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In the Name of God بسم الله

Would you ever accept the recognition of Israel?

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There are some Shias who would accept Israel if some conditions are met (ex. withdrawal from West Bank, no restrictions on Palestinians, etc.).

I would like to hear those people and their conditions.

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The country should be treated as the Palestinians Country - ruled by them. But i guess the children born to the settlers hav a right to stay, but under laws. They are only visitors !!!! I hate israel i hate them i hate them i hate them !!

:)

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If they claim that land belongs to them because of old texts saying they lived there. Then I want that land back in the hand of the Iranians. It will be called Iran, and everyone will live in peace.

PersianEmpire03.jpg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, it belongs to babylonians :Hijabi: iraqis :unsure:

and iran is owned by saudia :!!!: then

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I, personally, have no problem with Jews living in Palestine, but I do not agree with their agressive military takeover of Palestenian lands.  Those who have migrated there should be considered immigrants, and the ones born there should be considered Palestinians, The Palestinians as a whole can choose a rightful leader, to equitably lead the Jews and the Muslims in that land.  Nobody should be denied rights to life and practice of their beliefs, so long as they don't interfere with others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sounds fair but what will be the name of the country palestine or isreal,what abt other country affairs from educations till doplomatic then the formal religion &so many country affairs.i don`t think its simple like u said

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(bismillah)

This isnt about Jews or Palestinians, I believe the question is accepting Israel as a legitimate country.

Maybe a year ago, I would have said yes, I would except it, for the following reasons:

- It is the only realistic solution to peace

- Israel can't be undone now..its too late

However, Now I'd say NO..NEVER...accepting Israel means accepting oppression, years of violence and injust deaths of Palestinians, accepting homes demolished and people left homeless.

Whoever accepts Israel uses the "if you can't beat'em, join'em" concept, and that is unreasonable. We must continue to stand against it, and more then ever.

Gaza is a beginning, we'd like to go back to the 1948 borders.

Jews can and have lived there for many years, (Arab Jews) bringing loads of european Jews doesnt count..they should go back where they came from.

ws

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Studies of Jewish Populations

Advanced genetic testing, including Y-DNA and mtDNA haplotyping, of modern Jewish communities around the world, has helped to determine which of the communities are likely to descend from the Israelites and which are not, as well as to establish the degrees of separation between the groups. Important studies archived here include the University College London study of 2002, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2001, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2000, Michael Hammer's study of 2000, and others.

Key findings:

The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into haplogroups J and E.

Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).

Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.

Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.

Georgian Jews (Gruzim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.

Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.

Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.

Libyan Jews are mainly Berbers.

Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.

Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite. :!!!: :!!!:

Edited by Lester
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(bismillah)

Israel is currently synonymous with corruption and oppression, death and destruction. Recognizing that it is legitimate is recognizing that the corruption, oppression, death, and destruction is legitimate.

Therefore recognition should come when it no longer supports corruption and murder, and recognizes equal rights for all inhabitants to cohabitate peacefully in the Holy Land.

This means there to be One State.

(salam)

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(salam)

once you acknowledge, recognise and respect your enemy then it moves you one step closer to defeating them.

I find it extremely retarded and illogical for people to refuse to recognise that their is an enemy, be it an individual or a nation, camped in your territory. what good will it do to your cause if you blatlantly refuse to accept reality? Israel exists and is recognised internationally whether you except or not and irrespective of how it came into existence in the 1st place. taking this into account allows us to move on and think about how we can deal with our enemy.

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(bismillah)

This isnt about Jews or Palestinians, I believe the question is accepting Israel as a legitimate country.

Maybe a year ago, I would have said yes, I would except it, for the following reasons:

- It is the only realistic solution to peace

- Israel can't be undone now..its too late

However, Now I'd say NO..NEVER...accepting Israel means accepting oppression, years of violence and injust deaths of Palestinians, accepting homes demolished and people left homeless.

Whoever accepts Israel uses the "if you can't beat'em, join'em" concept, and that is unreasonable. We must continue to stand against it, and more then ever.

Gaza is a beginning, we'd like to go back to the 1948 borders.

Jews can and have lived there for many years, (Arab Jews) bringing loads of european Jews doesnt count..they should go back where they came from.

ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why the change of mind after one year ?

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Single state solution, whereby the illegal state of Israel is wiped off the map via referendum. Anything less is a diversion of the issue and injustice to the Palestinians. Jews, Christians and Muslims will never co-exist peacefully in the shadow of the criminal zionist regime.

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Guest Katayon
Let's be realistic here, do you actually think Israel will be wiped off? I want practical answers not emotional.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wiped off the map, yes. as soon as we take the name of israel off the map and replace it with palestine. and move israel on over to europe.

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1. Asking Jews to migrate back is like asking the 10s of million of muslims migrate back from the West to where they came from.

2. There never was a Palestinian state. During the Jewish migration to the promise land, there was 1. the Ottoman Empire, then later 2. The British Mandate of Palestine. Jews saw this and took advantage of this.

