Osama bin Laden is a hero. For them, the West is the villain and any means to oppose it are justified. Ironically, these same people want their children to study in America. There are well-known leaders of religious parties whose kids have settled in the States. Clearly there is a contradiction here, but it is one that we Muslims are all too keen to sweep under the carpet.

The bottom line is that we cannot simultaneously wage war against the West and expect its assistance.

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Hussam, I respect you alot and I revised my faith everyday. But my political content far outweighs my spiritual element. The poetry and symbolism are marginalized as heavy emphasis is placed on jihad, martyrdom and florid descriptions of the joys that await a martyr in paradise. This indoctrination - it can hardly be called belief - has no place for love, tolerance and respect for other faiths. It is a bleak, monochromatic and joyless religion that is far removed from the Islam that was revealed by the Almighty.

But even the faith that is followed by the majority of Muslims around the world has given rise to certain problems that need to be examined and discussed. Specifically, we need to ask why Muslim societies have provided such barren soil for democracy. In a recent survey conducted by Freedom House, an independent monitor of political rights, it was found that over 75 per cent of 145 non-Muslim countries are democracies to varying degrees. However, only 11 out of the 47 nations that are predominantly Muslim can claim to be democracies. In actual fact, only one Muslim state is genuinely democratic, and that is Mali (Mali?. After Mali come Bangladesh, Indonesia, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey and Morocco.

Interestingly, out of the ten least free countries in the world according to this survey, seven are Muslim: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Turkmenistan. Depressingly, instead of agitating for greater freedom, young people in Muslim countries are going in the opposite direction by demanding stricter adherence to the letter of the Islamic law, thereby insisting on a narrow observance of ritual and a denial of rationalism and secularism, the two preconditions for democracy.

Mercifully, these voices are relatively few in number, but they drown out the voices of sanity and reason by their shrillness and their claim to the fundamentalist high ground. Indeed, for the rest of the world, these people have become the face of Islam with their contorted, bearded faces spouting hate-filled slogans.

For my brother and sisters who might feel this is an unfair portrayal of the Muslim world, here is another statistic to conjure with: three out of every four refugees today are Muslims fleeing their countries for either political or economic reasons. Granted that Afghanistan has skewed the picture with its millions of refugees who have found shelter in neighbouring countries, but how are we to explain the flood of North African, Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims who have flooded Europe and North America? Most of these millions have made homes elsewhere to escape the poverty, poor governance and lack of liberty that have come to characterize and define the Islamic world.

So in a sense, the two broad movements that today influence the Muslim psyche can be categorized as a suffocatingly anti-progressive tendency and a shrill, murderous radicalism. These competing dogmas have effectively squeezed the political space available for a debate on the need for liberalism and democracy.

The effect of this negative portrayal of Islam abroad has been devastating for those millions of Muslims who have been trying to make a new beginning for themselves and their families in the West. Understandably, people are nervous about wanting to fly with passengers who look even remotely 'Middle Eastern'. How many Western businesses would today take the risk of hiring Muslims? While we may complain of racism, the fact remains that in a competitive world, Muslims will be at a disadvantage as long as their coreligionists loudly proclaim their intention to destroy western institutions.

Edited By Fsiddiqui on 1031667916

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Guest hussam

Hussam, I respect you alot and I revised my faith everyday. But my political content far outweighs my spiritual element.

Know that this life is short but the afterlife is eternal.

The poetry and symbolism are marginalized as heavy emphasis is placed on jihad, martyrdom and florid descriptions of the joys that await a martyr in paradise.

You are learning about Islam form the west. The emphasis is not here. However you must understand that Islam is under attack and if you deny this you are only being a fool, so sometimes martyrdom is spoken of.

This indoctrination - it can hardly be called belief - has no place for love, tolerance and respect for other faiths. It is a bleak, monochromatic and joyless religion that is far removed from the Islam that was revealed by the Almighty.

yes The Prophet was very tolerable and showed great love and respect , most of his life the enemies of Islam used to harass him and his followers severely, if you know anything about Islamic history you would know what great patience the Prophet had. Now if someone where to follow the way of the prophet he took he would have great tolerance and respect, now let us follow the prophet.

But even the faith that is followed by the majority of Muslims around the world has given rise to certain problems that need to be examined and discussed. Specifically, we need to ask why Muslim societies have provided such barren soil for democracy.

