Grand Ayatullah arrested for claiming to be in contact with Imam (as)

[Casper]

Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Abtahi, the father of cleric Seyed Mohammd Ali Abtahi (a key advisor to former reformist president Mohammad Khatami) has been arrested on charges of claiming to be in contact with the last prophet in occultation known as ‘Imam-e zaman’ in Iran. This known cleric who has published various works on the last imam has been in detention for the past 15 days, when he came to Tehran by the ministry of intelligence. He is reported to have been arrested on a warrant issued by the special court for the clergy and then transferred to Qom. There are also reports that 15 of his students too have been arrested around the country.

The cleric is 71 years old and is reported to be under harsh interrogations because of which he has spent the last 10 days in a hospital. It is said that his health is in critical condition especially as he had had an open heart surgery in recent years.

His views are known to be different from those of his son and during the last elections he was a supporter of now president Ahmadinejad whom he called a supporter of the last imam.

His arrest on charges of claiming to be in touch with the last imam come at a time when several other prominent Iranian politicians have made similar claims. For example soon after Ahmadinejad assumed the presidency, ayatollah Meshkini publicly announced that his cabinet had all received the sanctity of the last Prophet. Observers have interpreted his arrest to be a way to apply pressure on his son who is an outspoken critic of the government of president Ahmadinejad .

source

So was it an attempt to build close ties and controls AhmadiNajad ?

Sheikh Ali Khamena-i knows that guy (najad) is a fanatic that can be easily manipulated .

He believes in the shia religion in mythological way , that his halo of light trapped the ears of UN members to hear the islamic revolution's voice , and that he is working for Imam Mahdi's return ... so what will prohibit him from believing syed Hassan Abtahi's mixture of allegations and compliments ?

If not why Sheikh Ali is frustrated that way , while many of his political turbanheads and other clerics have aqaed breaches ?

Only sheikh Ali is in contact with Imam Mahdi :lol:

Edited July 6, 2006 by .

[Abdullah88]

How authentic is a source which claims to be Shi'a when they themself don't know the Shi'a belief...

contact with the last prophet in occultation known as ‘Imam-e zaman’ in Iran.

Edited July 6, 2006 by JonnyLev

[Rawshni]

^

Why wash Iran's dirty linen on the www?

[THE_TRUTH]

Man you shias are funny sometimes I want to ask you one question how do you know that other scholars dont have contact with imam al mahdi (as) you think only ali khamne has contact with him lol is that because you follow him ?

Edited July 6, 2006 by THE_TRUTH

[Casper]

How authentic is a source which claims to be Shi'a when they themself don't know the Shi'a belief...

Disclaimer: The News and articles presented on this website are based on emails that we receive from different people and we do not take responsibility for the authenticity. The views or comments presented by the authors do not necessarily reflect the views of AzadarNews team.

Also it is mentioned on nourizadeh site : link

Why wash Iran's dirty linen on the www?

It is about the PRI , not Iran .

[Rawshni]

^

I'm an unlettered woman. What's PRI???

[Casper]

Claiming to see or to be in contact with the Imam (pbuh) is not something in breaching of shia aqaed . But claiming to be a private deputee for the Imam , is something called Al Babiyya , which who he falsely claims that he is the bab for Imam Mahdi , was cursed , like the Shalamaghany (la3) .

Of course Sheikh Ali haven't claimed to be a private deputee , inspite of the AWF theory who indirectly give similar privileges , but what Ayatollah Abtahi have claimed is far less than sheikh Khamena-i's wilayat in the name of the maasoom (pbuh) .

^

What's PRI???

Pantheist Regime in Iran . It is in my signature .

Edited July 6, 2006 by .

[Rawshni]

Pantheist Regime in Iran . It is in my signature .

Ahh. Thanks for enlightening me, and my regrets for not noting it in your signature . . .

^

By the way, hasn't this been a recurring phenomenon in Shia history?

