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way2go

Christians Targeted by Muslims

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^ This product is copyright of the joint efforts of the New York Times and Washington Post. Any and all forms of plagiarism are allowed and encouraged just as long as they are used in an effective and objective manner, to further the agendas that the New York Times and Washington Post advocate.

Propoganda anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not publish the WHOLE article, where it admits they - and everyone else - have absolutely no idea how many iraquis have been killed. IIRC, the number is a pure speculation from one person, and the mass media picked up on it.

What i would be interested to know is how many innocent civilians have been killed by the US vs. innocent civilians killed by "insurgents" and al qaeda. THAT would be a much more interesting point.

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Guest Shia by nature

(bismillah) (salam)

Where do Christians riot and kill Muslims out of love and respect for Jesus and the dignity of Christianity?

We saw this during the Crusades. Also in Indonesia we had Christians slaughtering Muslims. We saw it in Lebanon.

Both parts are equally guilty.

Ma Salaam

Sayyid Ali Naqvi

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(bismillah)  (salam)

We saw this during the Crusades. Also in Indonesia we had Christians slaughtering Muslims. We saw it in Lebanon.

Both parts are equally guilty.

Ma Salaam

Sayyid Ali Naqvi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(salam) Brother,

Just wanted to add you forgot about the Serbian slaughter of Bosnian Muslims in the mid 1990's, the largest and most brutal slaughter of Muslims by Christians this century.

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(bismillah)

Allahumma Salli Ala Mohammad Wa Aali Mohammad

"Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and good exhortation, and reason with them in the best way. Lo! your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who are rightly guided." (The Holy Qur'an, 16:125)

(salam)

mohammed's son, it is quite strange how your “logic” and way of thought reminds me of some of the more extreme Zionists who post on this forum. There is a striking similarity between the way you think and the way they reason.

I shall entertain myself with this petty nonsense, simply because my physics work is not appealing to me at this moment. Read and learn the ways of decency, morality, civility, and Islam.

What i would be interested to know is how many innocent civilians have been killed by the US vs. innocent civilians killed by "insurgents" and al qaeda. THAT would be a much more interesting point.

^A classic Zionist mentality. Comparing two evils or two crimes, and asserting that one is somehow “better” than the other or more “innocent” than the other. When that is not possible, they move on to justifying the means of one over the other, and go on to show their true colors of self-glorification and brazen arrogance. Truly disgusting.

The fact that you would be interested is differentiating between two killers of innocents tells a lot about you. From the Islamic perspective, wrong is wrong no matter who the perpetrator is and no matter what their motives are. There is no differentiation between one advocate of the devil and another, just as there is no differentiation between one killer of innocents and another.

The Holy Qur’an affirms that he who kills even ONE single innocent, it is as if he killed off all the believers of the world. It is a greater sin in Islam. But I don’t think what the Holy Qur’an says has any bearing on your views or perceptions, and your posts are quite reminiscent of this. A quick review of your posts confirms this. Those who want to make excuses for one faction above another or one killer above another are just as guilty as those who are perpetrating these crimes because they are effectively justifying the killing of innocent people.

The WMD’s and phosphorous bombs that the US forces have used is massacring thousands upon thousands of Iraqi’s (like the massacre of Fallujah for example) are no different than the suicide bombers that have targeted Muslims even as they pray in their mosques. As a Muslims and human being, I condemn the killing of all innocents, and initiated aggression of all kinds, as this is against the intrinsic beliefs of Islam as well as human nature.

As for these so called Wahhabi “Mulsims” who engage in killing innocents on a regular basis, and act “in the name of Islam” and “jihad”, they do not know the first thing about either Islam or jihad.

In Islam, jihad is a strictly defined concept, and the ignorance and agendas of western propaganda has gone a long way in distorting that concept. Jihad itself, when it can be initiated according to the Islam, and its implications are all topics of utmost importance and significance, and you would do well to understand them correctly.

Our Holy Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) left us as Muslims with two weighty things; they are our ultimate and inseparable guides, and they govern all aspects of our lives as submitters to the Absolute Almighty. They are the Holy Qur’an and the Ahlul Bait (the thaqalain). Our infallible and divinely inspired guides have manifested and exemplified the epitome of Islam’s manifestation on this world.

The jurists (maraje’) function in our society (as Muslims) serves as a general representation of Islam and its teachings, and their views and studies are based upon the thaqalayn that the Holy Prophet left us with. With that said, it is sufficient to point out the jurists are indeed fallible, and thier interpretations do not necessarily have to agree, so naturally there is no ‘unified’ or agreed upon definition of jihad, not only within the Shia realm, but among the Sunnis as well.

With that in mind, I am going to provide a generally accepted definition of jihad-al-asghar (or lesser jihad), without going too deep into the various implications and details of the matter.

