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THE_TRUTH

Cursing the Three..

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Salam all

Many people wonder and say why we curse. what's the point of cursing a person that has been dead year's ago, people also say God will take care of him no need to curse him. what are u going to get from cursing the person, He made a mistake and its over he's dead now.

Well let me ask this question to you people from all religions, if somone kills your father or your mother or anybody thats percious to you for no reason, WOULD YOU FORGIVE THEM, WOULD YOU CURSE THEM WOULD YOU FORGET ABOUT THEM !!!

Edited by THE_TRUTH

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Guest faithful8876_

(bismillah)

To the question the original poster has posed- That is ignorant Arab traditions that date back before Islam, age of ignorance and jahaliya where if someone killed even your goat you start CENTURIES long wars with them...to the point where you don't remember what caused the war, all you remember is who your enemies are.

That's not a very healthy way to live, it's not realistic, and not practical for this day and age. Our scholars warn us so much about increasing the division in the Ummah, yet we don't listen.

Sayid Baqir Al-7akeem, before he was murdered [may his soul rest in peace] STRESSED unity...it is our only hope in fighting the enemy.

No one is praising the 3 unmentionables, however you are not doing much da3wa or looking half decent when you run around cursing them yourself. Their actions are noted in history and it reflects their character...in order to help people see the light you have to consider your own actions.

Wa Allahu A3lam

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asalamu alaykum

i couldnt agree more ^

and if you want to do tabara

say lanat Allah on the enemies of ahlul bayt , that way you remove any doubt or any chance of fitna or more segregation and fulfilled the motive as well

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^ Quick question, can you point out an instance where an Imam cursed the 3 by naming them?

Hasan Sajjad

President

quick question, are you a masoom like the imams? By not cursing the enemies of islam because "the imams didn't do it" states that like to compare the masooms to yourself.

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^ Okay, Halo, then what is the point of hadeeth? If we aren't supposed to emulate the Imams, to the best of our ability, then tell me, what is the point?

It's one thing to do as Yousif suggested, and curse the enemies of Islam; it's another to live your life in bitterness and hatred. The Muslims living today are not to blame for what "those three" did, because sin is not passed down through generations, and we are only responsible for what WE do.

Edited by Sister Zaynab

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(salam)

It has nothing to do with personal grudges, it is a political and social move towards society to do so. The Quran says Dawood (as) and Isa (as) 'cursed' . I don't think any sunni or shia can claim more compassion then Dawood (as) and Isa (as), or having more wisdom and goodwill.

It is important to curse taghoots and those who support them in every age, because, it shows you understand Islam and also it makes people recognize oppression is not acceptable, nor is supporting those who oppress acceptable

Imam Zainal Abideen (as) in Saheefa Sajadiya curses all those who took the positions of the Imams (as) and corrupted the commands of Allah (swt), and all those who support them and follow them.

Do you have more forbearance, understanding, more goodwill to the umma, then Imam (as)? No, ofcourse not.

We should constantly curse oppressors and their supporters PUBLICALLY (CAUSE SECRETLY WE SHOULD DO THIKRALLAH INSTEAD - WHY REMEMBER SUCH SCUM?) as all true human beings do. This helps the cause of justice and truth with society, our niya should not be any personal grudge, otherwise, constantly cursing Satan is more important, however, the cursing in Quran and Du'as and Hadiths are all political, they are specifically about the unjust rulers and their supporters and the those who hide the truth and cause corruption in religion. Also, scholars who neglected their duties in rising up for justice, are specifically those cursed on tongue of Dawood (as) and Isa (as) according to the sermon of Mina of Imam Hussain (as). Cursing sometimes sends out a strong message, it is both in Quran and Hadiths and just because some people do it out of emotion and personal reasons, it doesn't mean cursing should be condemned.

Edited by Link

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Granted, but it doesn't mean it should be your whole existence, either. I curse them in my heart, for what they did, but to make THAT your entire religion is NOT right. Islam means "peace," not "hatred."

Edited by Sister Zaynab

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Love and hatred are never separated except in hippi land. Hate is the lack of love and love is the lack of hate. So you either love oppressors or you hate them.

Also:

If you love oppressed muslims you have to hate their oppressors.

If you love Mohammad (pbuh), you have to hate his enemies.

If you love the Prophets (as), you have to hate their killers.

If you love Ahlulbayt (as), you have to hate their enemies.

