Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Ali Yun Wali Ullah In Namaaz is Wajib

Rate this topic


~Ali

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

I guess if you do the taqleed of someone who says so, then thats up to you.

However, pretty much the seasoned scholars that I'm aware of - none allows it.

In fact, my understanding is that none considers it to even be part of Azaan...

(Even though they believe it could be recited [in Azaan] but only with intention of separation).

Was-salaam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

Yaa Ali Madad

Namaz & The 3rd Shahadat (Ali un Wali Ullah)

A complete Proof of recitation from Quran, Ahadith, Logic & the statements of Ullemas /Marajas

Namaz is a very important part of Deen-e- Islam and there is a Riwayat that if ones Namaz is accepted all his acts of worship will be accepted and if ones Namaz is not accepted all his acts of worship will be rejected. Hence it is compulsory on every one of us to make sure that we pray Namaz in a way which is accepted by God Almighty. Tashahud in Namaz is a very important

part of it .

Tashahud is standing witness to or giving testimony. All other sects of Islam / Muslims have consensus on tashahud as they all agree that be it Kalma or Azaan, Aqamah or Tashahud in every place only 2 testimonies i.e.

testifying the oneness of God & Prophet hood of Hazrat Mohammad ( pbuh & hp ) is enough, whereas Shias believe that the main difference between Shi’ ism and other sects is the acceptance of Wilayat-e- Moula Ali (as) so whereever we give the first 2 testimonies ( i.e. Touheed & Risalat ) we should immediately give the 3rd testimony, the wilayat of Moula Ali (as) and all shias believe that the Third testimony ( Ali un wali ullah ) is just as necessary as the first 2 testimonies. Unfortunately, since a few years because of the ignorance of Shias towards the orders of Quran and Holy Traditions of Aimma (as), just like other muslims we too have stopped reciting the Third Shahadat and have restricted ourselves to only 2 testimonies in Namaz. Our ignorance towards the orders of Quran and Ahadith

results in our shias raising questions and objections on the very basis of our sect i.e. Ali un wali ullah. Even though there are many books dedicated to prove the necessity of recitation of Ali un Wali Ullah in Namaz but the fact is that firstly these books are not in reach of everyone as they are

either in Arabic, Farsi or Urdu and many shias are not familiar with either of the languages, secondly our lives have become so hectic that we don’t even get enough time for our selves let alone reading such big and lengthy

books. This is the reason why we decided to compile this article with some undeniable proofs while keeping it as short as we possibly can.

We have to bear this in mind that just because something is not practiced at present time it does not mean that it is not a part of our act of worship. We all know that so many things have been changed in Namaz that it is now a very big problem between different sects of Muslims as they all have different ways to pray Namaz so accepting Namaz as it is practiced today cannot be justified without trying hard to find out the things which were originally part of Namaz but were struck off sometime back by the enemies of

Islam in a well planned and organized manner. We have to look and seek further deep down inside it if specially something is regarding the Wilayat of Moula Ali (as) as we surely know that this was the very things that the

rulers have tried their level best to eradicate and there was a time when just taking the name of Moula Ali (as) was enough to be killed by the tyrant rulers and their equally tyrant lobby. Thinking about such a time we have

to consider that how could anyone testify the wilayat of Ameer ul Momineen Ali ibn - e - Abi Talib (as) openly and loudly? Majority of people during those times used to do ‘ Taqayya ‘ just to save themselves from harm. This

period of Taqayya was so prolonged that Ali un wali ullah disappeared even from the thoughts of Shias themselves. Even our Aimma (as) refrained from openly teaching the Kalma which included Ali un Wali ullah to general public

but instead used to teach the complete Kalma to some trustworthy companions only who would then convey it to the lovers of Ahlul Bait (as) . Hence in the Book Usool Al Kafi there is a tradition ( Hadith ) of Imam Mohammad

Baqar (as) which says “ If we would have fixed the tashahud of Namaz , our followers and lovers ( Mawalis ) would have been killed “ . Hence if the recitation of Ali un Wali ullah in Tashahud is not practiced today it should

not be taken for granted but instead we should try and see if it was practiced earlier and if we could find the proofs in Saqalain ( Quran & Ahadith of Aimma (as) ). We should all try and find out the answers to the following questions which come to our mind regarding the Third Shahadat in

Namaz :

Does our faith and logic ( Aql ) allow us to recite Ali un Wali ullah in Tashahud of Namaz ?

Has Quran ever Ordered us to recite the third Shahadat ?

Are there any Ahadith ( Traditions of Aimma [as]) to support the recitation ?

How did Rasool-e-Khuda ( pbuh & hp ) and our Imam (as) used to recite Tashahud ?

What does the Fuqahas ( Islamic Clergy / Scholars) say about Third Shahadat ?

Now let us try and shed some light on each of the Questions separately :

Aql ( reasoning )

Normally at present time we only give 2 testimonies i.e. of Touheed & Risalat. In Arabic 2 testimonies are called Shahadatain whereas if the testimonies are at least 3 or more the word used in Arabic is Shahad’aat.

The word Shahadatain ( 2 testimonies ) cannot be found any where in Quran but the word Shahad’aat can be seen in Quran and that too in the context of Namaz. But if someone still refuses to stand witness to at least 3

testimonies , would that not be rejecting Quranic order ?

Surah Al Maida : Quran said “ Al Youma Akmalto Lakum Deenakum…… “ This Ayat was revealed on the day of Ghadeer and the word “ Al youm “ signifies that

on one special day one special thing happened which completed the deen ‘ Islam ‘ . The history stands witness that the thing that happened on that day was the announcement of Wilayat of Moula Ali (as). If we look at the aayaats that were sent before announcing the completion of Deen Islam we will notice that the order from God Almighty to convey this message was so strict that if this announcement was not made the Risalat of Rasool-e-Khuda ( pbuh & hp ) would have been in danger. If Rasool-e-Khuda (pbuh & hp ) would not have announced the Wilayat of Moula Ali (as) could his Risalat be saved? Could the Deen Islam be saved without this announcement ? Is Namaz not included in Deen ? Thus, if without testifying and announcing this Shahadat the Risalat of our Holy Prophet (pbuh & hp) was incomplete, The Deen Islam was incomplete - How can the prayers ( Namaz ) of anyone be

complete without it ?

