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In the Name of God بسم الله

Sistani Followers

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  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

Which Wilayah Al-Faqih are you talking about?

The one in Iran or on Al-Umoor Al-Hisbiyyah.

Just to elaborate more on Ya Imam Zaman post.

Every marji' believes in Wilayah Al-Faqih, it is just how wide it is.

Sayed Sistani, Mirza Tabrizi, etc.(Al-Umoor Al-Hisbiyyah, not the government like Iran, etc.)

Hassan Tabatabai

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To be honest that seems like the most nonsense qute of this thread.

Firstly, that leaves people to choose pretty much whoever they like, and people may just start choosing on the basis of whatever makes life easiest for them.

Secondly, it is only logical that people follow the most knowledgeable person. If you were going for surgery and you had a choice of a good surgeon and the best surgeon in the world who would you choose?!

If only people had realised this after the passing of the Prophet (saww) they wouldn't have followed abu bakr, because it is logical to follow the most knowledgeable in Islam who was Ali (as).

Well, Representatives of God are different, no?

Anyways, allow me to show you a fatwa from a marja; I think it makes sense:

It is not necessary that a Mojtahed who is followed be the most learned and the most eligible. Eligibility in its well known sense i.e. being more qualified for inferring and finding out divine injunctions, can not be illustrated and imagined between two Mojtaheds neither in the apparent and external stage nor can it be illustrated in the inner and actual stage. However, being more learned - as I have mentioned in my writings on (Orwatol Wothqa) - means that one of the two Mojtaheds commits less mistakes than the other in referring new sub issues to basic principles. This is imaginable but it is certainly very difficult to determine which one of them commits less mistake to be labeled as (a'alam) (the most learned) and which one of them commits more mistakes to be less learned and less qualified for Taqlid.

This Ayatullah Jannaati, http://jannaati.com/eng/index.php?page=6

Now taqleed is in following Islamic laws right? Take Ayatullahs Behjat, Lankarani, Seestani. Seestani has been disrupted from his academic schedules due to Saddam, etc. He is not studied the most. The other two have not directly engaged in politics and are fulltime teachers. Now again, Lankarani has written many many more books then Behjat. So will you claim Lankarani is most knowledgible? How do you know any of that for sure? Truth be told, we cannot tell at all, even by asking hawza students, as they will have their own bias and exposure. Sure, we can try and should, but we will never be able to really know. Hope I've made my point.

You cannot follow any Mujtahid per your own discrection, as they have *all* said that you can *only* choose a certain Mujtahid in one of only a few situations:

1. You yourself are a member of Ahlul Kibra and can decide such things

2. You take the recommendation of 2 members of Ahlul Kibra.

3. You may also simply follow a Marjah because they are the *most* popular and the majority of people do taqlid of him.

-

rahat

Exactly, we make our best guess, which may very well fall very short of whatever 'reality' is. Look above.

Edited by Cyan_Garamond
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Wow, so much garbage and nonsense on this forum. Tell me.. how in the hell will you know for sure ever who is most knowledgible? Just because he is promoted by some official mullah media? Lol, some people here need to get a life. You can follow any knowledgible mujtahid.

To be honest, it is not possible . . . one will have to depend upon second hand opinion

To be honest that seems like the most nonsense qute of this thread.

Firstly, that leaves people to choose pretty much whoever they like, and people may just start choosing on the basis of whatever makes life easiest for them.

Secondly, it is only logical that people follow the most knowledgeable person. If you were going for surgery and you had a choice of a good surgeon and the best surgeon in the world who would you choose?!

If only people had realised this after the passing of the Prophet (saww) they wouldn't have followed abu bakr, because it is logical to follow the most knowledgeable in Islam who was Ali (as).

The surgeon analogy doesn't seem to click

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But guys I am talking about his official philosophy, which is the quietest-moderate view taken by many shia scholars. The Quietist view is clear that clerics should not mix with the running of the government, and mixing with politics.

(salam)

So what do you call the recent opinion/actions from Sayyid Seestani in the current Iraq situation?

