Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Muslim Gays marrying lesbians

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
I think it is acceptable if someone has a sham marriage but doesn't have sex outside of marriage, basically lives a life without sex. I reckon they will eventually become straight and start to love their wives.

Great.

All we need to prove this theory is to let you live with a man and see if you will eventually become gay and start to love that man.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 74
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I think it is acceptable if someone has a sham marriage but doesn't have sex outside of marriage, basically lives a life without sex. I reckon they will eventually become straight and start to love th

Yes sex-change operations are legal in Iran but they are intended for transsexuals not gays.

We must understand that there are three types which fit into this catagory. The first type are men who are muslim, and attracted to other men, for some reason (we won't go into reasons here) and keep

Could you pls prove what you said about Sayid Khomeini, I think you spoke from your rear end.

You may have meant gender corrective surgery, it is when the reproductive organs are uncomplete from birth onwards when a girl or boy is not born with fully developed genital area as such as not visually able to verify the gender if male or female. These persons are wrongly labelled as half boy half girl or very unkindly as "khusrah or hijrah" in south asia but this is not the case atall - there is no such a thing as half boy half girl, it is really uncomplete male or uncomplete female therefore surgery to correct the gender is required and is thus halaal. Infact so many people suffer from this in silence and do not marry as a result. A person born like this you can never tell by the face they look totally masculine or feminine because this is what they are either this or that.

Or What I think you may be getting at is eunichs - self made changers -people who mutilate their gender by knife or drugs, they are the real khusrahs be it a man or woman - without reason to change your God gifted is a big sin - one has no right - they may physically do what is in their means or with technology abused, but their nafs wil still be what Allah created them - male or female. Pkease note Allah has not created the so called half male female - this is a v misleading typical oldfashioned thoughs - it is either an underdeveloped male or female and these people do need medical help. Khusrahs the self abusers - eq men who castrate themselves and act like women or women being like men by having drugs to change..........these sick minded burdens on earth need to be taught or punished.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Hawra:

Trannsexuality is a diagnosed mental disorder in which a person identifies as a man or as a woman but has the outward physical appearance of the opposite sex. It as often accompanied by some physical anomoly- (for instance "women" who identify as men, and who when tested turn out to have undeveloped testes, etc.).

Even when strong physical abnormailities are not present, transsexuals show brain patterns consistent with those of the opposite physical sex. I had to study it in psych class.

ONLY transsexuality is to be treated with a sex-change operation under Khomeini's fatwa, and people who apply for surgery must be carefully tested before they are permitted to have any operations, so that people who are merely homosexual or have some mild gender confusion (weakness, effeminacy in men, etc.) don't end up having the operation (which they would ultimately regret, anyhow). If you're really so concerned about the issue, google it; I'm sure you can find the fatwa online; I've come across articles about it (which quote from it) several times on the net, as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam,

I didnt know the difference between homosexuality/lesbians and transgender until I seen this show on TV. I felt really sorry for those kids who was sad that they are being trapped in the wrong body. Some of them even realised this since a very young age (2 years old)

in most cases, these transgenders ended up commiting suicide because of the pressures from their environment. (people not accepting them)

so I was sad for them because I thought they are not recognized even in Islam so they just gonna go straight to hell.. but then my hubby told me that Ayatollah Khamenei allows sex change.. that relieved me.. lol

as for the homos and lesbians..i just hope they die.. :Hijabi:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Salam,

I didnt know the difference between homosexuality/lesbians and transgender until I seen this show on TV. I felt really sorry for those kids who was sad that they are being trapped in the wrong body. Some of them even realised this since a very young age (2 years old)

in most cases, these transgenders ended up commiting suicide because of the pressures from their environment. (people not accepting them)

so I was sad for them because I thought they are not recognized even in Islam so they just gonna go straight to hell.. but then my hubby told me that Ayatollah Khamenei allows sex change.. that relieved me.. lol

as for the homos and lesbians..i just hope they die.. :Hijabi:

Doesn't he just allow sex changes for people born with both male and female sexual parts?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salaam.

There is no such thing as half boy and half girl. If a male or female is born uncomplete visually and accidently mistaken at the time of birth as the opposit gender which happens alot then that poor person obviously will feel trapped in the wrong body or more correctly, wrong identified or labelled.

And as for the homosexuals and eunits, may God see to them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

sorry i forgot... about trans.... an eq; if a person has a mental illness in which he or she thinks that his healthy leg needs cutting off should a genuine doctor do it? I have seen a programme of a young lady in her mid 20's begging docs to amputate her leg for 3-4 years now.... all nhs doctors refused as it was said to be unethical. Thus what is the difference in this case. I mean if there is a mental illess do you treat the brain or the leg. Say after a few years the young lady recovered from her mind disorder and gets shocked to see her leg gone for no reason who should she blame?

