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THE_TRUTH

Cursing the Three..

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Does one have to curse?

It is a fara-e deen in Shi'a Islam.

Isn't knowing the truth, about what happened and how they manipulated and transmitting this truth to other Muslim people not enough? Isn't truth powerful enough to bring people to the right path?

It is not enough for one who wishes to follow all furu-e deen. The purpose is to keep oneself aware of khasara fidduniya wa'l aakhira of those who follow the wrong path. One who clearly distinguishes between the wrong ang right paths - through word and deed - will have greater moral strength and clearere focus to bring others to the right path.

Tabarra and cursing are two different things -- are they not?

Cursing is part of tabarra - it is distancing oneself from wrong doers through words.

@)

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It is a fara-e deen in Shi'a Islam.

It is not enough for one who wishes to follow all furu-e deen. The purpose is to keep oneself aware of khasara fidduniya wa'l aakhira of those who follow the wrong path. One who clearly distinguishes between the wrong ang right paths - through word and deed - will have greater moral strength and clearere focus to bring others to the right path.

Cursing is part of tabarra - it is distancing oneself from wrong doers through words.

@)

Chorro bhaee, next week someone else is gonna start another thread on the same issue, and next week, still another . . .

Tabarra, Azadaari, and particularly zanjeerzani, are always going to be attacked . . . always . . .

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Chorro bhaee, next week someone else is gonna start another thread on the same issue, and next week, still another . . .

Tabarra, Azadaari, and particularly zanjeerzani, are always going to be attacked . . . always . . .

Tabarra is equated with cursing most of the times. . .

Azadari is something non-Shia do not understand. . .

Both these issues should be properly understood and practiced. . .

Zanjeer zani, though, is a controversial issue. . .among Shia. . .

Edited by Jibran Haider

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It is a fara-e deen in Shi'a Islam.

It is not enough for one who wishes to follow all furu-e deen. The purpose is to keep oneself aware of khasara fidduniya wa'l aakhira of those who follow the wrong path. One who clearly distinguishes between the wrong ang right paths - through word and deed - will have greater moral strength and clearere focus to bring others to the right path.

Cursing is part of tabarra - it is distancing oneself from wrong doers through words.

@)

What about Imam Khomeini who said, One who creates conflict between shia and sunni is neither shia nor sunni

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What about Imam Khomeini who said, One who creates conflict between shia and sunni is neither shia nor sunni

Just an expressed opinion . . .

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You accuse me of things I have never done Mazher, so keep your dirty insults to yourself and don't try to defend yourself by quoting Quranic verses out of context for they don't apply to me!

Ya Ali!

Edited by Bahadur Singh

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Chorro bhaee, next week someone else is gonna start another thread on the same issue, and next week, still another . . .

Tabarra, Azadaari, and particularly zanjeerzani, are always going to be attacked . . . always . . .

(bismillah)

(salam)

I have never done zanjeer zani even when it was unanimously permitted by the marjayyah in terms of Grand Ayatullah Naeni's edict. Zanjeer zani is not a fara-e deen. I do not defend zanjeer zani.

One who opposes azadari per se cannot be a Shi'a of Ali (as). I have no issue with a non-Shi'a not believing in or not practising azadari.

However, tabarra is a fara-e deen. Cursing the tyrants has been recommended by infallibles (as). If some Shi'as feel that tyranny and usurpation by some should not be objected to in the manner recommended by the infallibles (as), I will take issue with it every week, nay every day, if necessary. As I have indicated the action (or rather lack of it) they are seeing as unifying is actually ecumenical.

@)

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What about Imam Khomeini who said, One who creates conflict between shia and sunni is neither shia nor sunni

(bismillah)

(salam)

To the best of my knowledge, Imam Khomeini (ra) never opposed the fara-e deen known as tabarra, nor did he ever oppose any curse that has been recommended by infallibles (as), e.g.

"Allaaahumma khus's'a anta awwala z'aalimin bil-laa'ni minnee wa abdaa bihee awwalan thummath thaaniya wath thaalitha war raabi-a; Allaahuma al-lana Yazeedabna Mu-a'wiyah khaamisan... (O my Allah, let the curse, I call down on the head of the first tyrant stick like a leech; and stay put forever on the first, then the second, the third and the fourth. O my Allah, damn and call down evil on the fifth, Yazid son of Mua'wiyah...).