Who doesn’t know that Tashahud is a part of Namaz (Prayers ) and the Namaz, which tashahud is a part of - Shaikh Mufeed says in his book “ Al Ikhtesas “ and other Ulemas in their own books quote from Imam Mohd Baqar

(as) - Imam (as) says ‘ Namaz is Ameer ul Momineen (as) ‘At quite many places it is quoted from Moula Ali (as)this saying “ Ana Salat ul Momin “ I am the Salat ( Namaz ) of Momin.

Is there any logic to exclude the testimony of some one who himself is “Namaz “ ?

QURAN :

Surah Al Muarij - Ayat 33 to 35

" And those who are upright in their testimonies (Shahadaatehum ), And those who keep a guard on their prayer, Those shall be in gardens, honoured"

It is important to note here that the word Shahad’aat ( Plural ) in Arabic is only used for at least 3 testimonies - It cannot be used for 2 testimonies , For 2 testimonies the word in Arabic is ‘ Shahadatain ‘

In the above Ayat-e-Quran God Almighty is describing the glories of people who testifies 3 Shahad’aat in their Namaz and safeguards their prayers ( Namaz ).

Surah Fatir - Ayat 10

[shakir 35:10] Whoever desires honor, then to Allah belongs the honor wholly. To Him do ascend the good words ( Al Kelam Al Tayyab ); and the good

deeds, lift them up, and (as for) those who plan evil deeds, they shall have a severe chastisement; and (as for) their plan, it shall perish.

In the above ayat of Quran the word used is "Al Kalem Al Tayyab" which is again in plural form (Sega-e-Jama) and as mentioned above in Arabic the plural form like this is only only used for Three or more. So the usage of

"Al Kalem Al Tayyab" or the The Purified (3 or More) Kalamas clearly indicates that the Kalma which reaches and is accepted by God Almighty consists of Three or more Kalma. Now if we see that majority of Muslims including some Shias only recite Two Kalmas (Kalma-e-Tauheed &

Kalma-e-Risalat) in Tashahud, allow me to say that this type of Kalama does not reach or is not accepted by God Almighty as he only accepts the shahadat

(witness) which consists of 3 or more Kalmas.

Now lets see how Imam Jafar e Sadiq (as) explains the words "Al Kalem Al Tayyab"

Tafseer Ayashi - Tafseer Saafi etc

Our Imam (as) said "Al Kalem Al Tayyab means the act of momin whereby he recites La illaha illallah - Mohammedun Rasool Allah and Ali un Wali ullah"

The above is an absolutely clear and undeniable proof that we should all recite Ali un Wali ullah not just in Kalma, Aazaan and Aqamah as compulsory part but also in (Tashahud) Namaz as an integral part.

TRADITIONS ( AHADITH ) :

In Tanveerul Eemaan by Shaikh Yaqoob Al Kulainy : Quotes a tradition from Rasool-e-Khuda ( pbuh & hp ) “ God instructed Hazrat Mohammad Mustafa when the Prophet (pbuh & hp ) was returning from Mairaj : God said ‘ inform this to your Ummat that Ali Wali ullah is Waseela between you and me so do not leave him. And remember that neither your Azaan will be complete without it nor Aqamat or Namaz or Roza or Haj or Zakat and not even your birth or death without mentioning Ali un Wali ullah.

Book Shajar-e-Touba Published from Najaf - Iraq : - Utba bin Amir Jehni companion of Holy Prophet ( pbuh & hp ) narrates :- We did the ‘ Bait ‘ of Rasool-e-Khuda ( pbuh & hp ) on these lines : Ash hado anna La illaha illalla wa Ash hado Anna Mohammedan Nabiye’hi wa an Ali’in Wasi’yehi : and if we reject any one of these testimonies we will become Kafir.

In the book Muqadmah Mishkat ul Anwar - Imam Ali ibn-e-Abi Talib (as) says “ The one who does not accept/ testify my Wilayat will not get any benefit from

accepting/ testifying Mohammad’s ( pbuh & hp ) Risalat - Be aware both these testimonies are compulsory with each other “

Ehtejaj-e-Tibrisi - Volume 1 : Imam Jaffar As Sadiq ( as ) says “ Thus when ever one says La ilaha illalla and Mohammedan Rasool Allah, he must immediately say Ali is Ameer ul Momineen Wali Ullah “

The point to note in the above tradition of Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (as) is that our Imam (as) has not restricted the order which means that WE HAVE TO recite Ali un Wali ullah when ever and where ever we recite the first 2

testimonies

Book Imali Suddook : Imam Ali Raza (as) says “ God Almighty has said that he will NOT ACCEPT anyone’s acts of worship unless he stands witness to Moula Ali (as)’s Wilayat with Prophet’s ( pbuh & hp ) Risalat.”

Here we should note that isn’t Namaz an act of worship ? If it is, then how can it be excluded from the order of Imam Ali Raza (as) in the above tradition ( Hadith ) .

I guess if you do the taqleed of someone who says so, then thats up to you.

However, pretty much the seasoned scholars that I'm aware of - none allows it.

In fact, my understanding is that none considers it to even be part of Azaan...

(Even though they believe it could be recited [in Azaan] but only with intention of separation).

Was-salaam.

Names of marja e taqleed given............

Now let us see if our beloved Rasool-e-Khuda ( pbuh & hp ) and our 14 Masoomeen (as) used to recite the Third Shahadat ( Ali un Wali ullah ) in

their Namaz :

NAMAZ OF RASOOL-E-KHUDA ( pbuh & hp )

Surah Bani Israel “( O Prophet Mohammad ) Do not recite your prayers loudly nor say it under your breath; seek a course in between. (110) “

In : Tafseer Ayashi - Tafseer Saafi - Tafseer Burhan - Tafseer Noor as Saqalain Tafseer Basair Ad Darajaat etc etc : Narrated from Imam Mohammad Baqar (as)

: Imam (as) says that the testimony of Wilayat-e-Ali (as) should not be given loudly until God Almighty Orders it but do not hide it from Imam Ali (as).Hence Holy Prophet ( pbuh & hp ) kept asking God Almighty for the permission

and on the day of Gadeer-e-Khum Holy Prophet ( pbuh & hp ) got the permission to announce it loudly “

The Above Ayat and its Tafseer as done by Imam Mohammad Baqar (as) proves that Rasool-e-Khuda used to testify the Wilayat of Moula Ali (as) slowly and

quietly until the day of Gadeer after which Rasool -e- Khuda started saying the Third Shahadat loudly.