I feel that if a person is mentally thinking that he or she is of the opposit gender and after medical research it is confirmed that the person is right then pls help the poor person and do some ops however if this is not the case and the person actually is as seen then rather than changing the poor persons structre I feel a wise person would say TREAT THE BRAIN.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

i dun even get it y owuld they be gay i know theyre not born with it...they just choose to be gay...or lez w.e rite? they cant be born wit it bah some ppl say that they are...?? but i duno but i heard its a sign of qayamat? im not sure...i jus heard that.....?? is that rite?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Yes, but that is not fair to the wife. Since she can only meet her need thru her husband, how is she going to have her need met in a halal way?

Well, if she were a lesbian, and he was homosexual, wouldn't it be more accurate to say it was unfair to the both of them, seeing as neither would be attracted to the other?

Also, the sexual instinct is too strong, I don't think he or she could go thru their entire lives without doing haram, unless there is some sort of medical issue that prevents them from having 'urges'.

Imam Khomeni(r.a.) used to allow these people to have sex change operations. If he is really attracted to men, and a 'pious' muslim, let him become a 'she' and marry in the halal way rather than live a risky, haram lifestyle.

sexuality is separate from gender identity. sex change operations are ok in Iran and a few other Muslim countries as well-- but for the transgendered. However, if you read up on transgendered people, you'll also find a variety of sexualities within the population. Example-- a male-to-female transsexual may be attracted to females or males. It really has little to do with the other in this sense.

However, it is interesting to note that the issue of the transgendered does in fact bring about some questions about sexuality which are so far left unanswered within the context of islamic law. A prime question that is yet to be adressed is this:

Say, for example, a male-to-female transgendered person is attracted to males only. So does this in fact mean that when this person was "male" he had a "haram sexuality" because he was attracted to other men? Does having said sex change now mean that suddenly her sexuality is now "halal"? What about if the attraction were the reverse, where he was a heterosexual male who was atteacted to females, but had a sex change to become a female. So far, islamic law would claim she is now a lesbian, and her sexual orientation would be haram.

I doubt we'll be getting a whole corpus of literature on the subject matter in our lifetime, but there are one or two specialist scholars in Iran and elsewhere who are delving into the legal possibilities and interpretations in regards to the transgendered.

These people from Al Fatiha and other organizations are nothing but spreaders of Fitna, just like the Wahabis :mad:

This group tried to open an office here in Dearborn about 2 years ago. It was firebombed the first week it was open. NOTE to law enforcement personell evesdropping on these posts, I had nothing to do with this incident, and no, I don't know anyone who claimed to have anything to do with it.

no comment. I think our ummah is notorious for ignoring the fact that there are gays and lesbians in the Muslim population, and even hating them more than say, a rapist or murderer-- which is something I personally don't understand. So, in terms of social tradition, I don't quite agree, although I doubt there's much leniency when it comes to actual fique....

As for the firebombing, I hadn't heard about that. Definetly illegal in action, and a bit hypocritical of those who did so, too. We Muslims whine so much about how we're mistreated by other people and when our mesjids are vandalized, it's a bit ironic to see "us" (ok, not US, but you know what I mean) doing pretty much the same thing. Personally, I say if it bothers you, then don't associate.

regards,

Leila

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
Great.

All we need to prove this theory is to let you live with a man and see if you will eventually become gay and start to love that man.

Actually, no. He came to that conclusion based on the premise that male-female relationships are natural and that homosexual relationships are unnatural.

wasalaam

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Muntuthra-Alnasr

(bismillah)

(salam)

Based on my own studies, there are some cases where a mess up in genes occur during conception, and a child gets two female genes instead of one female one male. However scientifically no matter how much female you have, if you have one male you get the male body.

The regular male gets one female and one male, the regular female gets two female. When the mess up of getting one male and two females occurs, the boy ends up with alot of girl hormones, thoughts etc. However is still seen as a regular male.

This happens in rare occasions, but it in no way is his fault, therefore an operation is allowed.

Wasalam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...
  • Advanced Member
Found this on beliefnet:

http://beliefnet.com/story/193/story_19350_1.html

NEW YORK--On a Web site for gay South Asians, 27-year-old Syed Mansoor uploaded the following message last summer:

"Hi, I am looking for a lesbian girl for marriage. I am gay but I would like to get married because of pressure from parents and society. I would like this marriage to be a `normal' marriage except for the sex part, please don't expect any sexual relationship from me.

" Being an Indian gay person, I believe it is so much worth it to give up sex and have a nice otherwise normal family. We can be good friends and don't have to repent all our life for being gay/lesbian. "

Across the globe and especially in America, hundreds of other gay Muslims have started to pursue marriages of convenience -- or MOC, as they are known -- in which gay Muslims seek out lesbian Muslims, and vice versa, for appearances sake.