Folks claiming to have have seen, interacted with, and some, such as Allameh Ardbili, claiming to have been in regular contact with the Imam (as)?

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any one who claims to have seen the Imam (af) or claims to be in contact with Him (as) is a liar (backed by hadith). Liars don't deserve to be leaders in the community and could be considered corruptors of religion.

wassalam

[sayedzeeshan]

^^

(salam)

That hadith doesnot reject contact, it only rejects claiming of deputiship as was a phenomenon in lesser occultation. There are frequent reports of such contacts being made and they cannot be rejected.

[Casper]

You are right sister , among those who had contact with Imam Mahdi (pbuh) in addition to Allamh Al Ardabili are :

-Sheikh Al Kulayni , when Imam Mahdi (pbuh) told him that his book is sufficent (Kafi) for the shias , so he named it Al Kafi

-Shaykh Al Mufyd , who had this nickname by the Imam .

-The story of the grenadine in Bahrain

-Yaqoot Al Hilli

-Ismail bin Hasan Al Hiraqly

-Abi Rajeh Al Hamamy

-Sheikh Muhammad Hasan Al Najafi

-Ayatullah Al Qazwini.

-Hajj Ali al Baghdadi

"Imam Mahdi minal Mahd ila Zuhoor"

in addition to the late Ayatullah Al Shirazi .

So Ayatullah Abtahi's arrest because of such claims have no basis .

Especially that the communist Ali al Meshkini , who interpreted the quran according to Darwin's theory , publicly announced that his cabinet had all received the sanctity of the Imam .

[Guest alsayed1]

(salam)

Although not being a supporter of the Iranian government, this thread and that site are a load of fesces. Imam Ali said the difference between truth and falsehood is 4 fingers. These people spread fitna and they claim no responsibility for things with no basis. I contacted qom and no such news is known..

[widad]

(salam)

I've heard that most people who do meet the Imam (A.F.) do not speak of it publically. It's only found out after their deaths.

Wa'Salaam

[seyedmusawi]

Your joking right?

Disclaimer: The News and articles presented on this website are based on emails that we receive from different people and we do not take responsibility for the authenticity. The views or comments presented by the authors do not necessarily reflect the views of AzadarNews team.

LOL

Imagine if i sent this "news" agency an email that said taking prozac will give a man 4 wives...you think they would post it?

Believe me that would the end of all shiachat mutah polls :)

Edited July 6, 2006 by seyedmusawi

[Casper]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any one who claims to have seen the Imam (af) or claims to be in contact with Him (as) is a liar (backed by hadith). Liars don't deserve to be leaders in the community and could be considered corruptors of religion.

wassalam

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link

[Casper]

Your joking right?

Disclaimer: The News and articles presented on this website are based on emails that we receive from different people and we do not take responsibility for the authenticity. The views or comments presented by the authors do not necessarily reflect the views of AzadarNews team.

LOL

Imagine if i sent this "news" agency an email that said taking prozac will give a man 4 wives...you think they would post it?

Believe me that would the end of all shiachat mutah polls :)

nourizadeh site have authenticity but it had the article in arabic , what I posted is the english version .

Here is an additional source from roozonline , and this in farsi

Edited July 6, 2006 by .

[THE_TRUTH]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any one who claims to have seen the Imam (af) or claims to be in contact with Him (as) is a liar (backed by hadith). Liars don't deserve to be leaders in the community and could be considered corruptors of religion.

wassalam

Salam mashalah Shias are really funny :) Any one who claims to have seen the mahdi (as) is a liar lol man you people are funny lol

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

(bismillah)

(salam)

That hadith doesnot reject contact, it only rejects claiming of deputiship as was a phenomenon in lesser occultation. There are frequent reports of such contacts being made and they cannot be rejected.

You are right sister , among those who had contact with Imam Mahdi (pbuh) in addition to Allamh Al Ardabili are :

.

.

.

So Ayatullah Abtahi's arrest because of such claims have no basis .

