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In the Name of God بسم الله

Homosexuals lynched in Iran

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Thankyou for a kind reply.

1st fact proves my point lol that Capital Punishment is only in the rarest cases enforced in regards to adultery because nobody should be that sick that they would honestly do it so 4 people may see the Penetration.

Second my point was that if people see the action happening publically soon they will assume that its an okay action as such soon more people would imitate the action and of course spread the disease.

For the sake of brevity I will just say in the case of heterosexual adultery AIDs and various STDs are passed on from mother to child. I would get into it more but I am so tired lol perhaps tomorrow I will open an unlittered thread and be explicit in regards to the fields of science and dramatic statstics needed in order to get my point across.

Third anybody who allows a child to see an excecution is a fool and should have the child taken away. You now my friend are not giving us Muslims the credit we deserve.

Fourth peer pressure etc are commonly known realities. Monkey see monkey do.

I am tired but I am pretty sure and according to my last work I am a prodigy so I am pretty sure I have been using my brain. :angel:

With 3 Witnesses I am devoid of a Masters degree on Fiqh I have no authorisation to answer that Insha'Allah (God Willing) I will ask a Marja.

Thanks again Nighty Night :Hijabi:

Wasalam (Peace)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy); and Allah has increased their disease: and grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves). (The Holy Qur'an 2:10)

There are times that Islam and some Muslims absolutely disgust me.
The more I learn about you and your religion, the more I realise that Muslims will never be respected in tolerant, Western, democracies.

For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms that grow blind. (The Holy Qur'an 22:46)

An excellent example of what ignorance and intolerance produces in those with lack of faith, blind vision, and bleak hearts. This is the product of Western societies and Western perceptions, to the extent that the scriptures of the Abrahamic religions are changed and corrupted with their efforts of “modernization”, to “better suit the needs of the modern world.” Their words are either disgaruded or changed, the infallible laws of God forgotten, and the teachings of the Prophets rejected, simply because they do not fit the craze and obsessions of the Western world.

A Western world where the “rights” of the homosexual, the absolute low that humanity can reach, are more readily allowed to be an integral part of society and culture, where they are exposed to old and young, to spread their satanic and devilish perception of their “self-identity”. Where the homosexual, is not only recognized, but defended and embraced by a society whose norms and status quo further strays from decency and civility with each passing moment.

A backwards society where prostitution and gambling are more readily legalized, than the banning of abortion, and the killing of the young soul inside the mother’s womb.

A backwards society where the sacred and private act of love between a man and his wife becomes a fiasco to be viewed on television screens and computer monitors for a vast majority if their youth, or where it is bought for a certain amount of money. And in extreme cases, where it is forced upon another.

A backwards society where men and women freely convene and go about half naked, as a expression of their “identity” and self-comfort. And in some cases, the need for clothing is disregarded all together.

A regressive society where sexuality is embraced and publicized, and is the focues of their daily lives. A regressive society where drugs and alcohol are not only commonalities, but essential and integral aspects of their lives.

A society that views its “values” that it preaches so openly and covets so dearly as a law that should be forced upon the world in the name of “freedom” which they have tarnished, and “democracy” which they have marked. A society that thinks itself as a model for the world, and a police force of the world, as if some Godly covenant has designated it so.

Indeed, in their hearts is a disease, a sickness, and Allah SWT has increased that sickness. There are times where such a society absolutely disgusts me, and the more I learn about them and their status quo, the more I realize that their society is devoid or any self-respect, honor, dignity, civility, tolerance, or consideration, but rather it is a society of ignorance and intolerance that regresses and reverts away from these very things on a daily basis.

Absolutely disgusting.

Edited by Learned
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(bismillah)

(salam)

Thankyou for a kind reply.

1st fact proves my point lol that Capital Punishment is only in the rarest cases enforced in regards to adultery because nobody should be that sick that they would honestly do it so 4 people may see the Penetration.

(salam)

There is no need for four witnesses to have witnessed "the penetration", that is ridiculous. And as I have said before, it is enough that the person confesses. This is a fact. And not only that, but many more things can be used as evidence, but that is up to the judge.

Third anybody who allows a child to see an excecution is a fool and should have the child taken away. You now my friend are not giving us Muslims the credit we deserve.

Well, I have a son, and it is not for me to decide what should and should not be done. Islamically a girl may be punished from the age of nine, and a boy from the age of fifteen. In the Netherlands you can become a soldier from the age of sixteen, and many countries have even younger soldiers. Obviously these people think that a 'child' is allowed to kill, but executing them would be barbaric.

