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fatemeh_hadidian

testing virginity of girls for marriage

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asalaamu alaikum

If you look at it historically this hysteria over a intact hymen only began when humanity started to raise their own food, herd animals and own land...becos it was important for the father to know who was his legitimate heir to pass his land, cattle and wealth on to.

In societies which traditionally dont care much for passing on family wealth or which are hunter/gatherer societies.. then promiscuity in women like men is considered unimportant...

So basically its a old fashioned concept which any semi-intelligent human being today ought to know a intact hymen no way can assure the potential "groom" that his wife is a virgin...but ancient beliefs die hard...

fi aman Allah

Bailey

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(bismillah)

(salam)

virginity can be important for somepeoples for marriage.

but this importance never allows to families to testing it for girls specially when it done by groom families :huh: :o .

few days ago this act was attacked by WOMAN-COMMITEE in iran, bcuz still it is respectful formality in iran and some few countries.....

how do u judge about this impertinence.....?! :angry:

ELTEMASE DUA

fatemeh

Asalaamu alaikum,

This impertinence is not right. It is in fact Wajib upon the girl to inform the man if she is not a virgin and/or if her hymen is not in tact, as these are what are to be expected from a virgin girl. As such, it is Wajib on the man to trust her, because if they do not even trust each other, they should not be marrying each other.

(salam)

I dont think there is a definitive virginity test - the groom will have to trust the word of the bride as the bride will have to trust the word of the groom :D

There are no definitive virginity tests, although some medical ones can come fairly close to being definitive. However, there are definitive hymen tests, and that would become fairly obvious to the groom once he consummates the marriage with his wife, or even before such. Before the marriage, however, he is to trust her at her word. He also has the right do demand someone with their hymen in tact, if that is his preference. Of course, not having a hymen does not confirm that one is not a virgin, but it does indicate a great likelihood of either greater fornication with a man, greater fornication with themselves (masturbation, etc.), or lesser fornication with themselves (tampons, etc.). However, even though it is forbidden for them to engage in any of the acts which would endanger their private parts (in this case, their hymen, the guard over their private parts created by Allah (swt)), it is also forbidden for anyone to suspect them of greater fornication in those instances where their hymen is either broken or “they never had one”.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I vote necessary ,If they trust each other thats ok ,but the reason why i vote necesarry is for the benefit of girl ,cos u know islamicly if they said that the girl is virgin then appeared not virgin ,man has right to anullied the contract so this will affect girl`s reputation ,on the other hand some ignorant men who don`t see blood in wedding night ,cos kind of hymen can`t be teared from first intercoures ,may accuse poor girl even crimes might happen in some ignorant countries so if her hymen was such kind she at least has been tested &certified by docs &they can`t accuse her .this is absolutly for non trustworthy ignorant mischiefed men,of coures the things is completly different with well educated momen.

You have some point, but there is also some detriment in your statements. Under no circumstances would she need any kind of test prior to the marriage. During the marriage, if the man is concerned about whether her hymen is in tact, as he has every right to be if that was his preference and expectation, there are various ways he can EASILY find that out after marriage. If her hymen is not intact, you are right that he may annul the contract and return her right away. The reason for this is because she deceived him completely and a woman who deceives is not worth marrying and spending your life with.

Salam ,

"Return her"? Brother, you are talking about a human being. Not a car or an air conditioner.

I think BOTH spouses should be tested before marriage, I don't see anything wrong with that, def. not for virginity issues, but just so both are aware of partners' health

The "white sheet" reminds me of a little village, ignorance, and a whole lot of centuries ago.

ws

The impression of what I was stating is that if she deceived him and did not inform him whether or not her hymen was in tact prior to marriage, then he would have all the right to return her if it comes out to be that her hymen is not in tact.

When you mean “tested”, are you referring to HIV tests? I think those are required by law, anyways, although Islamically speaking, those tests hardly need to apply to women who are virgins, modest, and have led conservative and traditional lives.

The “white sheet” was not meant literally, but the inference was that if the man really wants to find out whether or not she is a virgin (here I’m referring to the virgin whose hymen is in tact), then that is real easy for him to do.

Such "tests" are stupid, medieval and don't prove or disprove [Edited Out].

First of all, there MUST be the basic trust between partners, that they can take each other's words in this.

