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In the Name of God بسم الله

Prayer: Shia vs Sunni

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(salam)

Salaams to all. I was interested in learning more about the differences in prayer between shias and sunnis. I am looking for historical resources or even commentary regarding the following issues. For starters:

1) The folding of the hands

2) The disappearance of (bismillah) at the start of the prayers.

ws

Edited by Mandela
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  • Advanced Member
(salam)

Salaams to all.  I was interested in learning more about the differences in prayer between shias and sunnis.  I am looking for historical resources or even commentary regarding the following issues.  For starters:

1) The folding of the hands

2) The disappearance of  (bismillah) at the start of the prayers.

ws

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1) This may be of some help when it comes to the changing of prayers (not necessarily the folding of hands): http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72994&st=0

2) I have heard that the reason why some people avoid saying (bismillah) (even though it is part of the Quran :wacko: ) is because Imam Ali (as) stated that he was the dot of the letter "ba" on (bismillah). Here is something I found on Pooya/M.A. Ali's commentary of the fatiha:

It is said that al Fatihah is the quintessence of the Quran, and bismillahir rahmanir rahim is the essence of al Fatihah, and the letter ba of bismillah is the embodiment of bismillahir rahmanir rahim, and the dot below the first letter ba of bismillah is the spirit of the first verse. Ali, son of Abu Talib, the first of the holy Imams, had said:

"I am the dot below the ba of bismillah" which means that to Ali has been entrusted the whole of the book and its true exposition, i.e. Ali had been endowed with the knowledge of the Quran with its external meaning and internal interpretation. The statement of Ali is testified by the well-known and universally accepted declaration (hadith) of the Holy Prophet:

I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.

Hope that helped.

Wasalam.

Edited by Muwahida
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Guest DjibrilCisse

^May I also add that every Qur'an I have seen/owned (including ones bought from Sunni countries), include Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Raheem as the first verse of Surat-ul-Fatiha.

DNO BOUT DEM 2... BUT ABOUT THE 5TYMS 3TYMS PRAYER.... READ DA QURAN (17:78) ULL SEE DERS 3 TYMS MENTIOND

I NO IS NOT WHA U ASK 4 BUT IT MAY HELP SOME OF THE READERS

Sorry to bring this up, but have you been deprived of English lessons? Do you have trouble typing like a normal person? Also, please don't use caps.

Salaams to all.  I was interested in learning more about the differences in prayer between shias and sunnis.  I am looking for historical resources or even commentary regarding the following issues.  For starters:

1) The folding of the hands

It would be interesting to note here that from the 4 madhabs of the Ahlul Sunnah, there is one (if not two) that prays with hands by their sides, like the Shia.

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Times:

Shia: All five, but time is adjusted to initial and last so it looks three

Sunni: All five, central times so its five times.

Hands:

Shia: hands open

Sunni: fold on chest above navel and on navel and open all allowed

Bismillah:

Shia: Aloud

Sunni: aloud and some silent

Qunut:

Shia: every set of prayers

Sunni: depend, some in Maghrib, fajr etc and soem with raised hands other with same postures as in recital

Aamin:

Shia: Not allowed, for soem its permissible

Sunni: Aloud, while for others its silent

Tashahud:

Shia: no raising finger

Sunni: raising finger some continue the action till prayer comes to an end

End:

Shia: three takbirs and for some Salam

Sunni: generally two salams with head actions

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(bismillah) (salam)

What happened is that the Prophet(s) first used to fold his arms, but then some hypocrites would hide idols in their sleves.  Thus, later on, the Prophet let this arms hang at the sides like the Shia do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree Brother but will add that when to know among all of them who was hypocrite(hiding statues in their sleeves and praying) it was said to open thier arms and prayat that time the whole of the masjid got filled with statues from those folded arms people hiding statues and from that time praying with open arms was imposed by Prophet (pbuh) and I think yes :unsure: .

so the folding way was more likeable to Prohet Muhammed (saww)

'so we should follow his sunnah then

he preferred it, sunnis prefer it!