NAMAZ OF IMAM JAFFAR AS SADIQ (as)

Bihar ul Anwar Volume 84 - Tradition ( Hadith ) of Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (as).Imam Jaffar As Sadiq (as) used to recite the Tashahud of his Namaz like this :

“ Ash Hado Annaka Ne’amar Rab wa ash hado Annaka Mohammedan Ne’amar Rasool wa ash hado Annaka Ali ibn-e-Abi Talib Ne’amal Moula “

NAMAZ OF IMAM ALI RAZA (as)

FIQAH AR RAZA : Imam Ali Raza (as) used to recite this sentence in his Tashahud

“ Ash Hado Annaka Ne’amar Rab wa an Mohammedan Ne’amar Rasool wa an Ali’in Ne’amal Wali “

Now that you have witnessed what Quran & Ahadith says about the 3rd Shahadat ( Ali un Wali ullah ) in Namaz and you have also seen how our Rasool-e-Khuda , Imam Jaffar As Sadiq & Imam Ali Raza (as) used to recite Tashahud, so let us see what Fuqahas and Marajas say about this :

STATEMENTS OF FUQUHAS :

Syed Mohammad Tibrisi in Masabeeh Al Rashad says “ Kalma Ali un Wali ullah is proven in the time of our Holy Prophet ( pbuh & hp ) but it was discontinued during the time of Bani Ummayya “

There are many many Maraja-e-Taqleed who were confident about the necessity of recitation of Ali un wali ullah in Namaz : The names of a few are as under :

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mohammad bin Mehdi Shirazi

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Abul Qasim Al Khoie

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mohammad Jawwad Tabatabai

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mohammad Hassani Baghdadi

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Abdullah Shirazi

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mohammad Ali Tabatabai

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Shahabuddin Hussaini Najafi Mar’ashi

Ayatullah Al Uzma Shaikh Murtaza Aal-e-Yaseen

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Razi uddin Ahmed Mustambat

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mahmood Shoharwardi

Ayatullah Al Uzma Syed Mohammad Shirazi

& Many more

Yaa Ali Madad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

First thing

How is Mehdi Shirazi the greatest Alim? Since this is your opinion not a very valid opinion then dont mention it. Secondly It is not wajib and adding it to the prayer is incorrect. Just because of their high status does not mean that the addition of them into anything with the belief that it is obligatory isnt wrong.

And please be careful in the addition of Ulama to that list when they say that it is permissible with the intention of closeness to Allah. It is not wajib according to Sayed Al Khoi which makes your entire list something which cannot be trusted.

Edited by alsayed1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

First thing

How is Mehdi Shirazi the greatest Alim? Since this is your opinion not a very valid opinion then dont mention it. Secondly It is not wajib and adding it to the prayer is incorrect. Just because of their high status does not mean that the addition of them into anything with the belief that it is obligatory isnt wrong.

And please be careful in the addition of Ulama to that list when they say that it is permissible with the intention of closeness to Allah. It is not wajib according to Sayed Al Khoi which makes your entire list something which cannot be trusted.

(salam)

mehdi shirazi led the revolution against the british in iraq...........trust me that was hard.......at least when the iranian revolution happened you had 90 percent of opulation supporting you......mehdi shirazi had foreign occupiers...........yet it was all done peacefully.........:) no bloodshed TRUE AALIMS!.............

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

just for the info of the Ayatollah Sistani followers.

Followers of Ayatollah Sistani should not recite the third shahadat in Salat:

From sistani.org:

Question : Is it allowed to recite ali un vali Allah in Tashahhud?

Answer : Although it is desirable to witness on the guardianship (wilayat) of Imam Ali after witnessing on the prophethood of the Prophet (pbuh) but as a measure of obligatory precaution, one should not witness on the guardianship of Imam Ali in prayer. Meaning, the obligatory precaution is that ‘Ashhadul ann alian waliullah’ should not be said in tashahhud.

Question : If we utter the third Shahadah in Tashahhud thinking that it is not a must but it is better than can we say that. ?

Answer : It is obligatory precaution not permissible.

Edited by sayyada786
Link to comment
Share on other sites

just for the info of the Ayatollah Sistani followers.

Followers of Ayatollah Sistani should not recite the third shahadat in Salat:

From sistani.org:

(salam)

im not a follower of sistani so dont apply to me :) ........but theres sufficient proof from imam raza (as) that it should be recited.........who knows more sistani or imam raza (as)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
but theres sufficient proof from imam raza (as) that it should be recited.........who knows more sistani or imam raza (as)?

(bismillah)

(salam)

I'm sure Ayatollah Sistani is aware of the hadith posted above. They do not necessarily have strong isnads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

mehdi shirazi led the revolution against the british in iraq...........trust me that was hard.......at least when the iranian revolution happened you had 90 percent of opulation supporting you......mehdi shirazi had foreign occupiers...........yet it was all done peacefully.........:) no bloodshed TRUE AALIMS!.............

Your a real nutcracker aren't you? So mr aalim. When he expelled the foreign occupiers, who did replace their place? Saddam? Americas puppet? And its Ayatollah shirazi, not mehdi shirazi. Hypocrite!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
im not a follower of sistani so dont apply to me ........but theres sufficient proof from imam raza that it should be recited.........who knows more sistani or imam raza ?

the book u are talking abt is said not to be written by IMAM REZA(AS)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

I'm sure Ayatollah Sistani is aware of the hadith posted above. They do not necessarily have strong isnads.

(salam)

thats even worse if hes aware of it and does not consider it wajib, no ayatollah is above Islam remember that, hazrat mohammad (saw) said in his final khutba that "I am leaving behind two things, the Quran and my Ahlul Bayt (as)".............he (saw) did not say im leaving behind Quran and sistani............:)............and another thing this hadith is authentic because the quran backs it up when Allah says shadaatahum..........and kalima tayyiba, and both these words mean more than two testomonies...........:).........

the book u are talking abt is said not to be written by IMAM REZA(AS)

(salam)

the book is not written by Imam Ali Raza (as)..........but the hadith is from Imam Ali Raza (as)..........its like bihar al anwar........book is compiled allmah majlisi (ra) but hadiths are from twelve imams (as) :)

Your a real nutcracker aren't you? So mr aalim. When he expelled the foreign occupiers, who did replace their place? Saddam? Americas puppet? And its Ayatollah shirazi, not mehdi shirazi. Hypocrite!

