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placid

What do we know about Jesus returning to earth?

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I think we all agree in the returning of Jesus to earth, and I wonder, what do we know about His coming and what will happen after He comes.

ShortOfDeeds gave some good verses about how He will come, (and I hope you don't mind if I print them as starters).

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Notice he writes “an everlasting dominion”. Only God could be described in this way. No wonder why Jesus was sent to Pilate. The only choices for the High Priest was fall down and worship God or send the “blasphemer” to Pilate.

There are other places the Bible speaks of this:

Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Placid

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Hello Placid,

I think when he came to the earth you will be shocked because he will invite you to religion of Muhammad " Islam " but in the final you will believe because you are not arrogant man ,that if you are alive when he came .

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Hi Yonus,

I am seriously interested in what is known about the return of Jesus.

Muslims believe that Jesus is coming, so, Yonus, what do you understand about His return?

Are there verses in the Quran that give info?

Placid

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Hi Placid, hope you're doing well.

Sura 4:157-159 states something about his appearance on the Day of Judgement.

Pickthal 4:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

[Pickthal 4:158] But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.

[Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

hope this helps

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Hi Yonus,

I am seriously interested in what is known about the return of Jesus.

Muslims believe that Jesus is coming, so, Yonus, what do you understand about His return?

Are there verses in the Quran that give info?

Placid

Hi placid ,

Did you hear any shiite or sunnite is counting the days waiting for Jesus christ ? According to shia yes they are waiting for Imam Mahdi who is their saviour wheather Jesus was with him or not .

May be Jesus Agenda will be for christians not muslims as he said : People who are in good health do not need a doctor .

Why are we waiting for Imam Mahdi ? We seek Justice ,they say in that time you will see the goat is walking side by side with the wolf . :D

Tell me Placid how is justice there in your country and west in general ,do you think they need imam mahdi and the promised justice ? Condaliza rise is carrying glad news for us " new middle east project ".

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Yonus,

I wonder if you can tell us who Imam Madhi was.

While I have seen the name a few times I don't know who he was or what Muslims claim about him.

I pray for a peaceful settlement to the present violence and especially for the Lebanese people. (Oh, that people will learn to live and let live in peace).

Placid

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Onelifeliveit,

Yes I am doing well, thank you.

Thanks for the verses from 4:157-159.

I59 says, ' And on the Day of Resurrection He will be a witness against them ---.

This identifies that Jesus will be there and will be in a position of authority to testify against 'them'. I guess the question could be asked, 'Who is it referring to'?

I like to put some verses together to identify that these are unbelieving Jews that rejected Jesus and called for His death.

2:72 says, 'And remember when ye slew a man and disagreed concerning it, and God brought forth that which you were hiding.

73. Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His portents so that you may understand.

74. Then, even after that, your hearts were hardened and became as rocks, or worse than rocks for hardness.'

4:159. 'There is not one of the People of the Scripture (meaning the Jews) but will believe in him before his death (because of all the portents, signs and miracles that took place on the day of His death. Three hours of darkness, the earthquake, the curtain in the temple being torn down from the top to the bottom, etc).

Yet they did not repent, but hardened their hearts and bribed the soldiers to lie.

'--- and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witnass against them.'

So 'them' refers to these offenders and not all Jews.

The Day of Resurrection agrees with the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46, and the reward and punishment is comparable to the various places they are mentioned in the Quran.

24:31. 'When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

32. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

33. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

34. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

35. For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;

36. I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me."

37. Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and gave You drink?

38. When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?

39. Or when did we see You sick, or in prison and come to You?"

40 And the King will answer and say to them, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me."

41. Then He will also say to those on His left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42. For I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;

43. I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me."

44. Then they also will answer Him, saying, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?"

45. Then He will answer them, saying, "Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."

46. And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'

This judgment seems to be based on 'heart attitude and action'. Someone said, 'Love is the act of caring'.

Placid

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Yonus,

I wonder if you can tell us who Imam Madhi was.

While I have seen the name a few times I don't know who he was or what Muslims claim about him.

I pray for a peaceful settlement to the present violence and especially for the Lebanese people. (Oh, that people will learn to live and let live in peace).