Mansoor works as an accountant and is a devout Muslim. He strictly abstains from drinking alcohol or eating pork and is particular about offering early-morning prayers.

To his friends on Wall Street, he is a financial whiz; to his parents, a devoted son. But Mansoor is also part of a burgeoning trend of gay Muslims adopting marriages of convenience.

Hard statistics on the trend are hard to come by, but on a single Web site for South Asian gays and lesbians seeking such marriages, almost 400 requests had been uploaded.

They ranged from a desperate plea from Atlanta -- "I just finished medical school, and the pressure for me to get married is becoming ridiculous. I can't have a conversation with my parents without them pressuring me" -- to a straightforward one from Texas: "I will not object to her having sex with other women."

Mansoor credits the Internet for making these marriages a real possibility for gay Muslims. Gay activists agree, and say that in recent years, they have seen a rise in such marriages among Muslims.

Jack Fertig, a co-coordinator for Al Fatiha, a national advocacy group for gay Muslims, says he comes across at least one such e-mail request every month.

"It's obvious that this is becoming a viable option," he said. "People are seeking, looking and trying to make connections that could develop into such marriages."

Other activists say gay Muslims are resorting to these unions for reasons of self-preservation.

"Marriages of convenience are the result of gay Muslims wanting to avoid emotional and physical harm to themselves," says Muhammed Ali, a board member of Homan, a Los Angeles-based support group for gay Iranians.

Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in much of the Islamic world. In Iran last year, two gay teenagers were publicly executed, while in Afghanistan, the Taliban government would torture homosexuals by collapsing walls on them.

There is one Question need to ask to that "So called Syed" that are you muslim?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
There is one Question need to ask to that "So called Syed" that are you muslim?

We must understand that there are three types which fit into this catagory. The first type are men who are muslim, and attracted to other men, for some reason (we won't go into reasons here) and keep this to themselves and never act on it. They may be married w/ a very much less than normal sex life, or they may be single. The first catagory are muslim and have a very difficult test in life, but they are not fasiq(sinners) until they act on this inclination that they have.

The second type are muslims who act on this urge and sleep or have inappropriate physical relations with other men in secret. They are fasiq(sinners) just like anyone who does other types of major sins like drinking alchohol, gambling, earning money thru haram ways, or doing zina. They are fasiq but are still muslims and maybe their is hope that in the future they will ask Allah(s.w.a) for forgiveness and change their behaviour.

The third catagory are those who openly advocate for the 'gay muslim' lifestyle. These are people like the Jack Fetig and others mentioned in the article who run associations and advocacy groups for this.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DESERVE OUR ANGER, RAGE, AND PROTEST, AND ALSO THE CURSE OF Allah(s.w.a)

They are laeen, bida, fitna mongers who are actively trying to destroy the religion of Islam.

Whether these people are gay themselves or not doesn't make much difference to me since the sin that they are doing by creating corruption and fasad amoung the ummah is much more of a high crime compared to practicing homosexuality(although this itself is a big sin). We should use all lawful means to stop these people in their tracks and make sure that we know who they are and are aware of their activities. These people came to Dearborn and tried to set up and office. They were dealt with by the brs here after Sayyid Qazwini exposed their plot in his Friday Khutbah.

I am not advocating violence against them, and whatever violence we could inflict on them is trivial compared to what will happen to them in the grave and on the Khiyamat unless they repent and change their ways.

So we should use all lawful means to destroy their plots against the ummah. This is our duty under Amr bil Maroof wa Nahiy al Munkhar.

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salaam Alaykum

This is a shame and disgrace to Islam. EXECUTE THEM!

Whoa, don't you think that is going a little too far? If they are spreading chaos and murdering people without a valid reason, then fine. But not because they're gay. The Qur'an says:

"...If anyone kills a person, unless it be because he was murdering others or spreading chaos, it would be as if he killed all of mankind" (I.E., a bad thing) (Qur'an 5:32).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
None of you are showing proof of such thing. Can someone please provide evidence, insted of telling us things they've heard about.

WS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stm

On topic: It's simple, if you're gay, you're not a muslim. Also, I find it annoying when homosexuals argue that it's not their choice and they have no problem, homosexuality has to be one of the two.

If a gay person is not gay by choice, then he has a retardation as he is not able to reproduce, which is one of the main functions of humans and any biological matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Prove that being gay nullifies your belief in tawheed and the prophethood, and makes you non-muslim.

Isn't following the Quran one of the requirements of being a muslim? When the Quran explicitly condemns homosexuality, and then a "muslim" ignores that goes on with his homosexual acts, I would think that's grounds for being labelled a non muslim, even if you believe in tawheed and prophethood.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Homosexual urges are not sin, nor is self-identification as gay. Same-gender sexual acts are a sin and can be punished in Islamic courts if proven.