Otherwise, it's not really love. It is just lip service.

I also sincerely believe anyone with a gram of love to Mauwiya (LA) doesn't love Ali (as).

Rasool (pbuh) said truthfully only a believer canl ove Ali (as) and only a hypocrit can hate him.

Love of Ali (as) is something beyond lip service here and it is beyond tricking onself that they love Ali (as) while saying and believing and doing many things that are contrary to that.

Hypocrits these days have all deluded themselves about Ali (as).

Edited by Link

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I don't have the specific quotations with me right now, but in Hayatul Quloob and other traditions from the Imams, both the Prophet and Imams would repeatedly denounce "the 3" by name. In volume 2, there are repeated occasions where the Prophet does so against Abu Bakr and Umar.

-

rahat

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Guest DjibrilCisse

Link, ahsant brother. Very interesting and informative posts.

In the Qur'an several types of people are cursed, including the munafiqeen (hypocrites), the kadhibeen (liars) and the dhalimeen (roughly translated to cruel or unjust people).

Whoever fits these descriptions is therefore cursed by Allah.

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^ Okay, Halo, then what is the point of hadeeth? If we aren't supposed to emulate the Imams, to the best of our ability, then tell me, what is the point?

It's one thing to do as Yousif suggested, and curse the enemies of Islam; it's another to live your life in bitterness and hatred. The Muslims living today are not to blame for what "those three" did, because sin is not passed down through generations, and we are only responsible for what WE do.

People emulate but do not actually have a true love for them. The fact of the matter is that the shias who curse those three understand the reason why. Once someone comprehends the roots of Islam then they will realize how many atrocities were committed against the holy family. The atrocities committed against the holy family are being repeated against their (holy family) followers. THe roots of evil have committed nothing but inhuman acts of terrorism against the religion of Islam, so that is why the cursing is simply an understanding of the religion. We have tabara in the furoor-e-deen, so we can justify cursing through that, but we also have logic which justifies that we want nothing more than the exposure of evil hiding under the veil of islam.

Honestly, how can anyone not curse omar for murdering the prophet (pbuh)'s daughter. The vicious act is so horrible that the lion of Allah, Imam Ali (as), shouted and cried while performing gusal-e-mayat.

Forget about murder is haram, the fact that someone would assault a pregnant woman, besides the fact that she is the Prophet (pbuh)'s daughter, is not humane. This is despicable.

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(bismillah)

To the question the original poster has posed- That is ignorant Arab traditions that date back before Islam, age of ignorance and jahaliya where if someone killed even your goat you start CENTURIES long wars with them...to the point where you don't remember what caused the war, all you remember is who your enemies are.

That's not a very healthy way to live, it's not realistic, and not practical for this day and age. Our scholars warn us so much about increasing the division in the Ummah, yet we don't listen.

Sayid Baqir Al-7akeem, before he was murdered [may his soul rest in peace] STRESSED unity...it is our only hope in fighting the enemy.

No one is praising the 3 unmentionables, however you are not doing much da3wa or looking half decent when you run around cursing them yourself. Their actions are noted in history and it reflects their character...in order to help people see the light you have to consider your own actions.

Wa Allahu A3lam

mashallah

Love and hatred are never separated except in hippi land. Hate is the lack of love and love is the lack of hate. So you either love oppressors or you hate them.

Also:

If you love oppressed muslims you have to hate their oppressors.

If you love Mohammad (pbuh), you have to hate his enemies.

If you love the Prophets (as), you have to hate their killers.

If you love Ahlulbayt (as), you have to hate their enemies.

Otherwise, it's not really love. It is just lip service.

I also sincerely believe anyone with a gram of love to Mauwiya (LA) doesn't love Ali (as).

Rasool (pbuh) said truthfully only a believer canl ove Ali (as) and only a hypocrit can hate him.

Love of Ali (as) is something beyond lip service here and it is beyond tricking onself that they love Ali (as) while saying and believing and doing many things that are contrary to that.

Hypocrits these days have all deluded themselves about Ali (as).

you claim his closest friends and father-in-laws as his enemies lol

Link, ahsant brother. Very interesting and informative posts.

In the Qur'an several types of people are cursed, including the munafiqeen (hypocrites), the kadhibeen (liars) and the dhalimeen (roughly translated to cruel or unjust people).