Placid

http://al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/index.htm

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[shakir 28:5] And We desired to bestow a favor upon those who were deemed weak in the land, and to make them the Imams, and to make them the heirs,

[Yusufali 28:5] And We wished to be Gracious to those who were being depressed in the land, to make them leaders (in Faith) and make them heirs,

[Pickthal 28:5] And We desired to show favour unto those who were oppressed in the earth, and to make them examples and to make them the inheritors,

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 28:5]

Imam Ali ibn abi Talib says in the Nahj al Balagha that "those who were deemed weak" refers to the Ahl ul Bayt.

When Imam Muhammad bin Hasan al-Mahdi would appear and Islam would be established in the whole world with his coming, the entire earth would be ruled by him and all disbelievers will vanish from the face of the earth (see commentary of Araf: 137).

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

This is a positive proof that Imams appointed by Allah come from those whom the world considered weak and poor. They do not belong to the arrogant and ignorant ruling class (see commentary of al Baqarah: 247).

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Hi Yonus,

That is a long read.

I find a lot of controversy between the Sunni and Shia opinions over the traditions.

However, this all comes from hadiths and tradition so it is somewhat indefinite.

It seems that you are saying above that the whole world will be ruled by the Madhi, so that may give rise to the thinking that Muslims need to force domination as they seem to do in some places. --- But this says it differently.

(Quote)

It is reported from Abu Hurayra that the Prophet said: "What will be your reaction when the son of Mary descends and your Imam is among yourselves?" [37]

There are a number of other traditions on a similar theme in these two compilations. It is also important to bear in mind that Ibn Khaldun has neither totally falsified all the traditions about the Mahdi, nor has he claimed that he does not accept them. The context of Ibn Khaldun's remark about these traditions is provided by his opening statement in this section when he says:

It has been well known (and generally accepted) by all Muslims in every epoch, that at the end of time a man from the family (of the Prophet) will without fail make his appearance, who will strengthen Islam and make justice triumph. Muslims will follow him, and he will gain domination over the Muslim realm. He will be called the Mahdi.

It is evident that he has briefly accepted the fact that the belief in the awaited Mahdi is common among Muslims. Moreover, after his critical evaluation of the traditions and their transmitters he concludes the discussion with the following observation:

This is the situation of the traditions about the awaited Mahdi. It has been seen in the books that, with the exception of very few, most of these traditions are regarded as unreliable.[38]

The above says some important things,

First: 'The Prophet said, "What will be your reaction when the son of Mary descends and your Imam is among yourselves?"

--- This says that the Imam will already be on earth and bringing peace among the Muslims. I have never found any indication in the Quran that Muhammad thought in terms of world domination.

Second: It seems there are many traditions and certain scholars cast doubt on many so I guess people believe the ones they want to believe.

Third: 'It is generally accepted by all that at the end of time, a man from the family of the Prophet will without fail make his appearance, who will strengthen Islam and make justice triumph. Muslims will follow him, and he will gain domination over the Muslim realm. He will be called the Mahdi.'

--- This seems to say that this man will become a leader of the Muslims and bring justice among them. Would this mean bringing harmony among the Shias and Sunnis as well as the Saudis and others in the Muslim realm? This would be good, would it not?

Fourth: This scholar, Ibn Khaldun, seems to have summed up that the waiting for the Mahdi is common among Muslims, but he makes this observation,

Fifth: That with the exception of a few, most of the traditions are unreliable.

It seems that his conclusion is, 'that there is general agreement among Muslims that the Mahdi will come (previous to Jesus' coming) and will bring peace and justice among Muslims, having domination over the Muslim realm.'

Do you agree with this? --- It is all new to me, but very interesting.

Placid

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I have to depart from the main line reasoning of my brothers and sisters.

I believe Jesus (as) passed way from this world as any normal human being.

His second return is relative to one who will be coloured w/ his spiritual qualities. Thus, a manifestation of Jesus (as) will occur but not the self same Israeli Messiah. I don't know the particulars of it since it is prophecy and prophecy is coded in metaphors.

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Hala Placid,

Here is another transulation for this hadith : The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "What would be your situation if the Son of Marry (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is among you?"

