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In the Name of God بسم الله

narrations by a donkey ?

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(bismillah)

salamz

i heared how some mock the nasibis with their narrations consider to animals.....so forget them...

I WANNA ASK is it true that in shia we got a hadith that are narrated by donkeys and other animals???

i heared of that and if yes or no is that hadith sahih???? or daif???? and what are the evidenvec of they are sahih or not???

iam very sincerely and confused about that

ur abdul-Ali

(ecxuse my poor english)

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(bismillah)

ur posts....are always weird!!!

the only thing ive heard that has to do with animals at all, is the story of sulaiman (as) and the ant, and the story of imam hussein's horse. no hadiths though! i mean why would they say a hadith? wheres the chain of narration? if it's for example, the prophet's horse, saying i heard the prophet say so and so, then am sure the prophet (pbuh) wasn't talking to his horse alone, he was talking to someone, and we talk it from that someone, if at all.

furthermore, we consider a person's piety and akhlaq when taking ahadeeth. if we wanted to take hadeeths from donkeys, how would we rate their akhlaq :!!!:

honestly :blush:

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salamz

i heared how some mock the nasibis with their narrations consider to animals.....so forget them...

I WANNA ASK is it true that in shia we got a hadith that are narrated by donkeys and other animals???

i heared of that and if yes or no is that hadith sahih???? or daif???? and what are the evidenvec of they are sahih or not???

iam very sincerely and confused about that

ur abdul-Ali

(ecxuse my poor english)

This is actually a sunni hadeeth, which has a donkey as a narrator in the chain of narrators. I do not have the reference to hand, but I will post it inshAllah when I look it up.

Wassalam

As for SHI'I hadeeths, they will never be considered saheeh if such a hadeeth exists in our books. This is common sense :)

Wassalam

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LOL, now that's just sad.

I know that there is a narration in Bukhari where Bukhari himself is in the middle of the chain of narration. I mean come on, your either at the top of the chain or at the bottom, what the hell are you doing in the middle :huh:

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Here is something interesting I found:

From the book "The Beginning and the End" written by Ibn Kathir, Chapter Six, Entry title:

"The Conversation of the Donkey"

Online (sunni) Source:

http://history.al-islam.com/display.asp?f=bdy01288.htm

It was narrated by Abu Muhammad Ibn Abdullah Ibn Hamid, narrated by Abu Al-Hussian Ahmad Ibn Hadan Al-Sijsi, narrated by Umar Ibn Muhammad Ibn Bajir, narrated by Abu Jafaar Muhammad Ibn Mazid, narrated by Abu Abdullah Muhammad Ibn Akba Ibn Abu Al-Sahba’, narrated by Abu Huthaifa, narrated by Abdullah Ibn Habib Al-Hathli, narrated by Abu Abd Al-Rahman Al-Silmy, narrated by Abu Manthur who said,

"When Allah opened Khaybar to his prophet Muhammad – may Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him – he (Muhammad) received as his share of the spoils four sheep, four goats, ten pots of gold and silver and a black, haggard donkey.

The prophet – may Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him – ADDRESSED the donkey asking, ‘What is your name?’ THE DONKEY ANSWERED, ‘Yazid Ibn Shihab. Allah had brought forth from my ancestry 60 donkeys, none of whom were ridden on except by prophets. None of the descendants of my grandfather remain but me, and none of the prophets remain but you and I expected you to ride me. Before you, I belonged to a Jewish man, whom I caused to stumble and fall frequently so he used to kick my stomach and beat my back.’

The prophet – may Allah’s prayers and peace be upon him – said to him, ‘I will call you Ya’foor, Oh Ya’foor.’ Then Ya’foor REPLIED, ‘I obey.’ The prophet then asked, ‘Do you desire females?’ The donkey replied, ‘NO!’

So the prophet used to ride the donkey to complete his business and if the prophet dismounted from him he would send the donkey to the house of the person he wanted to visit and Ya’foor would knock at the door with his head. When the owner of the house would answer the door, the donkey would signal to that person to go see the prophet.

When the prophet died, the donkey went to a well belonging to Abu Al-Haytham Ibn Al-Tahyan and threw himself in the well out of sadness for the prophet’s death, making it his grave."

:lol:

Edited by Hezbullahi
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Salam Alaikum

Alhamdulillah, all the narrators of Shia ahadith are humans.

There is a hadith, narrated by humans from Imam Sadiq [a], where he speaks about a talking donkey, but that is part of a hadith not the narration.