Whoever fits these descriptions is therefore cursed by Allah.

who are you bunch of rafidah from the sunnah to specify the closest sahaba and the shaykhan as the cursed ones by Allah?

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Guest DjibrilCisse
Link, ahsant brother. Very interesting and informative posts.

In the Qur'an several types of people are cursed, including the munafiqeen (hypocrites), the kadhibeen (liars) and the dhalimeen (roughly translated to cruel or unjust people).

Whoever fits these descriptions is therefore cursed by Allah.

who are you bunch of rafidah from the sunnah to specify the closest sahaba and the shaykhan as the cursed ones by Allah?

My dear brother, you are quick to call names and to jump to agressive conclusions. Did I say that Allah cursed any specific person? No, I simply added a reminder to certain Qur'anic elements. You will not find the name or the description of any one single person in my post. I simply stated the fact: Allah has cursed the dhalimeen, the kadhibeen and the munafiqeen, as well as others, in the Holy Qur'an.

Therefore, whoever fits this category is cursed.

So I ask you, where did I refer to the closest sahaba and the shaykhan ?

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Granted, but it doesn't mean it should be your whole existence, either. I curse them in my heart, for what they did, but to make THAT your entire religion is NOT right. Islam means "peace," not "hatred."

amen sister!

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^ Quick question, can you point out an instance where an Imam cursed the 3 by naming them?

Hasan Sajjad

President

Salam

If this is your question, then what would you comment on the Sermon of Imam Ali (as) in Nahjul Balagha:

This is just a part of that sermon:

The famous sermon of "Shiqshiqayya". A description of the first three Caliphs and Imam Ali's (A.S.) patience over the usurpation of his rights.

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Qahafa (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death).

I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

(Then Hazrat Ali (as) quoted al-A'sha's verse):

My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.

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Some questions to ponder before any act:

(1) What is its importance?

(2) What is its benefit /or harm?

__________________________

Cursing is an extreme declaration of disgust, mixed with prayer to God against those being cursed.

If one is going to curse another, then one has to first be sure that they do not fit the same category.

For example, how can one curse the Kadhibeen, if they lie themselves?

Cursing a specific person is a much more delicate issue.

We see that the trend in our Aimmah is not to curse anyone by name,

except in very extreme circumstances (like the deserving Yazeed).

Per my understanding, the Imams did not take the line of cursing the first 3 caliphs.

On the contrary, they took the line of engagement, advisory and influence over direction.

According to them, it was better for Islam to work with the estashblishment, rather than fight it (or curse it).

That would be of more benefit, even though the establishment was considered illegitimate government.

This brings to the second point:

What is the benefit or harm? For anyone who hates the first three-

There is no benefit in cursing except emotional fulfillment.

But there is much harm.

Firstly the trend of Imams is not being followed.

The Imams sought engagement, rather than fighting or cursing.

Secondly, such acts cause:

Fitna, Disunity, hatred, and burning of bridges (rather than building them).

Infact importance in Islam is following the command of God through Qur'an and Sunnah. And the best way to understand these is through the Ahlul-Bayt (as).

We must focus on that, not on useless or harmful things.

W/s.

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Some questions to ponder before any act:

(1) What is its importance?

(2) What is its benefit /or harm?

__________________________

Cursing is an extreme declaration of disgust, mixed with prayer to God against those being cursed.

If one is going to curse another, then one has to first be sure that they do not fit the same category.

For example, how can one curse the Kadhibeen, if they lie themselves?

Cursing a specific person is a much more delicate issue.

We see that the trend in our Aimmah is not to curse anyone by name,

except in very extreme circumstances (like the deserving Yazeed).

Per my understanding, the Imams did not take the line of cursing the first 3 caliphs.

On the contrary, they took the line of engagement, advisory and influence over direction.

According to them, it was better for Islam to work with the estashblishment, rather than fight it (or curse it).

That would be of more benefit, even though the establishment was considered illegitimate government.

This brings to the second point:

What is the benefit or harm? For anyone who hates the first three-

There is no benefit in cursing except emotional fulfillment.

But there is much harm.

Firstly the trend of Imams is not being followed.

The Imams sought engagement, rather than fighting or cursing.

Secondly, such acts cause:

Fitna, Disunity, hatred, and burning of bridges (rather than building them).

Infact importance in Islam is following the command of God through Qur'an and Sunnah. And the best way to understand these is through the Ahlul-Bayt (as) .