Second, it doesn't mean anything if there is a hymen or not. Some girls will still bleed on their first coitus despite a youth of sports and tampon use, and extensive non-coital contact. Some other girls may hardly have realized they had a vagina before, but be born with little or no hymen.

Anyone that gives any meaning to hymens or bleeding is just badly informed.

Your first point is correct that the trust must be there otherwise they should not even be marrying each other. Your second point, however, from the standpoint of Qur’an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) is extremely flawed. Any sport which endangers the hymen is strictly forbidden, and tampon use is strictly forbidden altogether, classified as a lesser fornication and violation in the private parts in both in the Qur’an (24:30 and 23:5) and in the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) to guard the private parts. In fact, if a tampon is used by a girl with a hymen, then it is a much stronger offense against Allah (swt), because in that case she would not only be violating her private parts, but she would be even violating that part of her private parts, the hymen, which Allah (swt) placed as a guard upon her private parts. Such grave crimes, though, are not even to be conceived by any modest woman, although in this modern day and age of evil, anything is possible.

so what if the girl broke her virginity in another way then what a guy might think, example by accident etc; how will a girl prove it to make sure she hasnt violated the guys trust??

Islam is quite firm on this issue, there are many books that speak about this issue, making it clear that on the wedding night if a guy realsies his wife isnt a virgin it doesnt mean she broke her virginity through a previous relationship etc, if he trusts her then he must trust her word and not be as rationale.

Allahu a3lam.

Mash’Allah, this is correct, Islam is firm on the issue that to suspect her of having committed fornication with another man simply on the basis of her hymen not being in tact is forbidden. However, the Qur’an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) are still very clear in forbidding her to break her hymen by ANY means, and a man has the right to demand such a woman who has guarded her private parts in the way commanded by the Qur’an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) in that she has never endangered her hymen neither by another man, masturbation, tampons, or any other sin. However, of course, the man still has no right to suspect of her having committed greater fornication with a man, since this was greatly condemned by the Ahlul Bayt (A.S.).

That exactly is the silliness associated with this thread.

Physical virginity can be lost due to hundreds of causes, penetration is just one of them.

It takes a quality and very experienced gynaecologist to establish whether a woman has been used to sexual intercourse.

Correct, however those other “causes” that you speak of are also forbidden by the Qur’an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.). They either fall into greater fornication (masturbation) or lesser fornication (tampons, endangering activities, etc.).

(salam),

For those who believe that such a test is "accurate" are highly ignorant of the female body. A woman's hymen can break at anytime, depending on what physical activity she has participated in. This "test" is sickening, and shows a very backward act in a culture.

salaam

Islam is very clear in forbidding any physical activity for women which endangers the private parts. If a woman knows that there is a significant danger to her private parts through a particular activity, it is forbidden. This is her duty in guarding her private parts in that she must exercise utmost caution in guarding them as instructed by Allah (swt) as much as possible, while still getting the benefits of those physical activities which pose, and in such a way, in which they will pose either little or no risk.

The only time these conservative Islamic traditions (not referring to your test, but referring to the guarding of the private parts) began to be looked upon as backward was only in the last century, due to the excessive feminist movements started in the last century to begin the welcoming of the Dajjal in the coming years.

(salam) Ahmed Nasery,

Annul? What the heck is annul? We are not Catholics!

So are you saying that the hymen is for the case of virginity? Who has told you this? Allah? Or man and their speculations?

A hymen test CANNOT determine if a girl has had sexual intercourse! A hymen can break becuase of different things... not just sex. Therefore if it is broken you still cannot say that a woman has had illegal intercourse or even legal. And quite obvious? Just because a girl may some things that you believe indicates that she may be sexually active, it still does not mean so.

salaam

Well, since a hymen being broken in any of the “different things” you mentioned is also forbidden, that closes your case right there, and in fact, if you think about it, clarifies the entire matter from beginning to end.

