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In the Name of God بسم الله

Homosexuals lynched in Iran

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Guest Shia by nature

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Lets be reasonable will the adulterer actually openly confess his actions? Such a chronic sinner is as likely to bend over backwards as opposed to open confession for a crime that merits death. As such witnesses in such a case would be almost unquestionably needed they are sinners lol not Pious Practicing Muslims.

The reason why it seems the Rezza and others have been so shocked is because its a hard pill for a westerner to swallow. So used to decadence and sexual anarchy the idea of a punishment for illegal sex in public seems repugnant to them. The Hadiths you quoted referred to

A. Penetration

B. Stoning the Penalty for adultery as witnessed by 4 reliable witnesses.

The others took them as "He has gelled hair and a pink shirt grab the stones boys" that is not the case. They need to

A. Confess and I believe if they confess and repent that they will be forgiven as the only ones who are not forgiven are the Partnerists.

B. Be caught 4 witnesses who see the explicit Penetration.

This applies not only to Homosexual adultery but Heterosexual adultery its not singling out of preferring one above the other as some must of had the impression.

There are various good reasons as why adultery is met with a fist full of steel especially in our present times.

A few of the diseases open and or frequent adultery will bring are.

* AIDS: There is no cure for it. It is contracted and spread through unlawful sexual intercourse.

* GONORRHEA: which causes inflammation of the testicles, blockage of the urethra, inflammation of the joints and sterility.

* SYPHILIS: This is a type of venereal disease commonly known among the Arabs as 'the English Disease' since its origin lies in European societies where free intermingling of the sexes and immorality is rife. It results in insanity, paralysis, blindness, and other nerve disorders. Also leads to blood vessel damage and death.

* GENITAL ULCERS: which causes inflammation of the lymphatic glands. It also gives rise to chronic festering of tumours, inflammation of the urethra, severe pain in the joints and swelling of the limbs.

* HEPATITIS B: Its symptoms include fever, fatigue, nausea and jaundice. It results in chronic hepatitis or liver cancer.

Those are just a few of the most common types their are various other diseases that are common in Western and Secularist Nations that are not present in Iran nor will they be if people respect the Law.

Wasalam

Edited by Servidor
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I have a question.  Can any normal citizen of Iran leave Iran if they wish to?  For instance, here in America homosexuality is accepted and actually thrives in some locations.  If a homosexual in Iran wanted to leave and come to America to live with those who would tolerate their sexual preference, could they?

I am willing to bet they can't.  So, if they can't then someone who is a homosexual in Iran is trapped in a society that has no tolerance for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they should make a bee line to the Swiss Embassy which represents US interests in Iran and seek asylum in the US on grounds of being gay. Gay Asylum in the USA. :wub:

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(bismillah)

(salam)

4 Witnesses are prescribed in the Holy Quran "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-" (Holy Quran, 24:4)

"Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!" (Holy Quran, 24:13)

Wasalam

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Well when did God die and leave Iran in charge. I don't think God intended Iran to act in its stead.

Peace

Satyaban

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Allah has given the authority for Islamic governments to carry out capital punishments. Those living under an Islamic government have to follow Islamic laws.

Wasalam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Muwahida as much as I admire your staunch support of the Shar'iah we must keep in mind that they are not Muslims as such some logical reasoning is in order.

I have pointed out various times now how hard it is even for a vehement adulter and or adultress to be convicted to death in Islam. I also pointed out why when they are so arrogant that they get caught they are dealt with in such a strong and authorative manner.

Wasalam

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It's stuff like that that keeps me Sunni.  I can't believe in the infallibility of these imams.  I believe in the infallibility of the Prophets only; much some of what the imams say seems to be rooted in Arab culture and prejudices (as opposed to true revelation, which would not be constrained in such a manner), such as that  statement about homosexuals deserving to be stoned twice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yet the Sahabah can never be wrong.

Wasalam.

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(salam)

Iran is an Islamic Republic, it follows Islamic law. Anyone who disobeys the laws of their government suffers the consequences, what ever country they are in.  These laws aren't being enforced on Western citizens, they are enforced on Iranian citizens living under the rules of Islamic law. Different countries have different rules, and everyone has different opinions. Who has given you the authority to say what is right and what is wrong?

Mind you there are also many Christians who say stuff like homosexuals should not exist.

Wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for myself I am a part of humanity and this [Edited Out] in Iran is inhumane, barbaric and a disgrace to claim God as the reason for their barbaric laws.

It kind of reminds me of Romes barbarism in the Coliseum.

Peace

Satyaban

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Muwahida as much as I admire your staunch support of the Shar'iah we must keep in mind that they are not Muslims as such some logical reasoning is in order.

I have pointed out various times now how hard it is even for a vehement adulter and or adultress to be convicted to death in Islam. I also pointed out why when they are so arrogant that they get caught they are dealt with in such a strong and authorative manner.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But the Islamic government was chosen by it's own people. People wanted Islamic law to govern their country.

Wasalam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Here is probably the best organization advocates that Homosexuality is wrong and can be cured through phsycology they also shoot down popular myths put forward by Secularists they are Christians and do an excellent job.

Exodus International

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bro, Exodus International is a far-right Christian organization whose views have been denounced as unscientific by all the country's leading psychologists/psychoanalysts. They don't employ any real scientific research on the nature of homosexuality- and there has been a good deal- they simply make the claim that God would not give a person such an unnatural orientation and that therefore it "must" be cureable. They claim the can make gay men attracted to women, but all they have so far been able to prove is that they can prevent them from engaging in homosexual sex and push them to get married- not that they can actually change the person's preference for the same sex.

There ARE scientific tests that can be performed which can ascertain whether a subject is attracted to men or women. Exodus has never managed to get members who were previously verifiably homosexual to show heterosexual orientation on such tests after their "treatment". Not even once have they been able to demonstrate such a change of orientation through scientific means. I.e., they claim that they can change a person from gay to straight, but all they've been able to actually do is use religious guilt to prevent them from having gay sex and push them to have (generally mutually unsatisfactory, over the long term) relationships with women.

Also, Exodus's founder- after saying he had been cured of homosexuality- left the organization and ran off with a male lover, saying that the organization was based on a combination of quackery and wishful thinking by gay members who are desperate to become straight.

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As for myself I am a part of humanity and this [Edited Out] in Iran is inhumane, barbaric and a disgrace to claim God as the reason for their barbaric laws.

It kind of reminds me of Romes barbarism in the Coliseum.

Peace

Satyaban

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Islamic government follows Islamic law. In Islam the consequence for many crimes is capital punishment. The Iranian people voted for a government run by Shariah.

As I pointed earlier who are you to say this is barbaric and inhumane? I can say the same thing about the punishment for crimes in Western countries. People have been given life imprisonment for crimes they have committed. This is psychologically damaging to the person and there have been many cases where prsioners have been abused. How is that humane?!

Wasalam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

lol I am digging this dialogue instead of facts and morals you argue semantics and barbs. Its pretty obvious as too why two people committing adultery publically enough so that 4 people can see the penetration deserve Capital Punishment. The wetserners I live with here in Public Housing actually say worse  :Hijabi: you dont wanna know.

Public fornication to such a disgusting extent will.

A. Offend people.

B. Spread Numerous STDs.

C. Phycologically effect any children witnesses God Forbid.

D. Influence others to commit such actions at which point all of the above is repeated just use logical analysis and you realise soon the world would be an STD infested hole.

:D but okay think what you will and I recommend you send all of your friends here I highly doubt any of them would actually restrain their intellectual capacity to the veracity that you have thus demonstrated in order to belittle us Muslims  :!!!:

Wasalam  ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you say gays should be hung only when four "peeping toms" look in their window. Is it customary for Iran to hang the mentally ill?, if so I don't understand why Shorty is still above ground.

BTW is Iran running out of stones or something.

Peace

Satyaban

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Yet the Sahabah can never be wrong. 

Wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't believe in their infallibility either, and I am unusually critical of most hadiths for that reason when it comes to employing them for matters of Islamic law. When we are talking of FALLIBLE men, as the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) clearly were, it is simply not infeasible that their own biases would colour their view of the faith and even to a certain extent their understanding of the words and actions of Muhammad (pbuh) that they are transmitting.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Hey come on now lets calm it down a little bit and get back on topic.

These were "Lynchings" thats not an excecution carried out after a conviction. This is "Mob Mentality" not Islamic Law.