In Islam, killing other persons is generally limited to those who initiate combat with us or attack us violently (except as a means of punishment for crimes in limited cases of course). Thus, in Islam, fighting is never initiated, and is generally viewed as a means of self-defense against those who attack us. This has several implications. For example, if one of our holy sites was attacked, such as the Holy Kaaba or the Shrine of one of our Holy Imams (as) retaliation is a duty, so long as it falls under the banner of defence, and not initiated aggression. That is the case of our first Qiblah, the Aqsa Ash-Shareef in Palestine. In other words, an attack on our holy shrines and sites can be viewed as an attack against us directly, and it is a duty upon us as Muslims to defend our muqadasat (or Holy things).

Therefore, according to Islamic Law (as taught by the Holy Prophet and Ahlul-Bait), the concept of aggressive-jihad, where an initiating and offensive attack is launched against an enemy is banned unless that enemy was the one who initiated the conflict. This was fully practiced and manifested by the Holy Prophet and Imams on the battle field, but after the Prophet’s time, many of the battle waged by the self-appointed Khalifs after him violated this concept explicitly, and thus should not be taken as an example.

Thus, defensive-jihad, which is not ascribed strictly to a doctrine, but is inherently a basic human right in itself, is not only a duty upon all Muslims, but is the legitimate right of every human being. Furthermore, Islam clearly and explicitly forbids the killing of innocent beings, Muslim or otherwise:

"..If any one slew a person, unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land, it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people" (The Holy Qur'an, 5:32)

Clearly the killing of innocent human beings is forbidden under all circumstances, and there can be no excuse for this. From this, we can understand that when engaging in jihad in retaliation to aggression imposed upon us, only specific individuals are to be targeted and fought. This leaves no room for the commonly tolerated and advocated means of warfare that cause “collateral damage” or other methods (like WMD’s) that cause the death of innocent people indiscriminately. This is extremely important, and is largely ignored by many factions.

Imam Ali’s (as) behavior on the battlefield is the ultimate example. In the battle of Uhod, Talha ibn Abi Talha was the standard-bearer of the Quraish army. Imam Ali (as) faced him and in a hand to hand encounter, dealt him such a severe blow that he reeled and fell down. Imam Ali left him like that and walked away from him, and when he was asked why he did not finish him off (as Talha ibn Abi Talha was a grave enemy of Imam Ali (as), the Prophet (pbuh), and Islam), Imam Ali (as) replied: "Enemy or no enemy, he can't defend himself now, and I cannot strike a man who is not in a position to defend himself. If he survives he is welcome to live as long as his life lasts."

Another example is in the Battle of Jamal, in the thick of the encounter his servant Qambar brought some cool drink saying, "My master! The sun is very hot and you have been constantly fighting, have a glass of this cold drink to refresh yourself". Imam Ali (as) looked around himself and replied: "Shall I refresh myself when hundreds of people around me are lying wounded and dying of thirst and wounds? Instead of brining soft drink for me take a few men with you and give each of these wounded persons a soft drink". Qambar replied: "My master! They are all our enemies!" He said: "They may be, but their are human beings, go and attend to them."

There are countless more examples, but I think my point is clear. In addition, this general doctrine of caring for the lives of the innocent and targeting only those who attack us directly, applies to many of today’s weapons. Many modern weapons of mass destruction, biological, and chemical weapons are explicitly forbidden where there is a chance of innocent non-combatants being injured. Furthermore, the “suicide bombings” (or sacrificial operations depending on your stance) must never be carried out against non-combatants, or innocent unarmed people who have not initiated aggression against you. I cannot stress this issue enough.

mohammed's son, I advise you to take a good look at the nature of your post in this thread, and your other ones as well, and reevaluate what you believe in and what you advocate. For your sake, not mine.

Assalamu Alaikum.

Edited by Learned

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Guest Burqa N Purdah

Hey, Guess what? Muslims kill Muslims in Nigeria too!

Muslims are wiping out everybody these days.

Edited by Burqa N Purdah

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Guest Shia by nature

(bismillah) (salam)

Hey, Guess what? Muslims kill Muslims in Nigeria too!

Muslims are wiping out everybody these days.

Exactly! Wahabis kill Shias everyday in pakistan and now Iraq.

Ma Salaam

Sayyid Ali Naqvi

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(bismillah)  (salam)

We saw this during the Crusades. Also in Indonesia we had Christians slaughtering Muslims. We saw it in Lebanon.

Both parts are equally guilty.

Ma Salaam

Sayyid Ali Naqvi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Crusades? Will you next go back and start offering example of muslim dinosaurs killing christian dinosaurs?

And go back and check your history, which group began the violence in lebanon and kosovo? Was it christians, or muslims? Dont give me platitudes like "christians killed muslims." I want context, most importantly, WHY were christians killing muslims - was it out of revenge? THAT is the key to this issue.