We must focus on that, not on useless or harmful things.

W/s.

(salam)

:D

Said well my friend.

There where there is no profit for the faith is simply waste of time and fatal division

Edited by HusseinAliYounes

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Anyone who takes the name of the 3 when sending lanat is very arrogant. None of the Imams took their names, not even Imam Mahdi (as) in Ziyarte Nahiya. Who are we again? Oh yeah, we are the FOLLOWERS of these great men, I don't think they ever recommended us to take their names when sending lanat. The more we curse, the more fitna we cause, the more fitna that is caused the worse it is for every Muslim.

You seem to have gone through all the ahadith of Aimmah (as). If not, then you're arrogant to state such things as Imams (as) did not take names.

Imams (as) did indeed take names...but most often they're translated to fulan wa fulan[to show that it is obvious whom they're referring to].

Heck, why do you think the extremist sunnis are out to blow us up? Probably because we cannot control our tounges. Sure, it is not a rational reaction, but why give them a chance to even justify it?

And you think if we do STOP it for once and for all, the Sunnis are gonna stop blowing us up? You think thats what they want?

If, according to you, the Imams (as) did not curse them by names, they were still poisoned, weren't they? Their Shi'as were still massacred, oppressed, looted, god knows all the extreme injustice done to them.....

Next thing we'll know is that we'll have to stop believing in the Imamate of Imam Ali (as) in order to pacify the Sunnis.

Even Syed Sistanni adds "hazrat" before their names if he uses it. He uses a term of respect when mentioning them for a reason, unity. Something we shia are failing to understand due to our ignorance.

Syed Sistani used the word 'Hazrat' just as you've used the word 'President' for yourself.

Some questions to ponder before any act:

(1) What is its importance?

(2) What is its benefit /or harm?

__________________________

Cursing is an extreme declaration of disgust, mixed with prayer to God against those being cursed.

If one is going to curse another, then one has to first be sure that they do not fit the same category.

For example, how can one curse the Kadhibeen, if they lie themselves?

Cursing a specific person is a much more delicate issue.

We see that the trend in our Aimmah is not to curse anyone by name,

except in very extreme circumstances (like the deserving Yazeed).

Per my understanding, the Imams did not take the line of cursing the first 3 caliphs.

On the contrary, they took the line of engagement, advisory and influence over direction.

According to them, it was better for Islam to work with the estashblishment, rather than fight it (or curse it).

That would be of more benefit, even though the establishment was considered illegitimate government.

This brings to the second point:

What is the benefit or harm? For anyone who hates the first three-

There is no benefit in cursing except emotional fulfillment.

But there is much harm.

Firstly the trend of Imams is not being followed.

The Imams sought engagement, rather than fighting or cursing.

Secondly, such acts cause:

Fitna, Disunity, hatred, and burning of bridges (rather than building them).

Infact importance in Islam is following the command of God through Qur'an and Sunnah. And the best way to understand these is through the Ahlul-Bayt (as).

We must focus on that, not on useless or harmful things.

W/s.

You seem to be following your own Sunnah.

NOTE: I DO agree that the famous three shouldn't be cursed in public or in front of the Sunnis; but to blatantly deny that they've never been cursed or that their names are not being taken is outrightly false.

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NOTE: I DO agree that the famous three shouldn't be cursed in public or in front of the Sunnis; but to blatantly deny that they've never been cursed or that their names are not being taken is outrightly false.

Well, we do agree on the most important part.

Maybe we should simply consider, what would our Imams want?

I believe they would want us to do what is in the best interests of the Ummah.

And the best interests => seal off any avenues for fitna. And build bridges and Unity.

Was-salaam.

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Well, we do agree on the most important part.

Maybe we should simply consider, what would our Imams want?

I believe they would want us to do what is in the best interests of the Ummah.

And the best interests => seal off any avenues for fitna. And build bridges and Unity.

Was-salaam.

We've being trying to unite with the Sunnis right from the day Imam Ali (as)'s caliphate was usurped but did it result in anything? No! Infact, our opponents created excuses to create fitnah and labelled us as Rafidis.

What you say is not easy and I don't mind taking the first step towards unity [without compromising on our beliefs]; but the other party should also play their part in uniting with the Ummah. If they continue oppressing, persecuting, repressing us; whats the use of such unity? Should we lower our dignity in order to unite with them? Would our Imams (as) want us to lower ourselves in front of the Sunnis to beg for unity?