Please correct me if my two observations about Imam Khomeini (ra) are factually incorrect.

By performing the fara-e deen of tabarra and by invoking curses recommended by infallibles (as), we do not attack any part of Sunni faith. We curse those whose acts of usurpation and tyranny are recorded by Sunni historians themselves. If this act based on their own recollection of history is in conflict with personality worship practised by some Sunnis, it is for them to reconcile the personality worship with their recorded history, not for us to discontinue what has been rrecommended by infallibles (as).

If we start doing this, we would be justifying maniacs like Dr. Israr Ahmed, who insisted in a discussion on Geo TV channel that reference to usurpation implied in the phrase "wa khalifatuhu bila fasl" is basis enough for apostatization and consequent killing of Shi'as!

@)

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However, it is Sunni scholars who have publicly pronounced - and the lay Sunni has not opposed - the apostatization of Shi'a Muslims, not the other way round. This lays your hypothesis very much open to question.

Exactly!

I have referred the name of an Ahle Hadith Sunni scholar Maulana Ishaq Madni, link to whose speech about tyranny perpetrated by Umar bin Khattab on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) & his daughter (as) has been posted earlier on this forum by some discussants. I have also had opportunity to read Khilafat o Mulukiyat by Abul Aala Maududi and many books by Tahir ul Qadri, who have recounted in specific detail the tyrannies perpetrated by Muawiya bin Abu Sufian, considered by most Sunnis to be a sahabi.

As indicated above, the knowledgable Sunnis - who know not only Sunni but Shi'a Islam - specifically acknowledge the tyranny perpetrated by the likes of Umar bin Khattab and Muawiya bin Abu Sufian. The 'inherited' ones lack knowledge about Sunni Islam - what to talk of Shi'a - to enter any meaningful dialogue.

@)

how does the Sunni scholars who announced Shias as kafir defeat my theory that most Sunnis grow up learning about Islam but not much about Shias.

the knowledgable Sunnis who know both Sunni and Shia Islam....right because there are what 2-3 of these scholars? u find one whos views fall into urs and these men equal all of those Sunni scholars who know Shia Islam as well.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Imam ja'far as- Sadiq used to curse the 3 after every salat because they are the reason why imam hussain was killed so brutily and their the cause of sunni and shia.

^ Quick question, can you point out an instance where an Imam cursed the 3 by naming them?

Hasan Sajjad

President

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WEll, as per the practices and hopes of Mr. Abuzar above, lets see the non shia uniting with the shia who do tabarra and l'aanat, but do not curse

(bismillah)

(salam)

If 'unity' requires us to be ecumenical - i.e. leave our way and adopt that of the one(s) we wish to unite with, Mr. Abuzar would rather not have this so-called 'unity'.

If, on the other hand, unity lets Shi'as and Sunnis remain true to their usul-e deen and furu-e deen, Mr. Abuzar is all for such unity.

And by the way, the tabarra practised by Mr. Abuzar is what his infallible Imams (as) have taught him, and depicts an abhorrence for the vile acts of those being cursed. It is not a personal exercise in personality worship or vilification.

@)

P.S: Normally, I do not go along with personalization of discussion. My preference to comment on what is being said rather than on the one saying it. Following this, it is my rule not to respond in kind to attempts at personalization of discussion. B)

Edited by Abuzar

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(bismillah)

(salam)

how does the Sunni scholars who announced Shias as kafir defeat my theory that most Sunnis grow up learning about Islam but not much about Shias.

This act of Sunni scholars has found support - or at least lack of opposition - among common Sunnis. Such support could not have come without an assumption of being knowledgable about the other (in this case, Shi'a) - even if such 'knowledge' is based on doubtful secondary sources by biased Sunni writers and orators rather than primary Shi'a sources.

So, quite a few Sunnis 'learn' about Shi'ism, but since such 'learning' is about what some biased mullahs try to present as Shi'a Islam, rather than what actually is Shi'a Islam, they end up 'learning' about - and hating - something that doesn't exist in reality. Such common Sunnis also tend not to learn much about their own faith, and often confuse history of Muslims with religion - one result of which is their incorrect assumption that veneration of sahaba is part of the faith of Sunni Islam.