3. The Arabs had there only and last chance to get back the promise land in the 60s wars, but got embarrased and lost 4 times the amount of the size of current Israel. Israelis feeling so sad to there counterparts, they gave them almost all of the land back. Israel could have very well have expanded and claimed right for there land, because they were attacked. This could have been what is today Israel:

post6dwisraelmap.jpg

But they didnt. They felt so bad for the arabs, they gave the land back to the Egyptians and promised to work on forming a Independent Palestinian state, by giving back the West Bank and Gaza. What do Palis do? Blow themselves up every chance they could get. Of course your going to get your ass kicked everytime you bomb Israel! What do you think they are going to do? Just sit there? Palestinians have been used by there arab brothers, in return they get screwed. They try to fight by themselves, and they screw there situation even more.

4. The time for peace and a two-state soluation is now. If Palis still want to resist, then they can live in poverty for the rest of there lives.

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1. Asking Jews to migrate back is like asking the 10s of million of muslims migrate back from the West to where they came from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually its nothing alike. did muslims come to america and europe and kick people out of their house by force and install a new government 50 years ago in the name of their muslim heritage?

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1. Asking Jews to migrate back is like asking the 10s of million of muslims migrate back from the West to where they came from.

2. There never was a Palestinian state. During the Jewish migration to the promise land, there was 1. the Ottoman Empire, then later 2. The British Mandate of Palestine. Jews saw this and took advantage of this.

3. The Arabs had there only and last chance to get back the promise land in the 60s wars, but got embarrased and lost 4 times the amount of the size of current Israel. Israelis feeling so sad to there counterparts, they gave them almost all of the land back. Israel could have very well have expanded and claimed right for there land, because they were attacked. This could have been what is today Israel:

post6dwisraelmap.jpg

But they didnt. They felt so bad for the arabs, they gave the land back to the Egyptians and promised to work on forming a Independent Palestinian state, by giving back the West Bank and Gaza. What do Palis do? Blow themselves up every chance they could get. Of course your going to get your ass kicked everytime you bomb Israel! What do you think they are going to do? Just sit there? Palestinians have been used by there arab brothers, in return they get screwed. They try to fight by themselves, and they screw there situation even more.

4. The time for peace and a two-state soluation is now. If Palis still want to resist, then they can live in poverty for the rest of there lives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

why americans are soo concerned about israel and jews??

watch urself first

usa3.jpg

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actually its nothing alike.  did muslims come to america and europe and kick people out of their house by force and

I see that you have been informed false myths about the Migration of Jews.

Jews did not just 'kicked arabs out' of there houses honey. They did it the legal way, by buying land from the Ottoman Turks and independent Palestinian people.

I will repost what I posted the other day

Tensions erupted between the Jews and Arabs after the 1880s, when nationalistic, European Jews began to immigrate and augment Palestinian Jewish communities by buying up land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders, and establishing agricultural settlements in the historic lands of Judea and Israel, which were then part of the Ottoman empire [1]. Several murderous Arab outbreaks occurred during this period: Riots in Palestine of 1920, Jaffa riots of 1921. To assuage the Arabs, and due to British inability to control Arab violence in the British Mandate any other way, the semi-autonomous Arab Emirate of Transjordan was created in all Palestinian territory east of the Jordan river (roughly 80% of the mandate). But the violence continued: Riots in Palestine of 1929, a series of Zionist attacks, the Great Arab Uprising of 1936-1939, the Assassination of British Mandate Officials, and the 1946 King David Hotel bombing. Overall violence resulted in loss of life on all sides.

During the 1920s, 100,000 Jewish immigrants entered Palestine, and 6,000 non-Jewish immigrants did so as well.

Land purchased by Jewish agencies was leased on the conditions that it be worked only by Jewish labour and that the lease should not be held by non-Jews.

Initially, Jewish immigration to Palestine met little opposition from the Palestinian Arabs. However, as anti-Semitism grew in Europe during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Jewish immigration (mostly from Europe) to Palestine began to increase markedly, creating much Arab resentment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

After WWII, it was mainly Jews from Muslim countries who started to flock the new country of Israel because of persecution by muslims. Numbering around 800,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

and install a new government 50 years ago in the name of their muslim heritage?

There never was a Palestinian goverment. If there was, then this situation would be a totally different thing. There was British rule of Palestine, under British law. Before that, it was Ottoman rule, with Ottoman law. They both dissolved and Israel was formed.

Edited by ProudAmerican
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Guest Katayon
I see that you have been informed false myths about the Migration of Jews.

Jews did not just 'kicked arabs out' of there houses honey. They did it the legal way, by buying land from the Ottoman Turks and independent Palestinian people.

oh sure they did. i saw the video myself with the german soliders escorting the jews into homes of palestinines. dont dish out that bs for us here, everyone knows who wrote those fake documents and excuses.

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actually its nothing alike.  did muslims come to america and europe and kick people out of their house by force and install a new government 50 years ago in the name of their muslim heritage?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said Katayon.

I see that you have been informed false myths about the Migration of Jews.

Jews did not just 'kicked arabs out' of there houses honey. They did it the legal way, by buying land from the Ottoman Turks and independent Palestinian people.

