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In the Name of God بسم الله

Disabled Jenin boy shot by troops

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(bismillah)

(salam)

A young Palestinian man with learning disabilities has been shot dead by Israeli troops near the West Bank town of Jenin, Palestinian officials said.

Mujahid al-Simadi, 20, was shot through the chest during a raid to arrest militants.

The Israeli military said its soldiers had seen a "suspect armed with a weapon who was threatening them".

A 12-year-old boy was shot dead in the Jenin refugee camp three months ago during a stone-throwing protest.

Local residents said Mujahid al-Simadi had gone up to the troops with a toy gun and shouted that they should leave the village.

He was among a number of children who had surrounded a house occupied by Israeli soldiers and began to throw stones, Palestinian security sources said.

The soldiers opened fire from the house and Mujahid al-Simadi hit in the chest and died immediately, they said.

On Monday, Israeli troops shot and killed a 25-year-old Gaza woman near the border fence between the territory and Israel.

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you don't hear about ANY of these brutals murders on TV, but if any Palestinian did this, there would be an almighty uproar.

DEATH TO ZIONSIM

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As much as I hate the Zionists, if this man (he's not a boy if he's 20, he's military age) waved a toy gun at them that was realistic looking, and they mistook it for a real gun- and a lot of toy guns these days are almost indistinguishable from the real thing- and that's why they fired, they would obviously be within the rules of engagement.

You can't point something that looks like a weapon at a soldier in a war zone and expect them not to fire- especially when you're a male of military age; they have the right under international laws of war to do so.

Now the 12 year old rock thrower- that's a different story entirely. That's murder. This isn't.

Edited by Trekker
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Trekker said:
As much as I hate the Zionists, if this man (he's not a boy if he's 20, he's military age) waved a toy gun at them that was realistic looking, and they mistook it for a real gun- and a lot of toy guns these days are almost indistinguishable from the real thing- and that's why they fired, they would obviously be within the rules of engagement. 

You can't point something that looks like a weapon at a soldier in a war zone and expect them not to fire- especially when you're a male of military age; they have the right under international laws of war to do so.

Now the 12 year old rock thrower- that's a different story entirely.  That's murder.  This isn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a) He had learning disabilities so how can you possibly say it was a fault of his own that they killed him?

b ) This wasn't warefare was it, it was a raid into a Palestininan home.

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a) He had learning disabilities so how can you possibly say it was a fault of his own that they killed him?

b ) This wasn't warefare was it, it was a raid into a Palestininan home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a) I'm not saying its the young man's fault in the sense that he should have known better, because apparently he couldn't have, but as soon as he pointed something that looked like a weapon at a soldier he gauranteed his own death.

If I'm a soldier in a war zone and a military-age man points what looks like a gun at me I'm going to fire on him. What do you expect the soldiers would do, wait for him to fire it first to see if it was real or not? The soldiers were within the rules of engagement in firing on him. I'm much more interested in the issue of them occupying a Palestinian house, which IS a violation of the rules of war.

b)That's not my point, we can debate this issue of home occupation, but its a seperate issue. The event took place in a war zone.

You can't expect a soldier in an active conflict zone not to shoot when someone of military age points a gun at him. If it later turns out it was a toy, that's unfortunate, but not the fault of the soldier for firing.

What do you expect soldiers to do, wait everytime someone points a gun at them to see if it's real? You can't point anything that looks like a weapon at a soldier in a war zone and expect not to get shot at (duh).

The fault for this specific incident rests largely with whatever dimwit gave a toy gun to a mentally retarted man in a war zone. They signed his death sentence.

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a) I'm not saying its the young man's fault in the sense that he should have known better, because apparently he couldn't have, but as soon as he pointed something that looked like a weapon at a soldier he gauranteed his own death. 

If I'm a soldier in a war zone and a military-age man points what looks like a gun at me I'm going to fire on him.  What do you expect the soldiers would do, wait for him to fire it first to see if it was real or not?  The soldiers were within the rules of engagement in firing on him.  I'm much more interested in the issue of them occupying a Palestinian house, which IS a violation of the rules of war.

b)That's not my point, we can debate this issue of home occupation, but its a seperate issue.  The event took place in a war zone.

You can't expect a soldier in an active conflict zone not to shoot when someone of military age points a gun at him.  If it later turns out it was a toy, that's unfortunate, but not the fault of the soldier for firing.

What do you expect soldiers to do, wait everytime someone points a gun at them to see if it's real?  You can't point anything that looks like a weapon at a soldier in a war zone and expect not to get shot at (duh).

The fault for this specific incident rests largely with whatever dimwit gave a toy gun to a mentally retarted man in a war zone.  They signed his death sentence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

God almighty, I cry every time a child or young person is killed or hurt - whether muslim, jewish, christian, or any other. I seethe that people of bad faith have involved their children on the front lines of a war that they are unable to solve.

In this case, one must ask the obvious question; if this person was indeed mentally handicapped - WHERE WAS HIS FAMILY? Why werent his protectors/caregivers/parents/brothers/sisters etc. stopping him from going out, as Trekker aptly put it, into a war zone with an item that looked like a weapon?

Does his family not have some culpability in this that they were supposed to be protecting him, and clearly failed in that fundamental responsibility?

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God almighty, I cry every time a child or young person is killed or hurt - whether muslim, jewish, christian, or any other.  I seethe that people of bad faith have involved their children on the front lines of a war that they are unable to solve.

In this case, one must ask the obvious question; if this person was indeed mentally handicapped - WHERE WAS HIS FAMILY?  Why werent his protectors/caregivers/parents/brothers/sisters etc. stopping him from going out, as Trekker aptly put it, into a war zone with an item that looked like a weapon? 

Does his family not have some culpability in this that they were supposed to be protecting him, and clearly failed in that fundamental responsibility?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you actually suggesting that it was the family's fault?

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Are you actually suggesting that it was the family's fault?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would a family of a 3 year old who negligently allow their toddler to walk onto a busy street be responsible if he gets hit by a car? Or would you blame the driver for not seeing the 25" tall child run out from between cars into the street?

This individual was mentally handicapped, and could not support himself or protect himself, therefore, others were responsible for his well-being. Those people, who allowed him to venture into a war-zone carrying a dark, plastic toy that looked very closely to a real gun, bear some, if not all, responsibility if something were to happen to him.

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The responsibility lies on whoever was supposed to be taking care of him (that may or may not be his family), and whoever foolishly let him carry a toy gun around in a war zone.

Not that the soldiers should have even been there, but given the fact that this guy was a military-age Palestinian male with what looked like a gun, it became inevitable that any Israeli soldier who saw him would shoot.

Hell, when people travel to the territories for aid work, the Palestinians hosting them will warm them against wearing khaki, army-green, all-black, a keffiyah over the face (tempting when the sand is blowing) or anything that could be mistaken at a distance for military or paramilitary garb, if they're going to be in an area that has regular Israeli incursions. Same thing goes for young men carrying walking sticks or anything else that could be mistaken for a rifle. This is common knowledge. There's no way people were oblivious to the fact that this youth's carrying around a toy gun put him at great risk.

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