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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shia Astrology

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I have heard that the 12 constellations of the Zodiac (e.g.Capricorn, Aquarius etc) symbolise the 12 Imams, the Sun symbolises the Holy Prophet (saws) himself and the Moon Hadhrath Fatima (sa).

What do people think of this.

Before anyone jumps in ....I know...I know that the Imams warned against aspects of predictive astrology as it could be what is called 'divination'....but ulema I have asked say there is truth to this 'science' called ilm-e-nujum, but it is so complex that it's best not to decipher as a little knowledge is bad knowledge and can give the opposite to the truth;

Besides, I'm not into horoscopes. I want to know about the SYMBOLISM of it all...I asked the ulema...they said yes the 12 zodiacal signs and constellations are created to honour the 12 Imams.

I am in awe of them. In fact it's not surprising if we bear in mind Hadith-e-Kisa where it clearly states the sky an dearth were created for the 14 Infallibles.

Edited by XtremeMalang
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Guest QizilBash

I have heard a hadith where imam ali says to people ask me about the sky's, i will tell u more about the ways of the sky than the ways of the earth.

Can someone find a better translation please.

Salams

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I have heard a hadith where imam ali says to people ask me about the sky's, i will tell u more about the ways of the sky than the ways of the earth.

Can someone find a better translation please.

Here is another translation :

"Ask me about what you do not understand before I die. Inquire of me about the paths of the skies because, verily, I know more about those paths than the paths of the earth."

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salaam

mimber of salooni - qutbay e bayan

quote

Ask me about what you do not understand before I die.

Mine would be - Ask me about what you do not know before i am not among U.

quote

Inquire of me about the paths of the skies because, verily, I know more about those paths than the paths of the earth.

perfecto.

akhbari

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There is definitely something to this... in fact a great deal to it.

Sayyid Hossein Nasr writes in his books on Shia mysticism that the 12 signs/constellations of the zodiac are created in honour of the 12 Imams.

Which is named after which Imam? That is something I have some ideas on given reading - but I can't confirm it as I haven't talked with the ulema on which Imam is represented by which constellation.

From what I discern Aries, the first sign, is created to honour Imam Ali (as) - the initiator, warrior, creator, sign of greatness. I am not however clear if the other constellations follow the sequential order ie Pisces seems to be created to honour Imam Husain (as) as a non-muslim book on the astronomy in astrology, wrote that the constellation or sign is an exact replica of the River Euphrates. It is also the classic water sign. It is also clasically associated with martyrdom. The analogy with Karbala seems obvious. There is even a star in Pisces (AlPherg) which has strong and obvious analogies with Hadhrath Abbas (as)'s symbolism, and lies overlapped into Aries which seems to have been created to honour his father Imam Ali (as). Thus this star lies in association with both signs and in old Arabic the name means 'water' that gushes out from the neck of a water-carrier's flask. How about that! It also connects to Aquarius.

In this case Aquarius (the water carrier) as a constellation/sign would represent Imam Hasan (as) - an air sign (symbolising intellect and rationality) - the Carrier of Water - ie carried the Cause of his brother (water - blood of martyrdom) with his intellectual actions.

Not suprisingly, these 2 'brothers' of Aquarius and Pisces are located adjacent to each other in the sky.

Edited by husainshahid
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Guest ShiaCat

(salam)

This issue is interesting, the number 12 is clearly a number of order in creation

12 months, 2 times 12 hours has the day etc

The Icosahedron, twelve vertices around a central point. This form of twelve around one is reflected on many levels of life, including the chlorophyll and hemoglobin molecules, which give life to their respective hosts by ultimatly turning light into energy

which is utilizid in the body.

Anybody got more info?

Edited by ShiaCat
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By the way, Imam Mahdi (as) might be symbolised in Scorpio. This constellation and sign is famous for symbolising power and vengeance.

In Hadith Qudsi, Allah (sawt) states that in Mahdi (as) he shall manifest his power and his revenge.

Thus the Imams are symbols of Allah (sawt)'s names, enshrined in the cosmos in these signs.

It goes on, Imam by Imam.

But as to which sign symbolises which imam - it needs confirmation - these are only thoughts.

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Yes - 12 has sacred symbolism

Some people say that the 12 phases of the Moon symbolise each one of the 12 Imams - that is as one sets another rises.

The analogy is also valid here that the Prophet (saws) symbolises the Sun itself, which after it has set (Mission of the prophet in delivering Qur'an is over) reflects its light off the Moon - of which there are 12 cycles / lunar months.

I have read that the Moon is full on the 14th as this number is that of fullness - the 14 Infallibles.

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A lot is interpretation, and I have not had confrimation from the ulema for these examples. But they seem to fit.

Regarding symbolism of the constellations/signs, it may be that

Gemini is symbolic of Imam Mohammad al Baqir (as): the DIVIDER of knowledge

Taurus: Imam Musa al Kadhim (as): the forbearant, the steadfast, the patient

Cancer: Imam Zain ul-Abedin (as): Allah (sawt)'s name of The Nurturer. This is suggested by role of family in his life esp after Karbala - ie he nurtured them.