Especially that the communist Ali al Meshkini , who interpreted the quran according to Darwin's theory , publicly announced that his cabinet had all received the sanctity of the Imam .

Salam mashalah Shias are really funny :) Any one who claims to have seen the mahdi (as) is a liar lol man you people are funny lol

Oh i see. Cos i had read this (amongst others) . . .

http://www.duas.org/maximofmahdi.htm

Maxim No. 22

On Those Who Claim to Have Seen Imam Mahdi (as)

Those who claim to have seen me before the appearance of Sufyani and the call from the sky are liars and accusers.

So i take it you don't think this hadith (by the imam himself) is authentic then???

wassalam

[Rawshni]

(bismillah)

(salam)

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any one who claims to have seen the Imam (af) or claims to be in contact with Him (as) is a liar (backed by hadith). Liars don't deserve to be leaders in the community and could be considered corruptors of religion.

wassalam

I'm not sure whether you're providing simple, down to earth information or being ironic . . .

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

(bismillah)

(salam)

I'm not sure whether you're providing simple, down to earth information or being ironic . . .

Just after some clarification that's all sis. Perhaps what i quoted was mistranslated also. There's no harm in asking :) We're all here to learn.

wassalam

[Casper]

Ó: æÑÏ Ýí ÈÚÖ ÇÍÇÏíË ÇáÇÆãÉ ÇáãÚÕæãíä ÓáÇã ÇááÉ Úáíåã ÇÌãÚíä ãÇ ãÚäÇÉ Çä ßá ãä íÏÚí ÑÄíÉ ÇáÇãÇã ÇáÍÌÉ Èä ÇáÍÓä ÇáÚÓßÑí ÚÌá ÇááÉ ÝÑÌÉ ÇáÔÑíÝ ÞÈá ÎÑæÌÉ æÝí ÛíÈÊÉ ÇáßÈÑì ÇäãÇ åæ ßÐÇÈ ãäãÓ æãÚ åÐÇ ÝÇääí ÇÌÏ Ýí ßËíÑ ãä ÇáãÑÇÌÚ ÇÎÈÇÑÇ Úä ÇäÇÓ ÞÏ ÇáÊÞæÇ ÈÕÇÍÈ ÇáÒãÇä (ÚÌ) ÝßíÝ íãßä ÇáÊæÝíÞ Èíä ßá åÐÉ ÇáÇÎÈÇÑ¿ æåá ãä Çáããßä áÈÚÖ ÇáãÄãäíä ÑÄíÉ ÇáÇãÇã ÓáÇã ÇááÉ ÚáíÉ ÝÚáÇ¿

Ì: ÇáÙÇåÑ Ãä ÇáÍÏíË ãÚÊÈÑ æíÓÊÝÇÏ ãäå:

ÃæáÇð: ÇáÊæÞíÚ ÇáÔÑíÝ áÇ íÊÖãä äÝí ÑÄíÉ ÇáÅãÇã ÇáÍÌÉ ÚÌá Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ¡ æÅäãÇ ÊÖãä ÊßÐíÈ ãÏÚí ÑÄíÊå¡ ÝáÇ ãÇäÚ ãä Ãä íæÝÞ Çááå ÊÚÇáì áÑÄíÉ ÇáÅãÇã ÚÌá Çááå ÝÑÌå ÃÔÎÇÕÇð íÊÍáæä ÈÇáÊÚÞá æÇáÑÔÏ æÇáÍáã¡ æÞæÉ ÇáäÝÓ¡ æÖÈØ ÇáÃÚÕÇÈ¡ ÝíßÊãæä æáÇ íÐíÚæä¡ æáÇ íÏÚæä¡ æÇä íßæä ãä ÃÏÚì ÇáÑÄíÉ ÕÑíÍÇð ÇäÇÓÇð ãÝÊÑíä ßÐÇÈíä¡ æáÇ íÍÖÑäÇ ÚÇÌáÇð ãä ÕÑøÍ ÈÑÄíÊå ÚÌá Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÝÑÌå æÇÏÚÇåÇ ÈæÌå ÞÇØÚ. ÛÇíÉ ÇáÃãÑ Ãä íÏÚí ÔÎÕ ÑÄíÉ ÅäÓÇä ÈÚáÇãÇÊ æãÞÇÑäÇÊ ÊäÇÓÈ Ãäå ÇáÅãÇã ÇáÍÌÉ ÚÌá Çááå ÝÑÌå¡ åí ÇÔÈå ÈÇáÚáÇãÇÊ ÇáÊÞÑíÈíÉ¡ æÇáÃãÇÑÇÊ ÇáÙäíÉ¡ Ãæ íäÓÈ ÈÚÖ ÇáäÇÓ ÍÓÈ ÞäÇÚÇÊåã æÊÞÑíÈÇÊåã áÂÎÑíä Ãäåã ÑÃæ ÇáÅãÇã ÕáæÇÊ Çááå Úáíå ãä Ïæä Ãä íßæä ÃæáÆß ÞÏ ÕÑÍæÇ ÈÏÚæì ÑÄíÊå ÚÌá Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÝÑÌå.