As you know we believe in 12 holy Imams and Mahdi is #12 who was in occulation since more than 1000 years . There is hadith in shia and sunni that Prophet [pbuh] spoke about 12 caliph all of them from quraish tribe ,however when we asked sunnis count them for us to know them but they couldn't because most are tyrannys or dictators .

But we can count them and all of them are pure and holys : Ali,Hassan,Hussein,Ali,Muhammad,Ja'afar,Mousa,Ali,Muhammad,Ali,Hassan and Muhammad who is called Mahdi . We believe they are sinless and pure imams . The concept of Imamate is based on the idea that there must be a living person who is a divine proof or demonstra­tion of the existence of God and a vehicle of divine guidance or practical means for carrying out God's sovereign will. It fits into the Shiite configuration of basic faith principles. First is the unity of God, followed by belief in divine justice.

Mother of Mahdi name is Narjis and she is from Rome " Rome means Turkey,greace and Italy " some of them says she was doughter of ........... till saint Peter . When father of Mahdi died , he was 6 years old ,so soldiers of that ruler followed him untill he entered a shelter ,but they didn't find him inside and when ruler asked them where he is they said he disappeared ,so we {shia} took this story from them .

We also don't agree to open the states by war like sunnis when they opened spain ,except with infallible holy Imam because Imam is doing the commands of Allah .

We also believe that shism is the origin of islam ,so when he came all sunnis become shia or they will return to Ahlul bait Family of the prophet because they almost forgot them as christians forgot monothesm unity of God not unity of trinity.

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Areef, you are one of the few people i have seen on here voicing that view besides myself. Indeed, the Qur'aan says that the Rusul before Muhammad died. Additionally, Ahadeeth speak of Jesus dying at the ripe old age of 120. There are many ways one can conceptualize his raja; one of which is entirely symbolic, though certainly there are other interpretations as well.

Shalom, Salaam, Shanti, Peace...

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I'm thinking this verse from the Quran does not refer to the end times.

[Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

Basically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection has this to say.

The term resurrection is used in the literal sense to mean either the religious concept of the reunion of the spirit and the body of a dead person, or the return to life of a dead person.

In this case the resurrection has already happened.

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Areef, you are one of the few people i have seen on here voicing that view besides myself. Indeed, the Qur'aan says that the Rusul before Muhammad died. Additionally, Ahadeeth speak of Jesus dying at the ripe old age of 120. There are many ways one can conceptualize his raja; one of which is entirely symbolic, though certainly there are other interpretations as well.

Thank you, Henq. This belief is my personal belief after examining the Holy Quran and Sunnah. 3:144 which you refer to is indicative of the death of the Messengers prior to the Holy Prophet (pbuh). What is more convincing is:

Sahih Bukhari, hadith #368

Suratul Anbiyah, ayah 34

Some Shia object saying that Hadith from Ahlu Sunna are not to be accepted by I am more liberal than them on this matter.

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I'm thinking this verse from the Quran does not refer to the end times.

[Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

Basically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection has this to say.

The term resurrection is used in the literal sense to mean either the religious concept of the reunion of the spirit and the body of a dead person, or the return to life of a dead person.

In this case the resurrection has already happened.

It dosn't not refer to the end of time ,it refers that the end of time is very close .

[Yusufali 43:61] And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

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Areef, you are one of the few people i have seen on here voicing that view besides myself. Indeed, the Qur'aan says that the Rusul before Muhammad died. Additionally, Ahadeeth speak of Jesus dying at the ripe old age of 120. There are many ways one can conceptualize his raja; one of which is entirely symbolic, though certainly there are other interpretations as well.

Shalom, Salaam, Shanti, Peace...

I find it hard to believe that Jesus would have lived to 120 yrs old without leaving a trail of prophesy and teachings. I would ask Ahadeeth, how old is Elvis now?

It dosn't not refer to the end of time ,it refers that the end of time is very close .

[Yusufali 43:61] And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

Other than skipping over the double negative, it is true, Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly".

Well, that quickly didn't happen in the last 2000 yrs, so I expect it means...