Leo: Imam Hasan al Askari (as) : honour or honoured/ majestic/ noble. His name Al-Askari refers to his imprisonment ie the world treated him with imprisonment for virtually all his life - the opposite to that which this name of Allah he represented merited.

Virgo: Imam al Naqi (as) - Purity, without adulteration; in a person, austerity and asceticism - the Imam (as) was famous for this in particular. His name also means pure.

Libra: Allah (sawt) the Just. Imam Mohammad at Taqi (as) - was especially known for his debates and judicial skills as a child when he successfully debated and decimated Yahya ibn Akhtam the Abbaside chief judge in complex legal arguments over the Shariah, and that too in the court of the Sunni khalifa for all to see, when Imam (as) was only a child aged 9.

Sagittarius: Imam Jafar as Sadiq (as). Allah (sawt) the Wise, the Teacher. This Imam (as) is especially known for his role as imparter of knowledge in his schools in Madina.

Capricorn: Imam Redha (as). This one is tricky. But it fits as the only one left. ? Bestower of bounties and positions and position/honour. Imam (as) is famous in Iran for answering du'a of those who visit his shrine and bestowing bounty upon them. Imam (as) was treated with opposite in his life when he was used by the corrupt sunni khalifa and called heir-apparent and then denied bounty/position/his due and martyred without succession to the office of khalifa.

Edited by husainshahid
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Guest Teenage_youth

(salam)

Alright so the constellation are in honour of the Imams. But is it like general astrology, where they believe that being born under in a certain sign gives you certain caracteristics ?

Wasalam

Teenage

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In the context of human personality they can't be compared to the Imams as the Imams are perfect, men imperfect. Imams have no astrology or sun sign...the stars are created to honour them.

Sayyid Hossein Nasr writes words to the effect of a good person's personality will have a celestial prototype based around the constellation's moulding of the personality.

The 72 traits of 'goodness' can be found in anyone born under any of these signs, as can the 72 traits of ignorance. In a personality no sign's influence is more beneficial than another at the level of the Sun.

Good and evil people will be born on every day of the year.

Having said all this.....yes, personality would seem to have an element that is moulded using astrology: one of several influences e.g. upbringing, education, astrology in all its complexity, etc that effect the human psyhcology... and the most important influence being ISLAM -which invites a person to bring out the greatest virtues irrespective of sign, while still moulded by that sign as one of several influences. That's how I see it.

I don't get too bogged down in western books on the topic either as they over-rate the influencve of astrology on personality making it seem as if people are not in charge of their own free-will - that is wrong, very wrong.

PS many westren astrologers devil-worship so I stay away from them and take their words very cautiously.

One example of a good person who corresponded to his 'celestial prototype' was Ayatullah Khomeini - born in the first one or two days of Libra, with traits of Virgo potentially still present.

Look at his life's symbolism:

Libra=scales of justice

He achieved global fame for his interpretation of justice - as a great jurist, as a jurist who founded the theory and practice of wilayat-e-faqih (the ruling by the pious and learned jurist); combatting the Shah's injustice to bring justice to Iran in the islamic Revolution, all the way through to his justice in passing the fatwa against Salman Rushdie. All examples of his 'Libra' sign manifesting as powerful symbolism in his life. If you believe in cusps, which I think probably do exist given some islamic work which speaks of a spectrum of human personality in the zodiac...then the residual Virgo traits still very strong when he was born symbolise his work ethic, asceticism and 'no-nonsense' attitude to religion. The good people out of those born on the Libra - Virgo cusp can be drawn to mysticism I read in books...they also are of the type who feel their duties are greater the higher they rise in rank ie the more senior they become 'spiritually' the harder they exert themselves.

Edited by husainshahid
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012.004

YUSUFALI: Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"

PICKTHAL: When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me.

SHAKIR: When Yusuf said to his father: O my father! surely I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon-- I saw them making obeisance to me.

I dont know if this relates, The Sun seems symbollic of the Prophet, the Moon Imam Ali, and the other 11 are the remaining 11 imams?

Maybe i read too much into things.

or maybe its just cool.

-

rahat

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Very well-argued case. This is fascinating and I think more people need to be aware of this, including non-Shia and non-muslims.

Scientifically it is known that the Moon creates events as powerful as the tides in the ocean...what then of its effect on something as delicate as the mind. Thinking more broadly, the sun has massive effects on the earth and its life and life on earth would cease without it ....if it these astral bodies have these well-documented scisntific effects, what about their effect on the mind ...yes, it's more like astronomy. But in islamic science the words used to describe the two are the same and there is no distinction: 'ilm-e-nujum: simply 'knowledge of the stars'.