ËÇäíÇð: Ãä ÇáãäÕÑÝ ãä ÇáÊæÞíÚ ÇáÔÑíÝ Ãæ ÇáãÊíÞä ãäå åí ÇáÑÄíÉ ÇáãÈäíÉ Úáì ÇáÓÝÇÑÉ æÇáäíÇÈÉ¡ æÊÈáíÛ ÇáÃÍßÇã æÇáÃæÇãÑ æÇáäæÇåí¡ Úáì ÇáäÍæ ÇáÐí ßÇä ãÚåæÏÇð Ýí ÇáäæÇÈ ÇáÃÑÈÚÉ (ÑÖí Çááå Úäåã)¡ áÊÃßíÏ ãÇ ÊÖãäå ÇáÊæÞíÚ ÇáÔÑíÝ ãä ÇäÞØÇÚ ÇáÓÝÇÑÉ ææÞæÚ ÇáÛíÈÉ ÇáÊÇãÉ¡ æáÈíÇä ÚÏã ÇáÊÑÇÌÚ Úä Ðáß Ýí ÇáÃÚÕÑ ÇáãÊÚÇÞÈÉ Ü ãåãÇ ØÇáÊ ÇáãÏÉ æÚÙãÊ ÇáãÍäÉ Ü æÃä Êáß ÇáÛíÈÉ ÇáÊí æÞÚÊ áÇ ÊäÊåí ÅáÇø ÈÙåæÑå (ÚÌá Çááå ÝÑÌå) ÇáÐí áÇ íßæä ÅáÇø ÈÚÏ ÎÑæÌ ÇáÓÝíÇäí æÇáÕíÍÉ. æãä ÇáÙÇåÑ Ãäå áã íÏÚ ÃÍÏ ÇáÑÄíÉ ÇáãÈäíÉ Úáì ÇáÓÝÇÑÉ ÅáÇø ßÇÐÈ ãÝÊÑ¡ ßÇáÈÇÈ ÇáÐí ÙåÑ Ýí ÃæÇÓØ ÇáÞÑä ÇáËÇáË ÚÔÑ ÇáåÌÑí.

fatwa from Ayatullah al Hakeem

- The hadith doesn't deny the seeing of the Imam , but it call for considering a liar who claim that he saw him .

- What it is certain (in the explanation of the hadith) is that what is meant by the vision is

the Safarat or Niyabat (to claim to be a private deputy fror the Imam ) , and the ruling and ordering like the priviliges of the four assisstants (ra) .

Every one who claim such vision based on Safarat , is a liar and an accuser .

Ayatullah Abtahi haven't claimed to have such visions , so the hadith doesn't include him .