At the time when I come back, I will come quickly, as in you won't be standing there saying, Hmm, What's that in the sky? It just keeps getting closer.

Think you missed my whole point tho.

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I find it hard to believe that Jesus would have lived to 120 yrs old without leaving a trail of prophesy and teachings. I would ask Ahadeeth, how old is Elvis now?

Other than skipping over the double negative, it is true, Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly".

Well, that quickly didn't happen in the last 2000 yrs, so I expect it means...

At the time when I come back, I will come quickly, as in you won't be standing there saying, Hmm, What's that in the sky? It just keeps getting closer.

Think you missed my whole point tho.

The important point my dear is that there is promise from Allah :

Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

Now we have Turkey which was capital of christianity and posnia ,so I am wondering how many christian states when he came ?

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The important point my dear is that there is promise from Allah :

Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

As stated in my previous post,

The term resurrection is used in the literal sense to mean either the religious concept of the reunion of the spirit and the body of a dead person, or the return to life of a dead person.

Considering that "The people of the scripture" at that time only had the OT. Now we have the NT, and the Quran, and if you notice, "We" people of the scripture DO believe. His witness was against "them" as he revealed himself to his disciples after that time, and before his ascension. His day of resurrection was three days after his death.

His speech to his disciples included telling them He would return again.

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Hey, Son of Placid, you are right.

Pickthal 4:159] There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them -

Shakir says, 'There is none but will 'believe in this' before his death'.

Sher Ali says, 'There is none but will continue to 'believe in it' before his death'.

On the day of His death there was the three hours of darkness from noon to 3:00, then the earthquake, and the veil or curtain in the temple was torn down from the top to the bottom, to open the Holy of Holies.

So all people who knew the Scriptures would surely believe 'in Him' or 'in this' or 'in it' before He died.

While I was taking the long view of the Day of Judgment, it does say 'on the Day of Resurrection' He will be a witness against them.

As the Scripture says repeatedly that Jesus said, 'I will go to Jerusalem and be delivered into the hands of men and be killed, and after three days rise again.'

He said to the Pharisees, 'Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up'.

When they asked for a sign of who He was, He said, 'There shall be no sign given except that of the Prophet Jonah; for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of the whale, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth'.

Yes, you're right, --- after Jesus rose from the tomb He was a witness against every plot against Him and a witness against those who bribed the soldiers to lie about him rising from the dead.

You are right also that they didn't kill Him literally because 'He gave up His spirit'.

In John 10:17. 'Therefore My Father loves Me because I lay down My life that I might take it again.

18. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father'.

Surah 5:117, Jesus says, 'I spake unto them only that which Thou commandest me, saying: Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.'

In both Shakir and Sher Ali it says, 'when You caused Me to die.'

This all coincides with his last words from the cross. He said, "It is finished". Then He said, "Father, into your hands I commend My spirit; and having said thus He gave up His spirit."

Placid

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Hi Heng,

Sorry to be slow in responding to Post 12

(Quote)

"Son of Man" or "Ben Adam" is a Hebrew phrase meaning "Human being" it is found in just about any Hebrew dictionary or 101 text.

This was taken from Matthew 31, 'When the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.'

Jesus often referred to Himself as the Son of Man and it means 'human' or of 'humanity'. As He taught the disciples and anyone listening, He would identify with them, but would go beyond that in His prophecy. Notice, He says, Then He will sit on the throne of His glory' --- a king sits on a throne. --- notice verse 34, 'Then the King will say to those on His right hand.'

When He said Son of Man He referred to his humanity, He was human, but born of a virgin.

When He said Son of God, is He not then referring to His divinity, because Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit of God, therefore 'of God'?

Many called Him the Son of God including Gabriel who announced to Mary, 'That Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. (Was that not the same Gabriel who appeared to Muhammad?)

Satan said, 'If you are the Son of God' ---

The demons said, 'What have we to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God?'

Matt 16:13. 'When He asked the disciples, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

16. And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

17. Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.'

God said, 'This is My beloved Son'

The high priest said, 'Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God'

Jesus said to them, 'It is as you said.'

And Jesus said in John 10:36. 'Do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, --- "You are blaspheming" --- because I said, I am the Son of God?'