Even real children in Iran are aware of the many laws. Put a fifteen year old Iranian next to a fifteen year old European, and you will see the difference in mental development. The mental development of a person depends on their upbringing and their environment, and not necesarily on their age.

It is also thanks to many of these brave young soldiers that our country was kept safe during the Iraqi imposed war.

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No, I wouldn't, but I stated my views on an ISLAMIC forum. However if people were to complain about the Iranian government for punishing homosexuals, I will defend it and say that these are the laws of the country just like every other country has it's own laws.

You can get disgusted from us all you want, we hate you aswell :) . I am pretty sure you would not have said the same thing to a Christian who had the same views as me.

Wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The difference is that we believe God will punish people for their "sins of the flesh" one day. Our job is to show them that God hates sin but not the sinner and help them change their ways.

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sometimes a rotten apple will contaminate all the other apples so it needs to be taken out...in this case the rotten apples were the homosexuals.

If the Iranian govt had left them to walk the street...first of all they would most likely continue there haram acts and second of all other people in the society might think 'well nothing happened to them so we might get away with it'...this set the standards!!!! NO homosexuality in Iran is not OK at all!!!...a 15 year old should known better if he had known just a bit more about the word of Allah (SWT)!!!!

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The difference is that we believe God will punish people for their "sins of the flesh" one day. Our job is to show them that God hates sin but not the sinner and help them change their ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^The only problem is when your definition of sin becomes distorted and corrupted because of the tarnished and bridged nature of your beliefs. A product of “modernizing” a religion.

Answer this question. In Christianity, is being homosexual a sin, or is it only committing the act of homosexuality? Well, that’s the big debate that’s going on right now, isn’t it? The Roman Catholic Church finally decided that being homosexual is in fact NOT a sin, where committing the act of homosexuality is. But nonetheless, the had enough sense to realize that homosexual priests won’t really be a nice new addition to their churches, and that their state of homosexuality gets in the way of their “communion” with Christ.

It’s sort of like saying that believing in satanic and devilish concepts, to the extent that they define who you are is just fine, just as long as you don’t act by those satanic and devilish concepts.

It clearly illustrates why the Christian concept of God’s punishment being reserved for people who only commit “sins of the flesh”, and disregarding the mindset and intention of the person is flawed to say the least. In reality, Allah SWT judges a person not only by the outcome of their actions, but also according to the intentions and beliefs that they hold. After all, can true justice be achieved if God were to disregard the latter? I think not.

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^The only problem is when your definition of sin becomes distorted and corrupted because of the tarnished and bridged nature of your beliefs. A product of “modernizing” a religion.

Answer this question. In Christianity, is being homosexual a sin, or is it only committing the act of homosexuality? Well, that’s the big debate that’s going on right now, isn’t it? The Roman Catholic Church finally decided that being homosexual is in fact NOT a sin, where committing the act of homosexuality is. But nonetheless, the had enough sense to realize that homosexual priests won’t really be a nice new addition to their churches, and that their state of homosexuality gets in the way of their “communion” with Christ.

It’s sort of like saying that believing in satanic and devilish concepts, to the extent that they define who you are is just fine, just as long as you don’t act by those satanic and devilish concepts.

It clearly illustrates why the Christian concept of God’s punishment being reserved for people who only commit “sins of the flesh”, and disregarding the mindset and intention of the person is flawed to say the least. In reality, Allah SWT judges a person not only by the outcome of their actions, but also according to the intentions and beliefs that they hold. After all, can true justice be achieved if God were to disregard the latter? I think not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is lust a sin? No, it's normal. The person who feels lust is not a sinner until they act out on it and cheats on their spouse.

Same with homosexuality.

Some things cannot be legislated. If a person feels n his heart that there is no God, you cannot force them to believe that there is. You can attempt to reason with them and hopefully convince them that there is a God but killing them will serve no purpose. It will forever rob them of the chance of getting to heaven.

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Okay okay homos are human beings and should have human rights !

But...... (dont bann me for sayin this ) :wacko: dont homosexuals lynch each other when they r in one of their rough moments together ?

anyways its bull verify the website and see if the source is reliable or not !

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There is no need for four witnesses. Confession is enough. Also a public declaration should be enough. I say the last one, because a murtad can be killed if he declares it in public.

