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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why isn't it doublanimity or quadrupilinity

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^come again?

I mean he presents a valid argument, was the trinity adapted to 'comfort' undying pagean and idol rituals?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The burden of proof lies with him. If he believes this, then let him present his reasons.

Making an unsubstantiated claim doesn't make it a 'valid argument'.

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The burden of proof lies with him. If he believes this, then let him present his reasons.

Making an unsubstantiated claim doesn't make it a 'valid argument'.

I agree with the 2nd comment, but not the first. If you really believe in the trinity, then I assume you believe in it because of proof. So prove God is 3, and not 4, or 2.

Can you prove he is so, without using the bible? I am assuming you can, if the trinity is true.

Using the bible would only be circular logic: That god is trinity, because the bible says so, and the bible is true, because the holy trinity said so.

So you wouldn't be able to prove to someone that God is trinity, who doesn't know of the bible. This would mean the only people who would accept it, is either blindly, alternative motives, are being born so, which would also entail brain washing. This isn't necessarily the case if you can funish a proof.

Edited by shams
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Alright, give me a good justification behind it being a trinity ?

Why isn't Mary considered a goddess?

Is it trinity because all the pagan religions prior to christianity had a trinity of gods? Hindu trimurti is an example.

The only justification anyone can give for anything is what they believe.

Why would Mary be a goddess?

Which pagan religions had a trinity of Gods?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Alright, give me a good justification behind it being a trinity ?

Why isn't Mary considered a goddess?

Is it trinity because all the pagan religions prior to christianity had a trinity of gods? Hindu trimurti is an example.

:Hijabi:

She is in your Koran.. such was the bad understanding of the Trinity by Mohammed.

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She is in your Koran.. such was the bad understanding of the Trinity by Mohammed.

first there is no where in the quran where it says mary is part of the trinity.the trinity is exclusively mentioned.there are other christians who also deitify mary.the catholics do it.she doesnt have be be part of the trinity to be deitified.your ignorance made you jump into conclusions.

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first there is no where in the quran where it says mary is part of the trinity.the trinity is exclusively mentioned.there are other christians who also deitify mary.the catholics do it.she doesnt have be be part of the trinity to be deitified.your ignorance made you jump into conclusions.

Sura 5:116.

Before you label others ignorant, find a mirror, take a close look, and then you will be clear on what it is.

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And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner­self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All­Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.

5:116

Wow, is this a mistake in the Quran?

It seems the Muslims obscession with the Trinity may be misplaced after all.

I do hope some intelegent Muslim can come up with an explaination.

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The burden of proof lies with him. If he believes this, then let him present his reasons.

Making an unsubstantiated claim doesn't make it a 'valid argument'.

(salam)

I agree. Just because "John has blond hair and Joe has blond hair" doesn't mean "John and Joe are related". In order to prove that the Trinity is a pagan (and not a Biblical) concept, the burden of proof is on you (the accuser) to prove it. Your proof must establish a "link of causality" between the pagan concept of the Trinity and the Christian concept of the Trinity.

I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, however, you "anti-mason" certainly have not yet proven your argument.

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PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden? 5:116

Wow, is this a mistake in the Quran?

It seems the Muslims obscession with the Trinity may be misplaced after all.

I do hope some intelegent Muslim can come up with an explaination.

Why would some assume this ayah is specifically refuting the current notion of "Trinity" (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)? Maybe there were some christians at the time who prayed to Mary (as) and Prophet Jesus (pbuh) instead of Allah and took them as helpers instead of direct worship of and to become closer to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

If you assume this ayah is speaking of the current notion of Trinity, then it would appear to be an error. But, if you read the tafsir (commentary) found at the bottom of the page containing this verse in the Yusuf Ali translation of the quran it says:

"Jesus disclaims here any knowledge of the sort of things that are attributed to him by those who take his name. The worship of Mary, though repudiated by the Protestants, was widely spread in the earlier Churches, both in the East and the West."

So, again, how does this verse directly address the current idea of "Trinity"? I would contend that this ayah does not sum up the current Muslim perception of what the "Trinity" is. This ayah then does not appear to be any kind of mistake, and The Creator knows best.