But the Nasibis twist this around and say that the donkey is narrating the hadith.

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(salam)

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see why this is so strange/funny? The chain of narration does not include the donkey (name of the orignal narrator is " Abu Manthur" and donkeys "name" is Yazid Ibn Shihab).

The Quran narrates the speech of the ant to Prophet Sulyman (a.s.). Imam Hussien (a.s.) speaks with his horse (Zhuljina). For a Prophet(a.s.) or Imam (a.s.) to speak to and understand the speech of an animal is nothing strange.

Of course, I don't know if this hadith is reliable or not, but I don't "get the joke" about this particular hadith. Now if the narrator of the hadith was Yazid ibn Shihab THAT would be worth framing! It's not.

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another famous hadith from sunni books where an animal speaks. this narration was fabricated to praise the two caliphs

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...im/031.smt.html

sahih muslim

Book 031, Number 5881:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A person had been driving an ox loaded with luggage. The ox looked towards him and said: I have not been created for this but for lands (i. e. for ploughing the land and for drawing out water from the wells for the purpose of irrigating the lands). The people said with surprise and awe: Hallowed be Allah, does the ox speak? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I believe it and so do Abu Bakr and 'Umar. Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A shepherd was tendirig the flock when a wolf came there and took away one goat. Tile shepherd pursued it (the wolf) and rescued it (the goat) from that (wolf). The wolf looked towards him and said: Who would save it on the day when there will be no shepherd except me? Thereupon people said: Hallowed be Allah I Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I believe in it and so do Abu Bakr and Umar believe.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Book 031, Number 5882:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Shihab with the same chain of transmitters, but there is no mention of the story pertaining to the ox.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Book 031, Number 5883:

This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Zuhri, and there is a clear mention of the stories of ox and goat (and the words are): I believe in it and so do Abu Bakr and Umar, but they were not at that time present there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Book 031, Number 5884:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira through another chain of transrritters.

the hadith with the wolf. what is the moral of the story??? what do we learn form the line: "Who would save it on the day when there will be no shepherd except me? "???

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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(bismillah)

salamz

i heared how some mock the nasibis with their narrations consider to animals.....so forget them...

I WANNA ASK is it true that in shia we got a hadith that are narrated by donkeys and other animals???

i heared of that and if yes or no is that hadith sahih???? or daif???? and what are the evidenvec of they are sahih or not???

iam very sincerely and confused about that

ur abdul-Ali

(ecxuse my poor english)

عن أمير المؤمنين

إن غُفيراً -حمار رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله- قال له: بأبي أنت وأمي -يا رسول الله- إن أبي حدثني عن أبيه عن جده عن أبيه: (أنه كان مع نوح في السفينة، فقام إليه نوح فمسح على كفله ثم قال: يخرج من صلب هذا الحمار حمار يركبه سيد النبيين وخاتمهم، فالحمد لله الذي جعلني ذلك الحمار) (أصول الكافي 1/237).

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another famous hadith from sunni books where an animal speaks. this narration was fabricated to praise the two caliphs

^^î also said that to him he answered:

The shia say there was no need for this maracle. Nonetheless we believe in maracles and not everything needs to serve as guidance to the ummah through one maracle. For an example I have seen what i believe to be maracles in my life of Allah guiding me. Allah shows His Signs and many maracles are revealed. Shia criticize this part mainly of the hadith

Examine the part about (so does abu bakr and umar). They say this is just extreme exaltation of abu bakr and umar. We say to this who are the shia to criticize one who praises abu bakr and umar while they praise Ali to a divine status. Why did the Prophet say so does abu bakr and Umar believe in it?

Its simple remember the episode where the jew became muslim. I forgot his name. He was amongst the most learned and pious of the jews. And the PROPHET SAID ... What would you do if he became muslim.. they said it be the worst thing and just a time before they were praising him as being the most righteous and most learned. So similarly the Prophet of Allah was showing the people that abu bakr and umar also believe showing this because abu bakr had a high status and he was assured faith in islam. He believed in the Prophet when no one did. And Umar when he became muslim many people were strengthen in their iman when he became muslim. remember umar had wanted to kill the Prophet salalahu alayhi wa salam but iman was placed in his heart and he believed and supported the Prophet. These two were great examples and that is why they are used in this hadith. And Allah knows best.

___________________________________________________________futher more he gave me thAT

Alhamdulillah, all the narrators of Shia ahadith are humans.

