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hassan omar al kroati

censured because i don't like muawiya

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I was censured because i don't like muawiya. The barelvi sufi muslim's forbid me to say my opinion.i hate censorship.My logic was based on the hadith that who make war agains't hazreti imam Ali(r.a) is making war against the Prophet(s.a.s).Difference in fiqh are not a justification to kill ten's of thousand's of muslim's.Muawiya put his satanic son on power and this perverted son ,yazid, killed the children of Rasulullah(s.a.s) , raped the girl's of medina and make mass killing's of muslim's in the Holy city of Mecca.They censured my word's the barelevi sufi's and nobody can even answer me because my question was eliminated.Are this people crazy ? they boast that they love Rasulullah(s.a.s) and they don't defend his Ahl-Bayt (a.s). Who are this barelvi pakistani's. they are sunni sufi's but are very intollerant and sectarian ,they tread women in the same fashion as do taliban. please help me.I am right with be angry with those people ?

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I was censured because i don't like muawiya. The barelvi sufi muslim's forbid me to say my opinion.i hate censorship.My logic was based on the hadith that who make war agains't hazreti imam Ali(r.a) is making war against the Prophet(s.a.s).Difference in fiqh are not a justification to kill ten's of thousand's of muslim's.Muawiya put his satanic son on power and this perverted son ,yazid, killed the children of Rasulullah(s.a.s) , raped the girl's of medina and make mass killing's of muslim's in the Holy city of Mecca.They censured my word's the barelevi sufi's and nobody can even answer me because my question was eliminated.Are this people crazy ? they boast that they love Rasulullah(s.a.s) and they don't defend his Ahl-Bayt (a.s). Who are this barelvi pakistani's. they are sunni sufi's but are very intollerant and sectarian ,they tread women in the same fashion as do taliban. please help me.I am right with be angry with those people ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

depends on what u posted and how and where. u cant generalize. u know sunnis respect muawiya as a sahabi so if u went in guns blazing disrespecting him ur not going to be met with sane logical rational responses. 2ndly barelvi masjids that i have been to even have narays for Hazrat Ali so again u cant generalize and say they do this or that. treat women in the same fashion? based on what?

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Salam bro hassan omar....i know how u feel been there that that...The best advice that i can give you as your sister in faith is plssssss never ever argue with people who are very close minded..believe me its no use....u know sunni muslims here in my country are very mean.Even if u will talk to them in a very nice way one's they hear that your a shia muslims gosh!..you will end up arguing each other....so its better way to just keep them in our dua's coz they are ignorant about the history of the ahlul bayt.

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I was censured because i don't like muawiya. The barelvi sufi muslim's forbid me to say my opinion.i hate censorship.My logic was based on the hadith that who make war agains't hazreti imam Ali(r.a) is making war against the Prophet(s.a.s).Difference in fiqh are not a justification to kill ten's of thousand's of muslim's.Muawiya put his satanic son on power and this perverted son ,yazid, killed the children of Rasulullah(s.a.s) , raped the girl's of medina and make mass killing's of muslim's in the Holy city of Mecca.They censured my word's the barelevi sufi's and nobody can even answer me because my question was eliminated.Are this people crazy ? they boast that they love Rasulullah(s.a.s) and they don't defend his Ahl-Bayt (a.s). Who are this barelvi pakistani's. they are sunni sufi's but are very intollerant and sectarian ,they tread women in the same fashion as do taliban. please help me.I am right with be angry with those people ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

first of all let me say that you did a very brave thing in standing up for this

Indeed Muawiyah was a scoundral and he should be treated in history as such

secondly why should the shias respect muawiyah when he started cursing of Ali(as) infact he should be cursed

The sunnis get very upset whenever shias criticise any of the the 3 caliphs however they do not realise that this criticisim first came from the other sahaba themselves

Muawiyah however was different from the early companions of the prophet(saw)

all his life he and his father fought against Islam and later they took that religion and distorted it into a maalookiat(kingship)

Muawiyah was also responsible for the murder of companion of the Prophet(saw) Hujr ibn Adi(ra) and six other of his friends simply for the reason that they would not curse Ali(as) now tell me does a munafiq like muawiyah desrve any respect?

