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tennights

almost impossible-muta with non-virgin christian?

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^ I just want to make sure if i'm right.

Its permissible to do mutah with Ahlul Kitab?

I'm trying to convert this women, who isn't muslim but is a Ahlul Kitab. Now she's only 17,  and i don't think shes a virgin. She repents for her sin (adultery) and says she needs more time to think about islam.  Can i do mutah with her? Do i have to tell her parents?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wa Salaam,

You can marry her but understand something. Unless she was married, she did not commit adultery. She committed fornication. Both are sins but a huge difference between the two. Second, if she has a good relationship with her parents then you should tell them. You should give them the same respect you'd give a Muslim family. This is dawah. People look at how we act. They hear what we say but they see how we act which really tells the people what you believe. Don't beat her down with Islam. Dawah through your actions. She may be more inclined to it after she watches you.

Wa Salaam,

Djibril

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Can two persons recite the formula for mutah marriage in arabic even though (in this case the girl) doesnt understand what is being said? :Hijabi:

would have been alot easier for us living in the west :angel:

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If she does not to repeat after you (the muta lines).. for some odd reason.. and if she was ready to commit zina.. then you probably scared her away..... with your tone, or your seriousness.. you have to see if the chemistry is good.. make her laugh, rip on her.. making her laugh will make her feel comfortable.. what i also do is.. act like i am all that (as a joke). ask her to take you out for a movie, buy you popcorn, joke with her. . what have you done for me lately? something happens to them.. they dont feel intimadated anymore.., and start to feel comfortable with you.. and then they will be willing to do anything with you.. and Muta is what you want to do with them. (Halal)

Serious question, isn't this haraam? What you're saying to do is to flirt..i mean that's how you build chemistry, right? Also going on a date might not entail touching but it certainly entails haraam looks at the girl (you only get 1, remember?) and also flirting (which i thought breaks the rules of hijab?) I've always wondered this because i never understood how muta could ever be done without doing something haraam in the process, it seems to me that if you observe all the islamic rules then it becomes impossible =( .

Also if you are a sistani follower it becomes even harder because a non-virgin who lost her virginity via zina still needs to get the permission of her father, even if she is financially independent..That really makes it impossible. But that's a seperate issue, i'd like the first part about dating ot be answered first and foremost.

If your in Muta.. its not like Nikah, that its up to the man if he divorces her or not.. he can drag the qula as well.. but in Muta its her right ..she can dump you whenever she wants.. and for any reason she can leave you.. its her right.. in Nikah men have alot of rights.. in muta women have all the rights.. even for the smallest reason she can leave you.. and its ok.

That might be factually incorrect..I've always heart that in muta the woman has to stay until the agreed time that was set in the contract, it is only the man that has the right to return the time to her.

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Brother Zanadine:

If your advice was to teach younger brothers on how to be player -- you've done a superb job. A little tacky but well played. However, if your goal was to keep haram way from them -- you've failed miserably.

In fact you've committed more haram in order to get to the Halal (the Muta Nikah). This is not the way. In fact, you've been deceitful and you went through all that trouble just to sleep with her. This my friend is an abuse of Mut'a. You've violated the essence of the law.

Just to inform you -- since you've already gave probably the worst medical advice ever when suggesting the use of two condoms (the friction caused by two condoms will tear them both) -- a condom cannot protect you against HPV (not HIV) HPV if contracted will be with you for the rest of your life. And when you finally do settle down and marry a wholesome woman, the gift you'll give her is cervical cancer.

I'm sure your wife would love you for plenty for destroying her chances of ever having children and receiving pleasure from intimacy. Hey, at least when the doctors remove her cervix, she'll shed a few ounces. Which girl doesn't like to lose weight, right Brother Zanadine?