IAM REALLY CONFUSED CAUSE U SAID NASIBI A TWISTING AN WE GOT NO ANIMALS IN OUR CHAINS SO WHAT IS THIS HERE????? AND CAN PLEASE TELL ME THE CHAINAND IF ITS SAHIH OR DAIF IF NOT WE MUST ACCEPT IT I THINK

ok but the nasibi im discussing with gave me this here very strange and iam confused:

http://www.al-shia.com/html/ara/books/beha...2/107.htm#link9

دلائل الطبري : عن محمد بن الحسن عن موسى بن سعدان عن عبدالله بن القاسم عن هشام بن سالم عن محمد بن مسلم قال : كنت مع أبي جعفر عليه السلام بين مكة والمدينة نسير أنا على حمار لي وهو على بغلة له ( 3 ) إذ أقبل ذئب من رأس الجبل حتى انتهى إلى أبي جعفر عليه السلام فحبس له البغلة حتى دنا منه فوضع يده ( 4 ) على قربوس السرج ومد عنقه إليه ، وأدنى أبوجعفر عليه السلام اذنه منه ساعة ، ثم قال له : امض فقد فعلت ، فرجع مهرولا ، فقلت : جعلت فداك لقد رأيت عجبا ، فقال : هل تدري ما قال ؟ قلت : الله ورسوله وابن رسوله أعلم ، فقال : ذكر أن زوجته في هذا الجبل وقد عسر عليها ولادتها فادع الله عزوجل أن يخلصها وأن لا يسلط شيئا من نسلي.

Here we have Rafidi hadeeths where it says…… a wolf spoke to Abu Jaffar (as) and said that his wife was in near by mountain and the delivery had become difficult on her, so he prayed to Allah to free her and never give authority to his breed over her.

Not to forget those weird hadeeths narrating chain of donkeys!!!!

-------

PLEASE HELP ME THRU MY CONFUSION

SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH

further he said to me u are lying THERE ARE EVEN DONKEYS in the chain of narration....

so iam really confused now :

If the Shi'ites have a Sahih narration, the following will win the award of being the only Sahih Narration.

al-Kulainy, Abu Ja'far Muhammad bin Ya'qoub reports in his al-Kafi (fil-Usool), Book of al-Hujjah, Chapter 38: The Armaments and Sacred Items belonging to the Holy Prophet (s.a.) that transferred to the Imam (a.s.), narration # 9, what partially reads:

فَذَكَرَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ( عليه السلام ) أَنَّ أَوَّلَ شَيْ‏ءٍ مِنَ الدَّوَابِّ تُوُفِّيَ عُفَيْرٌ سَاعَةَ قُبِضَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) قَطَعَ خِطَامَهُ ثُمَّ مَرَّ يَرْكُضُ حَتَّى أَتَى بِئْرَ بَنِي خَطْمَةَ بِقُبَا فَرَمَى بِنَفْسِهِ فِيهَا فَكَانَتْ قَبْرَهُ وَ رُوِيَ أَنَّ أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّ ذَلِكَ الْحِمَارَ كَلَّمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) فَقَالَ بِأَبِي أَنْتَ وَ أُمِّي إِنَّ أَبِي حَدَّثَنِي عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ جَدِّهِ عَنْ أَبِيهِ أَنَّهُ كَانَ مَعَ نُوحٍ فِي السَّفِينَةِ فَقَامَ إِلَيْهِ نُوحٌ فَمَسَحَ عَلَى كَفَلِهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ يَخْرُجُ مِنْ صُلْبِ هَذَا الْحِمَارِ حِمَارٌ يَرْكَبُهُ سَيِّدُ النَّبِيِّينَ وَ خَاتَمُهُمْ فَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي جَعَلَنِي ذَلِكَ الْحِمَارَ Amir al-Mu’mini (a.s.) has said, "The first of the animals to died was ‘Ufayr who died at the same hour that the Messenger of Allah died. He brook off his bound and began to run until he came to the well of bnu Khatma in Quba and threw himself into it, and it became his grave." It is narrated that Amir al-Mu’mini (a.s.) has said, "That donkey spoke to the Messenger of Allah say, May Allah take my soul and the soul of my parents in service for your cause, my father related to me from his father from his grand father from his father who was with Noah in the Ark: Once Noah came to him and whipped him on his back and said, "From the descendents of this donkey there will come a donkey on whose back the master and the last of the prophets will ride. I thank Allah who has made me that donkey."