The Qur’an clearly says “Say to the believing women that they should guard their private parts.” – Surah 24, Verse 30

The divine command to guard the private parts is unqualified. It does not say that guard only from illicit sexual intercourse. Rather, it says guard from everything except from your spouse. In other words, the private parts are FOR your spouse, and as such, so is the hymen that Allah (swt) has placed upon them to guard them. But Allah (swt) does not stop even at this point. Furthermore, He describes the believers as “those who protect their private parts except from their spouses…Therefore, whosoever seeks beyond that (as we have begun to seek now in the 14th and 15th Islamic centuries), then they are the transgressors. " – Surah 24, Verse 5

(bismillah)

i think its rude to ask such things

its not islamic and its rude

no one has the right to check the girl its her personal life

he wants a pius girl or a virgin????

if he only wants a virgin he can put that in his contract.....

and there is no way they can check.... its wrong and it leads to accusations without evidence

and if they accuse her without solid evidence as she coudl loose her verginity in horse riding or many different sports and some women physiclly appear to be nonevergin without doing anything

so if she is accused it will be "qathf" and the punishment of qathf is very big in islam

Horse riding is strictly forbidden for women, so much so that our Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) have taught us, and through their own examples, that no righteous woman will ever be caught riding forward (in other words, not sideways or supported) on a horse, camel, or donkey.

However, it is important now to mention that they hymen can be broken by other means, not all of which include the Haram, and I will mention those now. One is when an activity is demanded by necessity and although it is not sure to damage the hymen, it manages to do so. The other is when one is engaged in a practice which does not normally endanger the hymen, but by circumstances out of their control, manages to do so.

On another note, even though Imam Ali (A.S.) was very stern in forbidding all of these activities for women, he was also just as stern in forbidding accusations against a woman’s honor by men, in order to protect the women from a false accusation of having committed greater fornication with a man, when in fact, the hymen may have been lost to lesser fornication (tampons, etc.),have been an accident (as mentioned above), or have not been there to begin with. In doing so, he made a bold statement against such suspicion and accounted for even the most remote possibilities of losing the hymen (by accident) and scolded anyone who would suspect a woman of being a fornicatress on the basis of her hymen not being in tact:

Narrated Imam Ali (A.S.): A man said to him, "O Prince of the Faithful, I married a virgin woman and when I consummated the marriage, I found her to be a non-virgin.

The Imam (A.S.) said, "Woe unto you! Virginity (in this case, the hymen) can go from a leap, a jump, menstruation, ablution and from being unmarried for a long time.” (claimed by a 3rd party to be from Mustadrak alwasael and da'aim al-islam, but is to be readily accepted)

So, while Imam Ali (A.S.) strongly warned women to guard their private parts and to avoid engaging any activity that would endanger them, he at the same time also boldly scolded any man who would attack a woman’s honor simply on the basis of her hymen, and the Qur’an also boldly confirms this and even prescribes a severe punishment upon the man in such a case.

^^Today hymen is myth ,tomorrow having boyfriend will be islamic!!

Actually, you really don’t have to wait for tomorrow on that one. Nowadays, for a sister to chat with and laugh with many brothers for practically no reason is considered perfectly “Islamic”. Ironically enough, what is considered unIslamic is for any of those brothers to go up to her with sincere and good intentions, and instead of chatting and laughing with her about silly things, to actually try to get to know her for an Islamic reason such as marriage.

asalaamu alaikum

If you look at it historically this hysteria over a intact hymen only began when humanity started to raise their own food, herd animals and own land...becos it was important for the father to know who was his legitimate heir to pass his land, cattle and wealth on to.

In societies which traditionally dont care much for passing on family wealth or which are hunter/gatherer societies.. then promiscuity in women like men is considered unimportant...

So basically its a old fashioned concept which any semi-intelligent human being today ought to know a intact hymen no way can assure the potential "groom" that his wife is a virgin...but ancient beliefs die hard...

fi aman Allah

Bailey

Actually, an intact hymen is one of the greatest evidence of virginity. While not having one does not confirm you are not a virgin, having one often means that you are.

It's sick that someone would even bring this debate up again, especially since it has been debunked by a doctor on ShiaChat.

Imam Ali (as) on hymen and virginity

Paying a painful price for restoring `virginity'

Anyone who is still doubtful, needs a life.

Well said, except your doctor and the saying you mentioned (which ironically enough, I also mentioned above), fail to bring the light the fact that women are still required to guard their private parts and are in no way entitled to harm them, because they are to be guarded from everything othe than spouse, and that includes themselves and whatever actions they might take.

But let’s go back to that saying just to really get at the heart of this matter:

Narrated Imam Ali (A.S.): A man said to him, "O Prince of the Faithful, I married a virgin woman and when I consummated the marriage, I found her to be a non-virgin.