The age of maturity for a boy is fifteen, that is when all Islamic laws are enforced on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bro ,i disagree with that! islamic jurisprudiction is to protect and guide people ! Islamically 4 witnesses are required (ie the case of the somalian woman who was sentenced stoning''.

Confession should not only be enough and especially not in cases where the person has been put under stress to confess and emotionally drained by the investigators.

allhu alim

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Is lust a sin? No, it's normal. The person who feels lust is not a sinner until they act out on it and cheats on their spouse.

Same with homosexuality.

Some things cannot be legislated. If a person feels n his heart that there is no God, you cannot force them to believe that there is. You can attempt to reason with them and hopefully convince them that there is a God but killing them will serve no purpose. It will forever rob them of the chance of getting to heaven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, weather or not lust is a sin depends on intention. Something that is apparently absent in Chirstianity. A person can feel a certain connotation of lust towards their spouse in the privacy of their home. This is indeed normal, and its intentions are completely justified.

But lust becomes a sin where a man looks upon another man (or child) lustfully, or when a woman looks upon another woman lustfully. You described it as normal, and a quick glance at Western society confirms that, but the regressive and backwards nature of an immoral and uncivil society is not a measure for what is right and what is normal. Not by any standard. That is the intrinsic danger of your belief. A man looking at another man in a lustful matter is NOT normal, and the same in the case of the woman. This is not a matter of their identity or who they are. This is a diseased state of mind; a sickness. Attempts to justify their homosexuality as something they cannot control is analogous to making excuses for the devil. There is no justification for evil.

Furthermore, this diseased mindset that homosexuals and others define themselves by, that you are ignorantly advocating and justifying further demonstrates the erred nature of your belief. Christians have yet to reject the Prophets before Christ, so I shall take their example. Allah SWT sent the Prophet Lut (as), to the Sodomites as a warning and a guide unto them, but they rejected him and did not cease from adultery and homosexuality. Christian traditions as well as Muslim traditions agree that God abolished the people of Sodom because of the severity of their sinned nature. Here, according to both Muslim and Christian doctrine, God Himself AFFIRMS that homosexuality is NOT a state of mind that the homosexual cannot control, and neither is it a definition of who he is. It is a satanic and diseased mindset, and a SIN and its punishment is grave in the eyes of Allah. This is a found in Christian doctrine.

In addition, if one were to consider the inherent nature of homosexuality, and what truly brings it about, one would have to consider the circumstances that helps brings this diseased and satanic ideology about. From a philosophical perspective, if one were to truly look at the issue objectively, one would find that it is the justification of homosexuality as a state of being, and the lack of its condemnation as a state of being that ultimately opens the gate for people to embrace homosexuality, and then commit the act of homosexuality. It is the lack of condemnation for the intention of a person, and lack of regard for his mindset, and rather the justification of his mindset, that makes it possible for him to convince himself that this satanic and devilish concept defines him, and succumb to the ignorant notion that “this is who he is” and that he cannot help it and ultimately commit the act of homosexuality. This is the fatal error in Christian theology, and this is why they have a problem with homosexual priests among their ranks.

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bro ,i disagree with that! islamic jurisprudiction is to protect and guide people ! Islamically 4 witnesses are required (ie the case of the somalian woman who was sentenced stoning''.

Confession should not only be enough and especially not in cases where the person has been put under stress to confess and emotionally drained by the investigators.

allhu alim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Confession (obviously due to fear of Allah not due to fear of investigators..) in 3 different sittings is enuff for a punishment....

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The pictures of the hanged men are for first degree narcotic crimes as far as I am aware, not homosexuality. Naturally, the Western media will describe the pictures to suit its propaganda, not to correspond with reality. Not surprising.

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Wow. Is that really Islamic teaching?

I'll cut-out and keep your little post and take it out next time some naive, liberal Brit tells me Islam is 'The Religion of Peace'.

Is it any wonder you lot have so many problems in Europe!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's stuff like that that keeps me Sunni. I can't believe in the infallibility of these imams. I believe in the infallibility of the Prophets only; much some of what the imams say seems to be rooted in Arab culture and prejudices (as opposed to true revelation, which would not be constrained in such a manner), such as that statement about homosexuals deserving to be stoned twice.

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It's stuff like that that keeps me Sunni.  I can't believe in the infallibility of these imams.  I believe in the infallibility of the Prophets only; much some of what the imams say seems to be rooted in Arab culture and prejudices (as opposed to true revelation, which would not be constrained in such a manner), such as that  statement about homosexuals deserving to be stoned twice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So don't Sunni's support killing gays?

