Aisha

[god_has_99_names]

brother, i have half of my family, sunni, wahabi! but you will be surprised to know that most of them , even they believe that shias are kafir ... they are not the fan of yazid either, its my first hand experience. saddam is a political cartoon from the looney tunes... :P

well duh, this is my point, i dont know ANY sunnis who like yazid, nor do I know any shia (personaly) who believe that Aisha was a [Edited Out]. the point is not to believe everything you hear about what others believe.

I take that back, when ayatollah Muhammad Baqir As Sadr was killed by sadaam, a siser of his was killed also, saddam then said " IO didnt want to make the same mistake yazid did" since yazid did not kill zainab.

But I would argue that before ashura, shia and sunni were mearly political differences. the people at karballa can be summed up in ONLY two Catagories:

the Followers of the Ahlul Bayt, who were the Shia

and the troops of Yazid, who none were shia, ergo they were sunni, because they rejected the Imamate

Ergo while Todays Sunnis may distance themselves from yazid, they are directly decended from the sunnis after Abu Bakr.Uthman was directly the ansestor of Yazid, so it was the SUNNI government at work there.

Ashura is not simply an unfortunate situation. the battle lines are very distinct, to be sunni would place you on YAZIDS side, to be shia would place you on husains, there were NO sunnis in hussains camp. so lets quit calling it what it wasnt, and start calling what it is.

It was a Battle, Shia Vs. Sunni. Thats ALL It was.

as a white guy I can dissassociate myself from the crimes of my people past, but the thing doest change it was still whites who ran the aparteid, and it was sunnis who killed hussain. end of story.

[Aashiq e Rasul]

Look I don't see why everyone expects the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s wives to have ALL been pious righteous and good women at all times, did not the other Prophets have wives who were known for being bad like the Prophet Lut (as)?

(salam),

He (saw) is the reason why we exist. The best of Allah's creation.

I'm sorry, may my life be sacrificed for the other prophets (as), but there is no comparison between him and other Prophets (as).

Wassalaam

Edited July 26, 2006 by Aashiq e Rasul

[CatStevens]

mr God has 99 names.

do you know that the majority of the Kufan army sent out to martyr Hazrat Hussain at kerbala was shia? they wrote to Hussain before kerbala to come to iraq and take the kaliphate but then chickened out..

So please ur stupid statement that the army that killed Hazrat Hussain was sunni is not entirely correct. In fact when the sunni populations of Makka and Medina heard that Hazrat Hussain was dead they revolted against Yazid.

Get your facts straight please.

[Link]

(salam)

Allah (swt) honoured Nuh (as) with choosing servants in his offspring. This how Allah (swt) shows he honours his chosen ones "offspring of one another", while having bad wives does not dishonour them. So yes, this comparision is valid, while Mohammad (pbuh) is much higher rank then all Prophets (as), having bad wives is not a dishonour to Nuh (as) or Lut (as) as Allah (swt) made clear in the Quran, they were under righteous servants and it was their fault. IT's not a dishonour likewise to Mohammad (pbuh) to have bad wives, but just as he honoured Ibraheem (as) with honoring him with a chosen family, same is expected to the best of all creation Mohammad (pbuh). Your logic actually proves the best of all chosen families would be given to Mohammad (pbuh), since chosen family lines was a honour and favor according to Quran, while having bad wives has been shown to be irrelevant to the honour of God's chosen ones.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Link

[Path2Felicity]

mr God has 99 names.

do you know that the majority of the Kufan army sent out to martyr Hazrat Hussain at kerbala was shia? they wrote to Hussain before kerbala to come to iraq and take the kaliphate but then chickened out..

So please ur stupid statement that the army that killed Hazrat Hussain was sunni is not entirely correct. In fact when the sunni populations of Makka and Medina heard that Hazrat Hussain was dead they revolted against Yazid.

Get your facts straight please.

The people that deserted him were hypocrites. Those who stuck by him were his true shi'a who believed in his rightful imamate. Tell me, who was in the army of Yazid then, if not people who hated ahlul bayt (as)? These disgusting people did not want our Imam (as) to claim his rightful leadership.

Wasalaam

[ace51214]

Do you have proof that the people of kufa who wanted the Imam(as) to come were shia?

A shia is someone who accepts the leadership of the imam(as) of his time.

Can you tell me what the kufans wrote in their letter? and whether they had accepted the leadership of the imam(as)?