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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Wow, is this a mistake in the Quran?

It seems the Muslims obscession with the Trinity may be misplaced after all.

I do hope some intelegent Muslim can come up with an explaination.

(salam)

Please remember that their was no such thing as Protestants (who clearly reject the worship of Sayida Maryam (a.s.) (Mary)) at the time of the revelation of the Holy Quran. If you doubt that Catholics worship Mary, see RECENT statements by the Catholic Church that reflect the teachings of THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH at the time (i.e., The Roman Catholic Church).

In an Encyclical dated Feb. 2, 1869, Pius IX declared that "Mary is exalted to the throne of God. Our salvation is founded on the Holy Virgin, since God the Lord has deposited in her fullness of all good, so that if there is hope and spiritual healing for us, we receive it solely and alone from her."

The church close by the Vatican has upon its marble pediment, graven in large letters, "Let us come to the throne of the Virgin Mary, that we may find grace to help in time of need."

To this very day, their are groups of Christians who would like to worship her.

" A movement is now underway among Romanists to incorporate Mary into the Trinity as the manifestation of the Holy Spirit,

We maintain the hypothesis that the Virgin Mary, Mother of God and of all men and women, realizes the feminine absolutely and eschatologically, inasmuch as the Holy Spirit has made her his temple, sanctuary, and tabernacle in so real and genuine a way that she is to be regarded as hypostatically united to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity. [Emphasis in original.]

Leonardo Boff, O.F.M., 1987, "The Maternal Face of God", San Francisco: Harper & Row, p.93. Original Spanish, 1979, imprimatur & nihil obstat

WEB SOURCE: http://www.abcog.org

If you think this is a fringe group, then look at some statements and actions of THE LAST CATHOLIC POPE.

" "Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate." -Pope John Paul II

SOURCE: http://www.remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm

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If you doubt that Catholics worship Mary, see RECENT statements by the Catholic Church that reflect the teachings of THE ONLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH at the time (i.e., The Roman Catholic Church).

.....................................

The church close by the Vatican has upon its marble pediment, graven in large letters, "Let us come to the throne of the Virgin Mary, that we may find grace to help in time of need."

....................................

" A movement is now underway among Romanists to incorporate Mary into the Trinity as the manifestation of the Holy Spirit,

......................

WEB SOURCE: http://www.abcog.org

If you think this is a fringe group, then look at some statements and actions of THE LAST CATHOLIC POPE.

..........................................

SOURCE: http://www.remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm

The Roman Church was not the only Christian church of that or any other day. Those who put this rather silly notion into your mind are clearly trying to deceive you.

The Roman Catholic teachings were then, that on death, a soul could, 1) If it was righteous and holy go straight to heaven, 2) that if the person died in Holy innocence the soul would go to limbo, 3) that most souls would go to purgatory until judgement day, 4) the evil would go straight to hell.

Those who went straight to heaven would be with God. Various tests are made on those believed to have gone straight to heaven and those believe to be there are titled Saints. The Catholics reasoned that since they were with God they could intercede on behalf of the worthy on Earth. That is why catholics prayed and still do to Saints.

Mary is taken as being exalted among saints because she was the mother of Jesus.

The web site you gave for this campaign to have Mary made part of the trinity appears to be rather Muslim in outlook!!

The very idea is impossible and if you have any understanding of the Trinity you would realise this.

The web site claiming the last Pope supported this appears to be an anti-Catholic site. If you every get the chance to live in Belfast or the West of Scotland I suggest you check out the Masonic Protestants there, (Ian Paisley for example). They will probably support such sites and views. They are very weird people.

The very idea that anyone with an ounce of credibility in the Roman Catholic Church could even consider such a notion is preposterous.

I appreciate that such distortions suit the aims of Muslims as they follow their instructions to attack the Christians by undermining the trinity every chance they get.

To be quite honest, all you really achieve with this sort of lackadaisical banter is to appear to be fools who don't know what you're talking about.

Because you clearly don't.

I have been asked by Muslims before if Mary was part of the Trinity. It would seem that the verse from the Quran explains much of this confusion.