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depends on what u posted and how and where. u cant generalize. ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes we should not generalize

But if you study the kingship of muawiyah from unbiased accounts you will come to the same conclusion as shias about him

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It is not the first time i fight abut this question.I don't offend anybody ,i only make a question and say that it a contradiction with logic and justice to consider muawiya a good muslim.I like to ask in very politer way.they surppress me ,simply and directly, and without shame.they speak about adab and ahlak ,but they don't have any one. the only think what i hear teach them is honouring sufi shaykh's.

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Guest DjibrilCisse

Do not be surprised brother. The narrow-minded ones are often the misguided ones. It is too harmful to their comfortable and convenient beliefs to accept logical thinking. They would rather remain in ignorance than to take the effort to learn and to reform.

May Allah reward you for your efforts.

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I'm even sick of al this sect's who fight in heavy and cruel way each other everyone claiming to be the true ahl-sunna and kicking outside ahl-sunna o kicking outside Islam the other group's.maybe sunni islam is a myth ,a slogan.the reality is that they have hundred's of different sect's.the barelvis are even very harsh and bigoted in fiqh.for them everthing about women is haram , you became sick to read they harsh fatawas ,they insist even many about niqab.one of the biggest sin's is to speak to a women o hear a voice a women.i believe in temporary marriage and say it openly ,because the proof's are clear as the sun in the midday.i say that i would like to have a barelvi sister with niqab for a temporary marriage ,maybe she will learn other horizont's of existence and islamic knowledge staying with me some time. I don't intend sex ,it was enough a platonic relationship. but when she agree for sex ,i'm ready even for this.they lynch me inside the mosque for this.i was alway's quite calm and polite ad ready to hear criticism against my way of thinking.but they don't use argument's.they only make psicoterrorism like "you are this o you are that " ,"the shia are dirty dog's ","abu hanifa say this " ,"my tariqa peer say that" and so on.They are making blind taqlid in everything.The door for argument's is closed.i i have conflict's with the wahabi's ,they are narrow minded fanatic's.but this barelvi people are even worse.

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i'm croat.our muslim's are very tollerant. we have no problem's with any islamic school.we accept all, but keep our hanafi-ottoman tradition ,because it is our heritage. when i spoke to one of our young hodza (imam) about the muawiya question ,he say that Imam Ali (a.s) was right and muawiya wrong and fasiq and most probaly a munafiq.about mutah he say's that Imam Abu Hanifa choose to declare it haram for public safety of the masses ,as Omar to so ,for the same reason.but he don't offend me because i defend mutah as right ,he only smile to me and say : "Hassan,the iranian people are gentlemen so they can enjoy some flower more than arab sunni's.." Our local ulama don't accept the takfir agains't the shia's.this concet of takfir is new one and it was imported in the balkan's in the last year's of the 90's from saudi arabia.I'm not shia ,i'm not supporter of iranian revolution.But in these day's i finish to read the 550 page book of Imam Khomeini : "Adabus Salat".This text is a rare treasure of spiritual knowledge ,marifa and haqiqa. WOW !!! this is real sufism ,not pir worshipping o mass tariqa sufism.Irfan.After reading this book I change my name from Hassan Omar to Hassan Zaynul Abiden.Excuse my bad english.

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Guest DjibrilCisse

^Your english is very good. Alhamdulillah, you and your community are the types of Muslims our ummah needs. Let us stand strong and united, and be wary of those who wish to disunite us.