But I get the feeling from the above that the predictive side is to be steered clear off. And there is a danger people may suffer from delusions as to who they are ie stereotypes of signs, which are false. Indeed, I have read in a newspaper that there is no difference in the numbers of people holding top academic positions according to star sign: all are equally represented. I say that just to put this enthralling discussion into context.

Edited by Malang1000
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YaAliMadath

There are references to the stars in the Qur'an - I guess many must tie in with astrology - I'm no expert though on the field - I opened this thread to find out more myself

The Imams spoke about astrology that it was a very powerful science and that using it a man could estimate how many reeds there were in a lake said Imam Ali (as). BUT they cautioned against divinatory aspects and predictions, but left a few stern warnings such as important elective affairs where you have a choice in setting the time - these should not be conducted with a Moon in the sign of Scorpio. Imam Ali (as) said that last one, and the ulema verified it when I asked them once.

But Imam Ali (as) also warned NOT to believe what astrologers peddle as it is not the real science, only misleading bits of it, and if the person divinates they go to hell. Imam Ali (as) said it's better to begin the day with Bismillah...that's the best way to start events. I'm not rinto the predictive side for these reasons...that's dangerous and could be flawed from an astrologer who's peddling pseudo-science and not the real deal. I'm inot the symbolism and the grand themes...that's educational...I think the personality side can also help you understand how some kaffirs behave. There's the famous story of the astrologer who came to Imam Ali (as) while he was setting off for the Battle of nahrwan against the kharijees, and the astrologer saidt he Imam (as) would be dealt a crushing defeat....Imam (as) paid no attention, and as we know Nahrwan was the most decisive victory for the muslim army in history.

Rasulallah (saws) said the stars start and end in Ali (as) ie if the constellation and sign of Aries symboloise him as detailed above, then I guess that, thinking about it, the zodiac DOES start and end in that constellation of stars set up to honour Imam Ali (as), where pisces meets aries ie vernal equinox, as the zodiac is a circle.

Alpha meets omega in Imam Ali (as) - the beginning and the end.

YaAliMadad

Edited by XtremeMalang
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  • 9 months later...
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(salam)

The Imams spoke about astrology that it was a very powerful science and that using it a man could estimate how many reeds there were in a lake said Imam Ali . BUT they cautioned against divinatory aspects and predictions, but left a few stern warnings such as important elective affairs where you have a choice in setting the time - these should not be conducted with a Moon in the sign of Scorpio. Imam Ali  said that last one, and the ulema verified it when I asked them once.

But Imam Ali  also warned NOT to believe what astrologers peddle as it is not the real science, only misleading bits of it, and if the person divinates they go to hell. Imam Ali  said it's better to begin the day with Bismillah...that's the best way to start events

Is it correct to deduce then that we shouldn't be reading our horoscope in the newspaper? is it haraam? It seems from the above that it is, but I have seen horoscopes in religious publications also like Imamiya Jantree...haraam or halaal?

Syeda

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Guest abaleada

Whose is the knowledge of the future?

Anyway, the system by which current astrology and horoscopes has not changed from thousands of years ago. Since then, the constellations have shifted over by one.

Additionally, the horoscopes are usually written so vaguely tha they would apply to anyone at all, even if you shifted over by two. People who feel the need to refer to horoscopes in order to find out how their day will be - do you remember saying la ilaha illa Allah not long ago? Good. Stop forgetting about that.

*rolling eyes*

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Well I asked my moulana, heres the response:

Prophet Idris was the inventor of writing, and propogated the science of astrology. However, as time when on it was ordained that ordinary people should not follow this practice, as evidenced in the following story:

In the time of Imam Ali there was a man who performed astrology. One night he saw a dream of fire sorrouding Imam Ali, and predicted that the Imam would die in the next jihad. He advised Imam Ali to not go, and the Imam did not follow his advice.

Obviously, Imam Ali returned without dying and went to see the man. He advised the man to stop performing astrological predictions because he did not have the proper ability to interpret the signs correctly.

(paraphrased convo ahead):

"In the dream," Imam Ali asked "was the fire coming from my mouth? Or was I being burned by it?"

The man replied he did not remember.

"If it came from my mouth (which it did), that would mean that I was victorious, if the fire was burning me that would mean that I was to be defeated. Do not practice astrology any more".

So if the Imams have ordered us not to follow ordinary people ... then why would you?

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Husainshahid mentioned :

Sayyid Hossein Nasr writes in his books on Shia mysticism that the 12 signs/constellations of the zodiac are created in honour of the 12 Imams.QUOTE]

Dear Husainshahid can you please let me know the name and details of the book of Sayyid Nasr you read about Zodiac and the 12 Imams.I am interested in gathering more informatiom on this interesting subject.Thank you!

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I have heard that the 12 constellations of the Zodiac (e.g.Capricorn, Aquarius etc) symbolise the 12 Imams, the Sun symbolises the Holy Prophet (saws) himself and the Moon Hadhrath Fatima (sa).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The moon is Imam Ali (pbuh) , maybe the whole system is Fatima Al Zahra' (pbuh) .

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