(salam)

and who was behind the revolution in 1979?..........it was sayad shirazi not khumayni.........but I do not wish to get involved in this debate in this thread, so mr.repenter I think its best if you take after youre name and start repenting for following corrupt mullahs :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
(salam)

thats even worse if hes aware of it and does not consider it wajib, no ayatollah is above Islam remember that, hazrat mohammad (saw) said in his final khutba that "I am leaving behind two things, the Quran and my Ahlul Bayt (as)".............he (saw) did not say im leaving behind Quran and sistani............:)............and another thing this hadith is authentic because the quran backs it up when Allah says shadaatahum..........and kalima tayyiba, and both these words mean more than two testomonies...........:).........

(bismillah)

(salam)

Are you ignorant towards all the other maraja other than yours? Do you know the level of Ayatollah Sistani do you really think that he would say something that would contradict something that the Imam Al Ridha (as) would allow? And if the Imam Al Ridha (as) has allowed it please post your proof rather than just degrading other marajas

And I suggest you go and read Bihar ul Anwar and read carefully what Allama Majlisi has written on the first page of his book that this books is a COLLECTION of hadiths they are not checked and verified to be authentic

and who was behind the revolution in 1979?..........it was sayad shirazi not khumayni.........

Really? Where was Sayed Shirazi in Iran or Iraq before the revolution? You need a lesson in history too i think

Wsalaams

Edited by talk2me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

And if the Imam Al Ridha (as) has allowed it please post your proof rather than just degrading other marajas

NAMAZ OF IMAM ALI RAZA

FIQAH AR RAZA : Imam Ali Raza used to recite this sentence in his Tashahud

“ Ash Hado Annaka Ne’amar Rab wa an Mohammedan Ne’amar Rasool wa an Ali’in Ne’amal Wali “

Please read posts more carefully in the future, oh and another thing I will agree to take lessons on history as long as you promise me that khamanei and misbah yazdi take lessons in repsecting the rights of their brothers and not attack the funeral of marjas.......... :blush:

GUYS PLEASE LETS NOT DEBATE ABOUT SHIA MULLAHS.........LETS TALK ABOUT THE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE HAZRAT ALI (as) THE PURE TRUE ARAB..........

Edited by Jurisprudence_Aalim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
NAMAZ OF IMAM ALI RAZA

FIQAH AR RAZA : Imam Ali Raza used to recite this sentence in his Tashahud

“ Ash Hado Annaka Ne’amar Rab wa an Mohammedan Ne’amar Rasool wa an Ali’in Ne’amal Wali “

Please read posts more carefully in the future, oh and another thing I will agree to take lessons on history as long as you promise me that khamanei and misbah yazdi take lessons in repsecting the rights of their brothers and not attack the funeral of marjas.......... :blush:

Oh ok you got proof that Ayatollah Khamanei attacked the funeral? Dont say things you dont know abt or post your proof

And also can you give me the volume and the page number as to where in Bihar ul Anwar it says this so I can check it out? and also just as a cross reference I checked it in one of the other books I have which has the namazs of all the Infallibles (as) and what they use to recite and its not present in there but I will wait and check in Bihar too...

Wsalaams

Edited by talk2me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

thats even worse if hes aware of it and does not consider it wajib, no ayatollah is above Islam remember that, hazrat mohammad (saw) said in his final khutba that "I am leaving behind two things, the Quran and my Ahlul Bayt (as)".............he (saw) did not say im leaving behind Quran and sistani............:)............and another thing this hadith is authentic because the quran backs it up when Allah says shadaatahum..........and kalima tayyiba, and both these words mean more than two testomonies...........:).........

Although you may call yourself "Jurisprudence Aalim" exactly where did you learn to evaluate hadiths to a level comparable to other mujtahids? You have not.

LETS TALK ABOUT THE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE HAZRAT ALI

Allah (swt) is the master of the universe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
NAMAZ OF IMAM ALI RAZA

FIQAH AR RAZA : Imam Ali Raza used to recite this sentence in his Tashahud

" Ash Hado Annaka Ne'amar Rab wa an Mohammedan Ne'amar Rasool wa an Ali'in Ne'amal Wali "

There are many things that one can say in their prayers, but he thing is not to include them with the intention of obigation instead of recommendation.

Even Sayed Sadeq, the man you have in your picture does not include 'aliyyun wali Allah' in the tash'hhud.

المسألة 1: يجب الجلوس للتشهد في الركعة الثانية من كل الصلوات الواجبة، وفي الركعة الثالثة من صلاة المغرب، والرابعة من صلاة الظهر والعصر والعشاء، وذلك بعد أن يجلس من السجدة الثانية، ويقول وهو مستقر البدن:

«أشْهَدُ أنْ لا إلهَ إلا الله وَحْدَهُ لا شَريكَ لَهُ، وَأشْهَدُ أنَّ مُحَمَّداً عَبْدُهُ وَرَسُولُهُ، اللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلى مُحَمّدٍ وَآلِ مُحَمَّد»

"I bear witness that there is no God save Allah, the one without partner and i bear witness that Mohammad is his servant and messenger. Oh Allah send blessings on Mohammad and the Progeny of Mohammad".

http://alshirazi.com/rflo/s_shirazi/montak...lat/tashhod.htm

The only difference is Sayed Sadeq and Sayed Mohammad included the third Shahada in adhan as wajib

just a friendly warning to those who want to divert from the topic at hand, especially jurisprudence alim. I will not hesitate to remove all your posts, along with your good self. I believe you've made your point on more than one thread, so either stick to the topic at hand or dont participate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[/b]The only difference is Sayed Sadeq and Sayed Mohammad included the third Shahada in adhan as wajib

thanks for that........i never knew that.............however taqleed is not wajib, i dont have to follow any marja if i dont agree with them, to me it dont make sense to exclude imam ali (as) name from tashahud, whilst you include it in everything else........and we have seen that imam raza (as) and imam sadiq (as) recited it, so what the prophet (saw) never recited it?.........i doubt it.......also Ali as name is on allahs arsh and this can be proven from sunni references in peshawar nights, as well as hayat al qulub volume1, as well as volume 3 and many other books, i think shia books are self explanatory on the topic of ali (as) name on Allahs arsh.........:)

[b]Why stop at the third shahadat? Why not fourth, fifth, etc. including that of our Imam al-Asr(af)?

@)

mashallah......... but salwaat covers the rest :).........however imam ali (as) has a greater position than the rest of the imams (as), if hasan (as) and husayn (as) are the leader of men of paradise, then whats the position of their father (as) who was born in the kaaba?.......lol

Edited by Jurisprudence_Aalim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

No one is denying the shahadat of Ali (as). 'Allahuma Sali Allah Mohammad wa Aali Mohammad', which is part of the salat covers Ali and bani Ali (as).