The Imam (A.S.) said, "Woe unto you! Virginity (in this case, the hymen) can go from a leap, a jump, menstruation, ablution and from being unmarried for a long time.” (claimed by a 3rd party to be from Mustadrak alwasael and da'aim al-islam, but is to be readily accepted)

Notice that while Imam Ali (A.S.) goes to the fullest extent in forbidding the attack on a woman’s honor on the basis of her hymen alone, he at the same time never claims it as Halal for her to intentionally violate her private parts in any way. This at the same time, goes ENTIRELY in line with the Qur’an, which while forbidding the woman from engaging in any activity which endangers her hymen and ordering her to guard her private parts for her future spouse (in addition, Allah (swt) even placing the hymen as a further guard on them), also forbids the man from claiming her to have committed greater fornication with a man on the basis of the hymen alone, for which the Qur’an even deems a severe punishment. And therein lies the growing problem with the way posts are made on this forum, in that people like to post one side only, but they never want to show you the whole picture, no doubt in line with the warnings about our times as well. Thankfully, the Qur’an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) in their comprehensiveness have addressed EVERY matter up to the Day of Judgment, for those few who have open eyes and minds.

Fee amanillah,

Ibrahim

Edited by Ibrahim110

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This impertinence is not right. It is in fact Wajib upon the girl to inform the man if she is not a virgin and/or if her hymen is not in tact, as these are what are to be expected from a virgin girl. As such, it is Wajib on the man to trust her, because if they do not even trust each other, they should not be marrying each other.

In FACT according to the LEARNED amongst us - THE MARJIS - it is NOT wajib upon the girl to inform the man about her virginity unless he asks.

Of course, not having a hymen does not confirm that one is not a virgin, but it does indicate a great likelihood of either greater fornication with a man, greater fornication with themselves (masturbation, etc.), or lesser fornication with themselves (tampons, etc.). However, even though it is forbidden for them to engage in any of the acts which would endanger their private parts (in this case, their hymen, the guard over their private parts created by Allah (swt)),

In light of the hadeeth by Imam Ali, you words amount to NOTHING, who has clearly stated a number of possibilities for the absence of a hymen.

The impression of what I was stating is that if she deceived him and did not inform him whether or not her hymen was in tact prior to marriage, then he would have all the right to return her if it comes out to be that her hymen is not in tact.

And the Imam (as) said to the man who suspected his wife, who did not have a hymen, 'WOE UNTO YOU". And according to hadeeth and tafseer of Quran, 'Woe - (alwayl) is a place in hell. So he was in fact reprimanding the man for his suspicious doubts.

Any sport which endangers the hymen is strictly forbidden, and tampon use is strictly forbidden altogether, classified as a lesser fornication and violation in the private parts in both in the Qur'an (24:30 and 23:5) and in the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) to guard the private parts. In fact, if a tampon is used by a girl with a hymen, then it is a much stronger offense against Allah (swt), because in that case she would not only be violating her private parts, but she would be even violating that part of her private parts, the hymen, which Allah (swt) placed as a guard upon her private parts. Such grave crimes, though, are not even to be conceived by any modest woman, although in this modern day and age of evil, anything is possible.

And according to those we rely on for our knowledge, what you say is flawed and OPINIONATED, and opinion that originates from one who does not possess the knowledge of hadeeth and tafseer is cursed by Ahlul Bayt. So stop attributing your opinion to Ahlul Bayt. They do not prohibit sports because of the hymen, in fact, there is only one hadeeth about HORSE RIDING, and its not a prohibition, it is only recommended against (makruh) and there is no mention of virginity in the context of the hadeeth. So again, keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself and stop attributing them to Ahlul Bayt (as) . In fact, all scholars allow use of tampons and you are in no position to impose YOUR OPINION, because you are in no way equal in knowledge or cognizance of hadeeth or Quran. Again refrain from providing your exegis of Quran and stick to providing the opinions of those who are qualified.

Correct, however those other "causes" that you speak of are also forbidden by the Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt (A.S.). They either fall into greater fornication (masturbation) or lesser fornication (tampons, endangering activities, etc.).

YOUR OPINION again, and it amounts to ZILCH. keep it to yourself.