I would not call that quietist.

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You can get the evidence that Sayed Sistani supports WF is

A) Ask his office whether u should follow the WF in Iran , they will not say NO , instead they will give u an answer related to what level u shud follow him to .( indirect abt wf)

B) Ask any of his representatives . just a dial away

Wassalam

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But guys I am talking about his official philosophy, which is the quietest-moderate view taken by many shia scholars. The Quietist view is clear that clerics should not mix with the running of the government, and mixing with politics. The view of these scholars is that clerics are here simply for the religious/spiritual guidance of the people. Sure sistani has stepped in once in a while in Iraq with politics, but the situation in Iraq calls for it, but you don't see him saying he wants to be supreme leader of Iraq, and rule the government...

Salaam,

I cannot see how you could possibly assert this. Ayatollah Sistani has directly intervened in Iraqi politics *several* times to ensure good things.

1. He demanded elections, and forced the US to give them to Iraq

2. He calmed down Iraqi violence in Najaf.

3. He has ordered many times, the Shia to not use violence or weapons.

4. He made it wajib sharii to register to vote.

Thats not "quietist" in any sense of the word.

Furthermore, Ayatollah Hakim of SCIRI is the head of an entire political party in Iraq, and is the closest of the political parties to Ayatollah Sistani. To say that any scholar in the universe believes that "clerics are here simply for the religious/spiritual guidance of the people" is false. No Shia mujtahid believes that. Some simply believe that complicated political matters are left to political experts, but none believe that clerics are supposed to completely abstain to only spiritual topics.

Now taqleed is in following Islamic laws right? Take Ayatullahs Behjat, Lankarani, Seestani. Seestani has been disrupted from his academic schedules due to Saddam, etc. He is not studied the most. The other two have not directly engaged in politics and are fulltime teachers. Now again, Lankarani has written many many more books then Behjat. So will you claim Lankarani is most knowledgible? How do you know any of that for sure? Truth be told, we cannot tell at all, even by asking hawza students, as they will have their own bias and exposure. Sure, we can try and should, but we will never be able to really know. Hope I've made my point.

Exactly, we make our best guess, which may very well fall very short of whatever 'reality' is. Look above.

You have not made any point whatsoever. Just because a Mujtahid studies or does not study for X number of years doesn't necessarily make them the most or least learned. It is the level to which they have grasped that knowledge and written Islamic dissertations on the topic. The Ahlul Kibra then analyze those dissertations and make their own inferences as to who is the most learned Marajah, not based upon guess work like yourself, but intriciate and detailed academic analysis.

You are totally wrong if you think we are allowed to make our best guess, and I challenge you to prove from Quran, Hadith, Fatwa, or Hukm that we are allowed to simply guess our way into performing taqleed.

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rahat

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Salam Alaikum

Okay, I would like to see the evidence that you have

Hassan Tabatabai

inshallah i am waiting for someone to send my proof

but untill then why dont u think about this...

sistani has beleives that qom, iran is the center of the shias in the world when the the beleivers there vote for whos gona b the rahbar they do it togather as beleivers not just as iranians (it seems that most people try to make it an iranian thing and try to start a arab/iranian conflict) therefore if all the beleivers in qom vote for it togather as beleivers they are oing this fo rthe hole muslim ummah not just for iran

bcuz iran happeans to be the only islamic republic in the world it goes by the orders of the rahbar if tehre was any other islamic republic that was shia in the world there it would go by the orders of the rahbar as well

ayat.sistani lived in iran his whole life and supports iran to the end

the iranian guverment does not support anyone who does not support walayat ul fagih and at this time since Khamenai is the Rahbar anyone who doesnt concider him the rahbar they dont support so if ayat.sistani didnt support it then iran wouldnt support him

Everyone, even other Mujtahids, are obligated

to follow the Hukm of the person who has Shar'ei

Wilayah (that is Ayat.Khamenai), when the Hukm is related to public issues (there is no other islamic guverment in the world so therefore this hukm is khamenai)

where social order and people's sustenance are

concerned. On the issues that are related to the

protection of the Islamic system, the accepted Faqih

has Wilayah on all the believers

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(salam)

Ok I sent a question to Sistani's office about what to do incase your marjaa dies, and the response was this:

1. If the deceased Mujtahid is more learned than the living Mujtahid, you must remain in his Taqlid.

2. You must refer to the next most learned Mujtahid regarding new issues.

So that sums it up people, inshallah I am planning to stick with Sayyid Sistani even after his death, unless a new scholar rises in the future which I believe is more learned.