While I appreciate that ordinary Muslims cannot be expected to fully understand the issues they are told to discuss and criticise, the same cannot be said for those scholars and leaders who put these words and ideas into your mouths.

Since you are clearly being deceived, can you perhaps ask yourselves why?

Roman Catholic doctrine on the Virgin Mary http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Roman Catholic doctrine on the Trinity http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

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first there is no where in the quran where it says mary is part of the trinity.the trinity is exclusively mentioned.there are other christians who also deitify mary.the catholics do it.she doesnt have be be part of the trinity to be deitified.your ignorance made you jump into conclusions.

Not in those words. You are right that the Quran does not specifically mention the Trinity. It does, however, allude to the veneration Christians had both for Mary and Jesus, claiming that it amounted to deification.

There is very little reason for anyone to gloat over what they might love to think is a shortcoming in the Quran. Because it isn't.

In all likelihood, Christians of that region - or at least some - believed Mary to be part of the godhead. I am told that in the Phillipines and some other places, some Catholics still do.

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(salam)

Dear surfinjo,

The Quran never says that Christians consider Mary part of the Trinity, it says that SOME Christians "Took Prophet Jesus (a.s.) and his mother as Gods besides Allah (s.w.a.)" based on my research into Roman Catholic doctrine, I am POSITIVE that the worship of Mary has been a reoccuring theme among Christians throughout history and many Catholics (even today) do, in fact, WOSHIP Saidina Maryiam (a.s.), whether they actually use the word "worship" or not.

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based on my research into Roman Catholic doctrine, I am POSITIVE that the worship of Mary has been a reoccuring theme among Christians throughout history and many Catholics (even today) do, in fact, WOSHIP Saidina Maryiam (a.s.), whether they actually use the word "worship" or not.

Then your researches are wrong.

There is no such worship and never has been.

Roman Catholics pray to Saints to ask them to intertceed with God.

This is questionable but, given the dogma surrounding it, hardly the same thing since these saints are not assumed to have any powers of authority other than being in the presence of God

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Then your researches are wrong.

There is no such worship and never has been.

Roman Catholics pray to Saints to ask them to intertcede with God.

This is questionable but, given the dogma surrounding it, hardly the same thing since these saints are not assumed to have any powers of authority other than being in the presence of God

The Quran was talking to Christians of the region. Clearly, there must have been some in the area with beliefs which Islam was trying to dismantle. There is no proof that there weren't such people in that area. As I said before, some Filipino Catholics still have a deific faith in Mary.

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The Quran was talking to Christians of the region. Clearly, there must have been some in the area with beliefs which Islam was trying to dismantle.

Seem to be grasping at straws a bit there.

This is really stretching things a bit. The Christians of the ME at the time of Muhammad were principally the Syrian and Coptic churches. Their beliefs are a matter of record.

The Quran made a mistake. Accept it.

There is no proof that there weren't such people in that area. As I said before, some Filipino Catholics still have a deific faith in Mary.

And there are places of worship in central America where people have a whole collection of Gods. Many have strange names, all are represented by strange statues.

Among these is the God Jesus.

the God Mary,

and, the God Muhammad.

Such practises are no more a demonstration of the deification of Mary by Christians than the deification of Muhammad by anyone.

Muslims have tried to use the trinity as an excuse to attack Christians.

This is based upon a verse in the Quran.

That verse is clearly in error.

You are attempting to find specious reasons to justify this error.

You've failed.

Admit it, the Quran contains an error.

Try something a bit more plausible. The Quran was compiled after Muhammad's death by a usurper. He probably made the mistake.

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The Quran made a mistake. Accept it.

How is it that the Quran makes a mistake here?

This verse is not necessarily refuting the common ideology of 'The Trinity'. Secondly, to deify or place one to the state of god-like does not automatically mean you view something (i.e. Mary) as the actual Creator (swt). Perhaps by praying to this person instead of GOD, you are deifying the person and placing him/her equal to the status of a diety. It would appear to me that by taking other than Allah as your dirct helper and directing prayers to them instead of prayer with Allah subhanahu wa ta'al would be a form of the Islamic concept of shirk. This verse seems to directly address this form of deification. If I am mistaken, this is my own mistake and misunderstanding of the Islamic concept and tafsir of this ayah. In this case, I do not see how this verse is any kind of mistake. Is it just me?