Islam is very clear in forbidding any physical activity for women which endangers the private parts. If a woman knows that there is a significant danger to her private parts through a particular activity, it is forbidden. This is her duty in guarding her private parts in that she must exercise utmost caution in guarding them as instructed by Allah (swt) as much as possible, while still getting the benefits of those physical activities which pose, and in such a way, in which they will pose either little or no risk.

All tafseers refer to guarding themselves against fornication, so again please spare us YOUR OPINION.

The Qur'an clearly says "Say to the believing women that they should guard their private parts." – Surah 24, Verse 30

The divine command to guard the private parts is unqualified. It does not say that guard only from illicit sexual intercourse. Rather, it says guard from everything except from your spouse. In other words, the private parts are FOR your spouse, and as such, so is the hymen that Allah (swt) has placed upon them to guard them. But Allah (swt) does not stop even at this point. Furthermore, He describes the believers as "those who protect their private parts except from their spouses…Therefore, whosoever seeks beyond that (as we have begun to seek now in the 14th and 15th Islamic centuries), then they are the transgressors. " – Surah 24, Verse 5

ALL - CONSENSUS - in tafseer that this refers to fornication and adultery and not your sports and tampon obsession.

Horse riding is strictly forbidden for women, so much so that our Ahlul Bayt (A.S.) have taught us, and through their own examples, that no righteous woman will ever be caught riding forward (in other words, not sideways or supported) on a horse, camel, or donkey.

LIES again - one who issues a fatwa without knowledge should assume his place in the fires of hell (RasoolAllah) - the hadeeth refers to it, as I mentioned above, a recommendation against not a prohibition, and not in anyway related to the hymen, but other issues which are not suitable to be graphically mentioned.

There is the hadeeth of the woman who was riding a donkey and fell off. The Prophet turned quickly away so as not to see anything. Those with him said, 'she is wearing pants (mutasarwillah) O Prophet'. The Prophet did not curse her for riding a donkey or punish her because it was haram, In fact he blessed her and said, 'May Allah have mercy on those who wear pants' (rahimallah almutasarwilaat)

As for the rest of your post it is nothing but repeated drivel which has been answered above, not from misinformed and self-formed opinions, but from those who have the knowledge to answer.

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All men should treat their spouse/wife-to-be (or women in general) as they would like to see their sisters being treated.

Today you insult someone's daughter, tomorrow someone else will insult your daughter, mate!

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salam,

It's necessary......I was born and raised in the U.S by Iranian parents and I got married in Iran...it seemed weird to me at first, but i went along with it. I just had to go to the doctor and get a note from her......no one else had to check. Anyways, I now think that this is necessary because you never know what the future holds. If a husband wants an excuse to divorce his wife, he CAN lie about his wife not being a virgin........and his side of the family can't stop him or convince him otherwise because he's the only one that can technically know if his wife is a virgin or not. This has nothing to do with not trusting each other............it's just that many people change their personality....and so the virginity check can come to the lady's rescue. By the way, there are ways to know if the husband is a virgin.............just a thought.

~LAYLA

Edited by Layla86

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Why are people so ignorant when it comes to the facts. There was a recent study made in the middle east on the issue of the hymen and the results were obtained from interviewing married muslim women. 25 % of women never bleed on their wedding night , either due to lack of hymen, the hymen being too elastic to break and bleed or because it had ruptured at an earlier stage. T he claim that a women who engages in any activity which may damage her hymen is commiting haraam is ridiculous as it is well known from hadith that heavy menstruation can cause the hymen to stretch or falling or not being able to be married for a long times, so when has it been made haram to menstruate, to fall or not being able to get married. Some peoples responses are very worrying, firstly because it seems that people are given fatwas without any scholarly background, secondly these kind of ignorant statements cause unnessesary anxiety in unmarried chaste females.

If muslim men are so obsessesd with having a virgin with an intact hymen than they should concentrate on becoming a better muslim and drawing closer to Allah and the blessesd Prophet (pbuh) and insha Allah our lord will grant them jannat where they will have the hoor al ayn who will always be virgins :Hijabi: (salam)

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salam,

It's necessary......I was born and raised in the U.S by Iranian parents and I got married in Iran...it seemed weird to me at first, but i went along with it. I just had to go to the doctor and get a note from her......no one else had to check. Anyways, I now think that this is necessary because you never know what the future holds. If a husband wants an excuse to divorce his wife, he CAN lie about his wife not being a virgin........and his side of the family can't stop him or convince him otherwise because he's the only one that can technically know if his wife is a virgin or not. This has nothing to do with not trusting each other............it's just that many people change their personality....and so the virginity check can come to the lady's rescue. By the way, there are ways to know if the husband is a virgin.............just a thought.