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i'm croat.our muslim's are very tollerant. we have no problem's with any islamic school.we accept all, but  keep our hanafi-ottoman tradition ,because it is our heritage. when i spoke to one of our young hodza (imam) about the muawiya question ,he say that Imam Ali (a.s) was right and muawiya wrong and fasiq and most probaly a munafiq.about mutah he say's that Imam Abu Hanifa choose to declare it haram for public safety of the masses ,as Omar to so ,for the same reason.but he don't offend me because i defend mutah as right ,he only smile to me and say : "Hassan,the iranian people are gentlemen so they can enjoy some flower more than arab sunni's.." Our local ulama don't accept the takfir agains't the shia's.this concet of takfir is new one and it was imported in the balkan's in the last year's of the 90's from saudi arabia.I'm not shia ,i'm not supporter of iranian revolution.But in these day's i finish to read the 550 page book of Imam Khomeini : "Adabus Salat".This text is a rare treasure of spiritual knowledge ,marifa and haqiqa. WOW !!! this is real sufism ,not pir worshipping o mass tariqa sufism.Irfan.After reading this book I change my name from Hassan Omar to Hassan Zaynul Abiden.Excuse my bad english.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then ur hanafi?

and u mentioned 100s of sects? matters of opinions on fiqh make not a sect.

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Brother , they are ton's of sect's inside so called ahl-sunna ,who hate and fight each other.everybody claim to be the true ahl sunna and say to the other's that they are deviated. you know it better than me , come on. What about deobandi and barelvi fitnah ? what about salafi and sufi fitnah ? the fighting's between sufi turuq's ? Come on ,come on.In Pakistan maybe they are specialist in fighting and cursing each other.And all together then curse the shia's. Balkan Hanafi's have nothing to do with subcontinent hanafi's. The hanafi's in the subcontinent are sadly puritan zelot's ,purdah fanatic's and sectarian enthusiast's. Ottoman hanafi tradion is more tollerant then subcontinent hanafi's.Both of them have few to do we real Imam Abu Hanifa.They follow middle age scholar's who compiled fatawa book's and study them blindly.I'm hanafi ,for me ,as my techer's say to me ,hanafi madhab is the more lenient and more liberal of all madhab's.In our balkan tradition. Even the shia's are different . Iranian shia are very enlightened(most of them ,not all) ,maybe in other countries they are more sectarian. I don't know.What i like to say is that there is no unique and united ahl-sunna.there are big theoric difference's inside ,not only in fiqh.

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(bismillah)

Brother Hassan Omar; there is only ONE Shiism, and that is Imami (Ethna –Ashari) Shiism – Anything else like the Ismaelis or the Zaydis are NOT Shias.

We are ONE, and our Twelve Imams are all ONE.

(salam)

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(bismillah)

Brother Hassan Omar; there is only ONE Shiism, and that is Imami (Ethna –Ashari) Shiism – Anything else like the Ismaelis or the Zaydis are NOT Shias.

We are ONE, and our Twelve Imams are all ONE.

(salam)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are ithna ashri anatolian alevis included in this fraternity? :unsure:

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Brother Hassan Omar; there is only ONE Shiism, and that is Imami (Ethna –Ashari) Shiism – Anything else like the Ismaelis or the Zaydis are NOT Shias.

We are ONE, and our Twelve Imams are all ONE.

How about the Hashashin shias who were killed off by the Mongols? They were a radical Shia sect which killed many Sunni rulers because they persecuted the Shias. They were Ismailis, yet would you consider them to be Shia even though they were not 12ers? just curious.

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Brother , they are ton's of sect's inside so called ahl-sunna ,who hate and fight each other.everybody claim to be the true ahl sunna and say to the other's that they are deviated. you know it better than me , come on. What about deobandi and barelvi fitnah ? what about  salafi and sufi fitnah ? the fighting's between sufi turuq's ? Come on ,come on.In Pakistan maybe they are specialist in fighting and cursing each other.And all together then curse the shia's. Balkan Hanafi's have nothing to do with subcontinent hanafi's. The hanafi's in the subcontinent are sadly puritan zelot's ,purdah fanatic's and sectarian enthusiast's. Ottoman hanafi tradion is more tollerant then subcontinent hanafi's.Both of them have few to do we real Imam Abu Hanifa.They follow middle age scholar's who compiled fatawa book's and study them blindly.I'm hanafi ,for me ,as my techer's say to me ,hanafi madhab is the more lenient and more liberal of all madhab's.In our balkan tradition. Even the shia's are different . Iranian shia are very enlightened(most of them ,not all) ,maybe in other countries they are more sectarian. I don't know.What i like to say is that there is no unique and united ahl-sunna.there are big theoric difference's inside ,not only in fiqh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then that depends on ur definition of sects. i know all the hate all the lil groups carry foe each other, but they do not differ on anything but matters of fiqh and applications of it. the fundamentals remain the same across the board. the way i always defined it, and maybe im wrong, is that the sect is formed is when u differ on matters of the principles of faith. for example Shiism is a sect seperate from Sunnism because of the belief of Imamate as a pillar of Islam, not because there is fighting between Sunnis and Shias and they hate who we love or we call them names.