If they have arrested him for claiming he have seen the Imam , and that claim makes him a liar and a corruption on religion , then what do you say about Meshkini claiming that Imam Mahdi approoved on his cabinet , and Mesbah Yazdi was inspired in a ramazan night to call for Ahmadi Najad because Imam Mahdi is calling for him , aren't those types of visions based on Safarat and have similar privileges to the 4 deputies ?

ÅãÇã ÇáÒãÇä-ÚÌ Çááå ÊÚÇáی ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑیÝ-æ ÑÆیÓ ÇáÌãåæÑیÉ ÇáÌÏیÏ

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******

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æ ÈÇáØÈÚ ÚäÏãÇ یÞÈá ãä ÇáÓیÏÇä ãÔ˜یäí æ ãÕÈÇÍ åÐÇ ÇáÍÞ ÈÃäåãÇ یäÓÈÇä ÃÚãÇáåãÇ ÇáÓیÇÓیÉ Åáی ÅãÇã ÇáãåÏí-ÚÌ Çááå ÊÚÇáی ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑیÝ-ÝÅÐÇ Çá˜á Ýí Ãí ã˜Çä Ýí ÇáÏäیÇ یÚØí ÇáÍÞ ÈäÝÓå Ãä یÓÊËãÑ åÐÇ ÇáÃÕá. æ ãÇÐÇ ÓیÍÏË áÅÚÊÞÇÏÇÊ ÇáÔÚÈ¿!

source

Edited July 6, 2006 by .

[Hizbullah]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Doing something which is of no benefit to one's self or others, is a random worthless act.

If the source which published the news is unknown, then it is not reliable.

If it is unreliable, then we cannot benefit from it.

Therefore, your posting of the "news" is a random worthless act.

--

Habibi, the original poster, it would be good to inform you that our great scholars (ra) in the past used to say that the one who narrates a hadith from an unknown narrator, then he is not reliable, ie: his 3adalah is void. That's because it is a sign of his carelessness with how he deals with Allah's rulings.

Narrating unreliable news, which could be considered as slander or hatk of the 7ormah of a believer or believers since it blames them of oppression, is likewise considered like the above.

That's first.

Second, Allah (swt) says:

[24:19] Lo! those who love that slander should be spread concerning those who believe, theirs will be a painful punishment in the world and the Hereafter. Allah knoweth. Ye know not.

Çä ÇáÐíä íÍÈæä Çä ÊÔíÚ ÇáÝÇÍÔÉ Ýí ÇáÐíä ÇãäæÇ áåã ÚÐÇÈ Çáíã Ýí ÇáÏäíÇ æÇáÇÎÑÉ æÇááå íÚáã æÇäÊã áÇ ÊÚáãæä

If those who just love slander to be spread concering those who believe are to be punished painfully in this life and the next, then what would those actually spread it get?

I beg you to be careful, especially when it comes to the rights of the believers, because only Allah knows great their rights are.

And if you believe you are right, then there is no need to be childish and call people names, especially if they are respected and loved by others.

The one who is right is strong, while the weak often resorts to bad manners, as Imam Ali ibn al Hussein (as) in his du'a: Only the weak is in need to oppress.

wassalam

[Fatimaa]

(bismillah) (salam)

Don't know how authentic this news is but I respect Ayatullah Hassan Abtahi very much.....His books are a great source enlightment to soul...MashaAllah

^^

(salam)

That hadith doesnot reject contact, it only rejects claiming of deputiship as was a phenomenon in lesser occultation. There are frequent reports of such contacts being made and they cannot be rejected.

Agree.....

Wassalam.

[HusseinAliYounes]

(salam)

coincidence is too beautiful. :)

a few days ago, I opened an Arab topic in connection with Sayyed in the Arab forum here

[Rawshni]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Just after some clarification that's all sis. Perhaps what i quoted was mistranslated also. There's no harm in asking :) We're all here to learn.

wassalam

Thank you.