Now as someone who is attempting to appear intelligent and is not in need of any assistance from those a lot more knowledgeable, I'd like you to enlighten us all by providing all hadeeths related to tash'hhud in salat. When you have done that, could please break it down to which of these hadeeths is saheeh, da3eef, mursal....etc. Can you then tell us how to distinguish the wajib from the recommended from that hadeeth. Maybe you can really educate us by telling us a little about each of the narrators, that is if the hadeeth has a sanad.

When you are able to do that, come back and then i'm sure we'll all be ears, otherwise you are no more than what the Quran says....

[Shakir 7:176] And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is denying the shahadat of Ali (as). 'Allahuma Sali Allah Mohammad wa Aali Mohammad', which is part of the salat covers Ali and bani Ali (as).

Now as someone who is attempting to appear intelligent and is not in need of any assistance from those a lot more knowledgeable, I'd like you to enlighten us all by providing all hadeeths related to tash'hhud in salat. When you have done that, could please break it down to which of these hadeeths is saheeh, da3eef, mursal....etc. Can you then tell us how to distinguish the wajib from the recommended from that hadeeth. Maybe you can really educate us by telling us a little about each of the narrators, that is if the hadeeth has a sanad.

When you are able to do that, come back and then i'm sure we'll all be ears, otherwise you are no more than what the Quran says....

[Shakir 7:176] And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.

(salam)

incorrect.........please can you not just post empty posts and comments, youre ignorance is evident however we can all improve, inshallah, now to answer youre question.......I dont have to ask any shia mullah about the tafsir of the quran, I MYSELF look at the quran and find that it says shahaadatahum, and kalima tayyiba which means more than 2 testmonies, im sure youre fully aware of this, so please do more reading. Please read my post carefully before posting posts like that ..........

Oh and the verse you quoted is about the corrupt shias that after acceptng the wilayat of Ali (as) turn their backs.........im not turning my back on Ali (as) im saying Ali (as) has a position in Islam that only mohammad (saw) is greater..........:)

OH AND THIS QURANIC VERSE IS FOR THE BAKRI SHIAS THAT HAVE TURNED THEIR BACK ON THE WILAYAT OF MAULA ALI (as)......

the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications 2:176..............:)

Edited by Jurisprudence_Aalim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
(salam)

incorrect.........please can you not just post empty posts and comments, youre ignorance is evident however we can all improve, inshallah, now to answer youre question.......I dont have to ask any shia mullah about the tafsir of the quran, I MYSELF look at the quran and find that it says shahaadatahum, and kalima tayyiba which means more than 2 testmonies, im sure youre fully aware of this, so please do more reading. Please read my post carefully before posting posts like that ..........

Oh and the verse you quoted is about the corrupt shias that after acceptng the wilayat of Ali (as) turn their backs.........im not turning my back on Ali (as) im saying Ali (as) has a position in Islam that only mohammad (saw) is greater.......... :)

Shahadatahum - their testimony

Kalima tayyiba - goodly saying

Now can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that there's a correlation between these random words you've taken out of context from the Quran and the obligations of salat.

We are all afterall here to learn. so enlighten us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

Normally at present time we only give 2 testimonies i.e. of Touheed & Risalat. In Arabic 2 testimonies are called Shahadatain whereas if the testimonies are at least 3 or more the word used in Arabic is Shahad'aat.

The word Shahadatain ( 2 testimonies ) cannot be found any where in Quran but the word Shahad'aat can be seen in Quran and that too in the context of Namaz. But if someone still refuses to stand witness to at least 3

testimonies , would that not be rejecting Quranic order ? ...........so in adhan iqamah tashahud u give testmonies right?..........so u have to give more than 2, its not me that is saying it but Allah...........and as for goodly sayings, you say it in namaaz right, thats where the goodly sayings are right?........so once again more than 2 testmonies....... :)

Surah Al Muarij - Ayat 33 to 35

" And those who are upright in their testimonies (Shahadaatehum ), And those who keep a guard on their prayer, Those shall be in gardens, honoured"

It is important to note here that the word Shahad’aat ( Plural ) in Arabic is only used for at least 3 testimonies - It cannot be used for 2 testimonies , For 2 testimonies the word in Arabic is ‘ Shahadatain ‘

In the above Ayat-e-Quran God Almighty is describing the glories of people who testifies 3 Shahad’aat in their Namaz and safeguards their prayers ( Namaz ).

Also I have another question, when hazrat mohammad (saw) left hazrat ali (as) as sucessor, did he say it was mustahab to follow ali(As) or wajib?.........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
(salam)

Normally at present time we only give 2 testimonies i.e. of Touheed & Risalat. In Arabic 2 testimonies are called Shahadatain whereas if the testimonies are at least 3 or more the word used in Arabic is Shahad'aat.

The word Shahadatain ( 2 testimonies ) cannot be found any where in Quran but the word Shahad'aat can be seen in Quran and that too in the context of Namaz. But if someone still refuses to stand witness to at least 3

testimonies , would that not be rejecting Quranic order ? ...........so in adhan iqamah tashahud u give testmonies right?..........so u have to give more than 2, its not me that is saying it but Allah...........and as for goodly sayings, you say it in namaaz right, thats where the goodly sayings are right?........so once again more than 2 testmonies....... :)

Surah Al Muarij - Ayat 33 to 35

" And those who are upright in their testimonies (Shahadaatehum ), And those who keep a guard on their prayer, Those shall be in gardens, honoured"

It is important to note here that the word Shahad'aat ( Plural ) in Arabic is only used for at least 3 testimonies - It cannot be used for 2 testimonies , For 2 testimonies the word in Arabic is ' Shahadatain '

In the above Ayat-e-Quran God Almighty is describing the glories of people who testifies 3 Shahad'aat in their Namaz and safeguards their prayers ( Namaz ).

Also I have another question, when hazrat mohammad (saw) left hazrat ali (as) as sucessor, did he say it was mustahab to follow ali(As) or wajib?.........

Don't just write things. Provide references.The verses in the Quran and show us the correlation. I see you've edited and added some.

[Shakir 70:33] And those who are upright in their testimonies,

[Shakir 70:34] And those who keep a guard on their prayer,

Separated by the Waw (و). As you can see from the preceding verses

[Shakir 70:20] Being greatly grieved when evil afflicts him

[Shakir 70:21] And niggardly when good befalls him

and then a list is made:

[Shakir 70:22] Except those who pray

[Shakir 70:23] Those who are constant at their prayer

[Shakir 70:24] And those in whose wealth there is a fixed portion.

etc etc, and those who are upright in their testimonies because the emphasis of being upright and truthful in one's testimony is made clear in other verses. It then say AND (WA) those who keep guard on their prayers.