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Salaam brother, Its not that complicated as you think it is.. I have done Muta with christian, .. this is how i did it.. I went out on a date.. i dont even believe in doing anything physical on the first date anyways. I like to get to know each other.. if the chemistry is good.. she knows it.. and you know it.. the date goes successful.. you both click.. you feel in control of the situation.. had a good time.. she wants to see you again.. and you know its time to move the relationship further (physical). This is when you should tell them about muta casually. The more serious you get them to think.. they more they get scared and run away.. So you tell them in a casual manner.. explain to them that you cannot touch her because of your personal beliefs... According to your beliefs i cannot touch you unless i am married. (At this point she might get a little confused). continue telling her... but there are two types of marriages, One is a marriage which is like our mom and dad's marriage which is permanent. and the other is fixed time marriage. Fixed time marriage is like legal way of dating.. thats all.. so if you want me.. you have to say this.. tell her its more romantic if you understand.. tell her to repeat after you.. I am giving to you myself as your wife or companion, for this amount of time and this amount of dowry. and you say "I accept" and you HAVE To pay the amount whatever she said immediately. and you have to set a time limit. she may tell you what if the time runs out. Tell her that you can leave me before or if you want to stay with me for more time for even lifetime we can always extend the time limit or turn into into a permanent marriage like our mom or dad in the future. its just saying this makes me feel that i am not disobaying God. You will be surprised that she will smile or laugh and repeat it for you.. She may say that i dont believe in it but i'll repeat it for you.. and its good enough.. Believe me i have done Muta with a one penny. I have even done muta with one dollar. because the dowry was not an issue for them.. but later i have given them nice gifts.. took them out for shopping.. when i thought her company was worth it..and she deserves it.. then I spent a good money.. but i start with little money in the begining with quick and cheap dates (usually going just for over coffee) Just go for them.. ask them out.. this is the most hard part.. anyways they are into Zina, and Haraam.. for them Muta is strange but its not a big deal. infact one girl felt that she was honoured that i offered her this previlege.. instead of just zina with no commitments. she thought it was the nicest thing somebody has offered her in a long time. and it was very romantic. she used to tell her friends .. We are temperarily married!!! . If she does not to repeat after you (the muta lines).. for some odd reason.. and if she was ready to commit zina.. then you probably scared her away..... with your tone, or your seriousness.. you have to see if the chemistry is good.. make her laugh, rip on her.. making her laugh will make her feel comfortable.. what i also do is.. act like i am all that (as a joke). ask her to take you out for a movie, buy you popcorn, joke with her. . what have you done for me lately? something happens to them.. they dont feel intimadated anymore.., and start to feel comfortable with you.. and then they will be willing to do anything with you.. and Muta is what you want to do with them. (Halal) always keep a good intention, If she wants to stay a virgin. dont convince her to break it.. you dont have to have intercourse in muta.. you can do outercourse .. and enjoy pleasure. its like eating a fat free, low calorie, guilt free cake. If you have fallen in love.. and she has not.. and she wants to leave you.. after using you.. enjoying you.. relax, set her free.. and remember.. If your in Muta.. its not like Nikah, that its up to the man if he divorces her or not.. he can drag the qula as well.. but in Muta its her right ..she can dump you whenever she wants.. and for any reason she can leave you.. its her right.. in Nikah men have alot of rights.. in muta women have all the rights.. even for the smallest reason she can leave you.. and its ok. you just have to move on. she leaves you.. be a perfect gentlemen and always keep the door open. dont try to chase her, call her too much, threaten her, stalk her, follow her, beg her ... all this is a turn off! the more you do this.. the more she does not like you and is more turned off!!! the best thing to do is respect her decision and let her go.. give her space.. believe me she will respect you for this.. and after a few days she would'nt mind staying in touch or even getting back together.. and maybe this time around she may really fall in love with you.. because you were a perfect gentlemen when she was not sure about you. some young girls i have heard say that the biggest gift you can give to your wife is your virginity. I disagree with this.. the biggest gift you can give to your wife is expertise and knowledge in how to be with your wife ( emotionally, physically, financially, and in every aspects). knowledge is not good enough.. if your experienced.. it comes very handy after marriage.. and she will thank you. wear nice perfumes when your in muta. interesting seductive smells.. clean clothes, clean underwear and socks, polished shoes. and make sure you dont have a bad breath. also make sure if going to bed.. make sure you carry protection.. (condoms). I suggest wear two condoms.. not one in bed. unless you get her tested. because HIV is very common nowadays. satisfying her sexually is another subject. fear of pregnancy is another subject.. how to avoid getting her pregnancy. If she gets pregnant.. then its your responsibility to take care of the upbringing of the baby atleast financially. these are all Islamic values.. zanadine.