~LAYLA

Salam,

Your statement which I have highlighted above is untrue and your belief in it perpetuates the ill-treatment of women. So unless you want to shoulder the SIN of that, by your public statement of this 'fact', I suggest you rethink your views by reading the information below, much of which is just a restatement of what has been said over and over again on this forum.

"The appearance of the hymen cannot be used to determine whether a woman has begun sexual activity. A fimbriated type of hymen in virginal women may be indistinguishable from one that has been penetrated during intercourse.” – Cunningham et al.

A study conducted by Adams et al, “Differences in hymenal morphology between adolescent girls with and without a history of consensual sexual intercourse” by the University of California, concluded that “Subjects who admitted past intercourse still had nondisrupted, intact hymens in 52% of cases”.

In a study by Sinal et al, aiming “to measure agreement among experienced clinicians regarding the interpretation of physical findings in child sexual abuse cases” by examining colposcopic photographs, only 39 % were in perfect agreement.

So what does this all mean? A husband, even if he was an experienced clinician cannot be sure whether a woman has been sexually active before their marriage, by examining or probing her hymen/genitalia. This is probably why your doctor didn’t bother to examine you. He/she didn’t put you through the trauma of a pelvic examination and just wrote a letter to please the ignorant presumptions of society which unfortunately seems to be predominantly muslim.

If you claim to be shia, and the above medical knowledge is not enough for you, why dont you listen to the words of your Imam and cease your ignorant beliefs? Your imam clearly discourages the questioning/& presumption of a woman's prior loss of virginity by her husband.

Mustadrak alwasael and da'aim al-islam

Narrated Imam Ali (as) : A man said to him, "O Prince of the Faithful, I married a virgin woman and when I consummated the marriage, I found her to be a non-virgin.

The Imam said, "Woe unto you ! Virginity can go from a leap, a jump, menstruation, ablution and from being unmarried for a long time.

References (in order of appearance in text above)

Cunningham FG; Leveno KL; Bloom SL; Hauth JC; Gilstrap LC; Wenstrom KD. Williams Obstetrics, 22nd Edition

Adams JA; Botash AS; Kellogg N - Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med - 01-MAR-2004; 158(3): 280-5.

Sinal SH; Lawless MR; Rainey DY; Everett VD; Runyan DK; Frothingham T; Herman-Giddens M; St Claire K. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 1997 May;151(5):497-501.

Why are people so ignorant when it comes to the facts. There was a recent study made in the middle east on the issue of the hymen and the results were obtained from interviewing married muslim women. 25 % of women never bleed on their wedding night , either due to lack of hymen, the hymen being too elastic to break and bleed or because it had ruptured at an earlier stage.

The percentage is reportedly much higher than that (over 50 percent), see my post above. It is not a surprise really, that part of the female genitalia has very little blood vessels and is elastic. So even if it is torn, it may not bleed to an extent that will be detectable.

Im afraid that this is VERY important information for the young people here, who think that a woman has to bleed on her wedding bed to prove her chastity. Women have been literally ripped up by their husbands in this quest for the bloody evidence of "chastity".

"There are marked differences in shape and consistency of the hymen, which is composed mainly of elastic and collagenous connective tissue. Both the outer and inner surfaces are covered by stratified squamous epithelium. The hymen has no glandular or muscular elements, and it is not richly supplied with nerve fibers.”

Cunningham FG; Leveno KL; Bloom SL; Hauth JC; Gilstrap LC; Wenstrom KD. Williams Obstetrics, 22nd Edition

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Guest Katayon
Yes, but that is among that things that aren't really required of a Muslim to follow... I mean, personally speaking is what we're talking about here.

we aren't required to follow the sunnah of the Prophet (saawas)?

i care only about what he cares about, i dont care about what he didnt care about.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Both the Man and Woman are supposed to inform the other of any previous encounters or if either is or is not a virgin. However it is unfortunate that both Men and Women tend to omit such truths.

actually according to Sayed Sistani, it is not required to inform anyone.

you are permitted to request the information from your spouse to be in the contract of marriage. however no one is required to submit that information until such time.

why is so many people here pretending to be a mujtahid?