So if a person is gay and abstains from sex, he or she can be a good Muslim.

That's true, but how many homosexuals are there that abstain from intercourse? If I was to ever bet, I would bet that most homosexuals who identify themselves as "muslim" have been involved with or had/have intentions of having intercourse with another man. Infact, isn't the act of homosexuality defined by intercourse with another man?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
^I'm no expert on homosexuality, but I believe self-identification, not sexual acts, are what define a person (man or woman) as homosexual.

To me, a homosexual is one who commits the act of homosexuality, which is mainly intercourse with a person of the same sex, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

I also think that if we are going to condemn these sinners, we also have to condemn those who engage in premarital sex or use of alcohol just as vehemently. There is enjoining good and forbidding evil, and then there is plain and simple hatred, which is unislamic.

Don't know about other people, but I put all those, along with gambling and adultery, in the same column as homosexuality, it is all against the word of god.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Isn't following the Quran one of the requirements of being a muslim? When the Quran explicitly condemns homosexuality, and then a "muslim" ignores that goes on with his homosexual acts, I would think that's grounds for being labelled a non muslim, even if you believe in tawheed and prophethood.

Tell me, how many muslims are able to follow the quran to the letter and not sin? I know muslims who drink/smoke weed and pray. Bad muslims, sure. Non-muslims, not for me to judge. Not believing in the revelation makes you a non-muslim, not following it makes you a bad muslim. And if these gays didn't believe in the revelation they would not identify themselves as muslims to being with. How are you privy to what lies in their heart?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Turing was a remarkable personality, but it's a bit of a stretch to say my computer and it's software was developed by him and other sodomites. And this means nothing. Einstien and von Neumann were well known philanderers, does that make it ok? This has nothing to do with gays capable of being productive members of society, its about homosexuality being a sin.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Tell me, how many muslims are able to follow the quran to the letter and not sin? I know muslims who drink/smoke weed and pray. Bad muslims, sure. Non-muslims, not for me to judge. Not believing in the revelation makes you a non-muslim, not following it makes you a bad muslim. And if these gays didn't believe in the revelation they would not identify themselves as muslims to being with. How are you privy to what lies in their heart?

Ok but all the sins listed in the Quran aren't of equal value, would you be able to tell me with a straight face that eating haraam or drinking alcohol deserves equal punishment to someone murdering an innocent pious muslim?

As to them identifying themselves as muslims, sure they can do that, but remember, Al Qaeda, Taliban and many other of those organizations also identify themselves as muslims yet they break almost every rule listed by the Quran. Personally, I don't care as to what lies in their heart, unless they repent, they are still committing a major sin which is against the word, but it's not in my place to judge them, they will in the end answer to Allah.

Sura 4 19:21

And if two (men) of you commit it (adultery), then hurt them both; but if they turn again and amend, leave them alone, verily, God is easily turned, compassionate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Turing was a remarkable personality, but it's a bit of a stretch to say my computer and it's software was developed by him and other sodomites. And this means nothing. Einstien and von Neumann were well known philanderers, does that make it ok? This has nothing to do with gays capable of being productive members of society, its about homosexuality being a sin.

There are very murderously homophobic comments all over this thread (e.g. "execute them", etc) Ignorant people are eager to shun homosexuals while using their labor for their benefit.

Ever worked in the software industry before? It's definitely not run by clerics.

In any case, a sodomite probably had something to do with the millions of lines of code that goes into computer software (and the browser you're viewing this hateful thread in as well)

To add insult to injury, it was probably put together by an atheist in Taiwan.

But yes, let's kill all the atheist homosexuals! Hooray!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Ok but all the sins listed in the Quran aren't of equal value, would you be able to tell me with a straight face that eating haraam or drinking alcohol deserves equal punishment to someone murdering an innocent pious muslim?

As to them identifying themselves as muslims, sure they can do that, but remember, Al Qaeda, Taliban and many other of those organizations also identify themselves as muslims yet they break almost every rule listed by the Quran. Personally, I don't care as to what lies in their heart, unless they repent, they are still committing a major sin which is against the word, but it's not in my place to judge them, they will in the end answer to Allah.

Sura 4 19:21

And if two (men) of you commit it (adultery), then hurt them both; but if they turn again and amend, leave them alone, verily, God is easily turned, compassionate.

I agree they are committing a sin, but I still don't see how it qualifies them as non-muslims. No, not all sins are equal in punishment but you are drawing the line between muslims and non-muslims arbitrarily based on sins, not on beliefs.

Sorry if I come off as a bit pedantic here, but it upsets me when shias complain about takfeeri sunnis but are all too liberal in being takfeeris themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...