John 9 records the healing of a man blind from birth. The Pharisees cast him out of the temple because of his testimony,

35. 'Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?"

36. He answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?'

37. And Jesus said to him, You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you."

The Amplified Bible defines this part of verse 35, 'Do you believe in the Son of man --- the Son of God?', using both terms.

Placid

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As stated in my previous post,

The term resurrection is used in the literal sense to mean either the religious concept of the reunion of the spirit and the body of a dead person, or the return to life of a dead person.

Considering that "The people of the scripture" at that time only had the OT. Now we have the NT, and the Quran, and if you notice, "We" people of the scripture DO believe. His witness was against "them" as he revealed himself to his disciples after that time, and before his ascension. His day of resurrection was three days after his death.

His speech to his disciples included telling them He would return again.

Do you admit that Quran is the last testament ? If yes ,then you have to know that Jesus christ is not responsible of us , and he will be a witness for you only . The witness on the all nation is Muhammad only.

[Pickthal 4:41] But how (will it be with them) when We bring of every people a witness, and We bring thee (O Muhammad) a witness against these?

[Pickthal 4:42] On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the messenger will wish that they were level with the ground, and they can hide no fact from Allah.

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Do you admit that Quran is the last testament ? If yes ,then you have to know that Jesus christ is not responsible of us , and he will be a witness for you only . The witness on the all nation is Muhammad only.

[Pickthal 4:41] But how (will it be with them) when We bring of every people a witness, and We bring thee (O Muhammad) a witness against these?

[Pickthal 4:42] On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the messenger will wish that they were level with the ground, and they can hide no fact from Allah.

You are deviating from my point, but to answer you I will say this.

Jesus is NOT responsible for anybody. We have a responsibility to Him. He will be our witness on the day of Judgement. There have been many messengers, why is this job now only given to Muhammad? Those who dies following Jesus in the years since Muhammad lived are where?

I will agree that the Quran is the last Testement when you agree that there is a parallel between the Divine inspiration given to the NT, and the Quran. Muhammad himself said to read the NT for guidance and light. He also said we worship the same God. If your Testament, and mine are both divinely inspired then it is your responsibility to read all the scriptures, as it is mine. It is also our responsibility to understand how OUR scriptures align as opposed to contradicting each other.

More later, getting rushed out the door.

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You are deviating from my point, but to answer you I will say this.

Jesus is NOT responsible for anybody. We have a responsibility to Him. He will be our witness on the day of Judgement. There have been many messengers, why is this job now only given to Muhammad? Those who dies following Jesus in the years since Muhammad lived are where?

I will agree that the Quran is the last Testement when you agree that there is a parallel between the Divine inspiration given to the NT, and the Quran. Muhammad himself said to read the NT for guidance and light. He also said we worship the same God. If your Testament, and mine are both divinely inspired then it is your responsibility to read all the scriptures, as it is mine. It is also our responsibility to understand how OUR scriptures align as opposed to contradicting each other.

More later, getting rushed out the door.

There have been many messengers, why is this job now only given to Muhammad? Those who dies following Jesus in the years since Muhammad lived are where?

Muhammad will be a witness on the messengers including Jesus christ because As you know that there is a head or leader for every thing ,Angels ,Jin and mankind so the leader and best creature of all creatures is prophet Muhammad {pbuh} and his message is the global one " Religion before Allah is Islam ".

Jesus will be a witness for the time that he stayed with his people after that Allah will be the witness :

Pickthal 5:117] I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

He will be awitness in the second comming only whe all become muslims .

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Of course Muhammad wants us to read OT and NT .We sometimes read fictions of shakespeare and victor hugo ,we even read the books of Ahlulbeit enemies like praise Mua'awihah or Yazid .

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Yonus,

Seems to me you are slipping away from what the general understanding of Muslims is

(quote from the link you gave me)

'It is generally accepted by all that at the end of time, a man from the family of the Prophet will without fail make his appearance, who will strengthen Islam and make justice triumph. Muslims will follow him, and he will gain domination over the Muslim realm. He will be called the Mahdi.'

As stated before, this general belief does not invlove the whole world, but just the Muslim realm.