Possibly the worst post on muta ever. Full of nonsense, advice to commit haram activities, and factually incorrect statements.

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Salam,

Allah (SWT) says in the Quran :

الزَّانِي لَا يَنكِحُ إِلَّا زَانِيَةً أَوْ مُشْرِكَةً وَالزَّانِيَةُ لَا يَنكِحُهَا إِلَّا زَانٍ أَوْ مُشْرِكٌ ۚ وَحُرِّمَ ذَ‌ٰلِكَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

"The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. "

I read the same aya in a hadith concerning the zawaj al mut'a by one of our Imams (as) !

The hadith which is conforming to the Quran is Sahih according to Rasul Allah (SAWAS) and Imam Jafar as Sadeq (as) !

So it is haram to make any marriage (mot'a or not) with a fornicator or fornicatress !

Ma'as Salama

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(salam)

1) u need permission from father if virgin, so u have to know whether she is or not

2) once u know she is not, u not allowd to do nikah (including muta) with her with exception if she married then divorced, which u know is not the case for ppl in high school and uni

unless u get her to repent which means she has to acknowledge it was wrong in the 1st place, suratal noor makes in haram for any believer to to nikah with her

muta is in the bible, and in the old days, the people of the book use to do it when needed, like they did it north america with natives cause in the begining there was not much women, but nowadays, ahlul-kitab don't do anything according to their books, they just do plain and simple zina, which make it haram for us to do muta with them,

now can someone tell me if I got all the facts above right or is there an exception rule with muta regarding marrying zina ppl?

most your info is wrong

virgin needs permission of wali as a precaution

wali is one whomakes decision to your best intrest so a christian preventing the girl to go with a muslim is not to the best of her intrest and hence "3athil" and his "wylayah " authority is null according to the fiqh

even a muslim who is "3thil" and rejects marriage for non-islamic reasons is "3athil" and his permission not needed even if she is virgin

also dont forget the fatwa of permission is precautionary and some scholars give absolute fatwa about this which says the rashida doesnt need permission but only the minor does

when you have precaution and absolute fatwas you need to either folow the absolute oens or take the precaution but you can ont declare the precaution a general law

i am intrested to know which part of zanadines advice was haraam according to the above critisism?

when he said " do a nonphysical date and only propose muta when you feel the relation has come close to physical contact??? "

or the part where he said " some times the muta girl doesnt really belive in it but just wil repeat the words without really thinking that they will make a difference????

his first statement he has not said how far to go with the girl and his proposal is not more haraam than your typical haraam engagements which last for years in your current system

his second statement also its the openion of the scholars that your duty is only to explain to the other side that you are getting married and if they go along without them being convinced then thier sin is thier own problem not yours,,, whats required from you is to mean it as a marriage and belive in it..... are you saying that its better for those girls to forincate than to marry zanadine without taking the marriage seriously?

islam says to the countraty under the law of " Wati alshubha" which means if you had intimacy with a woman by mistake and found out later that you were not allowed that its not regarded as zina

if she has forincated in the past its not haraam to marry her

Edited by alimohamad40

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Damn interesting posts lol so the formula must be recited in arabic or could be done in english? I think its useless if done in arabic in a western country :/

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Salaam brother, Its not that complicated as you think it is.. I have done Muta with christian, .. this is how i did it.. I went out on a date.. i dont even believe in doing anything physical on the first date anyways. I like to get to know each other.. if the chemistry is good.. she knows it.. and you know it.. the date goes successful.. you both click.. you feel in control of the situation.. had a good time.. she wants to see you again.. and you know its time to move the relationship further (physical).

This is when you should tell them about muta casually. The more serious you get them to think.. they more they get scared and run away.. So you tell them in a casual manner.. explain to them that you cannot touch her because of your personal beliefs... According to your beliefs i cannot touch you unless i am married. (At this point she might get a little confused). continue telling her... but there are two types of marriages, One is a marriage which is like our mom and dad's marriage which is permanent. and the other is fixed time marriage. Fixed time marriage is like legal way of dating.. thats all.. so if you want me.. you have to say this.. tell her its more romantic if you understand.. tell her to repeat after you..

