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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is it true?

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Guest THE GUARDIAN OF FAITH

A group of Shia's considered Imam Ali (as) as Allah (swt)..So Imam Ali (as) warned them, and they didn't listen, so he burned them alive.

The same basic concept will occur with Christians. Jesus (pbuh) on the day of judgement will order all Christians to convert to Islam, and those who don't, he will burn alive. IMO

Edited by THE GUARDIAN OF FAITH
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(bismillah) (salam)

I dont know and can't say anything before any reference...

So today is it possible to burn those alive who speak blasphemy?  Cause I don't think Marja like Sistani would agree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Brother he was Imam (as) "the Masoom" so if he did that may be due to some reasonings but we or any fallible can't do so....Hope i made myself a bit clear. :)

Wassalam.

Edited by Fatimaa
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(bismillah)  (salam)

I dont know and can't say anything before any reference...

And Brother he was Imam (as) "the Masoom" so if he did that may be due to some reasonings but we or any fallible can't do so....Hope i made myself a bit clear. :)

Wassalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I kind of get what your saying, but either the act itself was right or wrong regardless of who Imam Ali (as) is. Either burning people alive for blasphemy is right or wrong, so if it is right then we should be able to do it today, and if it's wrong maybe this is an example where Imam Ali (as) did something wrong. I think those people needed to be punished but burning alive is kind of harsh if you ask me.

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I kind of get what your saying, but either the act itself was right or wrong regardless of who Imam Ali (as) is.  Either burning people alive for blasphemy is right or wrong, so if it is right then we should be able to do it today, and if it's wrong maybe this is an example where Imam Ali (as) did something wrong.  I think those people needed to be punished but burning alive is kind of harsh if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is why I said i will not comment on this hadith before any proof.The second part was just what I thought, just a thought. :)

Wassalam.

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asalamu alaykum

i heard or read i dont remember exactly , but it was that there was a group of people i think from syria , who took Imam Ali (as) as god (astagfirAllah) , and theey were vanished from this earth

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So it wasn't Imam Ali (as) who burned them alive....hope anyone can bring proofs Inshallah.

Wassalam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The incident which I have heard from a number of alims and zakirs is that once a person saw Imam Ali (as) preform a miracle and after seeing that he called out to the Imam (as) as being God at which the Imam (as) told him not to but he persisted and then he was killed by the Imam (as). The Imam (as) bought him back to life again and then asked him again if he was God? the man agreed again so the Imam (as) killed him again and this happened seven times but the eighth time the Imam (as) did not bring him back to life

So the group you are refering to use this story as evidence for Imam Ali (as) being God but that is blasphemy and thats the greatest sin..

Wsalaams

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The incident which I have heard from a number of alims and zakirs is that once a person saw Imam Ali (as) preform a miracle and after seeing that he called out to the Imam (as) as being God at which the Imam (as) told him not to but he persisted and then he was killed by the Imam (as). The Imam (as) bought him back to life again and then asked him again if he was God? the man agreed again so the Imam (as) killed him again and this happened seven times but the eighth time the Imam (as) did not bring him back to life

So the group you are refering to use this story as evidence for Imam Ali (as) being God but that is blasphemy and thats the greatest sin..

Wsalaams

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Subhannallah!!!! You are going to tell me that the Imam (as) brought someone back to life???? Astagfirallah!!

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Subhannallah!!!!  You are going to tell me that the Imam (as) brought someone back to life???? Astagfirallah!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(bismillah)

(salam)

When Hazrat Issa (as) can raise people from dead then why cannot Imam (as) when he is higher than the main Prophets (as)?

Wsalaams

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(bismillah)

(salam)

When Hazrat Issa (as) can raise people from dead then why cannot Imam (as) when he is higher than the main Prophets (as)?

Wsalaams

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that a Shia belief or one account??? Can you tell me whether any Ulema have confirmed this??

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(salam)

Although I have never heard of Imam Ali [as] every raising anyone from the dead, I dont have any problem believing that the Awliya' of Allah swt can be given abilities that ordinary people dont have, and they can use these abilities by the will of Allah swt. Nabi Isa [as] has already been mentioned, and thats enough to show that had it happened, then its no shock as its happened before. Even Ibn Taymiyyah says that there are people from this Ummah that have the ability to raise the dead. But as I said I haven't heard that it ever happened with Imam Ali [as].

ws

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(salam)

Although I have never heard of Imam Ali [as] every raising anyone from the dead, I dont have any problem believing that the Awliya' of Allah swt can be given abilities that ordinary people dont have, and they can use these abilities by the will of Allah swt.  Nabi Isa [as] has already been mentioned, and thats enough to show that had it happened, then its no shock as its happened before.  Even Ibn Taymiyyah says that there are people from this Ummah that have the ability to raise the dead.  But as I said I haven't heard that it ever happened with Imam Ali [as].

ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well can anyone confirm that this is infact a Shia belief.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Bro if you are asking abt Prophet Isa (as) bring people back from dead and how is it possible in this ummah? or you talking in regards to my post about the Imam (as) being higher than the Prophets (as)?

Wsalaams

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I know it's a Shia belief that the Imams are higher than the Prophets (as) except Muhammad (pbuh). But about Ali (as) raising people from the dead.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Imam Ali (as) had hidden knowledge he had the ability to do miracles... And Why cant Imam Ali (as) bring back dead when Salman farsi had the ability to talk to the dead? I mean he was an fallible person but due to his eman he had reached such a high leve so what abt the one who is called the complete faith? and not just that if you read Nahjal Balagha you will see the eloquence and the knowledge of this personality. Inshallah if you give me some time I will look the reference to that incident

Wsalaams

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Allah knows best !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually never knew about this. I hear this is a tribe which thinks him to be a god.i forget what they are called starts with N....

but i never knew about the incident listed.I thought only God has the power to take and give life,but i guess these are the Panjatan it is still possible.

and neither did i know salman farsi (as) could talk to teh dead...Impressive!!!