As quoted before, Muhammad had said, 'What if the son of Mary came and found the Madhi in your midst.'

Does this not mean that the expected Madhi will be one to bring the people together to faith in God and unity and justice before Jesus comes?

Bottom of Post 15, you said,

'When he comes all Sunnis become Shias, or they will return to Ahlul bait Family of the Prophet. --- What does that mean?

Placid

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Hello Placid,

Jesus' (as) stay on earth was terminated right before the enemies of Jesus (as) made a plot to kill him, Almighty God caused Jesus (as) to ascend unto him, this happened after Jesus (as) prayed for the cup of death to be removed from him if God could but asked whatever be the wish of God must be fulfilled, you can check this in Gospels, so he was ascended.

But on Sunday the day after Sabbath Jesus (as) was seen by his diciples and Jesus (as) asked his diciples to carry on his mission and prepare the way for Comforter ( by giving Good News) He informed them about his second comming and then finally the actual cease from his earthly life took place.

Now, just before ressurrection he will descend on earth, accompain Imam Mahdi (as) in his mission to establish Islam on earth, people ( true Christians) will believe in him and also give up the Pauline idea of crucification, Aamiin.

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Now, just before ressurrection he will descend on earth, accompain Imam Mahdi (as) in his mission to establish Islam on earth, people ( true Christians) will believe in him and also give up the Pauline idea of crucification, Aamiin.

The Quran states that crucifixion was performed in ancient Egypt.

O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: and as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which you both did enquire. [12:41]

It is a well known scientific and archeological FACT, that this method of punishement wasn't introduced until much later than that. In fact, the earliest record or reference to crucifixion was 519 BC. There is ZERO material pointing to crucifixion in Egypt.

But I guess Paul made it all up also! However, you say that Paul made it all up, yet your own Quran says that Allah made it appear that Jesus was on the cross, but is was someone else. If this is the case, what exactly did Paul make up? To him, it would appear as though Jesus WAS on the cross. So who's the liar?

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The Quran states that crucifixion was performed in ancient Egypt.

O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: and as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which you both did enquire. [12:41]

It is a well known scientific and archeological FACT, that this method of punishement wasn't introduced until much later than that. In fact, the earliest record or reference to crucifixion was 519 BC. There is ZERO material pointing to crucifixion in Egypt.

But I guess Paul made it all up also! However, you say that Paul made it all up, yet your own Quran says that Allah made it appear that Jesus was on the cross, but is was someone else. If this is the case, what exactly did Paul make up? To him, it would appear as though Jesus WAS on the cross. So who's the liar?

Try to grasp the meaning, I knew that crucification as mean of torture and death sentence existed since ancient time, I also know that crucification was carried but not on Jesus (as).

What I meant by Pauline idea was that Paul invented all the belief that blood of Chist on cross is redemption from eternal sin and that Jesus as son of God died on the cross for all humanity, I meant when Jesus (as) returns to earth people in truth will give up the idea that the blood shed on the cross was of son of God and also that it was a penalty for eternal sin, understood?

Pauline tranformation of crucification from a symbol of torture to symbol of salvation would be given up, hope now you understood it.

Edited by Mazher's

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Hello Placid,

Jesus' (as) stay on earth was terminated right before the enemies of Jesus (as) made a plot to kill him, Almighty God caused Jesus (as) to ascend unto him, this happened after Jesus (as) prayed for the cup of death to be removed from him if God could but asked whatever be the wish of God must be fulfilled, you can check this in Gospels, so he was ascended.

But on Sunday the day after Sabbath Jesus (as) was seen by his diciples and Jesus (as) asked his diciples to carry on his mission and prepare the way for Comforter ( by giving Good News) He informed them about his second comming and then finally the actual cease from his earthly life took place.

Now, just before ressurrection he will descend on earth, accompain Imam Mahdi (as) in his mission to establish Islam on earth, people ( true Christians) will believe in him and also give up the Pauline idea of crucification, Aamiin.

Sure would be good if you had something solid to back these statements up.

This is yet another variation of what Muslims say happened. I think this is the "pursuit of a conjecture" written in your most famous anti-Christian verse.

Yonus Muhammad encouraged you to read Shakespeare?