I am giving to you myself as your wife or companion, for this amount of time and this amount of dowry. and you say "I accept" and you HAVE To pay the amount whatever she said immediately. and you have to set a time limit.

she may tell you what if the time runs out. Tell her that you can leave me before or if you want to stay with me for more time for even lifetime we can always extend the time limit or turn into into a permanent marriage like our mom or dad in the future. its just saying this makes me feel that i am not disobaying God.

You will be surprised that she will smile or laugh and repeat it for you.. She may say that i dont believe in it but i'll repeat it for you.. and its good enough..

Believe me i have done Muta with a one penny. I have even done muta with one dollar. because the dowry was not an issue for them.. but later i have given them nice gifts.. took them out for shopping.. when i thought her company was worth it..and she deserves it.. then I spent a good money.. but i start with little money in the begining with quick and cheap dates (usually going just for over coffee)

Just go for them.. ask them out.. this is the most hard part.. anyways they are into Zina, and Haraam.. for them Muta is strange but its not a big deal. infact one girl felt that she was honoured that i offered her this previlege.. instead of just zina with no commitments. she thought it was the nicest thing somebody has offered her in a long time. and it was very romantic. she used to tell her friends .. We are temperarily married!!! .

If she does not to repeat after you (the muta lines).. for some odd reason.. and if she was ready to commit zina.. then you probably scared her away..... with your tone, or your seriousness.. you have to see if the chemistry is good.. make her laugh, rip on her.. making her laugh will make her feel comfortable.. what i also do is.. act like i am all that (as a joke). ask her to take you out for a movie, buy you popcorn, joke with her. . what have you done for me lately? something happens to them.. they dont feel intimadated anymore.., and start to feel comfortable with you.. and then they will be willing to do anything with you.. and Muta is what you want to do with them. (Halal)

always keep a good intention, If she wants to stay a virgin. dont convince her to break it.. you dont have to have intercourse in muta.. you can do outercourse .. and enjoy pleasure. its like eating a fat free, low calorie, guilt free cake.

If you have fallen in love.. and she has not.. and she wants to leave you.. after using you.. enjoying you.. relax, set her free.. and remember.. If your in Muta.. its not like Nikah, that its up to the man if he divorces her or not.. he can drag the qula as well.. but in Muta its her right ..she can dump you whenever she wants.. and for any reason she can leave you.. its her right.. in Nikah men have alot of rights.. in muta women have all the rights.. even for the smallest reason she can leave you.. and its ok. you just have to move on. she leaves you.. be a perfect gentlemen and always keep the door open. dont try to chase her, call her too much, threaten her, stalk her, follow her, beg her ... all this is a turn off! the more you do this.. the more she does not like you and is more turned off!!! the best thing to do is respect her decision and let her go.. give her space.. believe me she will respect you for this.. and after a few days she would'nt mind staying in touch or even getting back together.. and maybe this time around she may really fall in love with you.. because you were a perfect gentlemen when she was not sure about you.

some young girls i have heard say that the biggest gift you can give to your wife is your virginity. I disagree with this.. the biggest gift you can give to your wife is expertise and knowledge in how to be with your wife ( emotionally, physically, financially, and in every aspects). knowledge is not good enough.. if your experienced.. it comes very handy after marriage.. and she will thank you.

wear nice perfumes when your in muta. interesting seductive smells.. clean clothes, clean underwear and socks, polished shoes. and make sure you dont have a bad breath. also make sure if going to bed.. make sure you carry protection.. (condoms). I suggest wear two condoms.. not one in bed. unless you get her tested. because HIV is very common nowadays.

satisfying her sexually is another subject. fear of pregnancy is another subject.. how to avoid getting her pregnancy. If she gets pregnant.. then its your responsibility to take care of the upbringing of the baby atleast financially.

these are all Islamic values..

zanadine.

You are so right. 100% of what you said. But I must add that I hope many men who decide to do mutah with a lady actually feels the love for her. I understand that isnt always the case, (pure love i mean) maybe there is chemistry & you both want eachother but i hope the majority of men wait until they KNOW they really love her... As a woman, of course I will say this.

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