I will not have my daughters subjected to such a demeaning act. Unless of course you have someone with your son from the time he is born thru his whole life up till that point to verify for me ,upon request that he is a virgin as well. Oh but that's right it's ok to take a man at the face value of his word but not women? Give me a friggin break.

EXACTLY

(bismillah)

(salam)

I don`t understand why some ignorant ppls consider the hymen myth ,isn`t a thin membrane which suppose to remain intact till wedding night otherwise husband has right to ANNULLIED the marriage contract islamicly .whats the purpose of hymen membrane if has no meaning why Allah swt creats it.when we talk abt islamic recommendations abt girls&women ,many arrogants start to criticise those recommendation like when we talk abt early marriage &better for girl to have her first peroid at her husbnad house(imam`s hadith) &all those islamic things ,many members criticse it .

sister zaynab ,havn`t studied that nearly each girl has her own particular hymen like fingerprint (we exclude congenital anomalies) ,also quite obvious girls who performing specific kind of sports like riding horse may get her hymen torn but still quite obvious from one who had illegal intercoures before.

Man who wants virgin &its well known when anybody wants to marry a girl suppose to be virgin even without write it down in contract or asking for test

Mustadrak alwasael and da'aim al-islam

Narrated Imam Ali as.gif: A man said to him, "O Prince of the Faithful, I married a virgin woman and when I consummated the marriage, I found her to be a non-virgin.

The Imam as.gif said, "Woe unto you! Virginity can go from a leap, a jump, menstruation, ablution and from being unmarried for a long time.

so now what? why do men get circumzised if the creation of Allah swt doesnt serve a purpose? why do people have their apendix removed if it doesnt serve a purpose?

do you know all? do you know the purposes of the creations of all things? NO

(salam) Well, before I marry, I will go to a gynecologist to be examined to make sure I have no anomalies or possible problems for my sexual intecourse time. I also want to make sure there is no reason why I might have unnecessary pain due to too much of the hymen - I have heard of that before. At that time my physical exam results will be recorded in my health record so in case I have problems with a law case like has been mentioned above, I will not suffer from bad in-laws. So - I will go - but for my protection from possible problems and for information about myself. This is a valuable thread for me - I didnt know how some people were bad about this. It is important to protect yourself - in case you make mistakes with your marriage choice. I think... :)

well too bad your medical exam will be out of date by the time you marry... God knows what you could be up to until then right? in fact you can get the exam done the day before your marriage, and yet your husband can claim that you slept with someone the night before your marriage and so that exam is out of date. aaahh so complex isnt it.

Edited by Katayon

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Guest Katayon
In FACT according to the LEARNED amongst us - THE MARJIS - it is NOT wajib upon the girl to inform the man about her virginity unless he asks.

In light of the hadeeth by Imam Ali, you words amount to NOTHING, who has clearly stated a number of possibilities for the absence of a hymen.

And the Imam (as) said to the man who suspected his wife, who did not have a hymen, 'WOE UNTO YOU". And according to hadeeth and tafseer of Quran, 'Woe - (alwayl) is a place in hell. So he was in fact reprimanding the man for his suspicious doubts.

And according to those we rely on for our knowledge, what you say is flawed and OPINIONATED, and opinion that originates from one who does not possess the knowledge of hadeeth and tafseer is cursed by Ahlul Bayt. So stop attributing your opinion to Ahlul Bayt. They do not prohibit sports because of the hymen, in fact, there is only one hadeeth about HORSE RIDING, and its not a prohibition, it is only recommended against (makruh) and there is no mention of virginity in the context of the hadeeth. So again, keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself and stop attributing them to Ahlul Bayt (as) . In fact, all scholars allow use of tampons and you are in no position to impose YOUR OPINION, because you are in no way equal in knowledge or cognizance of hadeeth or Quran. Again refrain from providing your exegis of Quran and stick to providing the opinions of those who are qualified.

YOUR OPINION again, and it amounts to ZILCH. keep it to yourself.

All tafseers refer to guarding themselves against fornication, so again please spare us YOUR OPINION.

ALL - CONSENSUS - in tafseer that this refers to fornication and adultery and not your sports and tampon obsession.