[CatStevens]

Do you have proof that the people of kufa who wanted the Imam(as) to come were shia?

A shia is someone who accepts the leadership of the imam(as) of his time.

Can you tell me what the kufans wrote in their letter? and whether they had accepted the leadership of the imam(as)?

yes they did. They were true shia becoz they were in the army of Hazrat Ali and then supported Hassan then Hussain.

I dont know any website since I dont look up this stuff on the net but read books.

if u want the book is called The History of Islam Vol II by akbar najeebabadi.

Most of the army of Ubaidollah bin Ziyad later repented and became known as the Tawabeen and so were shia.

[ace51214]

yes they did. They were true shia becoz they were in the army of Hazrat Ali and then supported Hassan then Hussain

Just a word of advice, when you end up with the people who kill someone, you cant laim to be a supporter of the victim.

Otherwise you would have ssisted the victim or made your stance known.

Just a little hint ;) for you there.

Funny way of supporting you would agree, by assisting in the unjustified murder of the Prophets(saww) grandson.

Most of the army of Ubaidollah bin Ziyad later repented and became known as the Tawabeen and so were shia.

what proof doyou have that they repented? what proof has the author used that they repented and accepted the way of the Aimma(as)? repentance would not make them shia, accepting the leadership of the imam of the time would make them shia. So does the author substantiate this?

Oh and just because of past support does not vindicate them of future events. neither does repentance after the crime, that is for Allah(swt) to judge. So your assertion is not ratioanal.

Also i asked for proof, not websites. Do you have anything authoritative? i.e anything from the sihah e sita etc?

[god_has_99_names]

mr God has 99 names.

do you know that the majority of the Kufan army sent out to martyr Hazrat Hussain at kerbala was shia? they wrote to Hussain before kerbala to come to iraq and take the kaliphate but then chickened out..

So please ur stupid statement that the army that killed Hazrat Hussain was sunni is not entirely correct. In fact when the sunni populations of Makka and Medina heard that Hazrat Hussain was dead they revolted against Yazid.

Get your facts straight please.

as the other Muslim said whom I am about to quote, no they were hyprocrites. the people of kuffa did betray him in a way, in as much as they refused their help after they were threatended with death. the army STATIONED in kuffa however was not shia, but just a dispatch of Yazids regular army. Secondly, the original leader of that army, and from what I know, some of his men, deserted and went on to help and die for Imam Hussain. the Army that killed Hussain WAS NOT THE ARMY OF KUFFA, it was made up of more professional and disiplined troops. the ARMY that did call him (not the kuffan army) was entirely sunni . if they claimed to be anything else before hand, by revolting against hussain they certainly took themselves out of the shia school. no, they were most definately sunni.

The people that deserted him were hypocrites. Those who stuck by him were his true shi'a who believed in his rightful imamate. Tell me, who was in the army of Yazid then, if not people who hated ahlul bayt (as)? These disgusting people did not want our Imam (as) to claim his rightful leadership.

Wasalaam

(salam)

it was the people that called themselves "shia" that killed imam husayn (as) that is the saddest thing.....

No the people who killed him did not at anytime call themselves shia to my knowladge. the people of Kuffa called themselves shia, but you BADLY need to do some research, the army of kuffa did not Kill imam hussain.

[CatStevens]

^SO WHO WAS IT

[sarajlici]

(salam)

shia and sunni is an achronism when refering to the events of Karbala. Kufans did probably take part in it but since they went against Imam Hussain (as) that disqualifies them from being "shia" in that they went against the ahle bayt (as) . It reminds me of the christian testament that says that all of Jerusalem came out to greet Isa (as) as their savior but were the same people who let him down very shortly. People become cowards in the face of tyranny, it is human. wether it is the kufans or people of Jerusalem.

[god_has_99_names]

^SO WHO WAS IT

well friend that would be an army directly dispatched By yazid. the first troops sent to attack the Imam, the troops who ordered him to go to Kerballa, deserted their orders when they realized the treachery they had become a party to.

[CatStevens]

well*friend* if u read ur history the Obaidullah bin ziyad was made governer of kufa by yazid and then he went there and raised an army from kufa

[god_has_99_names]

I have read the history, and you are right, but this is not the Army that "finished the Job"

I recomend you read "tears and Tributes" by Zakir. good book.

Edited July 25, 2006 by god_has_99_names

[CatStevens]

ok...but you cannot blame sunnis for murdering Hazrat Hussain because it is not true.