I believe, this delusive unity can never happen until Imam al-Asr (atf) reappears.

Also, I'm sure Imams (as) wouldn't have cursed the dhalimeen themselves if it were an hindrance towards the "best interests of the Ummah".

Wasalam.

Edited by SpIzo

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We've being trying to unite with the Sunnis right from the day Imam Ali (as) 's caliphate was usurped but did it result in anything? No! Infact, our opponents created excuses to create fitnah and labelled us as Rafidis.

What you say is not easy and I don't mind taking the first step towards unity [without compromising on our beliefs]; but the other party should also play their part in uniting with the Ummah. If they continue oppressing, persecuting, repressing us; whats the use of such unity? Should we lower our dignity in order to unite with them? Would our Imams (as) want us to lower ourselves in front of the Sunnis to beg for unity?

I believe, this delusive unity can never happen until Imam al-Asr (atf) reappears.

Also, I'm sure Imams (as) wouldn't have cursed the dhalimeen themselves if it were an hindrance towards the "best interests of the Ummah".

Wasalam.

(salam)

ÅÚÑÇÈí íÈÍË Úä äÇÞÊå ÃáÊí ÅÝÊÞÏåÇ ÈÍÌÉ Ãäøå ÊÑßåÇ Ýí ÑÚÇíÉ Çááå.

ÞÇá áå ÃáäÈíø ÕáÚã: ÅÚÞáåÇ æÊæßøá Úáì Çááå

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(salam)

ÅÚÑÇÈí íÈÍË Úä äÇÞÊå ÃáÊí ÅÝÊÞÏåÇ ÈÍÌÉ Ãäøå ÊÑßåÇ Ýí ÑÚÇíÉ Çááå.

ÞÇá áå ÃáäÈíø ÕáÚã: ÅÚÞáåÇ æÊæßøá Úáì Çááå

(salam)

I'm sorry I don't know Arabic so fluently. I just understood the last line that is the Holy Prophet (s) said: _________ reliance on Allah; the rest looked like "Arabic" to me. lol.

So would you please post the translation?

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We've being trying to unite with the Sunnis right from the day Imam Ali (as)'s caliphate was usurped but did it result in anything? No! Infact, our opponents created excuses to create fitnah and labelled us as Rafidis.

What you say is not easy and I don't mind taking the first step towards unity [without compromising on our beliefs]; but the other party should also play their part in uniting with the Ummah. If they continue oppressing, persecuting, repressing us; whats the use of such unity? Should we lower our dignity in order to unite with them? Would our Imams (as) want us to lower ourselves in front of the Sunnis to beg for unity?

I believe, this delusive unity can never happen until Imam al-Asr (atf) reappears.

Also, I'm sure Imams (as) wouldn't have cursed the dhalimeen themselves if it were an hindrance towards the "best interests of the Ummah".

Wasalam.

Salaams.

Alot of dis-unity is caused by mis-information and adoption of much rumours.

If we can target mis-information, remove rumours and mis-conceptions on both sides,

and identify what links us, is common amongst us, and more important than petty differences,

Then I believe we have a very real chance.

Infact such unity has always been in the works, but it needs to be accelerated.

As for your grievances-

The term "sunni" never existed during the time of the Caliphs.

So the people at that time, and the people today are different people.

There were no sunnis in those days. Sunnis did not perpetrate those crimes.

Sunnis are simply people who are trying to follow sunnah according to what they know.

What they do not know is the beautiful means of the Ahlul-Bayt to follow the Sunnah.

Also, the sunnis today do not know the true Shia. They have a horde of misconceptions.

Thats why they are wary of us, because they have been told lies & mis-conceptions about us.

1) Firstly, we must remove the wrong misconceptions.

Most of the misconceptions come from extremist Shia groups known as Ghullat.

The ghullat need to be separated and their influences totally ejected.

This should clarify the differences for them between us true Shia as vs. Ghallis.

2) We need to present the Sunnis with the Model, guidance and teachings of Ahlul-Bayt (as).

How can we expect them to embrace the Ahlul-Bayt (as) without knowing them?

So we need to teach ourselves about the Ahlul-Bayt (as), then teach it to them.

__________________________________________________

Lastly let me add: The Imams were never about themselves.

They were always about Allah (swt)- Remembering Him, preaching about Him, etc.