The hypothesis that they do learn about Sunni Islam but not about Shi'a Islam thus becomes open to question.

the knowledgable Sunnis who know both Sunni and Shia Islam....right because there are what 2-3 of these scholars? u find one whos views fall into urs and these men equal all of those Sunni scholars who know Shia Islam as well.

The implication being that what Sunni scholars Maulanas Maududi, Tahir ul Qadri and Ishaq Madni (from three different sub-sects of Sunnis) have quoted from primary Sunni historical sources is not correct according to Sunnis? A bit paradoxical, one might say! :huh:

@)

Edited by Abuzar

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(bismillah)

(salam)

How abot we work on tolerance first before we move on to Unity. One step at a time.
Yes. As long as tolerance does not lead to compromising one's own beliefs
Tolerance is the first step towards unity. . .

In the broader sense, Unity means keeping your own beliefs with a feel of respect for the others. . .

Thus, tolerance yields unity . . .automatically. . .

they are not different. . .

also, compromise on our beliefs is not unity. . .it is called merging. . .

You are confusing tolerance and unity.

They are different philosophical and practical categories

Unity is advanced phenomenon of tolerance. . .

a toddler. . .becomes a wrestler. . .

Wrong concvet and inapplicable analogy . . . not even 0.01 per cent of toddlers become wrestlers
It is therefore we do not see any tolerance and unity among factions of a religion and among religions of the world. . . applicable analogy :P
^

Okay . . . let's campaign then to make ALL toddlers in the muslim world wrestlers

However, it is Sunni scholars who have publicly pronounced - and the lay Sunni has not opposed - the apostatization of Shi'a Muslims, not the other way round. This lays your hypothesis very much open to question.

Exactly!

I have referred the name of an Ahle Hadith Sunni scholar Maulana Ishaq Madni, link to whose speech about tyranny perpetrated by Umar bin Khattab on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) & his daughter (as) has been posted earlier on this forum by some discussants. I have also had opportunity to read Khilafat o Mulukiyat by Abul Aala Maududi and many books by Tahir ul Qadri, who have recounted in specific detail the tyrannies perpetrated by Muawiya bin Abu Sufian, considered by most Sunnis to be a sahabi.

As indicated above, the knowledgable Sunnis - who know not only Sunni but Shi'a Islam - specifically acknowledge the tyranny perpetrated by the likes of Umar bin Khattab and Muawiya bin Abu Sufian. The 'inherited' ones lack knowledge about Sunni Islam - what to talk of Shi'a - to enter any meaningful dialogue. @)

Tolerance of what?
Maybe towards each others' beliefs?
May be towards the denail of what we Shia deem to be Haqq?
Does one have to curse?

Isn't knowing the truth, about what happened and how they manipulated and transmitting this truth to other Muslim people not enough? Isn't truth powerful enough to bring people to the right path?

Tabarra and cursing are two different things -- are they not?

It is a fara-e deen in Shi'a Islam.

It is not enough for one who wishes to follow all furu-e deen. The purpose is to keep oneself aware of khasara fidduniya wa'l aakhira of those who follow the wrong path. One who clearly distinguishes between the wrong ang right paths - through word and deed - will have greater moral strength and clearere focus to bring others to the right path.

Cursing is part of tabarra - it is distancing oneself from wrong doers through words.

@)

Chorro bhaee, next week someone else is gonna start another thread on the same issue, and next week, still another . . .

Tabarra, Azadaari, and particularly zanjeerzani, are always going to be attacked . . . always . . .

Tabarra is equated with cursing most of the times. . .Azadari is something non-Shia do not understand. . .Both these issues should be properly understood and practiced. . .

Zanjeer zani, though, is a controversial issue. . .among Shia. . .

What about Imam Khomeini who said, One who creates conflict between shia and sunni is neither shia nor sunni
Just an expressed opinion . . .
(bismillah)

(salam)

I have never done zanjeer zani even when it was unanimously permitted by the marjayyah in terms of Grand Ayatullah Naeni's edict. Zanjeer zani is not a fara-e deen. I do not defend zanjeer zani.

One who opposes azadari per se cannot be a Shi'a of Ali (as). I have no issue with a non-Shi'a not believing in or not practising azadari.

However, tabarra is a fara-e deen. Cursing the tyrants has been recommended by infallibles (as). If some Shi'as feel that tyranny and usurpation by some should not be objected to in the manner recommended by the infallibles (as), I will take issue with it every week, nay every day, if necessary. As I have indicated the action (or rather lack of it) they are seeing as unifying is actually ecumenical.