Brother It was changed by Prophet himself so it should not be preferred...but some shias too pray with folded hands hmm the method is bit change.

If i'll find any reference i'll post later Inshallah.

Wassalam.

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asalamu alaykum

what i know , as i heard from Ali hashmi (on shia chat) apparently hes a scholar , that umar innovated the hand folding , and he took it from the persians , they used to fold their hands as a sign of respect for kings and visitors , umar saw this and said no one is worthy of such respect other than Allah

refer jawaher al kalam

Allah knows best

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Guest Shia by nature

(bismillah) (salam)

Bismillah:

Shia: Aloud

Sunni: aloud and some silent

We recite (bismillah) loud when we pray Fajr, Maghrib and Isha. Im not sure if we are allowed to recite it loud during Dhuhr and Asar.

Ma Salaam

Sayyid Ali Naqvi

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what i know , as i heard from Ali hashmi (on shia chat) apparently hes a scholar , that umar innovated the hand folding , and he took it from the persians , they used to fold their hands as a sign of respect for kings and visitors , umar saw this and said no one is worthy of such respect other than Allah

refer jawaher al kalam

babylonians, u want me to post their pics as well of the idols folding their hands?

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asalamu alaykum

well ^ , every1 was asking him questions , and when i had questions they told me to ask him or bro yaseen

also a friend on msn , told me they were friends , and that Ali hashmi is his teacher

so i assumed scholar

sorry my mistake

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asalamu alaykum

what i know , as i heard from Ali hashmi (on shia chat) apparently hes a scholar , that umar innovated the hand folding , and he took it from the persians , they used to fold their hands as a sign of respect for kings and visitors , umar saw this and said no one is worthy of such respect other than Allah

refer jawaher al kalam

Allah knows best

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hazrat Umar bin Al-Khattab (ra) and respect for Persian customs? Dont think so Umar was AN EXTREME CASE OF CONSERVATISM CONCERNING ISLAMIC CUSTOMS AND PRACTICES. Your story is a fabricated Shia propaganda lie.

Edited by La ilaha ill Allah
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asalamu alaykum

you can check the book yourself , all i remember is its called jawaher al kalam , perhaps bro DjibrilCisse can help get the exact references from the brother , as i dont have much contact with him anymore...

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As far as (bismillah) is concerned I think Sunni's do recite it but not "aloud" as it was said by Imam Hassan (as) that its mustahab to recite (bismillah) aloud and not to follow him people of that time(Mauwiya's partemen) recited it in slow voice :Hijabi: I m a sourceless person in many matters.. Extremely sorry :( If anyone can say anything feel free to correct me.

Wassalam.

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What happened is that the Prophet(s) first used to fold his arms, but then some hypocrites would hide idols in their sleves.  Thus, later on, the Prophet let this arms hang at the sides like the Shia do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so the folding way was more likeable to Prohet Muhammed (saww)

'so we should follow his sunnah then

he preferred it, sunnis prefer it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(bismillah)

Prayer was revealed to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) , when ??, it was at the time of mehraj. Hence, it was revealed by Allah swt to rasulalah (pbuh) . Allah swt is the all knowing and all wise, being omnipotent and omnicent it only makes sense that one method was revealed to the prophet (pbuh) .

i.e, if you say that the prophet (pbuh) prayed in more than one way you are either :

1. Questioning the wisdom of Allah swt hence stating that by him revealing more than one method he would not be aware of the confusion it would cause the muslim ummah later

or

2. Rasulalah (pbuh) prayed in a way not revealed to him by the alimghty, hence going against the rules of Allah swt.astagfurillah

It therefore only makes sense that there is only one method of prayer, and that is the way of the Ithna Ashariya.

Also note, that out of the Five so called sects, i.e maliki, hanifi, hanbali, shafi and JAAFERI, three out of the five have legitimacy to pray with their hands by their sides.

so, for all those who love the majority, why change now.

Ya Ali Madad

Ws

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