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I have done salat al Istikhara several times, and I have made dua asking Allah(swt) to guide me. Also I have done more reading about the Sahaba (as) and it seems they were upon the truth. I thought about what I disagreed with and with Shism there was things I did but with Sunni Islam I couldnt really think of anything. I mean that I never disagreed with Sunni Islam in the first place I was only concerned if Shia Islam was more correct. After thinking about it I think that Allah(swt) was guiding me all this time to the Ahlul Sunnah, and it was my fault for me leaning towards Shia Islam. I feel that Sunni Islam is correct and the fact that the vast majority of Muslims are Sunni shows who Allah(swt) favored and that is victory indeed. Also to believe that Allah(swt) would allow the Umma to get to such a state as to where 1/10 Muslims were right in their path and rest false is very hard to believe. So I have decided to make my path of Islam which is my final choice the path of the Ahlul Sunnah Wa Jamah. I appreciate everyone that tried to help guide me and put much effort in to explaining different things. I don't want to mention names because I don't want to leave anyone out. But you guys know who you are. Also because I feel that I have learned much about Shia Islam and the fact that I keep getting caught up with the two, even though I believe in Sunni Islam, I feel that its best for me to leave this site. Again I thank all of you for your help. May Allah(swt) guide us all. Ameen.

Sincerely,

your Brother in Islam.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Here is the proof about Salman farsi talking with the dead as I said in my previous post:

"In the book entitled Fazaeel, It is related that a person by that name of Asbagh visited Salman in the beginning of the Khilafat of the Commander of the Faithful (as). He was still the governer of Madaeen, having been appointed to that office by Umar. He was taken sick and turning to the relator, he said: 'O Asbagh, the Prophet (pbuh) assured me that when my death approaches, the dead will speak to me. I wish to know if my departure is near. He then ordered a bier to be bought and a carpet to be spread on it and four men to carry him to the burying ground of Madaeen, where he was set down and having directed his attendants to turn his face towards the Keblah, he said with a loud voice: As-salam alaykum! O people of the old and corrupted field! Peace of God be upon you, you who are concealed from this world. There being no answer, he cried again: As-salam alaykum! You have tasted death, you whose covering is earth, you who ave reached the rewards of your works in this world and now wait the blast of Israfeel's trump to rise! I demand of you by the truth of the Almighty God and by the truth of the beloved Prophet (pbuh), that one of you answer me. Verily, I am salman-e-farsee, the freedman of the Prophet of God (pbuh) and he has told me that when my death approaches, the dead will speak to me, and I wish to know if my dead is near.

One in his grave now began to speak and said: As salam alaykum! Mercy and blessings of God be upon you! O you who build and are yourselves transitory and are busy on the arena of the world! I hear your words and will quickly answer ask what you wish. God be merciful to you. Salman rejoiced and replied: O you who speak after death and its sorrows, are you in paradise or hell? The dead replied: I am of the number on whom God has bestowed favor and in His mercy introduced to paradise. Salman said O servant of God, describe to me what you have experienced. He answered: Verily, cutting the body to pieces many times with shears is easier than the agony of death..."

I have not included the full incident for it is more than two pages long but those who wish to read it here is the reference Hayat ul Qulub Volume 2 Page no 361 - 363

Brother if you have any questions just ask... And I pray that may Allah guide you to the right path

Wsalaams

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(salam) Br Ali08,

I have a lot of respect for you because you clearly have tried your utmost hardest to find the right path and understand the different beliefs, and that is commendable. If you truly believe your path is the right one, then you should stay on it because that is all a person can do. My advice to you is don't stop seeking knowledge; if you're right it'll strengthen your belief, and if you're wrong it'll show you the right.

Just a few points. You said:

Also I have done more reading about the Sahaba  and it seems they were upon the truth.

All 100,000+ of them? Don't forget history of replete with the Sahaba fleeing for their lives and leaving the Prophet [sawa] when it suddenly became difficult (eg, look at Uhud, Hunain...). So no big surprise if they go back on their pledges after the Prophets death. And the Quran certainly hints at this possibility.

'...if he (Prophet) dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels?'

I feel that Sunni Islam is correct and the fact that the vast majority of Muslims are Sunni shows who Allah(swt) favored and that is victory indeed.

How about the vast majority of Christians and Jews in the past? Besides, the vast majority of humans are non-Muslims so why not leave Islam.

Also to believe that Allah(swt) would allow the Umma to get to such a state as to where 1/10 Muslims were right in their path and rest false is very hard to believe

It's not a case of Allah 'allowing' or no allowing; if people want to follow falsehood its up to them. Allah won't stop them. We saw it with the previous faiths and theres no reason why we should be surprised if we see it with Islam.

You are free to be Sunni, but please dont let the fact that they are the majority be one of your reasons.

Also because I feel that I have learned much about Shia Islam and the fact that I keep getting caught up with the two, even though I believe in Sunni Islam, I feel that its best for me to leave this site.

If Shiachat has helped you gain a lot of knowledge, then surely it would be a good thing to stay and gain even more knowledge?

ws

Edited by .InshAllah.
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