On a personal not, I have all along believed the content of the subject assertion

[Muhammed Ali]

no comment on the OT i dont really know enough about it. but here is a Q&A from that scholar's website:

question

37- First Name :Vinay Last Name :Khetia Tel : Email :vinay_khetia@yahoo.ca Question :Salaamun Alaykum, if you could foward this question to the appropriate department in case i have not sent to the correct department, i would greatly appreicate that. i I am 20 yo male i go to Univeristy of Toronto in Canada. I am in Islamic studies/Relg and History Dept. I am a Shia Ithansherie, alhomdulilah. here is the issue: Unforuntaly as of late the Muslims, Shias and even non-Muslims have this great contempt towards the Islamic leasder his eminence Ayatullah Sayyid Ali Khamenei (ha). They accuse the "mullah's under Agha Khameneis (ha) guidance" of A) restricting freedom of press 2) freeedom of speech 3) opression and human rights violations of students ( ie beatings, killings, imprisonment at the hands of the authorities and basijis). These people say that someone is just thrown in prison for questioning the supreme leaders authority and positon. They also say that you cannot froce people physcially to wear hijab be they non-Muslims or Muslims. They say u can enourage but not force, and in Iran they force women to do wear chaddor. I am really trying hard to deefend the Islamic system becuase i love it very much. As a result of this they say Iran is not Islamic and Wilyat e Faquee al-Mutlaqa as praticed in Iran is a failing dictatorial system.-( aouzu billah)! These people also critisize Ayatullah Khamenei knowledge base of being a maraja e taqleed.. It is a very sad state of affiars here in Toronto, and to know alot of this is critcism of our maraja from the mouths of Shia Ithnashereies is even worse. As a result of their accusations I am trying to forbid evil and promote the good. But I am not a relgious authority but merly a follower of the exmaple set to us by our great marjaiyyah who are of course Nayyib e Imam (gen representatives). wa salaamun alaykum wa rhamtullahi wa barakatuhu with duas, Brother Vinay Khetia

answer

In His holy name...Salamon alaykom.You can tell them that about all the affairs,the result must be deliberated.At present,Iran has become one of the best countries of the world due to enjoying a wise learned jurisprudent leader.

http://www.abtahi.com/English/index.htm

btw his teacher was shariatmadari

Edited July 6, 2006 by Muhammed Ali

[Abuzar]

(bismillah)

(salam)

• A Grand Ayatullah has supposedly been arrested a fortnight ago, and the only 'sources' publishing this 'information' are either known to be anti-Revolution or unknown internationally. Hardly a fact that would render credibility to the 'news'.
  
• As stated above, it has been a pratice among our ulema from Kulayni (qas) to Khumeini (qas) who were graced with a meeting with the Imam al-'Asr (as) that they never revealed this fact during their lives. A person of Sayyed Hassan al-Abtahi's stature would not be expected to break this time-honoured practice.
  
• The exact Arabic word used in the hadith of Imam (as) is kazzabuhum, which means "call him a liar" (i.e. him not necessarily being a liar). For those knowing Urdu, the exact translation is jhuthlana.
  

@)

[Abuzar]

the last prophet in occultation known as ‘Imam-e zaman’ in Iran

Was this written by a Shi'a - or did some non-Muslim(s) write it for www.azadarnews.com and www.nourizadeh.com ?

@)

[Rawshni]

(bismillah)

(salam)

• A Grand Ayatullah has supposedly been arrested a fortnight ago, and the only 'sources' publishing this 'information' are either known to be anti-Revolution or unknown internationally. Hardly a fact that would render credibility to the 'news'.
  
• As stated above, it has been a pratice among our ulema from Kulayni (qas) to Khumeini (qas) who were graced with a meeting with the Imam al-'Asr (as) that they never revealed this fact during their lives. A person of Sayyed Hassan al-Abtahi's stature would not be expected to break this time-honoured practice.
  
• The exact Arabic word used in the hadith of Imam (as) is kazzabuhum, which means "call him a liar" (i.e. him not necessarily being a liar). For those knowing Urdu, the exact translation is jhuthlana.
  

