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In the Name of God بسم الله

comprison (shia) and ( Gnostism)

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Gnostism is a very old religion, first spoken in Greece as the religion of Orpheus. It was acknowledged in Greece at that time 500 BC that it was brought from India.

The main teenants of Gnostism:

two spheres of Existance. The outer existance is the intellect , the inner existance is the material world.

2- the need for a continuous representive from the outer sphere in the inner spher ( Imam)

3- The occultation of representive( Gaibah)

4- the reincarnation ( rajaah)

5: Blood indoctrination in the sect ( Ma'atam)

6- open marriage ( mutaah) or ( Khalwah: Druze Ismaili, Qaramitah at least).

I have put the essential tenants of Gnostism Judhur ( requirements) that no Gnostism is accepted without any one of them.

I also put the equivelent in shia terminology.

Can any body tell me that shia is accepted with out any of ( Imamah, Emanation of God: Badi, Amr, etc), Gaibah, Raj'ah

.

Could these essential doctrines in both coincidence?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

RAJAAH IN QURAN

40.11

YUSUFALI: They will say: "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)?"

PICKTHAL: They say: Our Lord! Twice hast Thou made us die, and twice hast Thou made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out?

SHAKIR: They shall say: Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out?

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Gnostism is a very old religion, first spoken in Greece as the religion of Orpheus. It was acknowledged in Greece at that time 500 BC that it was brought from India.

The main teenants of Gnostism:

two spheres of Existance. The outer existance is the intellect , the inner existance is the material world.

2- the need for a continuous representive from the outer sphere in the inner spher ( Imam)

3- The occultation of representive( Gaibah)

4- the reincarnation ( rajaah)

5: Blood indoctrination in the sect ( Ma'atam)

6- open marriage ( mutaah) or ( Khalwah: Druze Ismaili, Qaramitah at least).

I have put the essential tenants of Gnostism Judhur ( requirements) that no Gnostism is accepted without any one of them.

I also put the equivelent in shia terminology.

Can any body tell me that shia is accepted with out any of ( Imamah, Emanation of God: Badi, Amr, etc), Gaibah, Raj'ah

.

Could these essential doctrines in both coincidence?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wat are u trying to say here exactly?? :unsure:

that shiism is derived from gnostism?

if yes, u are nutts

:!!!:

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rajaa is not in Quraan

Quran sura2:28: ( how do you not beleive in Allah and you were dead and he made you alive and then dead and then resurructed you alive in the day of Judgement)

We were dead ( mudghah-first part of pregnancy then given life )

this is two lives and two dead.

if there is Rajaa then it will be 3 dead and 3 lives( or 2 dead and 3 lives if you don't qualify dead in the first semester of fetus)

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The only two religions that share these 5 requireemnts are shia and Gnostism. No other religion share with them these beleifs.

I challenge you.

There might be some hindu religions that take one or two of those requirements but are not considered Judhur ( Usul)

Do you know of any person confess shia and does not believe in either rajaa-Gaiba-Imamah, Emanation of God(unity-Wahdah)-blood lettinf in ceremonies.

if not then they are the same religion.

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If Muhammad beleives in Gnostism he would have mentioned some of the names of their famous prophets or Scholars like Prophet Mani Manichism( majoose) or Ammonius Saqqas or Plotinus or Plato.

If he did not mention them then he did not beleive in Gnostism.

As I showed you in the table above, these fundamentals are essential in Gnostism religion ( an old Hindu religion): Rajaa, Gaibah, Emanation of God ( intervals from Badi to Amr to rouh) , the need for rep of God (amr) in earth in all times (infaiable Imam who knows every thing even the drop of water where it is), Blood ceremonial indoctrination ( ma'atam), need for Mutaa or Khalwa ( sharing wives), and visitations of shrines ( graves, hill, tree on a hill, etc),

Mani the prophet of Magi ( majoose) who preached that people marry their daughters so that the inheritance stay in the family, and the need not to divide inheritance and hence suffering)

Hamadan Qurmuti also made fun of Umma Mankousa because they raise their daughters to give them to starngers.

Also, Hamdan suggested that a new recruit give his wife for a night to an elder member, while he waits all night long untill Fajr and then he call them ( hurry before this Umma Mankusa find out about us), You know of course about Khalwa ( where druse and qaramitah( shia of Syria) go to a cave or a big house and turn off the lights and share wives in the day of Gadir ( druse), called ( Sayd in Qaramitah). Qaramitah who are the ancestors of shia in Syria and Lebanon ( Zunj)

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If Muhammad beleives in Gnostism he would have mentioned some of the names of their famous prophets or Scholars like Prophet Mani Manichism( majoose) or Ammonius Saqqas or Plotinus or Plato.

If he did not mention them then he did not beleive in Gnostism.

As I showed you in the table above, these fundamentals are essential in Gnostism religion ( an old Hindu religion): Rajaa, Gaibah, Emanation of God ( intervals from Badi to Amr to rouh) , the need for rep of God (amr) in earth in all times (infaiable Imam who knows every thing even the drop of water where it is), Blood ceremonial indoctrination ( ma'atam), need for Mutaa or Khalwa ( sharing wives), and visitations of shrines ( graves, hill, tree on a hill, etc),

Mani the prophet of Magi ( majoose) who preached that people marry their daughters so that the inheritance stay in the family, and the need not to divide inheritance and hence suffering)

Hamadan Qurmuti also made fun of Umma Mankousa because they raise their daughters to give them to starngers.