Now we have to understand what is meant by the term democracy. I was watching a documentary about Chile, the far right in that country were unhappy about how the situation now that pinochet is gone form power. One of them said that "Democracy now has become a virtue now, but in reality it is only a method of electing a leader". Many unjust governments have existed under the pretext of "democracy". For example Israel, America(including when the whites owned slaves they were still practicing "democracy".) The Americans are ahead not because their system of government but because they know how to monopolies capital worldwide. Look at Latin America there poor but there not Muslims, this wealth disparage can't be blamed on religion.

 

In a recent survey conducted by Freedom House, an independent monitor of political rights, it was found that over 75 per cent of 145 non-Muslim countries are democracies to varying degrees. However, only 11 out of the 47 nations that are predominantly Muslim can claim to be democracies. In actual fact, only one Muslim state is genuinely democratic, and that is Mali (Mali?. After Mali come Bangladesh, Indonesia, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey and Morocco. Interestingly, out of the ten least free countries in the world according to this survey, seven are Muslim: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Turkmenistan. Depressingly, instead of agitating for greater freedom, young people in Muslim countries are going in the opposite direction by demanding stricter adherence to the letter of the Islamic law, thereby insisting on a narrow observance of ritual and a denial of rationalism and secularism, the two preconditions for democracy.

I don't really care about somebody filling out stupid ballots, if that what you want out of life well i think you better think again. As seen by our far right Chilean friend and history  democratic rule is not a virtue, True Islamic rule is full of virtues.

As for rationalism, the only rationalism you find in America is lets dominate the world, Islam is full of rationale thought. Like ALLAHU AKBAR, therefore if Allah is great and the creator of the world, we should worship Allah and follow the creator righteous path, the path the Prophet set out. As for secularism well that just a fancy word for lets be a Kuffar.

Mercifully, these voices are relatively few in number, but they drown out the voices of sanity and reason by their shrillness and their claim to the fundamentalist high ground. Indeed, for the rest of the world, these people have become the face of Islam with their contorted, bearded faces spouting hate-filled slogans.

What is your version of "sanity and reason" lets be like turkey, and not allow women to study at university if they wear hijab. In others words forget the prophet, forget islam, forget Allah and embrace America. Is this your version of "sanity and reason"?

For my brother and sisters who might feel this is an unfair portrayal of the Muslim world, here is another statistic to conjure with: three out of every four refugees today are Muslims fleeing their countries for either political or economic reasons. Granted that Afghanistan has skewed the picture with its millions of refugees who have found shelter in neighbouring countries, but how are we to explain the flood of North African, Middle Eastern and South Asian Muslims who have flooded Europe and North America? Most of these millions have made homes elsewhere to escape the poverty, poor governance and lack of liberty that have come to characterize and define the Islamic world.

I don't think is about a lack of "freedom and democracy" issue, they want jobs, the west has a majority of the wealth and have used their underhanded tactics in order to achieve this. Also l warned not to confuse some present day Muslims and their present day circumstances with the religion of Islam and it teachings, so let me repeat it again if the muslims(as a whole) had follow the way of the prophet faithfully and followed the way the AhulBayt faithfully the Muslim world wouldn’t be were it is now. America supports Saudi Arabia, etc, so l won't be looking to them for help anyway.    

So in a sense, the two broad movements that today influence the Muslim psyche can be categorized as a suffocatingly anti-progressive tendency and a shrill, murderous radicalism. These competing dogmas have effectively squeezed the political space available for a debate on the need for liberalism and democracy.

There is no need for allowing homos on the streets, or other wickedness, look at turkey gees they have gone far, NOT!! what the Arabs need to do is to follow the way of the prophet and the way of Islam. The Arab populace would probably want this but America would use their regimes to control them. That’s why you don't see the hypocrites America talking about Iraqis choosing their future, they have continuously talked about another military regime. This is what they prefer for you, so there, your king America who ask for help to, and preaches "democracy" to you, shows what they really want for you. A militarily dictatorship like the Saudi royal family, like the Shah, and even Saddam. But this next Saddam will bow at the feet of Israel and America, thats the thing that will only change.

 

The effect of this negative portrayal of Islam abroad has been devastating for those millions of Muslims who have been trying to make a new beginning for themselves and their families in the West. Understandably, people are nervous about wanting to fly with passengers who look even remotely 'Middle Eastern'. How many Western businesses would today take the risk of hiring Muslims?

What’s the point? the Japanese where harassed, so were the Germans. If a kuffar doesn't like you, they don't like you (however tolerable and loving you imagine these kuffar are). Why are you worried at appeasing the kuffar?. What about appeasing Allah? Why don't you think about the people who have had their land usurped in Palestine, made to live in refugee camps in order so some congressman form the land you admire so much can get some money form some ZioNazi. Should they stop fighting so you and your boss can a have a beer? and become kuffar like them? These is the scenario you are advocating for the Muslim to become secular, and appease the Kuffar

ALLAHU AKBAR!