I will repost what I posted the other day

This person is really a disgrace to America, with his nonsense. The Zionists did, in fact, kick them out. Roughly 80% of the non-Jewish population of the area that became the racist state of "Israel" were ethnically cleansed.

Furthermore, at the time of the creation of the state of "Israel", Jews owned less than 6% of the land in Palestine. During the Israeli war of ethnic cleansing in 1948, they simply confiscated most ot the land which belonged to the Palestinians, and have never paid any sort of compensation.

Most of the stolen land was then turned over to the Jewish National Fund for the exclusive use of Jews.

There never was a Palestinian goverment. If there was, then this situation would be a totally different thing. There was British rule of Palestine, under British law. Before that, it was Ottoman rule, with Ottoman law.

This statement is irrelevant and stupid. There never was an independent country called Puerto Rico, but I dare say that if the US turned it over to the Chinese, or some other group, the Puerto Ricans, (or people from the island of Puerto Rico, or whatever one wants to call them) would not appreciate it, nor would it be the morally correct thing to do.

The fact that the person who denigrates America by calling himself "ProudAmerican" would make such an idiotic statement only indicates that he is incapable of serious reasoning and discussion. All he can do is mindlessly regurgitate the nonsense that he hears and reads in the Zionist press.

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Additional Point:

I would only accept a 'one-state' solution: one man one vote, one state. No expulsions, no restrictions on the right to return..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Shah, however, I also think that those responsible for the establishment and maintenance of the racist state of "Israel" should be punished for their crimes.

Let's be realistic here, do you actually think Israel will be wiped off? I want practical answers not emotional.

Well, it is the only solution which is consonant with the principles of Justice.

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Let's be realistic here, do you actually think Israel will be wiped off? I want practical answers not emotional.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Recently we saw the zionist regime ceeding Gaza and following that a popular government took its place which is not intent on recognising Israel without further concessions. Under such persistent pressure and cognisance Israel will have no choice but to concede. This is definite.

As for the removal of the zionist entity, this is a more difficult task but not outright impossible. Nor should Muslims for a moment consider it to be impossible. If anything this eventuality will materialise in succesive stages (as above). It is ideal but not far fetched. It requires the collective efforts and support of regional countries and the Islamic world to create the circumstances necessitating a referendum among Palestinians and Israeli's to this end. As I said previousely, it is unlikely that palestinians and israeli's will live peacefully under the shadow of a brutal zionist regime and the consequent reaction of the resistance groups. Let the inhabitants of the region, Israeli's and Palestinians, Jews, Muslims and Christians, determine their fate.

Edited by MajiC
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Jews did not just 'kicked arabs out' of there houses honey. They did it the legal way, by buying land from the Ottoman Turks and independent Palestinian people.

ProudAmerican

Let's say I live in California, you move here and I sell my house to you.. I move to michigan since houses are rather cheap there, but after a while I feel like going back to California since I miss the warm weather there...

Now tell me, should I be allowed to buy another property in california? if not, why not?

In my understanding, I've only given up my property - not my right to return...

Edited by ShahLatif
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I will only reply to people who are realistic and want to have a educated debate, not a emotional one (you made a fool out of your self Greg)

ProudAmerican

Let's say I live in California, you move here and I sell my house to you.. I move to michigan since houses are rather cheap there, but after a while I feel like going back to California since I miss the warm weather there...

Now tell me, should I be allowed to buy another property in california? if not, why not?

In my understanding, I've only given up my property - not my right to return...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question.

There are two parts here we are talking about:

1. The years before the formation of Israel

2. The years after the formation of Israel

The years before the formation of Israel

Before the formation of Israel, what is today Israel, was a mixture of Palis and Jews. When a Pali sold a land to a Jew in one area, he would go to another area and buy a bigger/richer land. But, as Jews started to buy land, they practiced this action of not selling there land to anybody who is nonjew. This of course over time, made Jews more powerful in terms of the amount of land they owned.

Was this morally wrong? Yes, of course it was. It was racism. Did they have the right to do it? Yes they did. It was there right, since they owned the land. Just like how if I owned every land in Cali, and you want to come back - I would techniquly have the right not selling any of the land back to you.

The years after the formation of Israel.

Now, more specifically, this Israel, under its constitution has a line stating "Jews have to always be the majority of Israel" - now, you can feel how you want to feel about that. Indeed, Israel is not a full-democracy nation, because of its special laws that give Jews the guarantee to always be in control of Israel - in terms of power and population. Israel will never become a full-democracy, because it fears that muslim would make the majority out of nowhere, if they were a full democracy. It would let Palis have the right to buy any land they like in Israel, etc.

In conclusion; the situation of the holy land is very complicated. A special one that should not be compared with the rest of the land in our world. The only thing I know is that, I would like to see peace. I hope you and eveyrbody else here would too. Now, people need to realize that the only way we can achieve this is buy respecting the other side, letting each side have its own land. A 2 state solution is the perfect solution and would insure peace. Israel will not screw with Palis, if they dont bother them. Its that simple.

Proud American, would you support the expulsion of Europeans from North American,

For the most part, nobody was expulsed during the formation of Israel. After, yes. That is a whole another story.

Edited by ProudAmerican
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