You are making your own correlation, stop messing with the Quran to suit your whims. You have been repeatedly told, that no one is denying the wilayat of Ali (as), and just because its not an obligation in salat does not mean that it takes away from his greatness (as).

I posted you sayed sadiq fatwa on tashahhud, he does not include the third shahada. Why do you still have his picture in your avatar. Sayed Mohammad Shirazi did not include it the tashhud either, shouldn't you now lump them in with the other 'scholars' you deem corrupt?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't just write things. Provide references.

The verses in the Quran and show us the correlation.

(salam)

oh dear oh dear YA Allah! how feeble are these peoples argument, look wilayah mod, please can you read the posts, it says shahadaatahum, what does that mean? it means people giving testmonies right?......if the answer is yes, then where do we give shahadats? when we are sitting on the toilet?, or wait a minute do we give shahadats when are driving our car?. NO..........WE GIVE IT IN NAMAAZ...........and Allah IS SAYING GIVE MORE THAN 2 TESTMONIES, whats so hard to understand about that?............asahado ana laa ilaha ilallah asahado ana mohammad an abduhu wa raooluh, ................................... whats next?............theres more than 2!...........

Surah Al Muarij - Ayat 33 to 35

" And those who are upright in their testimonies (Shahadaatehum ), And those who keep a guard on their prayer, Those shall be in gardens, honoured"

right from this verse it says And those who keep a guard on their prayer.............whats prayer?........its namaaz right?..............so if its namaaz then in namaaz we must be "upright" in our testmonies right?............so if we were to be upright in our testmonies in namaaz.........we have to look at the word testmonies in what context it is used and it is used in plural from the word shahadaatayn........and the word used is shahadaatahum not shahadaatayn.........so this is how these testmonies are related to namaaz..........

Surah Fatir - Ayat 10

[shakir 35:10] Whoever desires honor, then to Allah belongs the honor wholly. To Him do ascend the good words ( Al Kelam Al Tayyab ); and the good

deeds, lift them up, and (as for) those who plan evil deeds, they shall have a severe chastisement; and (as for) their plan, it shall perish.

In the above ayat of Quran the word used is "Al Kalem Al Tayyab" which is again in plural form (Sega-e-Jama) and as mentioned above in Arabic the plural form like this is only only used for Three or more.

so once again we see that al kelam al tayyab is more than two testmonies, now you may ask how is this related to namaaz?..........but what ascends to Allah, what acts do we do where our deeds and words ascend to Allah?........namaaz right?........if the answer is yes then when do we use these goodly words that ascend to Allah?........in namaaz right we use goodly words?.........so therefore once again proven that namaaz must have more than 2 shahadats.............

Ehtejaj-e-Tibrisi - Volume 1 : Imam Jaffar As Sadiq ( as ) says “ Thus when ever one says La ilaha illalla and Mohammedan Rasool Allah, he must immediately say Ali is Ameer ul Momineen Wali Ullah “

anyways i have to go now..........leave whatever comments i`ll reply tommorow............

Edited by Jurisprudence_Aalim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
In the above Ayat-e-Quran God Almighty is describing the glories of people who testifies 3 Shahad'aat in their Namaz and safeguards their prayers ( Namaz ).

Wrong. Allah is talking about people who testify honestly.

Shahaadaatun is plural for the world SHAHADA. Shahaadaatun is used for more than one till infinity of testimonies and not limited to 3. Same goes for kalim tayeb. Its the plural form and not limited to 3.

right from this verse it says And those who keep a guard on their prayer.............whats prayer?........its namaaz right?..............so if its namaaz then in namaaz we must be "upright" in our testmonies right?............so if we were to be upright in our testmonies in namaaz.........we have to look at the word testmonies in what context it is used and it is used in plural from the word shahadaatayn........and the word used is shahadaatahum not shahadaatayn.........so this is how these testmonies are related to namaaz..........

wrong again. The (wa) in the verse separates the two....

Those who are are upright in their testimonies, AND those who guard their prayers

separate statements of descriptions, as can be seen from the preceding and proceeding verses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
mashallah......... but salwaat covers the rest :).........however imam ali (as) has a greater position than the rest of the imams (as), if hasan (as) and husayn (as) are the leader of men of paradise, then whats the position of their father (as) who was born in the kaaba?.......lol

Durood (or salawaat) covers Imam Ali(as) as well. Based on that reasoning third shahadat is as necessary or otherwise as the fourth, fifth and subsequent shahadats.

We believe in the wilayah of all 14 masumeen(as) including not just the Imams(as) but Lady of the Paradise(as) as well. By confirming the wilayah of the remaining 12 infallibles, we would be stating a fact, not in any way making a comparison with Imam Ali(as)'s stature.

So, again, why not shahada of wilayah of all walis, especially the Wali ul Asr(af)?

@)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The Risalat of Holy Prophet(SAWA) is null and void without the Wilayat of Imam Ali(AS)...This is established by the following ayat:

O Messenger. proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.

So when we say: Mohammadur-rasoolullah we are infact also including the wilayat of Imam Ali(AS) in it...

Hence J_A you are actually going against the Quran when u say that Ali-un-Waliullah is separate from Mohammadur-rasoolullah when infact it is the heart and soul of it...

Edited by Abbas_Zaidi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(salam)

(bismillah)

From Khomeini (qas) from Adabus Salat

In some untrustworthy narratives it is stated that after testifying to the Messengership in the adhan one is to say: "I testify that 'Ali is waliyullah (Allah's friend)" twice. In other narratives, one is to say: "I testify that 'Ali is truly Amirul Mu'minin" twice. In some others, one is to say: "Muhammad and his progeny are the best of people". Ash-Shaykh as-Saduq(may Allah have mercy upon him) took these narratives to be invented and he denied them. [209] It is well known among the 'ulama' (may Allah be pleased with them) that these narratives are not reliable. Some narrators regard them among the commendables, due to "the negligence of the proofs of the laws." This opinion, however, is not far from being true, although if "absolute proximity" [qurbat-i mutlaqah] is intended, reciting it is better and more admired, because after testifying to the Messengership, it is desirable to testify to the guardianship and the leadership of the believers.

source: http://al-islam.org/adab/37.htm

wasalam

Edited by Link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(salam)

Brother who is Khomeini ?