Moreover when Sunnis from Medina heard of the death of Hussain they annulled their oath to Yazid and rebelled so it cannot be sunnis who murdered Hussain....

[god_has_99_names]

ok...but you cannot blame sunnis for murdering Hazrat Hussain because it is not true.

Moreover when Sunnis from Medina heard of the death of Hussain they annulled their oath to Yazid and rebelled so it cannot be sunnis who murdered Hussain....

OK, first of all "because it is not true" doesnt prove its not. thats like me saying you have to be shia "because" you just have to.

Secondly, I can and do Blame the sunnis at the time (but clearly not the sunnis of Today, may Allah guide us all) because they were indeed the ones who killed hussain. it was the very logic the sunnis use which was able to convince the soldiers that what they were doing was OK. Muhammed was the final warner, there were no divine Imams, this man was therefore Lying about Allah with his insistence otherwise.

If Karbala made all these great sunnis rise up, why did Yazidrule for an additional three years after karbala, and when he did lose his rule, it was because he died, and HIS SON took over. brilliant rebellion there sunnis, couldnt have done it without ya.

I also found the following on wikipedia, concerning the REASON for the sunni revolt (hint, it has NOTHING to do with karbala) they opposed yazid for the SAME REASON they opposed hussain.

Other Arabs, who were used to choosing leaders by consultation rather than heredity, refused to pledge allegiance to Yazid. A sanction of companions of the prophet Muhammed, including Abdullah ibn Zubayr and Abdullah ibn Umar, opposed Yazid's position as Caliph. Abdullah bin Zubayr claimed the caliphate for himself and launched an insurgency in the Hejaz, the former heartland of the Islamic empire. Yazid sent armies against him in 683. Medina was captured and Mecca was besieged. During the siege, the Kaaba was damaged, reportedly causing significant ill feeling among the inhabitants of Mecca as well as many Muslims throughout the Islamic empire. The siege ended when Yazid died suddenly in 683 CE. The exact place of Yazid's burial is unknown. He was briefly succeeded by his son, Muawiya II.

hate it for ya bro.

[Ali Fazel]

well duh, this is my point, i dont know ANY sunnis who like yazid, nor do I know any shia (personaly) who believe that Aisha was a [Edited Out]. the point is not to believe everything you hear about what others believe.

Brother ---Just to correct you --- There are Sunnis who believe Mawiah and Yazeed to be their leader --------CHECK OUT Dabater in Islamica discussion forum ---- He is the follower of Yazeed and mawiah.

Also if you read the account of Muhammad at Tejani as Samavi --- Author of the book then I was guided and others . ---Read his account when he went to India and he encountered Sunni - Maliki who clearly said they accept Yazeed as their leader -------Muhammad Tijani was surprised by this because he himself was a Maliki but he never heard Maliki accepting Yazeed as their leader in N -Africa.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Ali Fazel

[Ali Fazel]

As far as who killed Imam husain (A)

The conspiracy started upon the demise of Prophet (SAW) when Ali (A) was deprived of Khilafat. ---- If you read the letter Abdullah ibn Umar wrote to Mawiah and the reply of Mawiah -- you will know how they conspired against Ali (A) (i.e. the two first Khalif and Mawiah was aware of this.)

Further more Mawiah hated Ali so much that he ordered the abusive statements against Ali from the mimber. Before Mawiah died, he instructed Yazeed that he will not succeed in taking leadership unless he did something about Husain ibn Ali.

So the orders to kill or destroy Husain came from Mawiah's advice too yazeed --- and Yazeed ordered the killing of Husain ibn Ali (A) FOLLOWERS OF MAWIAH AND YAZEED WERE SUNNI (RAW - Not fully established)--- and those people of Kufa who invited Husain to take leadership were partly Shia (again RAW - Not fully established Shia) These people took bribe -- and some even due to the threat of Yazeeds army, turned against Imam Husain (A).

Edited July 26, 2006 by Ali Fazel

[god_has_99_names]

^^^ and hence were no longer Shia ^^^

you know, I thought of a better way to describe my feelings on the original subject (cursing Aisha)

I have been stating over and over that I think telling of her actual bad deeds is ok, but its not OK to lie about her.