Edited By hussam on 1031724343

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Hussam it seems like you under the impression of me in denial of supreme being. This is not the case. My optimistic views towards the west does not compose my declination towards Islam.

The point is very simple, Allah has never change the fate of one nation unless they tried to change themself first. So we have to commence a entire different attitude and angles to establish our existance. And certainly anger, hate, jingle of death and just keep on beleiving on Allah and do nothing is not the way.

I hope you will agree with me on this.

Edited By Fsiddiqui on 1031763647

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Fsiddiqui

You are wasting your time with hussam.

It's people like him that give muslims and Islam in general a bad name. I live in Canada and I have many muslim friends including family (by marriage). They practice their religion just like everyone else. We do not make the muslim women that are covered feel uncomfortable for being different, if anything, I notice that me and my friends go out of our way to make them feel comfortable. I respect muslim traditions such as not shaking my friend Mahmoods wifes hand. It was a little strange for me at first but I don't have a problem with it and I'm not in the least bit offended.

The muslims that I have befriended and work with are more like you Fsiddiqui and I am thankful for that. We respect each others religions and go about our business of raising our families in peace. We have open discussions about politics and agree most of the time but there are certain topics that we agree to disgree on.

The ones that are out looking for confrontation are few and far between but are much more vocal and get more attention. Unfortunately, these are the people that bring about the sterotypes that hurt muslims and Islam.

Keep fighting the good fight Fsiddiqui.

You provide me with hope that one day in the future we can "ALL" put this behind us and live in love and peace together.

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Hussam it seems like you under the impression of me in denial of supreme being. This is not the case. My optimistic views towards the west does not compose my declination towards Islam.

The point is very simple, Allah has never change the fate of one nation unless they tried to change themselves first. So we have to commence a entire different attitude and angles to establish our existence. And certainly anger, hate, jingle of death and just keep on believing on Allah and do nothing is not the way.

I hope you will agree with me on this.

Well when you suggest we should be sub-servants of the west it does. Muslims need do change, but this change is to further follow the path of Islam not go against Islam. How about your hatred?. Also look, if we fight in the way of Islam like the Hizbollah did in Lebanon we will be successful. However if we try to change Islam, and design it to suit our fears and wants will not be successful. Then we are not worshiping ALLLAH but ourselves. We can MODERNISE and DELVOPE the middle east without kissing Americas feet. The kissing of America feet in Saudi Arabia and Egypt has done nothing.

Edited By hussam on 1031780073

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You provide me with hope that one day in the future we can "ALL" put this behind us and live in love and peace together.

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Hussam If Fight, Fight, Fight and Fight and death to every non-beleivers is the solution and me against such notion(s) constitute kissing westerner feet, compromising our fear against Islam, and going against Allah's will than buddy I'm sorry to say that we have a maturity gap problems here.

Mind me asking you if how old you are????

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Hussam If Fight, Fight, Fight and Fight and death to every non-beleivers is the solution and me against such notion(s) constitute kissing westerner feet, compromising our fear against Islam, and going against Allah's will than buddy I'm sorry to say that we have a maturity gap problems here.

Mind me asking you if how old you are????

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[How you expect things to change?, ]

Take responsibility for yourselves. All your miseries are not spawned from the west. Look within.

[This discussion is about you saying lets beg for help from the westerners. The solution is not this, The solution is to follow Islam. Your saying lets follow the west, and if America doesn't support the Muslim, The Muslims are all going to be destroyed.]

She never implied that you should beg for westerners help. Why can't you follow Islam and still be friends with westerners?

[Also we should be wise enough to figure out what American government agenda is, controlling the M.E. for the benefit of Israel and cheap oil.]

Name me one muslim country with a western leader.

500 million arabs vs 5 million Jews. If "ALL" the muslims decided to sit down Israel I think they could do it but they are too busy fighting amongst themselves. You fight amongst yourselves yet blame everyone else.

[Also know (government of) Amercia is a GREAT SHAITAN. and we all know who said this, and he was very mature.]

This quote is just childish. If you would like some western quotes about muslim leaders and nations let me know a few weeks in advance so that I can clear some space from my harddrive to be able to fit all that information. In fact maybe I'll print and mail it to you but I'm not sure how much it would cost me to mail a telephone book sized package to Iran.

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