And this is the only true & sound Isnaad anyone may find in this "Blessed" book called al-Kafi. I dare any Shi'a to get me a better Isnaad. :)

_____________

this is what he gave me

Edited by ohALIasHELPus
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(salam)

the same hadith is in sunni books, however scholars generally say it was a fabrication to redicule Islam, some however believe it doesn't redicule Islam at all

(salam)

I will try to get the references, but I read about it a while back

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Salam Alaikum

Whether it is sahih or dhaeef is debateable, but what's the point? The donkey is not in the chain of narration, the story about the donkey is part of the actual matan of the hadith. Its not too complicated to comprehend. If the Nasibi doesn't understand this, then leave the fool.

PS. The Sunnis have animal narrators such as Muawiyah and Umar ibn Sa'd.

I'd believe the word of a donkey before I believe anything those wretched beings said.

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Salam Alaikum

Alhamdulillah, all the narrators of Shia ahadith are humans.

There is a hadith, narrated by humans from Imam Sadiq [a], where he speaks about a talking donkey, but that is part of a hadith not the narration.

But the Nasibis twist this around and say that the donkey is narrating the hadith.

This is actually a sunni source about Imam Zain Ul Abideen (as)..

A deer once came to Hazrat Imam Zainul Abideen (as), whilst he was in a jungle. The animal fell to the ground and began to say something. Those with the Imam asked what had happened. The Imam said that the deer was complaining about a man who captured her child. Hazrat Imam Zainul Abideen (as) summoned the man. The man brought with him the child belonging to the deer. Imam Zainul Abideen (as) asked him to release the deer, which he gladly did. After some time, the deer took its young, and said something and then left. Those present were amazed and asked the Imam what the deer said as she left. The Imam said, “She said, JazakAllahu fi Darain Khair” [Masaalikus Saalikeen]

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Salams....

Actually, we do have a narration by a donkey! Yes, as strange as it may sound, we do have such a narration. Once I attended the Friday prayer, and the Sheikh decided that it was appropriate to bring يعفور (the name of the prophet's donkey) into the lecture. Of course as he was reading the chain of narrators, I had my head berried between my knees because I couldn't contain my laughter.

This is what I remember from the narration:

قال يعفور: يا رسول الله, لقد اخبرني أبي عن جدي عن أبيه عن جده عن جده الذي كان مع نوح في السفينة. قال: يا هذا: سيكون من صلبك ولد يركب عليه خير البشر

و هذا مضمون الرواية و ليس نصها, اما سندها فأني لا أقطع بصحته

wa salam

wasalaam

Do you have a reference for that?

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Whether it is sahih or dhaeef is debateable, but what's the point?

iam not so knowladgable can any1 show me the chain of the narration and the classification if its sahih or daif

and link said there ARE NO CHAINS of narration in kAAFI??? how is that possible how do we no what is sahih or daif????

my father related to me from his father from his grand father from his father who was with Noah in the Ark:

^^^^^^^SEE the donkey narrated FROM his grandfather so how we kn0w if hes trustworthy if we dont know if the hadith is sahih???

coz if i say to him well its not what u think...i have no proofs

so plz could some1 do that for me??

your abdul-alihaydar

Edited by ohALIasHELPus
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  • 2 months later...
  • Advanced Member
(bismillah)

salamz

i heared how some mock the nasibis with their narrations consider to animals.....so forget them...

I WANNA ASK is it true that in shia we got a hadith that are narrated by donkeys and other animals???

i heared of that and if yes or no is that hadith sahih???? or daif???? and what are the evidenvec of they are sahih or not???

iam very sincerely and confused about that

ur abdul-Ali

(ecxuse my poor english)

Yore pore inglish is xcused.

Dem dat b'lieve in stff trnsmttd by donkeys r donkeys desselves.

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Yore pore inglish is xcused.

Dem dat b'lieve in stff trnsmttd by donkeys r donkeys desselves.

(salam)

why cant donkeys speak?

just read our eloquent president speak wisdom:

President Bush: "Peter. Are you going to ask that question with shades on?"

Peter Wallsten of the Los Angeles Times: "I can take them off."

Bush: "I'm interested in the shade look, seriously."

Wallsten: "All right, I'll keep it, then."

Bush: "For the viewers, there's no sun."

Wallsten: "I guess it depends on your perspective."

Bush: "Touche.