Also, Hamdan suggested that a new recruit give his wife for a night to an elder member, while he waits all night long untill Fajr and then he call them ( hurry before this Umma Mankusa find out about us), You know of course about Khalwa ( where druse and qaramitah( shia of Syria) go to a cave or a big house and turn off the lights and share wives in the day of Gadir ( druse), called ( Sayd in Qaramitah). Qaramitah who are the ancestors of shia in Syria and Lebanon ( Zunj)

(salam) sister

I believe it was Imam Jafar Sadiq who founded Gnosticism (Irfan). Well not that he started the process of Irfan, but he actually made it in a form from a rudimentary stage to a state of perfection.

You can check the book out

The Great Imam

Jafar Ibn Muhammad As-Sadiq (a.s)

Translated by Kaukab Ali Mirza

ISBN: 0-9699490-1-4

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did imam Jaafar mention any of those pillars of Gnostism like ( zurastra, Mani, Plato, Plotinos, Saqqas)?

Other wise how do you explain the exact doctrines ( rajaa, gaiba, taqiyya, blood letting indoctrination, mutaa, ziyrat, emanations of God ( unity of God), imamah.

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did imam Jaafar mention any of those pillars of Gnostism like ( zurastra, Mani, Plato, Plotinos, Saqqas)?

Other wise how do you explain the exact doctrines ( rajaa, gaiba, taqiyya, blood letting indoctrination, mutaa, ziyrat, emanations of God ( unity of God), imamah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have any knowledge of Shia hadith? Not all of them are judged authentic by Shia scholars (we have no 'Sahih' books). Look in... Biharul Anwar, Kitabul Irshad, Usoolul Kafi, etc.

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did imam Jaafar mention any of those pillars of Gnostism like ( zurastra, Mani, Plato, Plotinos, Saqqas)?

Other wise how do you explain the exact doctrines ( rajaa, gaiba, taqiyya, blood letting indoctrination, mutaa, ziyrat, emanations of God ( unity of God), imamah.

For the emanations of God, it was known that after the death of the Imam (as), people started to claim that there was no difference between God and human, except in form and shape. This of course was the foundation of philosophical ideas that spread to the East in it's twisted form. Monists claimed that God was the building block of matter and everything we see is God. Others claim we have to be going to cylces to achieve the ultimate man or values in man. Imam Jafar was not known to support this twisted idea of theirs concerning unity of God. He taught the unity of God as the standalone feature.

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If Muhammad beleives in Gnostism he would have mentioned some of the names of their famous prophets or Scholars like Prophet Mani Manichism( majoose) or Ammonius Saqqas or Plotinus or Plato.

If he did not mention them then he did not beleive in Gnostism.

As I showed you in the table above, these fundamentals are essential in Gnostism religion ( an old Hindu religion): Rajaa, Gaibah, Emanation of God ( intervals from Badi to Amr to rouh) , the need for rep of God (amr) in earth in all times (infaiable Imam who knows every thing even the drop of water where it is), Blood ceremonial indoctrination ( ma'atam), need for Mutaa or Khalwa ( sharing wives), and visitations of shrines ( graves, hill, tree on a hill, etc),

Mani the prophet of Magi ( majoose) who preached that people marry their daughters so that the inheritance stay in the family, and the need not to divide inheritance and hence suffering)

Hamadan Qurmuti also made fun of Umma Mankousa because they raise their daughters to give them to starngers.

Also, Hamdan suggested that a new recruit give his wife for a night to an elder member, while he waits all night long untill Fajr and then he call them ( hurry before this Umma Mankusa find out about us), You know of course about Khalwa ( where druse and qaramitah( shia of Syria) go to a cave or a big house and turn off the lights and share wives in the day of Gadir ( druse), called ( Sayd in Qaramitah). Qaramitah who are the ancestors of shia in Syria and Lebanon ( Zunj)

druze are not shias.their shia link is only in history books.we dont share anything common with them.they are an offshoot of ismailis.there are druze that even deny being muslim.

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If Muhammad beleives in Gnostism he would have mentioned some of the names of their famous prophets or Scholars like Prophet Mani Manichism( majoose) or Ammonius Saqqas or Plotinus or Plato.

If he did not mention them then he did not beleive in Gnostism.

Muhammad mentioned Jesus...the "Gnostic" Essene (kinda fits with logic and historical accounts) version of Jesus,

rather than the Roman version.

wait, you said this yourself in another forum....

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(salam)

Most religions that exist today were (at some point in history) based on the teachings one of the 124,000 Prophets (a.s.) sent to mankind. If you find two religions that are similar, it is because (unless a connection can be proven) they both (at some point) came from a divine source.

Regarding the specific speculative claim, you have presented no specific evidence. If you want to claim that Shiism is a derivative of "Gnoticism" (although the term, Gnoticism is similar to Arfan, the term used in Shiism is in reference to a "science of knowledge", not a set of specific beliefs and practices), you must prove that Shiism originated from somewhere other then the Ahly al'Bayt (a.s.) of the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.). To prove this, you will have to give an alternate source for the hadith in Shia books, which is the basis for Shiism (along with Quran).

If you claim that Shiism is not based on Quran and hadith, then you must prove that SPECIFIC LEGAL OR PHILOSOPHICAL doctrine are NOT derived from Quran and hadith.

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