So how can we leave what they were about, and make deen about the Imams?

The Imams were a means, but the end is Allah (swt).

We must present Imams as the Means, but not the End.

I'm sure when people will see what a great means they are, they will embrace them.

That is why I said, the Imams do not care about things like cursings (except in extreme situations), etc.

That is too low for them. They care for Islamic revival and the best Worship of God.

That is the most important for them. If we can worship God and follow His Command,

to the best of our ability- Then we will have fufilled the dreams of the Imams.

I think the sunnis can agree with us on this common dream, as the centerpiece of UNITY:

To worship the One God and follow His Command, to the best of our abilities.

Was-salaam.

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(salam)

I'm sorry I don't know Arabic so fluently. I just understood the last line that is the Holy Prophet (s) said: _________ reliance on Allah; the rest looked like "Arabic" to me. lol.

So would you please post the translation?

(salam)

it is in connection with a Bedouin who complained to have lost his she-camel in spite of the fact that he left it under the protection of Allah. the prophet (pbuh) said to him: you attach it then you leaves it under the protection of Allah :)

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Anyone who takes the name of the 3 when sending lanat is very arrogant. None of the Imams took their names, not even Imam Mahdi (as) in Ziyarte Nahiya. Who are we again? Oh yeah, we are the FOLLOWERS of these great men, I don't think they ever recommended us to take their names when sending lanat. The more we curse, the more fitna we cause, the more fitna that is caused the worse it is for every Muslim.

Heck, why do you think the extremist sunnis are out to blow us up? Probably because we cannot control our tounges. Sure, it is not a rational reaction, but why give them a chance to even justify it?

Even in Dua Sanamay al Quraish, no NAMES are taken. Sure, references are made, lets keep it at that. Lets keep it at references and not be so blatant. This site does not allow it for a reason and that is for the sake of UNITY. Something that is much more important for us now.

Even Syed Sistanni adds "hazrat" before their names if he uses it. He uses a term of respect when mentioning them for a reason, unity. Something we shia are failing to understand due to our ignorance.

“The tongue is like the beast, if let loose, it devours.”

Hasan Sajjad

President

Hasan Sajjad

President

I never denied they REFERRED to them. But when did he explicitly take their NAME? What you see in parenthesis is the addition made by the narrator/translator.

Btw, he is not cursing them in this sermon. Imam Ali (as) DOES though make references to them and CURSES them in dua Sanamay al Quraish, BUT he never takes their name for a reason. I think we should follow suite.

Hasan Sajjad

President

Once again you are trying to be masoom. You are prone to mistakes which makes you imperfect. It seems as if you are defending sunnis. From the time of the Prophet we have seen muslims be the most corrupt and murderous. There is no fitna because this sort of stuff has been going on for a long time.

How can you justify a devoted shia from not cursing the killer of Bibi Fatima (as)?

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Once again you are trying to be masoom. You are prone to mistakes which makes you imperfect. It seems as if you are defending sunnis. From the time of the Prophet we have seen muslims be the most corrupt and murderous. There is no fitna because this sort of stuff has been going on for a long time.

How can you justify a devoted shia from not cursing the killer of Bibi Fatima (as)?

(salam)

i din't think you understand the concept of Islam or sunnah. the whole reason the Prophet (saww) and Imam's (as) were sent were as examples to us. we are SUPPOSED to folow their examples, although your contention seems to be that no we shouldn't because we are not massom. so maybe we shouldn;t pray either because we aren't masoom?

also when Imam ali (as) repremanded an individual, according to hadith, for cursing one of the caliphs, he was actually wrong? he should have let the man curse? if he was wrong, then you are saying he wasn't infallible, if he was right then you are wrong!

mashallah

you claim his closest friends and father-in-laws as his enemies lol

who are you bunch of rafidah from the sunnah to specify the closest sahaba and the shaykhan as the cursed ones by Allah?

(salam)

i think you posted this in the wrong forum, it belongs on sunnipath.com or something because it is the sunnis who are the rejectors for they rejected the sunnah of the Prophet (saww) in favour of the sunnah of abu bakr and umar.

also it would benefit you to read the book of Allah (SWT), the Quran for withuot it we see how you get misguided. it is very clear within the Quran that the wives of Prophets (saww) have deviated, and even their closest kin, a son. so forget so called friends and fahter in laws, if kin can deviate there is no precedent to say some sahaba can't, yet in all contradiction to the Quran, our sunni brothers continue to perpetrate this fallacy.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

www.al-islam.org

www.rafed.net

www.imamreza.net

www.sistani.org

www.leader.ir

have plenty of shia books by a whole heap of Shia 3uluma.