@)

Just seeking enlightenment. Remember I'm a nau-shia

All these above probably cover most of the ground about the core subject of this discussion.

The question, however, remains . . .

Are those people who call themselves Muslims and yet rebel against Allah, and Allah's appointed, muslims or munafeqs . . .

Edited by Rawshni

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(salam)

@Rawshni

I think that this way of asking the question is already a provocation in itself.

Even originally, the assertion is false, because munafiq is somebody who shows a face while hiding the other one, what is not the case of the majority of people here.

I believe that everybody says that he thinks of being true.

If there is a single word for resumer all Quran, I shall say that it is the word tawhid: God's uniqueness. However it is the common denominateur for us all. Thus we are all true Moslems.

Now, and in the same way that God put preferences and created levels between the prophets, there are also levels between believiers. But some is the level, we remain Moslem.

I think that it's time to stop unloading our internal hatred and our frustrations on false targets. The enemy is somewhere else.

ÓæÑÉ ÇáÅÓÑÇÁ - ÓæÑÉ 17 - ÂíÉ 80

æÞá ÑÈ ÇÏÎáäí ãÏÎá ÕÏÞ æÇÎÑÌäí ãÎÑÌ ÕÏÞ æÇÌÚá áí ãä áÏäß ÓáØÇäÇ äÕíÑÇ

And say: My Lord! Cause me to come in with a firm incoming and to go out with a firm outgoing. And give me from Thy presence a sustaining Power. (Quran, 17:80)

wassalam

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if the Imams, and all major scholars havent, why should a bunch of punks like us start cursing people whom we never met and only know about via 100th hand infomation?

We wont be asked about their deeds, if they did wrong, its their problem.

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the Imams, and all major scholars havent, why should a bunch of punks like us start cursing people whom we never met and only know about via 100th hand infomation?

We wont be asked about their deeds, if they did wrong, its their problem.

^

Ziarat Aashureh . . . read it

Tabarra. . .or. . .sending "laa'nat" on the enemies of religion (of Allah, Prophets, Imams) is the way of disassociating ourselves from them. . .and Quran repeates it several times. . .

It is of great importance to identify those who rebel against Allah and his Chosen, in any period of time thoroughout the history of universe. . .and Quran names some of them, and recounts qualities of those who had to come in future, and gives us a yardstick in form of a living Infallible to know what and who is right or wrong. . .

Its a mistake to equate this ^ with abuses in street language. . of which, unfortunately many Shia are fond of. . .

Islam forbids us to use abusive language in any way. . .Neither Prophet nor his 12 successors did this. . .

In short, Tabarra should not be equated with abuses. . .

And yes, I love Ziyarat-e-Ashura. . .

Edited by Jibran Haider

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Tabarra. . .or. . .sending "laa'nat" on the enemies of religion (of Allah, Prophets, Imams) is the way of disassociating ourselves from them. . .and Quran repeates it several times. . .

It is of great importance to identify those who rebel against Allah and his Chosen, in any period of time thoroughout the history of universe. . .and Quran names some of them, and recounts qualities of those who had to come in future, and gives us a yardstick in form of a living Infallible to know what and who is right or wrong. . .

Its a mistake to equate this ^ with abuses in street language. . of which, unfortunately many Shia are fond of. . .

Islam forbids us to use abusive language in any way. . .Neither Prophet nor his 12 successors did this. . .

In short, Tabarra should not be equated with abuses. . .

And yes, I love Ziyarat-e-Ashura. . .

(bismillah)

"Allah humma all'ann awwal-e-ghaasib wa thani-e-ghaasib wa thalth-e-ghaasib wa kulluhumm ghaasibeen b'aadahumm"

Is this abusive language, is this prohibited?

Please guide

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(bismillah)

(salam)

If 'unity' requires us to be ecumenical - i.e. leave our way and adopt that of the one(s) we wish to unite with, Mr. Abuzar would rather not have this so-called 'unity'.

If, on the other hand, unity lets Shi'as and Sunnis remain true to their usul-e deen and furu-e deen, Mr. Abuzar is all for such unity.