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Yonus,

Seems to me you are slipping away from what the general understanding of Muslims is

(quote from the link you gave me)

'It is generally accepted by all that at the end of time, a man from the family of the Prophet will without fail make his appearance, who will strengthen Islam and make justice triumph. Muslims will follow him, and he will gain domination over the Muslim realm. He will be called the Mahdi.'

As stated before, this general belief does not invlove the whole world, but just the Muslim realm.

As quoted before, Muhammad had said, 'What if the son of Mary came and found the Madhi in your midst.'

Does this not mean that the expected Madhi will be one to bring the people together to faith in God and unity and justice before Jesus comes?

Bottom of Post 15, you said,

'When he comes all Sunnis become Shias, or they will return to Ahlul bait Family of the Prophet. --- What does that mean?

Placid

Ok Placid ,

First of all you have to know that there is different between verses of holy quran and verses of holy bible . Interpretation of quran is a verse by averse ,statement by statement because some verses were kept in the similars ones for example :

[Pickthal 5:3] Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

If you read it carefully you would see something different not belong to the verse ,but it is kept inside : This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam.

Interpretation : Please refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 173 for carrion (corpse of a dead animal), blood flesh of swine, and that over which is invoked the name a ghayrallah (other than Allah). Also forbidden are the strangled, the beaten down, the fallen down, the gored, that which has been devoured by beasts of prey, and that which has been slaughtered at altars; and also dividing the meat by casting lots with arrows is forbidden.

Illa ma dhakkaytun-tadhkiyah means to cleanse (allowing the heat in the body to pass away through the Islamic way of slaughter).

From this day till Islam alyawm to Islama dina was revealed when the Holy Prophet announced at Ghadir Khum: "Of whomsoever I am the mawla (master) Ali is his mawla (master)". Please study the event of Ghadir Khum in the commentary of verse 67 of this surah.

Ahmad bin Hanbal, the founder of Hanbali sect, writes in his Musnad that a Jew had told the second caliph: "If there were a similar declaration in the Pentateuch, the Jews would have celebrated the day as a great festival."

This verse is also a clear testimony to the perfection of the religion of Islam. Please refer to the commentary of al Fatihah: 7.

Allah has completed and perfected Islam only when, under His command (Ma-idah: 67), the Holy Prophet had announced the imamat of Ali after the termination of risalat-he being the last messenger of Allah. Fakhruddin Razi has said that the Holy Prophet died 81 or 82 days after the revelation of this verse. All authorities agree that no law-giving verse was revealed after this verse. So without believing in Ali as the immediate successor of the Holy Prophet, according to this verse, the faith is neither complete nor perfect. The institution of imamat is necessary to keep intact the final word of Allah (the Quran) and to guide mankind unto the right path till the day of resurrection.

As verse 67 of this surah is inevitably connected with this verse, please study its commentary very carefully. To avoid repetition, all the historical, logical and rational arguments with authentic references pertaining to the imamah of Ali and his descendants mentioned in verse 67 of this surah have not been related here. This verse should be read as an immediate corollary of verse 67 of this surah.

This fact stands confirmed by a large number of non-Shia scholars, therefore, if any tradition contrary to this fact is narrated by Bukhari and Muslim, based upon diplomacy and political pressures, should be reviewed in the light of the bias and hostility they, and men like them, display whenever they deal with the merits of the Ahl ul Bayt. Please refer to Peshawar Nights, a well-known book published by Peermahomed Ebrahim Trust and Zahra Publications.

In the first verse of this surah it is said: "Verily Allah commands whatsoever He intends". So there is no sense in questioning the will of Allah if He intermingles various issues in any chapter, or in one verse, or two closely connected verses, or passages are placed away from each other. This arrangement was made by the Holy Prophet in his own lifetime. Please refer to "Genuineness of the Quran" (by Aqa Mahdi Puya) in this book

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Sure would be good if you had something solid to back these statements up.

This is yet another variation of what Muslims say happened. I think this is the "pursuit of a conjecture" written in your most famous anti-Christian verse.

Yonus Muhammad encouraged you to read Shakespeare?

The first Ayah in quran is " IQRA" Read .

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