LIES again - one who issues a fatwa without knowledge should assume his place in the fires of hell (RasoolAllah) - the hadeeth refers to it, as I mentioned above, a recommendation against not a prohibition, and not in anyway related to the hymen, but other issues which are not suitable to be graphically mentioned.

There is the hadeeth of the woman who was riding a donkey and fell off. The Prophet turned quickly away so as not to see anything. Those with him said, 'she is wearing pants (mutasarwillah) O Prophet'. The Prophet did not curse her for riding a donkey or punish her because it was haram, In fact he blessed her and said, 'May Allah have mercy on those who wear pants' (rahimallah almutasarwilaat)

As for the rest of your post it is nothing but repeated drivel which has been answered above, not from misinformed and self-formed opinions, but from those who have the knowledge to answer.

EXACTLY

because he's the only one that can technically know if his wife is a virgin or not. T

actually no one can technically know anything.

By the way, there are ways to know if the husband is a virgin.............just a thought.

please do share, generations of women eager to know....

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No.

Carry the idiocy to its logical extreme.

Get the girl examined by two experienced and 'aadila gynaecologists immediately before the nikah, anf if there is to be a time lag between the nikah and the rukhsati, again immediately before she gets into the hearse . . .

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No.

Carry the idiocy to its logical extreme.

Get the girl examined by two experienced and 'aadila gynaecologists immediately before the nikah, anf if there is to be a time lag between the nikah and the rukhsati, again immediately before she gets into the hearse . . .

^ looool that is hilarious. but why stop there, you know, they can just have a gyno on hand right before intercourse, there for the play by play action right. yuk im going to throw up

Edited by Katayon

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^ looool that is hilarious. but why stop there, you know, they can just have a gyno on hand right before intercourse, there for the play by play action right. yuk im going to throw up

Well, that coming from a brother wouldn't have been digestible for the tender sensitivities of many folks here

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I think i would trust my wife in the first place. If i couldn't trust my wife on such a simple issue as this i don't think i would proceed with the marriage at all.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I think i would trust my wife in the first place. If i couldn't trust my wife on such a simple issue as this i don't think i would proceed with the marriage at all.

(salam)

Word.

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What then is the purpose of mutah? I know, its ironic but atleast i would know that she has slept only with me before permanent marriage.

Consumation before nikah ! :angel:

I hope your joking. I hate to see a brother live alone for the rest of his life. If the girl is good then she won't have a problem finding someone else.

How do you plan to prove your virginity to her?

Why is it always towards the women?

Edited by AllahCanSeeYou

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i cant believe this...

being a Virgin means not sleeping with anyone. Dont u think the girl knows wether or not she slept with anyone?

and plus, hymens can break in ways other than intercourse, so how can the girl get "proof" for her future husband?

and also, i can tell the guy to go find someone else right from the getgo if he doesnt take my word for the truth. if he cant trust me from the start, what makes u think he will later on?

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What then is the purpose of mutah? I know, its ironic but atleast i would know that she has slept only with me before permanent marriage.

Consumation before nikah ! :angel:

well althought you have already demonstrated your level of decency and intelligence, for some reason i have found myself replying to your crude post. maybe its because my lunch doesnt really appeal to me and i need something to distract myself from the taste.

SO during this imaginary muta of yours, you will discover that she is a virgin when you consumate the marriage... and how will this come about? will God speak to you?

After all you lack an X chromosome and God created you in a special way that you dont have to account for your actions, perhaps He speaks to you too to tell you whos a virgin and who isnt.

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MashaAllah, Lord be my savior. I see that you would like to marry the person in your avatar, who is willing to marry any [Edited Out] (you are not one of them, ofcourse, coz you probably do hijab)

Muta is not imaginary, its real. Been there done that many times. I will have done it with her in mutah, and thats what mutah is there for. Mutah isnt there for me to discuss islam with her.

I think i don't have to respond to this stupid query. I told you, i will do mutah with her before marriage. BF/GF, understood?

hmm ok clearly english isnt your first, second, or third language.

ill try to make it more simple.

How will you know she is a virgin, after you have consumated the muta?

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who cares if the person is a virgin or not that is for insecure guys and by Allah (SWT) we are numerous as lice on a dog in zambia

but what is a must is to TEST FOR CAVITIES AND GINGIVITIS!!!!!!!!!

BRUSH THE TEETH

USE THE MOUTHWASH

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