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How is it that the Quran makes a mistake here?

This verse is not necessarily refuting the common ideology of 'The Trinity'. Secondly, to deify or place one to the state of god-like does not automatically mean you view something (i.e. Mary) as the actual Creator (swt). Perhaps by praying to this person instead of GOD, you are deifying the person and placing him/her equal to the status of a diety. It would appear to me that by taking other than Allah as your dirct helper and directing prayers to them instead of prayer with Allah subhanahu wa ta'al would be a form of the Islamic concept of shirk. This verse seems to directly address this form of deification. If I am mistaken, this is my own mistake and misunderstanding of the Islamic concept and tafsir of this ayah. In this case, I do not see how this verse is any kind of mistake. Is it just me?

Based on the fact that Muslims claims the Quran is the word of God, and contains zero mistakes, I can see how you would all attempt 10000% to find ANY avenue to travel through in order to get away from a sticky situation such as this, so I do not blame you, or others here for trying. The reality however, is that this verse cannot be denied, and it is as clear as day. You can put any spin on it you wish, sugar coat it, find 28 theories about the Christians at the time, etc... the fact of the matter is that all this would have been irrelevant if it came from God, as He would have known the difference, regardless of what local beliefs were at the time.

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The reality however, is that this verse cannot be denied, and it is as clear as day. You can put any spin on it you wish, sugar coat it, find 28 theories about the Christians at the time, etc... the fact of the matter is that all this would have been irrelevant if it came from God, as He would have known the difference, regardless of what local beliefs were at the time.

Hello Sunshine,

Again, exactly how does this ayah show error?

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How is it that the Quran makes a mistake here?

I really understand you predicament.

It will be extremely difficult for Muslims to accept this error.

I tend to doubt many will, some will attempt to twist different meanings, but most, I suspect, will fall back of the verses that warn that the unbelievers will do anything to discredit your faith.

I, for one, have no intention of discrediting your faith.

It will indeed, be sad if this happens, because it will be a further reason for Muslims to cut themselves off from the rest of the world.

May I suggest you might try to see this as an unfortunate error during the compiling of the Quran?

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I really understand you predicament.

It will be extremely difficult for Muslims to accept this error.

I tend to doubt many will, some will attempt to twist different meanings, but most, I suspect, will fall back of the verses that warn that the unbelievers will do anything to discredit your faith.

I, for one, have no intention of discrediting your faith.

It will indeed, be sad if this happens, because it will be a further reason for Muslims to cut themselves off from the rest of the world.

May I suggest you might try to see this as an unfortunate error during the compiling of the Quran?

Thank you surfinjo for your response. However, all I have seen in this thread is others prescribing meaning or interpretations of this ayah (i.e. it is refrring to The Trinity erroneously; it is talking about christians making Mary GOD (swt)). Taking it as it is, I do not see any error, and the person who originally brought it up has not sufficiently shown how it is in error. Thus, why would I take it to be an error?

You and sunshine seem to attribute to me attempts at justification I have not yet done. Sorry for your personal experiences. However, I am relatively new to this forum. I have just ventured in roughly a couple of days ago (before that it was years ago). With due repect and in peace, I am saying I do not see how this ayah is in error; and you and sunshine have not shown how it is an error.

Instead of false statements of how "you don't blame me" or "how it must be difficult to accept", please show me (and others) how it is an error.

Respectfully,

your fellow shiachat member

P.S. When I say I am new to this forum, I mean this Islamic/Christianity Dialogue forum, and not ShaiChat as a whole.

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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Based on the fact that Muslims claims the Quran is the word of God, and contains zero mistakes, I can see how you would all attempt 10000% to find ANY avenue to travel through in order to get away from a sticky situation such as this, so I do not blame you, or others here for trying. The reality however, is that this verse cannot be denied, and it is as clear as day. You can put any spin on it you wish, sugar coat it, find 28 theories about the Christians at the time, etc... the fact of the matter is that all this would have been irrelevant if it came from God, as He would have known the difference, regardless of what local beliefs were at the time.