Wasalam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the original poster called it lynching. I am pretty sure that these people were given a conviction before the punishment, otherwise you are right, this is not Islamic law.

Wasalam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

With Exodus International. It is not my job nor my wish to defend them lol whatever you say. However I quote numerous Phycologists and Doctors before who admitt even though they advocate Homosexuality that you are simply not born that way and through proper treatment it is possible to live a Heterosexual and Happy life.

There are Thousands of former Homosexuals who are now Muslims that would profess this fact happily.

And with the killing the Mentally Ill no you do not unless they put the illness into practice. A skitzophrenic who has voices that say kill people are not be killed because of the illness however when they give in and kill some random people I do believe that Capital Punishment is in order for they are at the point beyond cure all that is left is a lifetime of pain and insanity.

Any Homosexuals in Iran who as opposed to seeking help have sex where 4 people may see it deserve the same penalty as a sane heterosexual man or woman this is not bias its reality in order to keep a clean just and overall safe society. Check the Stastics Africa is plagued with AIDs however they admitt the Muslim areas have a much smaller predicemant than that of the Christian and Voodoo areas.

Wasalam

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Allah has given the authority for Islamic governments to carry out capital punishments. Those living under an Islamic government have to follow Islamic laws.

Wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that is a load of [Edited Out]. Because if God did that it was a huge mistake and God does not make mistakes.

Peace

Satyaban

Edited by satyaban
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Yes exactly Trekker, he doesn't have to agree with the Muslim definition of God. But NOBODY defines God, it is God who defines Himself. I am a Muslim and I do not believe that capital punishment is a mistake, I believe this is what God has allowed. I am not imposing my views on satyaban but he insists that my views are inhumane. Different people have different opinions.

And satyaban you stated that the Nazis voted in their leader aswell. Yes, they did vote them in but many problems occurred in their rule. Most Iranians I know and their relatives and friends do not seem to hate the Iranian government. I know that there are people in Iran who do not like their government, but you have that everywhere. Iran is not as bad as the media portrays it to be.

Wasalam.

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No, I don't believe in their infallibility either, and I am unusually critical of most hadiths for that reason when it comes to employing them for matters of Islamic law.  When we are talking of FALLIBLE men, as the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) clearly were, it is simply not infeasible that their own biases would colour their view of the faith and even to a certain extent their understanding of the words and actions of Muhammad (pbuh) that they are transmitting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry I am taking this off-topic but Trekker there are many reliable ahadith that show Imam Ali (as) is one who is chosen by Allah (s.w.t). I don't really want to discuss it here in this thread but we can discuss it in another thread.

Sorry everyone if I am sounding harsh, but I think I am getting a little emotional..lol. :)

Wasalam.

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I am a muslim and i think that capital punishment should only be practised by God in the form of his angels in the afterlife, not this one. So the iranian capital punishment is a buncha bs and unislamic.

Those kids were only delinquents, they were not hardcore professionals, yo understand this?

Will you kill your son if you find him performing such an act for the first time? Would you even throw him out of the home?

:sick:

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Muwahida

This may come as a shock to you but we all worship the same God and I certainly could not attempt to define what is beyond my conception. There have been many people through history who have said they were acting for God, carrying out God's mission blah blah blah.and it has always turned out bad.

I will not pretend to know God or understand God who is far beyond human conception. I do not have the temerity to infer upon a being that is without time and space any human qualities or attributes. God being the creator, the absolute could play favorites with language, religions or races again is the application of human properties.

The bottom line is all we have is belief and faith. My faith tells me that every faith is equal and God caters to none of they. I think the world would be a much better place if every faith practiced this and forget this nonsense that only one can be right and that there is only one right path. Then to kill people over it is supreme disrespect for creation. No one has empirical confirming their faith so as I said before all we have is belief. I once heard a Christian on TV say "when you know you know you know" like the more "you knows" you say the more it means something as fact. By the same token when someone says they are doing God's will they are implying they know what God's will is and when one faith says God told us to blah blah blah and I ask for proof they say its in the book. I then ask to prove the book and they say it is God's word so I ask prove it and they say it is in the book. If I ask again to prove the book they say it is the word of God and if ask them to prove it they say its in the book. So they have no proof at all but faith and that is not enough authority to say it is God's law and kill someone.

Peace

Satyaban

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