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then that depends on ur definition of sects. i know all the hate all the lil groups carry foe each other, but they do not differ on anything but matters of fiqh and applications of it. the fundamentals remain the same across the board. the way i always defined it, and maybe im wrong, is that the sect is formed is when u differ on matters of the principles of faith. for example Shiism is a sect seperate from Sunnism because of the belief of Imamate as a pillar of Islam, not because there is fighting between Sunnis and Shias and they hate who we love or we call them names.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

explain please why barelevis declare deobandis and wahabis as shaytan's and dog's of hell. explain why wahabis declare barelvis as mushrikun and kuffar.

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explain please why barelevis declare deobandis and wahabis as shaytan's and dog's of hell. explain why wahabis declare barelvis as mushrikun and kuffar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if u have to keep in mind that wahabis are not sunnis or not considered sunnis by sunnis, instead they are mislead. 2ndly a group hating another doesnt make it a sect. go to any mosque sadly and u will have uncles fighting, ppl disagreeing but no matter how much barelvis hate deobands and vice versa, the princicples of islam for both are identical. u can call them sects by ur definition but they arent considered sects cause they share the same islamic principles.

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(salam)

only true sect is twelver shiaism, holy prophet(saw) LEFT behind his family and this can be proven from thousand of sunni books, however sunnism is very divided, it has many many sects, May Ahlul bayt(As) help us on the day of judgement ameen........

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I was censured because i don't like muawiya. The barelvi sufi muslim's forbid me to say my opinion.i hate censorship.My logic was based on the hadith that who make war agains't hazreti imam Ali(r.a) is making war against the Prophet(s.a.s).Difference in fiqh are not a justification to kill ten's of thousand's of muslim's.Muawiya put his satanic son on power and this perverted son ,yazid, killed the children of Rasulullah(s.a.s) , raped the girl's of medina and make mass killing's of muslim's in the Holy city of Mecca.They censured my word's the barelevi sufi's and nobody can even answer me because my question was eliminated.Are this people crazy ? they boast that they love Rasulullah(s.a.s) and they don't defend his Ahl-Bayt (a.s). Who are this barelvi pakistani's. they are sunni sufi's but are very intollerant and sectarian ,they tread women in the same fashion as do taliban. please help me.I am right with be angry with those people ?

Salaam,

Masha'Allah!

All I can say as a shia to a sunni like yourself is Masha'Allah!

This is the first step, loving the Ahlulbayt (as) and hating their enemies...

If all sunnis were like you, there could be an even closer Shia/Sunni relation.

I did the very same thing when I was a sunni, I started speaking logically and factually and so my moulanas told me that I am making un-Islamic statements!

Instead of trying to offer counter-arguments and helping to offer guidance, they kept aloof from me as if I had leprosy or something???

Again, Masha'Allah! you are thinking FREELY now!

No more the Barelvi and Deobandi mind-chains!

Masha'Allah from one muslim to another!

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH

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Salaam,

Brother, as for your question who are they:

The Barelvis and the Deobands are two schools from the Indo-pak sub-continent...

They are like factories which chern-out the most narrow-minded pseudo-sunnis you'll ever see in your life!

- People who will be fixated on folding their trousers and certain length...

- Who pride themselves on making takfeer on others and their most frequently used words are: "Shirk," "Bidah" and "Kufr"

- Their most quoted people in history will be calif Umar and Mu'awiyah...

- The are never open to any discussions and almost satanistically rellish in the fact that the ummah is disunited...

Hope you enjoyed my explaination of the 2 schools from Hell... :)

They closely resemble the Wahaabi/Salafi-movement...

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH

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