(salam) and Peace,

Even if not a single Christian has every worshipped Mary (a.s.) (and I can prove to you that there were Christians at the time who did) as "God" (astafirAllah), how does the fact that the Holy Quran tells people NOT to do something (or that a person did NOT say something) prove it wrong? Christians must, in fact, agree with us that NEITHER Mary (a.s.) nor Prophet Jesus (a.s.) every told people "I am God" or "Worship me". So why turn an agreement (because it seems most Christians here AGREE with us on what the Quran ACTUALLY SAYS) in to an argument. Here is the verse again,

(bismillah)

" “And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.”

Holy Qur’an 5:116

So read this again, where does it say that "Mary is worshiped as the third person in "The Trinity"".

The word commonly understood as "Trinity" today is mentioned twice in the Holy Quran (4:171 and 5:73), and in neither verse does it mention Mary as the third person in a Trinity.

P.S.- This ayat is quoting a statement to be made IN THE FUTURE, so even if you can prove for certain that not a single Christian has ever worshipped Mary, you would also have to prove that UNTIL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT this will never happen (which you, of course, cannot prove).

Edited by Ali Zaki
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Then your researches are wrong.

There is no such worship and never has been.

Roman Catholics pray to Saints to ask them to intertceed with God.

This is questionable but, given the dogma surrounding it, hardly the same thing since these saints are not assumed to have any powers of authority other than being in the presence of God

am sorry to intrude at this point after my absence from this thread.first am not shocked by the rude comments of sunshine after i read what he posted on bismika allahuma forum

i would like to say that mary is indeed deitified whether directly or indirectly.i ahve a cathoilic friend who i visit,when they perform their prayers with a rosary,they call on mary for help.she is called many different names among them is "mother of god"! in other words whether ignorantly or deliberately,she is called a "goddess"!

also i think the explanation br.ali zaki gave in his above post regarding the interpretation of the verse and explaning its importance as a prophecy is very correct.

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Then please do.

Marianism: Unbiblical devotion to Mary.Superstitious reverence

which frequently elevates her to the status of a demi-god, and even

to being the fourth member of the Trinity. (NOT BY MUSLIMS, BY CHRISTIANS)

( SAME:Mariolatry.SIMILAR:Theotokos.RELATED:Romanism,

Immaculate Conception, Quadernity, Messianic-Merianic.

CONTRAST:Mariology. )

SOURCE: http://www.datarat.net/DR/Lex-M.html#Marianism

" After the middle of the fourth century it overstepped the wholesome Biblical limit, and transformed the mother of the Lord"757 into a mother of God, the humble handmaid of the Lord"758 into a queen of heaven, the "highly favored"759 into a dispenser of favors, the "blessed among women"760 into an intercessor above all women, nay, we may almost say, the redeemed daughter of fallen Adam, who is nowhere in Holy Scripture excepted from the universal sinfulness, into a sinlessly holy co-redeemer. At first she was acquitted only of actual sin, afterward even of original; though the doctrine of the immaculate conception of the Virgin was long contested, and was not established as an article of faith in the Roman church till 1854. Thus the veneration of Mary gradually degenerated into the worship of Mary; and this took so deep hold upon the popular religious life in the Middle Age, that, in spite of all scholastic distinctions between latria, and dulia, and hyrerdulia, Mariolatry practically prevailed over the worship of Christ. Hence in the innumerable Madonnas of Catholic art the human mother is the principal figure, and the divine child accessory. The Romish devotions scarcely utter a Pater Noster without an Ave Maria, and turn even more frequently and naturally to the compassionate, tender-hearted mother for her intercessions, than to the eternal Son of God, thinking that in this indirect way the desired gift is more sure to be obtained. To this day the worship of Mary is one of the principal points of separation between the Graeco-Roman Catholicism and Evangelical Protestantism. It is one of the strongest expressions of the fundamental Romish error of unduly exalting the human factors or instruments of redemption, and obstructing, or rendering needless, the immediate access of believers to Christ, by thrusting in subordinate mediators. "

SOURCE: http://www.bible.ca/history/philip-schaff/3_ch07.htm

CITATIONS:

757 Â JH mhvthr tou' kurivou, Luke i. 43.