W/salam.

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If you are a person who does taqleed of a marji' first of all, and secondly, you assume Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Seestani is the most knowledgeable, and thirdly, after he dies (may Allah prolong his life), if no other scholar in your opinion becomes more knowledgeable than him, then you MUST still follow Sayyed Seestani in the rulings he has issued, and the next most knowledgeable scholar after him.

You cannot simply change to the next most knowledgeable scholar if you feel he has not yet got more knowledge than Sayyed Seestani, please correct me if I'm wrong?

As with the example of Sayyed Al Khoei. Those who continue to follow him do so because they think that no other scholar, even Sayyed Seestani, is not yet more knowledgeable than Sayyed Al Khoei, therefore they cannot follow someone less knowledgeable than the person they already follow (of course!), except in the newer issues.

So again, I don't think people DO have the choice as to who they follow, they MUST remain followers of Sayyed Seestani UNLESS:

1) There are newer issues, to which they must follow the most knowledgeable scholar alive now, or:

2) The person doing taqleed becomes convinced that the most knowledgeable scholar alive now is now MORE knowledgeable than Sayyed Seestani, and when this happens, then they stop doing taqleed of Sayyed Seestani and now do full taqleed of the most knowledgeable scholar alive.

The above is simple logic, which I assume is the correct outlook on this issue. Please do correct me if I have missed something however.

^ Ah ShiaLeb, by the time I finished writing my reply, you had posted your contribution.

Thank you for confirming what I said above.

Wassalam

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Salaam,

Bro ibi you're exactly right, from my knowledge atleast, except for one small issue. It is not we who get to decide if the "newer" marjah is more knowledgeable, but the Ahlul Kibra who identify such situations for us. I.e. no guess work in volved.

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rahat

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^ bro, I appreciate what you are saying, but ultimately it is you who decides if the "newer" scholar is more knowledgeable. THAT decision however is made based on advice from the Ahlul Khibrah...

If I decide that Sayyed Seestani is more knowledgeable than other scholars for example, that is MY OWN conclusion, but reaching that conclusion I have asked the Ahlul Khibrah, for example Sayyed Al Khoei (who was then considered the most knowledgeable), before he passed away.

Wassalam!

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The Ahlul Kibra then analyze those dissertations and make their own inferences as to who is the most learned Marajah, not based upon guess work like yourself, but intriciate and detailed academic analysis.

Now let me ask you, do you think this 'ahlul kibra' (mullahs) have the same or even similar opinions? Each will say something based on their own experience and knowledge. Yes, go ahead and try it. You will learn a little more, but humanity will always have these major differences in opinion, turbaned or not

You are totally wrong if you think we are allowed to make our best guess, and I challenge you to prove from Quran, Hadith, Fatwa, or Hukm that we are allowed to simply guess our way into performing taqleed.

Lol, Quran, Hadith, Fatwa. I showed you a fatwa; now, Quran hadith. Do any of these talk very specifically about Taqleed and Marja selection? They, at best, suggest following scholars (Taqleed). Do they go into the details even of how you should choose a scholar and the laborious research and inquiry you must make? What a ridiculous statement you've made.

Edited by Cyan_Garamond
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Now let me ask you, do you think this 'ahlul kibra' (mullahs) have the same or even similar opinions? Each will say something based on their own experience and knowledge. Yes, go ahead and try it. You will learn a little more, but humanity will always have these major differences in opinion, turbaned or not

Lol, Quran, Hadith, Fatwa. I showed you a fatwa; now, Quran hadith. Do any of these talk very specifically about Taqleed and Marja selection? They, at best, suggest following scholars (Taqleed). Do they go into the details even of how you should choose a scholar and the laborious research and inquiry you must make? What a ridiculous statement you've made.