@)

Was this written by a Shi'a - or did some non-Muslim(s) write it for www.azadarnews.com and www.nourizadeh.com ?

@)

Would it then mean that if someone comes along and makes such a claim, usay jhutlaa dou. Y'aani call such a person a prevaricator, liar?

IF the person, by any chance, happens to be speaking the truth, wouldn't calling him a liar be zulm?

[Link]

(salam)

Is there any more credible sources to this allegation?

[Shia Books]

This can be confirmed by calling Ayatollah's Office in Tehran, Qom or Mashad. I confirmed it personally and you should also confirm it yourself.

[meem_ali]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any one who claims to have seen the Imam (af) or claims to be in contact with Him (as) is a liar (backed by hadith). Liars don't deserve to be leaders in the community and could be considered corruptors of religion.

wassalam

**^precisely**

[Cyan_Garamond]

He can be arrested just for claiming to have met the Imam? Sounds ridiculous. Many have claimed this in private.

[Abuzar]

Would it then mean that if someone comes along and makes such a claim, usay jhutlaa dou. Y'aani call such a person a prevaricator, liar?

IF the person, by any chance, happens to be speaking the truth, wouldn't calling him a liar be zulm?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Bibi, as one who practises taqleed, for me following the instruction of the Imam (as) or his naib - even when the logic is not apparent to me - is mandatory. And this (calling such person a liar) is an instruction of the Imam al-Asr (as) himself.

There were earlier situations where, to narrate one instance, Ali bin Yaqteen dissociated himself from Imam Musa ibne Ja'afar (as) as per instructions of the Imam (as) himself - and the accounts of the events (about wudhu and returning of khums by the Imam (as) )indicates that Ali bin Yaqteen acted upon intructions of the Imam (as) without understanding them, even when the apparent result in at least the case of wudhu was acting in violation of known injunctions of Shi'a Islam, therefore apparently zulm as in not giving a thing or phenomenon its rightful place.

Of course, we now know that instructions of the Imam (as) in both events resulted in greater good for Shi'a Islam, and in Ali bin Yaqteen's life and stature being saved, and in his continued ability to serve momineen.

Also, for me the fact that ulema from Kulayni (qas) to Khumaini (qas) have honoured the restriction of not revealing meetings with Imam (as) as long as they lived adds credence to the necessity of not revealing such meetings.

@)

[~RuQaYaH~]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Oh i see. Cos i had read this (amongst others) . . .

http://www.duas.org/maximofmahdi.htm So i take it you don't think this hadith (by the imam himself) is authentic then???

wassalam

(salam)

Can I just get something cleared up. The hadith says that anyone who claims (ie. tells other people) to be in contact with the Imam is a liar but it does not say that nobody can be in contact with him. Which means that it is possible to be in contact with the Imam.

Now you might say, ''well if it's possible for someone to be in contact with the imam then he would not be a liar if he claimed it''. The keyword here is IF. Someone who is religious enough to be in contact with the Imam (ajt) would NOT tell people that he was in contact with the Imam, so we can assume that anybody who DOES claim it, is lying.

This is how I've always interpreted the hadith - there's a difference between merely being in contact with him and claiming to be in contact with him. But plz correct me if I'm wrong.

Btw bro, what do you make of Imam Khomeini's claim that telling people to get out of their houses in extremely dangerous circumstances, the night before the overthrowing of the shah regime was ''an order from above''?

He can be arrested just for claiming to have met the Imam? Sounds ridiculous. Many have claimed this in private.

I think arresting him was a fair call. Whether it was privately or publically, religion is a very powerful tool and if somebody can get the general masses to believe that they are in contact with the Imam (ajt) then that person can get them to do pretty much anything they like. Even if he had only told one person, this person can tell others, and you know how the saying goes - news spreads like wildfire.

wasalaam

Edited July 7, 2006 by ~RuQaYaH~