And by the way, the tabarra practised by Mr. Abuzar is what his infallible Imams (as) have taught him, and depicts an abhorrence for the vile acts of those being cursed. It is not a personal exercise in personality worship or vilification.

@)

P.S: Normally, I do not go along with personalization of discussion. My preference to comment on what is being said rather than on the one saying it. Following this, it is my rule not to respond in kind to attempts at personalization of discussion. B)

(salam)

First things first. If naming you in my quoted post has hurt your sentiments, please accept my sincere regrets. Hurting you was never the intention. nor was the intention a personal attack.

Even in my family i'm often considered too harsh a critic of some. That, however does not convince me that the ideological path I follow is wrong.

On the issue of "unity" among Shia and non-Shia first of all the question which remains to be decided is with whom among all those non-Shia who call themselves muslims. There are far too many species of "muslims" around. Or is it with all this motley crowd, who each excel in takfeer of all others except themselves.

Ten comes the questions, already asked by a number of others here . . . unity forwhat cause, and unity against whom?

Wasslaamun mann ittaba al huda ...

(salam)

@Rawshni

I think that this way of asking the question is already a provocation in itself.

Even originally, the assertion is false, because munafiq is somebody who shows a face while hiding the other one, what is not the case of the majority of people here.

I believe that everybody says that he thinks of being true.

If there is a single word for resumer all Quran, I shall say that it is the word tawhid: God's uniqueness. However it is the common denominateur for us all. Thus we are all true Moslems.

Now, and in the same way that God put preferences and created levels between the prophets, there are also levels between believiers. But some is the level, we remain Moslem.

I think that it's time to stop unloading our internal hatred and our frustrations on false targets. The enemy is somewhere else.

ÓæÑÉ ÇáÅÓÑÇÁ - ÓæÑÉ 17 - ÂíÉ 80

æÞá ÑÈ ÇÏÎáäí ãÏÎá ÕÏÞ æÇÎÑÌäí ãÎÑÌ ÕÏÞ æÇÌÚá áí ãä áÏäß ÓáØÇäÇ äÕíÑÇ

And say: My Lord! Cause me to come in with a firm incoming and to go out with a firm outgoing. And give me from Thy presence a sustaining Power. (Quran, 17:80)

wassalam

Tawhid is the first among the five usool-e-deen in the Shia faith. believing in tawhid only does not make make anyone a muslim. All five have to believed in. None of the five usool-e-deen is ignorable.

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(bismillah)

"Allah humma all'ann awwal-e-ghaasib wa thani-e-ghaasib wa thalth-e-ghaasib wa kulluhumm ghaasibeen b'aadahumm"

Is this abusive language, is this prohibited?

Please guide

It is not abusive. Rather such la'anat is recommended by our infallible leaders (as), as evidenced in the text of Ziarah al-Ashura.

@)

(salam)

First things first. If naming you in my quoted post has hurt your sentiments, please accept my sincere regrets. Hurting you was never the intention. nor was the intention a personal attack.

Even in my family i'm often considered too harsh a critic of some. That, however does not convince me that the ideological path I follow is wrong.

Wa alaikassalam. The tone was what seemed unnecessarily harsh. Anyway, let's close that chapter here.

On the issue of "unity" among Shia and non-Shia first of all the question which remains to be decided is with whom among all those non-Shia who call themselves muslims. There are far too many species of "muslims" around. Or is it with all this motley crowd, who each excel in takfeer of all others except themselves.

Excellent question!

Tawhid is the first among the five usool-e-deen in the Shia faith. believing in tawhid only does not make make anyone a muslim. All five have to believed in. None of the five usool-e-deen is ignorable.

Not only that; the usool are inter-dependent. Without belief in adl, nabuwwah and imamate and ma'ad belief in tawheed is incomplete.

@)

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Tawhid is the first among the five usool-e-deen in the Shia faith. believing in tawhid only does not make make anyone a muslim. All five have to believed in. None of the five usool-e-deen is ignorable.

(salam)

I did not approach the roots of the religion, usul a dine. All that I said concerns Quran in case we want to summarize it in a single word.

Indeed, God's uniqueness, tawhid, is the main axis of all Quran.

Thus, of favour, do not give me to say about the other dimensions that I did not want.

wassalam

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Not only that; the usool are inter-dependent. Without belief in adl, nabuwwah and imamate and ma'ad belief in tawheed is incomplete.