First of all, you are completely and overwhelmingly wrong on this topic. The fatwa you posted contains not one word about identifying a particular marjah, it simply dictates the qualities of the marjayatt in general. I shall copy and paste for your viewing pleasure.

It is not necessary that a Mojtahed who is followed be the most learned and the most eligible. Eligibility in its well known sense i.e. being more qualified for inferring and finding out divine injunctions, can not be illustrated and imagined between two Mojtaheds neither in the apparent and external stage nor can it be illustrated in the inner and actual stage. However, being more learned - as I have mentioned in my writings on (Orwatol Wothqa) - means that one of the two Mojtaheds commits less mistakes than the other in referring new sub issues to basic principles. This is imaginable but it is certainly very difficult to determine which one of them commits less mistake to be labeled as (a'alam) (the most learned) and which one of them commits more mistakes to be less learned and less qualified for Taqlid.

This Ayatullah Jannaati, http://jannaati.com/eng/index.php?page=6

Furthermore, your use of the word "mullah" leads me to believe you are using it in a negative connotation. If this is your intent, then you are wholly wrong once again.

So - "NO" you have not shown me any *relevant* fatwa on the topic, whereas I have pasted the words of the worlds top 3 or 4 marjahs. If you want, I can give you the pages of the top 15 marjahs and they will all have the same criterion.

You are duty bound to follow the words of 2 members of Ahlul Kibra, that is your responsibility. Yes, many of them might disagree, but that is not your concern, you simply have to find 2 of them and find out what they say.

A simple search on Shiachat will also clarify the necessity of Taqleed for you, inshallah.

-

rahat

Edited by rahat
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  • 4 years later...
  • Basic Members

Salam,

I was wondering if anyone here can refer me to any websites about Shia Islam in English. I am interested to learn more about Shia, but I have not been able to find many sites in English that explain Shia’ism in a simple yet detailed manor, from the beginning.

Thanks,

Lisa

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Salam,

I was wondering if anyone here can refer me to any websites about Shia Islam in English. I am interested to learn more about Shia, but I have not been able to find many sites in English that explain Shia'ism in a simple yet detailed manor, from the beginning.

Thanks,

Lisa

http://www.al-islam.org/

http://www.islamic-laws.com/

jafriyanews wrote an article on this, apparently sistani is extremely worried about iranian meddling in najaf. And after him it will be a council of the 4 most learned men in najaf. So I seriously doubt khamenei has any kind of endorsement from sistani

isn't jafariyanews owned by Hamid Mosavi?

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Salam,

I was wondering if anyone here can refer me to any websites about Shia Islam in English. I am interested to learn more about Shia, but I have not been able to find many sites in English that explain Shia'ism in a simple yet detailed manor, from the beginning.

Thanks,

Lisa

Hey Lisa,

Welcome to thre forum. As doobybrother has said best Shia website in English is al-islam.org. Its has hundreds of full text books on-line plus a lot of articles on various subjects. Just pick a topic from the list on the left.

al-islam.org LIBRARY

With best wishes.

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Jafriyanews wrote an article on this, apparently sistani is extremely worried about iranian meddling in najaf. And after him it will be a council of the 4 most learned men in najaf. So I seriously doubt khamenei has any kind of endorsement from sistani

Why would Ayatollah Sistani (HA) be concerned by "Iranian meddling", when the whole Country is under occupation from the Kuffar? The article is just garbage.

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Why would Ayatollah Sistani (HA) be concerned by "Iranian meddling", when the whole Country is under occupation from the Kuffar? The article is just garbage.

Chill out, I just assumed it was because seyed sistani advocates the non interference of the clergy and politics as he perceives that it has had a corruptive influence in iran, whereas in iran (obviously) they are strong advocates of that system.