Can someone find me an instance on there where (la) was put after the names of the first three khalifs?

If you can't, can you tell me why the 3uluma' chose not to?

much appreciated.

wassalam

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I cannot speak for the aforementioned Ulema, but I just polished off volume 2 of Allamah Majlisi's "Hayatul Quloob".

In it, he vividly described how the Prophet regularly and publically cursed atleast 2 of the 3, and how Hazrat Salman Farsi and Hazrat Abu Dharr did the same.

-

rahat

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Using references are better. It gives the listener a reason not just a name. Likely, when Allah (swt) mentions the attributes of our 'Aimmah He uses references. There's a reason for that. If Allah simpily said, "Ali is the wali of Allah..." instead of "one who gives zakat while bowing..." anyone named Ali could claim that THIS verse is meant for him. But by giving a reference, it becomes OBVIOUS who Allah is talking about. This method should ALSO be used when giving Lanat.

To the person who says we can't emulate a Masoom is in the wrong. We as Humans cannot emulate the Noori personas of the 'Aimmah but we can emulate the insaani (human) personas of the 'Aimmah. The whole purpose of Tanzil (revelation) through a Prophet is that the people FOLLOW the Prophet.

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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I cannot speak for the aforementioned Ulema, but I just polished off volume 2 of Allamah Majlisi's "Hayatul Quloob".

In it, he vividly described how the Prophet regularly and publically cursed atleast 2 of the 3, and how Hazrat Salman Farsi and Hazrat Abu Dharr did the same.

-

rahat

Don't forget that Hayaat al Quloob isn't the most authentic book on the planet, it has discrepancies.

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Granted, but it doesn't mean it should be your whole existence, either. I curse them in my heart, for what they did, but to make THAT your entire religion is NOT right. Islam means "peace," not "hatred."

tabarra is not hatred.....its wajib........Allah curses in the quran ........also I personally have many hadeeths where imams (as) curse abu bakr and umar by name........

Salam Alykum..

I know someone, who is much higher than the masooms in rank and status. The masooms are nothing, nothing compared to his shadow, who cursed the 1st, 2nd and the 3rd.

Allah says:

ÝÃÐä ãÄÐä Èíäåã Ãä áÚäÉ Çááå Úáì ÇáÙÇáãíä

7:44 The curse of Allah is on evil doers .

And so, I hereby declare that cursing the first three caliphs is a recommended act, since by cursing them, we are simply following the divine Sunnah.

ÓäÉ Çááå Ýí ÇáÐíä ÎáæÇ ãä ÞÈá æáä ÊÌÏ áÓäÉ Çááå ÊÈÏíáÇ

That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old ; thou wilt not find for the way of Allah aught of power to change .

May Allah curse the first, the second and the third, and may he burn them in the hell fire.

Wa salam

excuse me?........masooms (as) are nothing compared to what?.......did you just say Allah swt has a shadow? is that not shirk? because you are describing Allah swt, you do not know what Allah is, so its better for you to be quiet...........Prophet (saw) said Only me and Ali know Allah, so BMIC a sinful man like you does not know Allah........wherever it says Allah in the Quran it means the attributes of Allah swt, I will leave you to figure out who are the attributes of Allah swt, I will give you a clue read verse 33:33 :)

Don't forget that Hayaat al Quloob isn't the most authentic book on the planet, it has discrepancies.

actually hayat al qulub volume 3 is authentic its my favourite book, I believe you are Mullah haji mehdi, you give lectures am i right?.......ive been to the one you gave at last years fatmiyah, however I have to say without being too aggressive on a public forum like this, that you cannot simply declare a book like hayat al qulub not authentic, its a very precious book with very precious hadeeths, i will not say anymore otherwise i may say something .......

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(bismillah)

Did not Imam Ali (as) name his children: Abu Bakar, Umar and Uthman???

We should not forget how our Ahlul Bayt suffered but at the same time we should not forget their tolerance and patience.

Cursing the three pushes Sunnis away from the Shia faith, instead of bringing them closer to us. I'm sure there are other ways to convey the truth to them other than presenting an argument based on anger and hatred.

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