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Tim Judah, author of The Serbs History, Myth & the Destruction of Yugoslavia examines the roots of conflict.

For generations, Kosovo has been a territory disputed between Serbs and Albanians.

Kosovo: Special Report

And just as Serbs and Albanians fight for it today, their respective historians have long quarrelled over its "true" history.

Albanians claim that they are its original inhabitants, being the descendants of the ancient Illyrians.

The Serbs say that Kosovo lay at the heart of its medieval kingdoms and that during the middle ages few, if any, Albanians lived amongst them.

The Serbs buttress their claim by pointing to their ancient monasteries and churches which dot the landscape.

[ image: ]

A key date in Kosovo's history is the June 28, 1389.

According to classical Serbian history, the Serbian Prince Lazar fought the invading Ottoman Turks at Kosovo Polje (The Field of Blackbirds) - and lost.

Although his death was celebrated as glorious sacrifice, the defeat opened the gates to a Turkish advance which would only be checked some 300 years later at the gates of Vienna.

Modern historians believe that the Battle of Kosovo was actually a draw, although the Serbs were fatally weakened.

It is also now generally accepted that Albanian and Bosnian contingents fought alongside the Serbs and that other Serbian contingents fought for the Turks.

However, until today, the original story has exercised a powerful grip on the Serbian imagination and the call to "avenge Kosovo" was an emotional one during the 19th century reawakening of Serbian nationalism.

Serbia under Turkish rule

By 1459, all of Serbia, including Kosovo, had fallen under Turkish rule.

Slowly but surely, the population balance began to change as the then-majority Serbs migrated northwards to Bosnia, the Austrian and Hungarian lands.

[ image: ]

Following a failed uprising in 1689, the numbers of Serbs emigrating began to escalate.

They were replaced by mostly Muslim Albanians who came to Kosovo's fertile lands from the hostile mountains of Albania proper.

From 1878, Serbia was a fully independent state again but Kosovo still lay under Ottoman rule.

This year was also important for Albanians as it saw the foundation of the League of Prizren, which marks the birth of modern Albanian nationalism, not just in Kosovo but for all Albanians.

By 1912, Serbia and the other independent Balkan states joined together to drive the Turks out of their remaining possessions in Europe.

For Kosovo's Serbs, the arrival of the Serbian Army was a liberation.

For Albanians, by now the majority population, it was nothing short of an occupation, coupled with massacres and expulsions.

During the First World War, the Serbian authorities were themselves driven out and, in 1915, Albanians took their revenge for 1912 by exacting reprisals on retreating Serbian troops.

The Serbian revenge for this came in 1918 when the army of what was now Yugoslavia returned.

Serb attempt to settle

Throughout the inter-war years, the Serbs tried to reverse the population imbalance in Kosovo by sending settlers to the area.

The authorities were, however, continually plagued by Albanian uprisings and unrest.

[ image: Trouble has festered for generations]

Trouble has festered for generations

In 1941, most of Kosovo became part of an Italian-controlled Greater Albania.

Other parts were occupied by the Germans and Bulgarians. Tens of thousands of Serbs, especially settlers, were driven out.

Tito's Yugoslav Partisans found it hard to recruit Albanian soldiers, but in the end they had some success when they appeared to promise Kosovo Albanians the right to unite with Albania after the war.

When, in 1945, it became clear that this promise was not to be kept, theYugoslav authorities were again faced with Albanian uprisings.

Until the1960s the province was kept on a tight leash, but in 1974 it was granted full autonomy, which gave it almost the same rights as Yugoslavia's six republics.

From this time on, Serbs complained of harassment by Albanians who were also demanding the status of a full republic for the province.

Serbs were also worried because, thanks to Serb emigration and a high Albanian birth rate, the proportion of Serbs in the province had now fallen to a mere one for every nine Albanians.

Manipulating these grievances, Slobodan Milosevic, then the head of the Serbian Communist Party, rose to supreme power.

[ image: Serbia's hold on the province is threatened]

Serbia's hold on the province is threatened

In 1989 he stripped Kosovo of its autonomy.

However, his actions precipitated a crisis across the rest of former Yugoslavia which was to end in its bloody collapse.

Under the leadership of Ibrahim Rugova, Kosovo Albanians opted for peaceful resistance to Serbian rule under Mr Milosevic, declaring their independence and running a parallel state.

However, over the last two years Mr Rugova has come under increasing attack from radicals who claim that his pacifism is tantamount to passivity.

The events of the last year, and the emergence of the Kosovo Liberation Army, show that there are enough Albanians who are prepared to take up arms against Serbia to seriously threaten its hold on the province.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/...sovo/110492.stm

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