But a brother above seemed to think this hamid moosavi character who owns the site that wrote the article isn't up to much. Does any one know what he does exactly, is he the(self proclaimed) head of the shia in pakistan,but he has no religious credentials?

Edited by ShahHussain
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Chill out, I just assumed it was because seyed sistani advocates the non interference of the clergy and politics as he perceives that it has had a corruptive influence in iran, whereas in iran (obviously) they are strong advocates of that system.

Ayatullah Sistani is fully involved in the making of the current political system in Iraq. From elections to the drafting of Iraqi constitution he has a say. And thus he is considered the most influential figure in Iraq. You may read the statements that come out from his office from time to time and wull understand what I am saying.

Also, Iran was a secular society. The clergy has turned it into an Islamic democracy. How can anyone call it corruptive influence.

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I was referring to the wilayat e faqhi system, wasn't that one of the main differences between the teachings of seyeds al khu'i and khomeini, and is still a point if difference between seyeds sistani and khamenei.

I also belive that sistani feels the corrupting influence has been on the clergy themsleves-the ones actively involved in politics anyway (ayatollah yazdi regularly mounts the pulpit during juma prayer and calls for the killing of his enemies-using the Friday prayer which is ment to be the prayer of unity to activley call for fitna can be considered corruptive) press tv even reports this as if its something to be proud of.

Sistani doesn't want or need political power,nor will he install a cleric as president.

Obviously no muslim from any school would think that the revolution hasn't been great for iran, I personally think to world would be a much worse place without it, I mean imagine a world with no hezbollah...the zionists really would do what they want

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Salam Alaikum

The Ahlul-Khibra of Najaf will make their decision when the time comes. May Allah grant him a long life.

Lol , I guess the khojas dont need to worry about it .... because their world federation will find someone dodgy and impose his marjiat on its people .. or whoever gives them relaxation on khums money...

Why do you think that? Have they done so in the past? Do you think Ayatullah Sayyed Sistani [r] is "dodgy" because they chose him?

Edited by Abbas
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(bismillah)

I was referring to the wilayat e faqhi system, wasn't that one of the main differences between the teachings of seyeds al khu'i and khomeini, and is still a point if difference between seyeds sistani and khamenei.

I dont know a single living Marja who is against the concept of Wilayat e faqhi. The differences among scholars is regarding details (i.e. how much authority WF should have, etc). Ayatullah Sistani also believes in it:

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I also belive that sistani feels the corrupting influence has been on the clergy themsleves-the ones actively involved in politics

What proof do you have for such a belief.

anyway (ayatollah yazdi regularly mounts the pulpit during juma prayer and calls for the killing of his enemies-using the Friday prayer which is ment to be the prayer of unity to activley call for fitna can be considered corruptive) press tv even reports this as if its something to be proud of.

I dont know Ayatullah Yazdi or his speeches. But as a general rule Islam is against killing of innocent human beings or attacking and killing other nations or people of other faith. In that context if by "killing of his enemies" you mean defending his nation against people like Saddam than you should know that self defense is allowed in Islam.

Sistani doesn't want or need political power,nor will he install a cleric as president.

He already has political power and he uses it from time to time.

Also understand that Iraq is not a free country and its not an Islamic system of government either. So what does a cleric have to do to be a president. BTW, even Irans president is not a cleric.

WS

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But a brother above seemed to think this hamid moosavi character who owns the site that wrote the article isn't up to much.

salam.gif

Brother i dont know how did you infer that from my post. I was only enquiring and as it turns out the site in question is run by TNFJ which is headed by Hamid ali Mosavi.

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ayatollah yazdi regularly mounts the pulpit during juma prayer and calls for the killing of his enemies-using the Friday prayer which is ment to be the prayer of unity to activley call for fitna can be considered corruptive) press tv even reports this as if its something to be proud of.

(bismillah)

I'm assuming you are referring to Ayatullah Misbah-Yazdi? Either way, could you provide me with a valid source which claims he has said such things?

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