--An exchange with legally blind reporter Peter Wallsten, to whom Bush later apologized, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

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Apples and oranges!  Hadiths that talk about talking animals is not the same as a hadith (or hadiths) narrated by an animal (donkey).  An animal narrating a hadith becomes part of the isnad.  This was brought up in a debate and Al-Tijani (and another Shia) had no answers for it.  How do you verify such a hadith when the chain runs through an animal?

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  • 1 year later...

OHALIHELPUS


 


1 majlisi said the narration is weak and mursal at the end of it miratul qul vol 3 pg 48


 


fst objection by them is if animal talks in the narration the narration is rediculous and it is a corrupt belief


 


answer


NOW IF WE ASSUME SPEAKING ANIMALS NARRATIONS ARE REDICULOUS AND CORRUPT BELIEF THEN AS PER THEM SAHIH MUSLIM AND ABU HURERA BKR UMR UTHMAN R REDICULOUS FOR HOLDING THE BELIEF OF SPEAKING ANIMALS


 


abu huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A person had been driving an ox loaded with luggage. The ox looked towards him and said: I have not been created for this but for lands (i. e. for ploughing the land and for drawing out water from the wells for the purpose of irrigating the lands). The people said with surprise and awe: Hallowed be Allah, does the ox speak? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I believe it and so do abu Bakr and 'Umar. abu huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A shepherd was tendirig the flock when a wolf came there and took away one goat. Tile shepherd pursued it (the wolf) and rescued it (the goat) from that (wolf). The wolf looked towards him and said: Who would save it on the day when there will be no shepherd except me? Thereupon people said: Hallowed be Allah I Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I believe in it and so do abu Bakr and Umar believe.  (Book #031, Hadith #5881) Sahih muslim


 


 


OBJECTION 2


Shia books have mentioned the donkey as chain he is speaking to his father etc so its ok to make fun of it and its funny coz its in chain means animals cannot speak with each other


 


Answer


reply 1 again the narration of alkafi is mursal o zaieef from end mursal miratul qul vol 3 pg 48


and donkey is not mentioned in any rijal books as narrator so u cannot call him the narrator


 


reply 2 MONKEYS IN SAHIH BUKHARI DISCUSSED EACH OTHER FOR STONING SHE MONKEY FOR THE ADULTRY ACCORDING TO COMPANION AMR BIN MAIMUN SO CHAIN WONT BE THE BIGGEST SURPRISE


BUT THE BIGGEST SURPRISE IS IN AHLSUNNAH WALJAMAH MONKEYS HAVE THE  PUNISHMENT LAWS OF ADULTRY


MASHAALLAH then whats the difference between ahlsunnah waljamah and a monkey?


 


(1) Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.  (Book #58, Hadith #188)


'Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar)Sahih BUKHARI


 


SO HOW THESE MONKEYS DECIDE TO PUNISH THAT SHE MONKEY? WHATS THEIR LAW ON ACCORDING TO WHICH THEY WERE PUNISHING SHE MONKEY?


HOW THEY COMMUNICATED TO IMPLEMENT PUNISHMENT TOGETHER?


DID THEY DECIDED PUNISHMENT OF SHE MONKEY WITHOUT DISCUSSING EACH OTHER?OR DID THEY DISCUSSED WITH BLUETOOTH MESSENGER?IF NOT BY SPEAKING? PROOVES ACCORDING TO AHLSUNNAH MONKEYS HAVE THE LAWS OF ADULTRY AND THEY COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER TO IMPLEMENT THEM 


 


 


ACCORDING TO ABU HURERA COWS AND WOLFS CAN SPEAK TOO


 Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "While a shepherd was amongst his sheep, a wolfattacked them and took away one sheep. When the shepherd chased the wolfthe wolf turned towardshim and said, 'Who will be its guard on the day of wild animals when nobody except I will be its shepherd. And while a man was driving a cow with a load on it, it turned towards him and spoke to him saying, 'I have not been created for this purpose, but for ploughing." the people said, "Glorified be Allah." the Prophet said, "But I believe in it and so does Abu Bakr end 'Umar."  (Book #57, Hadith #15) Sahih Bukhari.


 


Conclusion,


its crystal clear animals can speak to each other and to humans, and amr bin maimun sunni companion agreed that monkeys told him that she monkey committed zina so amr bin maimun stoned the she monkey with other monkeys


and all those monkies discussed together for implementing the punishment on she monkey


prooves in ahlsunnah donkeys monkeys have their laws of zina too to implement those they use to communicate with each other but this absurdity is not in ShiaIslam.


Edited by BrockLesnar
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