This is what khomeini says :

From Khomeini qas.gif from Adabus Salat

In some untrustworthy narratives it is stated that after testifying to the Messengership in the adhan one is to say: "I testify that 'Ali is waliyullah (Allah's friend)" twice. In other narratives, one is to say: "I testify that 'Ali is truly Amirul Mu'minin" twice. In some others, one is to say: "Muhammad and his progeny are the best of people". Ash-Shaykh as-Saduq(may Allah have mercy upon him) took these narratives to be invented and he denied them. [209] It is well known among the 'ulama' (may Allah be pleased with them) that these narratives are not reliable. Some narrators regard them among the commendables, due to "the negligence of the proofs of the laws." This opinion, however, is not far from being true, although if "absolute proximity" [qurbat-i mutlaqah] is intended, reciting it is better and more admired, because after testifying to the Messengership, it is desirable to testify to the guardianship and the leadership of the believers.

source: http://al-islam.org/adab/37.htm

Please note that khomeini writes that the Ulema believe that the declaration is unreliable, meaning that Khomeini is placing the Ijma of Ulema against The verdicts of the Quran and Ahadees.

Please note that it was Abu Bakr and Umar who put aside the words of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and made Ijmah of sahaba as priority.

Here are evidences from the Quran declaring the Wilayat of Imam Ali (as) as WAJIB:

Ayat 1

[shakir 7:172] And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls: Am I not your Lord? They said: Yes! we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of resurrection: Surely we were heedless of this.

Tafseer al-burhaan , Vol 2, pg 47 - Hz Jabar narrates from Imam Muhammed Baqir when was Amir al mumineen called Amir al momineen ? He replied ; "That Allah made him as referred in this Ayat a compact was made with the children of Adam that Allah is their Lord and Muhammed their Prophet and Ali the Amir al- momineen.

Ayat 2

[shakir 27:89] Whoever brings good, he shall have better than it; and they shall be secure from terror on the day.

The word Al-hasana refers to the Wilayat of Mola Ali .

Al-kafi -Vol 1, pg, 262, Pub Iran. Tafseer As-saafi, Vol 2, pg, 250, Pub Iran Tafseer-e-farraat, pg 115, Pub Iran Tafseer al-burhaan, Vol, 3, pg 212 Hadeeqa tus-Shia'h, pg 123 Tafseer-e-Luamah Tanzeel, Vol, 16, pg 97 Kafahat-al-Mohhedeen, Vol 2, pg 661

Ayat 3

[shakir 3:81] And when Allah made a covenant through the prophets: Certainly what I have given you of Book and wisdom-- then an messenger comes to you verifying that which is with you, you must believe in him, and you must aid him. He said: Do you affirm and accept My compact in this (matter)? They said: We do affirm. He said: Then bear witness, and I (too) am of the bearers of witness with you.

The covenant of Prophets was of the Wilayat of Mola Ali .

Bisaar-ad-dahrajaat al-Jazahir thaani, pg 93

Ayat 4

[shakir 3:103] And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, and remember the favor of Allah on you when you were enemies, then He united your hearts so by His favor you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire, then He saved you from it, thus does Allah make clear to you His communications that you may follow the right way Wahahtasebu baijab lillah means the Wilay of Mola Ali

Haqul Yaqeen, Vol, 1, pg 149, Allama Shabbar Kazemi Sawareka Moraka, pg 151 Tafseer al-kabeer, pg 173, Pub Egypt

Ayat 5

[shakir 78:1] Of what do they ask one another?

Niba Azeem refers to Mola Ali

Haqul Yaqeen, Allama Shabbar Kazemi, Vol 1, pg 164. Haqul Yaqeen, Allama Shabbar Kazemi, Vol 2, pg 74

Ayat 6

[shakir 2:249] So when Talut departed with the forces, he said: Surely Allah will try you with a river; whoever then drinks from it, he is not of me, and whoever does not taste of it, he is surely of me, except he who takes with his hand as much of it as fills the hand; but with the exception of a few of them they drank from it. So when he had crossed it, he and those who believed with him, they said: We have today no power against Jalut and his forces. Those who were sure that they would meet their Lord said: How often has a small party vanquished a numerous host by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient.

The word Nayharr refers to the Wilayat of Mola Ali as the children of Israel were tested in regarding to Mola .

Tafseer-e-Firraat, pg 4, Pub Iran.

Ayat 7

[shakir 37:24] And stop them, for they shall be questioned:

The question will be on the Wilay of Mola Ali .

Tafseer Miratul Anwaar, pg 184 Tafseer As-Saafi, Vol 2, pg 421 Kashful Yaqeen, Allama Hilli, Pg 82 Tafseer-ul-Faraat, Pg 131 Tafseer Al - Burha'an, Vol 4, Pg 16

Ayat 8

[shakir 43:43] Therefore hold fast to that which has been revealed to you; surely you are on the right path.

This refers holding fast to the Wilayat of Mola Ali .

Tafseer al-Anwaar, Pg 335, Pub Iran.

Ayat 9

[shakir 30:30] Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--

The nature made by Allah (Fitranaas) is Wilayat of Mola Ali .

Tafseer al-burhaan, Vol 3, pg 262 Basair-id-dahrajaat al-Jazahir-Thaani, pg 98 Al-Yaqeen, Pg 36, Pub Najaf. Tafseer-e-Farra'at, Pg 120 Miratul-Anwaar, Pg 23.

Ayat 10

[shakir 20:82] And most surely I am most Forgiving to him who repents and believes and does good, then continues to follow the right direction.

Hidayat here, means the Wilayat of Mola Ali

Tafseer As-Sa'afi, Vol 1, Pg 72 Usul Al-Kafi, Vol 1, Pg 262, Pub Iran Tafseer-e-Fara'at, Pg 91 or 93, Najaf.

Edited by sajid naqvi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Here are evidences from the Quran declaring the Wilayat of Imam Ali (as) as WAJIB:

It's not wajib in adhan, so why should it be wajib in tashahud?

If u claim it is wajib in adhan, then are u saying that in the prophets time Bilal used to say the third shahadah in adhan? How? Imam Ali wasn't the successor yet. The same goes for the tashahud. If u say that it is wajib to declare the wilayah of imam ali in the adhan and tashahud, then that means that the prophets adhan and tashahud were invalid, which was clearly not the case.

And one more important thing. If some alims like Ayatollah Shirazi claim that it is wajib in salat, and others, like Ayatollah sistani, say it is haram as an obligatory precaution, does that mean that ayatollah sistani followers won't be able to pray behind Ayatollah Shirazi followers because their salat will be invalidated, and vice versa? This is not a comment, but a genuine question. Will their salat be invalidated?