Perfect exampleis Umar, perfect example. Somebody (I really cant remember who told me that in his entire life he had NEVER done ANYTHING good at all.

well, masjid Al Aqsa might not exist but through Umars conquring of Jerulsalem, and most notedly when he did conquer there, most sunnis know this story, but a priest offered him the chance to make salaat in the Church of the Holy sepelcre (where they believe Isa was killed) and he declined, he said because future Generations of his followers might use his praying there as an excuse to tear down the church and build a masjid, so he prayed in a courtyard beside the church and in that courtyard today, sits the Masjid of Umar.

Now that was pretty intellegent, and kind. undeniable.. Does it make him a good guy? well lets balance it against his bad deeds... He Rebelled against Allah by Denying Ali the Caliphate, even though him and his buddy abu Bakr had been the FIRST TWO people to swear alliegence to him at ghadir khum, he lied, he robbed the Ahlul Bayt of their propperty, he "indirectly" murdered the Beloved daughter of Muhammed (pbuh) , Fatima (as) and fought wars of forced conversion on people. so no, he was not a good guy, and it is OK and propper to think poorly of him. I am sure even Yazid once hugged a child, or told his mother that he loved her, that doesnt exactly make him a swell kind of dude. the same applies to Aisha in my mind. Her own ACTUAL deeds are enough to condemn her in the eyes of honest people, we dont need to "help" the truth out by adding to it. she wasnt a hooker, she didnt cheat on prophet Muhammed, but she did rebel and fight a war against a man that her husband (and more importantly her prophet) had told her to follow and obey. she did curse the Ahlul Bayt. True But its completely stupid to lie about her and say "oh every word she ever said was a lie". bear in mind how much we love to tell sunnis about how their own hadith tyalk about the episode of the cloak, where Muhammed took the then living Ahlul Bayt under one Cloak and Told of How they were the pinnacle of creation. Do you realize that in sunni books, that very hadith is narrated by Aisha? So was she lying when she said that happened?

Does that make me the president of her fan club not exactly. I think Allah allowed her to misbehave enough for history to condemn her based upon the truth, nothing I can make up will help the condemnation out.

[CatStevens]

i dont know where u get ur info from but the bottom line is that majority of the Army who killed hussain were Kufan((and claimed to be shia before and after his death).that does not make them secretly sunni does it?

[god_has_99_names]

It does not make them secretly anything, but it makes them openly NOT SHIA. the two are opposites. plus not all people from kufa were ever shia. and not many of the kufan army were from kufa. one of myfriends is in the air force, he lives in my town, he is FROM georgia. big difference.

plus, no many if not most of the original group sent to betray hussain betrayed their orders, and another group was sent. I am getting my info from Tears and Tributes among other sources. I told you this

[RayRay]

Assalamu Alaykam,

What does 'Mother of Believers' mean? In the Koran the wives of Rasool Muhammad (pbuh) are referred to as 'Mother of Believers', so what does this mean?

Also, in the Holy Koran, it states that the wives of Rasool Muhammad (saw) have 'an honourable provision', meaning they will be 'forgiven'. What is Shia Islam's view on this?

Wassallam.

anyone?

I have read the history, and you are right, but this is not the Army that "finished the Job"

I recomend you read "tears and Tributes" by Zakir. good book.

Assalamu Alaykam,

Great read 'Tears & Tributes', though I do not think it is historically very factual.

In the book it states that after the martyrdom of Imam Hussein (a.s) and his faithful supporters, Zainab (may Allah be pleased with her) and the other ladies went to the burial of Noor Fatima (a.s) and cried there.

How can this be when the whereabouts of Noor Fatima (a.s) burial site is unknown? Unless, it is known only to those whom belong to the House of the Prophet (pbuh)?

Anyone know?

Wassallam.

[god_has_99_names]

Zakir (the author of Tears and Tributes) is to Islamic History what Tom Clancy is to the CIA. The point I make is that the story is written in the form of a novel. But it uses Facts to back this up. And of Course Zainab would know where HER OWN MOTHER was Burried. I am sure her Father, the Comander of the Faithful told his kids where mom was burried.

(salam),

He (saw) is the reason why we exist. The best of Allah's creation.

I'm sorry, may my life be sacrificed for the other prophets (as), but there is no comparison between him and other Prophets (as).

Wassalaam

We are not supposed to make preference to any prophet. Muhammad (pbuh) is their master because he came with the Final message. The Ahlul Bayt is the best simply because they preseve the final message.. But we shouldn't think that Ali was better than Harun, Ali just had a more important mission.