758 Â JH douvlh kurivou, Luke i. 38.

759 Â Kecaritwmevnh(pass. part.), Luke i. 28.

760 Â Eujloghmevnh ejn gunaixivn, Luke i. 28.

SEE ALSO, http://www.acts1711.com/mariolatry.htm

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Ali Zaki

I tried to be positive with the links you gave. I have read through the references before looking at the sites in general.

re datarat.net Oh dear. I'm sorry to have to say this is a Free Presbyterian view of theology.

While it isn't my place to undermine their faith it has to be said, and tends to be by almost all observers, that their principal raison d'etre is to contradict the Roman Catholic Church at every opportunity.

They also dislike most of the Christian denominations, finding comparisons with the Roman Catholics. They dismiss anything that isn't obvious to them.

The Presbyterians were founded by John Knox based upon Calvinism. An interesting fellow whose fiery speeches caused a number of riots and who eventually was instrumental in the exile and eventual murder of the then Queen of Scotland, Mary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Knox

The term marionism is often used by these people as an insult.

Their claim that this is some sort of heretical cult is founded upon their fanatical animosity of Roman Catholic dogma. They tend to refer to the Pope as the anti-Christ.

Incidentally, most of these people are masons. Ian Paisley, who has caused almost 40 years of conflict, killing and turmoil in Ireland is a Free Presbyterian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_presbyterian

Your second link, sadly, is also a little suspect.

I really don't want to go into any great detail but if you read this page: http://www.bible.ca/islam/welcome.htm

you will discover this statement:

My fervent prayer is for the coalition forces in Iraq and the innocent Iraqi men, women and children who are victims of Saddam Hussein. Although you are fed lies by the Muslim community and media that we, Americans are after the oil of Iraq, I ask that you remember us in kindness and yes, even praise, when we set Iraq in order, free the people, set up a government of their choosing, repair their oil fields, then withdraw (unoccupy) and give the country back to the people of Iraq. The American people are good people who base their lives upon Jesus Christ. (Brother Andrew)

Again, I have no wish, nor any right for that matter, to undermine the faith of others, but for a supposedly Christian denomination to support the murder of even one human is contrary to the very clear teachings of Jesus.

You may also wish to read this: http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

Islam is repackaged polytheism.

Islam is paganism in monotheistic wrapping paper.

Islam is veiled neo-polytheism.

Clearly, these people are capable of altering facts to fit the realities they wish existed.

I am sorry to say that I can find no justification for your assertion that Christians have ever viewed Mary as a goddess or part of the trinity.

I appreciate your efforts and I appreciate how anxious you, as a Muslim are to demonstrate this point.

I know that, as a Muslim, you are forbidden from disagreeing with your scholars or questioning the veracity of the Quran.

I would really like to continue this discussion but I will fully understand if you wish to avoid this and the inevitable conclusions that will result.

To this end, I will fully understand if you wish to avoid further contributions.

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I would really like to continue this discussion but I will fully understand if you wish to avoid this and the inevitable conclusions that will result.

To this end, I will fully understand if you wish to avoid further contributions.

Hello

O.K., here are some more (if you think those are biased)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tota_pulchra_es

" The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the cult of the Virgin as Mother of God; the dissemination of images of the Virgin and Child, which came to embody church doctrine, soon followed."

SOURCE: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/virg/hd_virg.htm

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I've looked through each of these.

Not one suggests that Mary is a goddess or part of the Trinity.

The veneration of Mary may well be abhorrent to you and many others, but the verse in the Quran specifically refers to those who see Mary as a goddess.

The verse in the Quran is in error.

Quran 5.116

If you wish to continue trying to overload the point with the same information, hoping that you can somehow demonstrate something, that is your choice.

But you have provided no credible reference that indicates that any Christians have ever viewed Mary as a goddess or a member of the trinity.

I suggest you either back off.

All you have done so far is demonstrate that the verse in the Quran is inaccurate which it is.

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