@)

Brother did you know why among 5 Usool-e-deen, a rejector of two of them (Adl & Imamate) is still considered Muslim and not Kafir. . .

Why is this so?

Edited by Jibran Haider

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Brother did you know why among 5 Usool-e-deen, a rejector of two of them (Adl & Imamate) is still considered Muslim and not Kafir. . .

Why is this so?

Sounds somewhat unfamilaiar to me.

What I've been hearing, from the day I was able to understand such things, is that its all an INDIVISIBLE package . . . you take all . . . you cannot pick and choose, to be muslim . . .

Let's see what Brother Abuzar says . . . I'll also ask Wilayah to post here

(salam)

@Rawshni

I think that this way of asking the question is already a provocation in itself.

Even originally, the assertion is false, because munafiq is somebody who shows a face while hiding the other one, what is not the case of the majority of people here.

I believe that everybody says that he thinks of being true.

If there is a single word for resumer all Quran, I shall say that it is the word tawhid: God's uniqueness. However it is the common denominateur for us all. Thus we are all true Moslems.

Now, and in the same way that God put preferences and created levels between the prophets, there are also levels between believiers. But some is the level, we remain Moslem.

I think that it's time to stop unloading our internal hatred and our frustrations on false targets. The enemy is somewhere else.

ÓæÑÉ ÇáÅÓÑÇÁ - ÓæÑÉ 17 - ÂíÉ 80

æÞá ÑÈ ÇÏÎáäí ãÏÎá ÕÏÞ æÇÎÑÌäí ãÎÑÌ ÕÏÞ æÇÌÚá áí ãä áÏäß ÓáØÇäÇ äÕíÑÇ

And say: My Lord! Cause me to come in with a firm incoming and to go out with a firm outgoing. And give me from Thy presence a sustaining Power. (Quran, 17:80)

wassalam

How is it provocative??

True, that a munafeq is one who shows one face at one time and another at another time.

Ghadeer, congratulations to Ali Ameer-ul-Mumineen, and then Thaqeefeh bani Saaadeh.

Need any more proof of munafeqat?

Edited by Rawshni

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Brother did you know why among 5 Usool-e-deen, a rejector of two of them (Adl & Imamate) is still considered Muslim and not Kafir. . .

Why is this so?

Basic usul-e deen are three: Tawheed, Nabuwwat & Ma'ad. Thus one who declares: "La Ilaha il-Allah, Muhammad (pbuh) ur Rasul Allah and believes in the day of judgement is a Muslim.

However, 'adl is a necessary corollary of tawheed, and imamate (i.e. continuation of Divine Guidance) a necessary corollary of nabuwwat, without believing in which one does become a believer in Islam-e Haqeeqi, otherwise known as Shi'a Islam.

As the Lady of Paradise (as) said in her speech after usurpation of the caliphate and Fadak: " ... Allah made belief to be a purification for you from polytheism. He made: ... Justice A harmony of the hearts. ... Our leadership (Ahlul Bayt) Safeguard from disunity.

@)

Edited by Abuzar

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Sounds somewhat unfamilaiar to me.

What I've been hearing, from the day I was able to understand such things, is that its all an INDIVISIBLE package . . . you take all . . . you cannot pick and choose, to be muslim . . .

Let's see what Brother Abuzar says . . . I'll also ask Wilayah to post here

How is it provocative??

True, that a munafeq is one who shows one face at one time and another at another time.

Ghadeer, congratulations to Ali Ameer-ul-Mumineen, and then Thaqeefeh bani Saaadeh.

Need any more proof of munafeqat?

(salam)

but, my sister, I spoke about people who are on this forum.

in addition, I agree with you to qualify people to which you refer, by the adjective on which we discuss. :D

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Basic usul-e deen are three: Tawheed, Nabuwwat & Ma'ad. Thus one who declares: "La Ilaha il-Allah, Muhammad (pbuh) ur Rasul Allah and believes in the day of judgement is a Muslim.

However, 'adl is a necessary corollary of tawheed, and imamate (i.e. continuation of Divine Guidance) a necessary corollary of nabuwwat, without believing in which one does become a believer in Islam-e Haqeeqi, otherwise known as Shi'a Islam.

As the Lady of Paradise (as) said in her speech after usurpation of the caliphate and Fadak: " ... Allah made belief to be a purification for you from polytheism. He made: ... Justice A harmony of the hearts. ... Our leadership (Ahlul Bayt) Safeguard from disunity.