Edited by sayyada786
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wrong. Allah is talking about people who testify honestly.

Shahaadaatun is plural for the world SHAHADA. Shahaadaatun is used for more than one till infinity of testimonies and not limited to 3. Same goes for kalim tayeb. Its the plural form and not limited to 3.

wrong again. The (wa) in the verse separates the two....

Those who are are upright in their testimonies, AND those who guard their prayers

separate statements of descriptions, as can be seen from the preceding and proceeding verses.

NO NO NO YOU ARE WRONG, where did i ever say the shahadat is limited to 3?....I duno maybe its youre inability to deduce information from posts, also i think because youre a mod youre in this cocooned little world that youre right, but let me just bring you down to earth a little, the testmonies to be given are 3, however by blessing ahlul bayt (as), you are including other people in this shahada therefore three testmonies must be given as well as ahlul bayt (as)..........there is sufficient prooof from the quran to suggest this..........however what there is no proof in the Quran of is the testmomonies to be limited to 2.......and dont give me this rubbish about how blessing ahlul bayt (as) will increase it from 2, because salwaat is not a testmony, testmiony is when you bear witness right?......

the marjas have said salwaat is wajib in tashahud precisely because of this ayat........where Allah uses the word shahadaatahum in surah muarij.........because they realise that they can not limit the testmonies to just 2, becuase theres no proof from the quran to suggest this..........LET ME CHALLENGE ALL OF YOU FIND ME 1 PLACE IN THE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS SHAHADATAYN?.............ANYWHERE?!?!?!.......

AND AS FOR YOURE WEAK ATTEMPT to answer my other point, I am fully aware Allah uses "wa" to mean "and" in that ayat, but what are you trying to say?........that "those who guard their prayers" does not refer to namaaz?..........of course it does!!!!.......and where do we say our testmonies?.......in namaaz right?...........please WILAYAH DONT EMBARASS YOURSELF, I DONT MEAN TO COMPLETELY TEAR YOURE ARGUMENT TO PIECES, BUT YOURE IGNORANCE IS ON FULL DISPLAY HERE.............YOURE JUST GIVING empty answers like a hollow piece of wood..........

ALL YOU SO CALLED SHIAS answer this.............if testmonies in arabic is shahadaatahum in the quran .........then what is the testmony after the second one?!?!?!?!.........Please answer that much.........

AND HERES another question..........does hazrat ali (as)'s position not stand out from the other eleven imams (as)?...........because was it not hazrat ali (as) born in the house of Allah as known as the kaaba? WAS it not hazrat ali (as) the pure true arab, was it not hazrat ali As the most beautiful man after hazrat mohammad (saw)?..........it is well known in shia hadiths that hazrat ali (as) was greater than the other eleven imams (as).......THATS JUST A FACT..........

And as for youre other weak point about al kalema al tayyiba, once again to give just two testmonies in namaaz is not backed up by the quran, it means more than 3 or more, so whats there to suggest that Allah means just 3?.......Im fully aware that there can be infinity testmonies, but what if there is just 3?........and then salwaat afterwards since this is proven from the hadiths provided by imam sadiq (as) in bihar al anwar volume 84 :)........

WILAYAH NO OFFENCE, BUT youre point are very very very weak, my points come from the quran, youre points come from personal analogy, where you said that shahaadatahum can mean infinity testimonies, well who are you to give youre personal opinion on this matter, we have hadiths to suggest that imam sadiq (as) and imam raza (as) recited the third shahadat in namaaz, so there is not infnity testimonies!!!!!.........

It's not wajib in adhan, so why should it be wajib in tashahud?

If u claim it is wajib in adhan, then are u saying that in the prophets time Bilal used to say the third shahadah in adhan? How? Imam Ali wasn't the successor yet. The same goes for the tashahud. If u say that it is wajib to declare the wilayah of imam ali in the adhan and tashahud, then that means that the prophets adhan and tashahud were invalid, which was clearly not the case.

And one more important thing. If some alims like Ayatollah Shirazi claim that it is wajib in salat, and others, like Ayatollah sistani, say it is haram as an obligatory precaution, does that mean that ayatollah sistani followers won't be able to pray behind Ayatollah Shirazi followers because their salat will be invalidated, and vice versa? This is not a comment, but a genuine question. Will their salat be invalidated?

(salam)

it was not wajib when hazrat bilal used to give it, simply because hazrat ali (as) was not declared as successor, but theres something that happened in surah maidah verse 3, that completed Islam, and if Hazrat Mohammad (saw) did not do it, his deeds would be in vain, this is how serious it was, however imam ali (as) was delared as successor, so then the obediance of hazrat ali (as) whether it be in Islam, in tahahud adhan and iqamah became wajib, except in cases taqiyyah, :)

Its permissable to pray behind a sunni aalim, but youd have to recite youre own namaaz, and not follow him because the sunnia aalim would be unjust because he follows abu bakr and umar, so therefore to pray behind sistani would be allowed simply because hes a shia, and just because there are differences in belief regarding the third shahadat, that does not mean you cant pray behind him, since it is allowed to pray behind believing in the man that believes in the man that burnt the house of fatima (as) im sure its allowed to pray behind sistani.........just common logic..........like for example at my mosque the imam there does not recite the third shahada however I always add it in quickly to my salat, but I follow him throughout, and as sadiq shirazi says that if someone does not recite the third shahadat it does not make their salat batil.

So really it all depends on the niyyat of man..............most shias do not have the extensive knowledge about books like tafseerul burhan haqqul yaqeen fiqh ar raza bihar al anwar etc, to come to a valid conclusion, so therefore Allah would not be displeased with them, however my point is about the ayatollahs that fully well know all these ayats from the Quran...........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

Shahaadaatahum. The "hum" is plural. The "shahaadaat" is plural. When "hum" is plural (more than two), then even if the people each have one shahadat, the word "shahaadaat" would still remain in plural. Because the collective total of shahaadaat will be more than two.

There goes that argument. :)

Suggestion: learn some basic grammar and maths.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(salam)

I think i should do matem with your response.

Shahadat is for one

Shahdatain is for two

Shahadaat is for three or more.

I wonder why you (so called Shia) people are so against the wilayat of Imam Ali (as) in Namaz, when their is a clear ahadees By Mola (as) that "I am the namaz of a Momin".

Now tell me are you a Momin ?

Edited by sajid naqvi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...