SHAKIR: Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit Quran; Surah 2, Ayat 136.

keep in mind this translator was a shia.

Edited July 28, 2006 by god_has_99_names

[ServantOfMahdi]

The war Aisha fought against Imam Ali (عليه السلام) wasn't limited to the battlefield, rather extended to the very hadiths that shaped Sunni arguments.

[Abu Hassanain]

Salam

first of all, we’re looking at these matters we should look at chapter ale Imran verse 85 to 91 and see which side of the coin people fall

Also wanted you to evaluate the chapter Baqarah verse 160 through 163 as well as the first soul of chapter 63 the hypocrite

We then have to look at the fact in the first part of 3333 before the grammar switches she was commanded to stay in her house and worship and not leave

She dismayed the direct word of Allah when she left her house and she was admonished to turn back if she heard the dogs barking at a certain place which she was convinced not to

As for love and hate, we were told by the holy prophet in his family love and hate is only for the sake of Allah 

So if someone hates, are you sure it should not be for personal grudge whether it should be for the sake of them all in the commands of Allah she broke in in the vicegetent of Allah she disobeyed 

The verses in chapter 24 the chapter of light will not revealed about her rather they were revealed because people were accusing the holy prophet, peace, and blessing be upon him , an old man and the son of Maryam the copt wasn’t his these verses blur revealed to maintain his honor in the honor of that and to prove the paternity of his son Ibrahim as .

The incident with talha did not occur during the lifetime of the prophet  peace and blessing  upon him because of the narration a cuckhold is cursed

However, their historical discussions that she and Umar were caught by Abbubaker doing something after the death of the holy prophet, peace, and blessings upon him, and those two murdered Aboubaka because of what he sawthose his historical discussions are not without merit and it’s a strong possibility, though it might not b

It’s also a strong discussion that she was the sister of bubble walker not the daughter that she was 28 years old married not a virgin and that her husband was killed by the commander of the faithful at badr and that is why she hated him

She was given to the holy prophet, peace and lessons be upon them after it was begged for him to marry her. He will not refuse something awful more than three times so he accepted the manage.

lady Khadija what’s 28 in a virgin raising three nieces at the time of the marriage, only three years older than the holy prophet, peace and blessings upon her she was at such a high-level, but it’s mentioned that Archangel Gabriel peace upon him brought the Salam of Allah himself to her

Aisha was extremely jealous of Khadijah and by extension Fatimah  for them both

She would complain when the holy prophet, peace and blessings upon him would show affection to his daughter or speak of his late wife 

you’re rebuke you’re saying she believed me when I was rejected. She proclaimed me truthful when they called me a liar. She supported me with her wealth when I was poor, and I was allowed by the Lord. They have a child/childern  with her, but not other women.

There is an narration accepted by both schools of thought whoever refuses to accept the Khalifate of the commander of the faithful and many mention Ali Ibn Abu Talib is a kafir 

So the one who rejected his government and fought against him, surely as a disbeliever

The question becomes why do many of the scholars give verdict saying not to insult her not to mark her not to mark the first three what is the meaning this 

Rather be have advice not to make derogatory poetry, such as the poetry this common about the first two in what people think they did in the house together that they went in two for three days, etc., and not to pronounce the curses on them publicly is to hurt other peoples feelings or ruined dialogue, but they’re not prohibited, telling the truth about them calling out their evils, pointing out the verses, the show their disbelief rather must be done in our respectful way in privately. There’s no problem in cursing them in the bowing frustrating or supplicating of the prayer, prayers. 

In their own most revered book which they’ve edited the later copies there was a narration where our lady Fatima peace be upon her says about the two I will not look at you. I will not speak to you. I will curse you in every prayer and I will complain about you until I meet my father.

There are narrations of the commander of the faithful cursed four men in four women privately in a supplementary prayers 

She caused problems at the battle of the camel at the funeral of our be loved Imam Hassan as and showed her hatred to the family of the holy prophet and her disobedience to the prophet, which is in fact proof that she never loved, obeyed or believed in the holy prophet, peace, and  blessing be upon him 

She was killed by Muwiyah who put a rug over a pit with spikes. She fell in the pit through the chair and was impaled. He poured lime and water, and she was burned alive.

A fitting preparation for her eternal punishment

Love and hatred should be an accordance to the holy Quran and the lifestyle of the prophet and his pure righteous family

wallahu Alam