@)

Thanks for your answers brother..

But I think that if usool are 5. . .no more no less than 5....then rejection of one of them should take you out of the fold of Islam...but it is not so...

also, how do we categories usool in major/basic and non-major?

does it mean that those 3 non-basic usool were originally not usools but were added later to strengthn Tauheed and Nabbuwat?

if this is so, why not believe in infallibility of Imams should be a 6th usool (sub-usool of Imamate?)

whats harm in that?

I hope u got my point. . .

btw, I'm being very open to know how counting of usool works. . .

wasslam

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Thanks for your answers brother..

But I think that if usool are 5. . .no more no less than 5....then rejection of one of them should take you out of the fold of Islam...but it is not so...

I respect your right to your thoughts. What I have quoted, however, is not what I think, but what I understood from Shi'a religious scholars.

also, how do we categories usool in major/basic and non-major?

A re-reading of my post would indicate that I have not categorised the principles into major or non-major.

does it mean that those 3 non-basic usool were originally not usools but were added later to strengthn Tauheed and Nabbuwat?

What you have based this conclusion on was not said.

if this is so, why not believe in infallibility of Imams should be a 6th usool (sub-usool of Imamate?)

As stated above, this is not so.

What is relevant is what is being believed as an inter-dependent whole. One who believes that there is a Divine Being who arranged Divine Guidance and will accordingly judge us on the Day of Judgement is a Muslim. If one doesn't believe in any part of this, he is not a Muslim. One who believes that there is a Just Divine Being who has arranged Continued Divine Guidance through Infallibles and will accordingly judge us on the Day of Judgement is a Momin. If one doesn't believe in any part of this, he is not a Momin.

whats harm in that?

I hope u got my point. . .

I did get your point. But I was apparently not able to convey mine.

btw, I'm being very open to know how counting of usool works. . .

And I hope and pray that you find it out from those who know.

@)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

(bismillah)

(salam)

Imam ja'far as- Sadiq used to curse the 3 after every salat because they are the reason why imam hussain was killed so brutily and their the cause of sunni and shia.

Probably this is what you are referring to:

Abi Yahya al-Madani narrated that Imam al-Sadiq (as)

taught the following Du'aa to be recited by the Shia after each

prayer:

"O Allah! I ask You by Your great Right/due to send blessings to Muhammad and his family, a thorough and everlasting

blessing, and enter their lovers and the believers in their

Wilaya --whether they are on the land, on the mountain, or on

the sea-- to the blessing of this Du'aa so that it lights up

their eyes. O Allah protect those of them who are away and

return them safely to their families, relieve their distressed

ones, cover the unclothed, fill their huger and their thirst,

fulfill the debt of the losers, facilitate the marriage of the

unmarried ones, heal their patients, brighten up their

deseased, help the oppressed ones amongst the lovers of the

family of Muhammad (PBUH&HF) and put out the fire of the

enemies.

O Allah! Increase in multiple Your curse, torment, and

punishment on those two who were disgraceful to Your blessing,

weakened Your Apostle, accused Your Prophet and opposed him,

broke his covenant on his executor and claimed the position of

him, changed his commandments, transformed his Sunna,

overturned his religion, belittled the value of Your Proofs,

initiated the trend of oppressing them, were pioneers of

disloyalty and disobedience to them, paved the way for

slaying, revolting and waging war against them, prevented Your

Khalifa from filling the holes/cracks and from setting right

the crooked and from implementing the commandments and from

manifesting the truth of the religion of Islam and from

establishing the limits of Quran.

O Allah! Curse those two and their two daughters and all those

who inclined to what they inclined and those who follow their

footsteps and pursued their way and those who headed their

innovations --the curse that could never come to anyone's mind

and People of Fire seek refuge from it. O Allah curse anyone

who yields to their saying and follows their commands and

calls people to them, and those who doubt in their Kufr from

the first to the last generations."

- Mustadrak al-Wasa'il, v5, p60, Hadith #5366

- Muhaj al-Da'awat, Sayyid Ibn Tawus, p333

- Bihar al-Anwar, v83/86, p59, Hadith #67

Things are quite explicit and comprehensive. No doubt the kalaam of the Imam (as) is imaam of kalaam

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