In many ways, I've been led to believe Shias are a bit more tolerant and a bit less gung-ho about killing than Sunni's. Am I wrong?

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:o

You live in Australia! You are why Australians can no longer tolerate their Muslim 'citizens'.

Ignorant savagery!

And to what extent do the whites in Australia follow aboriginal culture?

(Apart from the nekked women letting it all hang out).

Good reason for the aboriginals not to tolerate the whites!!

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Sunni's do in certain circumstances, it depends on the Sunni school of law. But Sunnis have more freedom of independant interpretation of qur'an and hadith in some ways than Shias do. It's a blessing and a curse, because that also means you can get idiots pronouncing fatwas. Shia jurists have to spend years studying Shia Islamic law and the 14 masoomeen before they can even consider pronouncing a fatwa; Shia scholars are arranged in a hierarchal level and Ayatollahs' trainig tends to be of a much higher standard than their Sunni counterparts.

The reason I have difficulty with Shiism is becasue Shias consider the imams (12 of them, in the case of the Ithna Ashari) to be infallible. Hence, if they made a pronouncement on matters of Islamic law, it is not questionable for a Shia. At the same time, though, Shia Islamic law in many areas is still under interpretation by the Ayatollahs, whereas Sunnis generally look back to the earlist legal decisions for precedents for more recent cases. The difference is that Sunnis don't take the early Muslims whose legal decisions they are looking to to be infallible, hance there is a bit more room for discussion...

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But Sunnis have more freedom of independant interpretation of qur'an and hadith in some ways than Shias do. It's a blessing and a curse, because that also means you can get idiots pronouncing fatwas. Shia jurists have to spend years studying Shia Islamic law and the 14 masoomeen before they can even consider pronouncing a fatwa; Shia scholars are arranged in a hierarchal level and Ayatollahs' trainig tends to be of a much higher standard than their Sunni counterparts.

Sunnis dont have more freedom of independent interepretation because they are bound to the taqlid of the 4 Imams (Abu Hanifa...etc). In the Shia school of thought the door of ijtihad is open, and one can come to his own conclusions based on the ahadith of the Ma'sumeen. Just wanted to point that out.

ws

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The pictures of the hanged men are for first degree narcotic crimes as far as I am aware, not homosexuality. Naturally, the Western media will describe the pictures to suit its propaganda, not to correspond with reality. Not surprising.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this true?

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I have a question. Can any normal citizen of Iran leave Iran if they wish to? For instance, here in America homosexuality is accepted and actually thrives in some locations. If a homosexual in Iran wanted to leave and come to America to live with those who would tolerate their sexual preference, could they?

I am willing to bet they can't. So, if they can't then someone who is a homosexual in Iran is trapped in a society that has no tolerance for it.

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I have a question.  Can any normal citizen of Iran leave Iran if they wish to?  For instance, here in America homosexuality is accepted and actually thrives in some locations.  If a homosexual in Iran wanted to leave and come to America to live with those who would tolerate their sexual preference, could they?

I am willing to bet they can't.  So, if they can't then someone who is a homosexual in Iran is trapped in a society that has no tolerance for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They cannot because the U.S. would not accept them.

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I have a question.  Can any normal citizen of Iran leave Iran if they wish to?  For instance, here in America homosexuality is accepted and actually thrives in some locations.  If a homosexual in Iran wanted to leave and come to America to live with those who would tolerate their sexual preference, could they?

I am willing to bet they can't.  So, if they can't then someone who is a homosexual in Iran is trapped in a society that has no tolerance for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean like a Homo-Visa. :wacko:

The US has to allow entrance to it's country, Iran can't do much about that.

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A person can't even board the plane without having a proper visa to enter the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay now that I think about it, you're right... but i was definetely reading somewhere that you can ask for political asylum at US airports and they will give it to you if they believe that your case is significant enough... so hmm... I wonder how that works

Wasalaam

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Oops, I accidently deleted my post when you said, "you're right". Got too excited.

A person can't even board the plane without having a proper visa to enter the US.
Okay now that I think about it, you're right... but i was definetely reading somewhere that you can ask for political asylum at US airports and they will give it to you if they believe that your case is significant enough... so hmm... I wonder how that works

Wasalaam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited by Zain
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