Looking for sunni sheikh for debate! - Shia-sunni debate in london

[Baatil Ka Kaatil 8]

Salaamalaikum,

I will pm you my details.

Wa'salaam

Asad Ali.

[Syed 0]

bismillah

(salam)

Wut's the latest concerning the debate??? Brother YaZahra said something about setting up a web page.. Is it up???

wa salam

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

Assalaamu Alaikum

Thank you for your response. At the current moment we are still trying to get the suitable funding for this event, as our previous funders have changed their mind due to the delay caused in looking for a sunni speaker.

We are still looking to do it but have had a set back and require more time. The response we've had has been very positive and we are looking for a 400+ venue, in central london. (preferably a neutral ground like a university hall or community centre.) At the same time we need money for publicity and possibly food. So any help in this respect is much appreciated.

Dear AbulHassan..

Can you please inform me of a program in which Pir Sahab will speak so that we may attend and see his style? It would give us an idea of how successful the debate will be, how much authority in the community he has, and if he has the capabilities. Please dont get me wrong as I am not trying to underestimate his knowledge, but i would just like to be reassured as i personally know little about him.

take care

wasalaam

Edited By YA ZAHRA on 1033426680

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Please visit yanabi.com for videos of Pir Sahibs speeches, held in the UK, Elsewhere in Europe and Asia too.

By the way the following queries have been put forward so we may know Sayed Milani's views:

1) What is your opinion of Hadrat Abu Bakr as-Siddiq

(raa)?

2) What is your opinion of Hadrat `Umar Faruq (raa)?

3) What is your opinion of Hadrat Imam Hasan (raa)?

-4) What is your opinion of Imam al-Azam Abu Hanifa

(ra)?

Please if possible, can you get Sayed Milani's views on the above. Please make sure they are HIS views and not anyone elses.

Wasalaam.

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

salaam

These are urdu, anything english?

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

I suggest you visit Dar Uloom Qadria Jillania Masjid in Walthamsow, London. Pir Sahib is the Imam there.

By the way, any feedback on the four questions put forward to Sayed Milani?

Wasalaam.

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

salaam

no, not yet. i need to see him inshaallah and ask him to answer in his own words.

wasalaam

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Thank you for your response. Where is Sayed Milani based? Here in the UK? Inshallah i'll get feedback on the queries put forward to him via yourself.

Wasalaam.

[Ibn Rushd 0]

(salam) ,

It is interesting to not all the trash talking going on throughout the posts in this thread, note the word trash.

Also it is just incredible to see someone post stuff like 'sufi sunni', obviously this person knows nothing of sects in islam.

i suggest you look up people such as  Mansoor el-Hallaj, well known Sufi leaders, and see what they are like, before you go off making misleading statements to people who otherwise REALIZE their knowledge is limited and might take your ignorant words for the truth.

ignorance is not an excuse, make sure the words you utter are truth, otherwise you will be held responsible for them.

-my 2 cents.

salam alaikum.

[Ibn Rushd 0]

But on another note, it is great, mashallah, all this work you guys are doing to organize this event. Inshallah it will happen, we need our youth more active in debates such as this, anything to keep increasing our knowledge and brotherhood.

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Brother ibn Rushd, I have gone over and over your post and still do not understand what you are going on about.

Wasalaam.

[Ibn Rushd 0]

SA,

i apologize for not being clear, i was just going through the threads, and saw many remarks like this guy can beat 4 of your people, and so on, hence trash talking. And the use of wrong labels interchangeably with sunnah, this one brother wrote.

"Most sunni brothers, I have been informed are not sufi and hence I believe and so do the other brothers that it would be inappropriate for a sufi sunni brother to represent the sunni side."

seeing this kind of remark really upset me, because sunnah, and sufism are just as different as sunna and shiaism, and wahabism being used inapropriatly and interchangeably for a sunni is just as dumb, the point of this forum is for everyone to have an educated discussion, if someone denounced or abused shiasm like that anywhere in this discussion it would be completely jumped upon and pointed out, but just because people are quiet to these dumb posts, everyone is taking their liberal self and continuing on this ignorance. do you understand how wierd it would look for me to say a "shia-sunni scholar says ......  "

i apologize if i had said anything inapropriate, i just had to say in case the people making these remarks will hopefully read this and make sure they know what they are talking about before they utter miscontrued "facts".

thanks for listening...

Salam.

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

Salaam

Don't Sufi or Wahabbi ideologies belong to one of the 4 Sunni schools?

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Any feedback regarding Sayid Milani and/or the debate?

Wasalaam.

[Ibn Rushd 0]

SA,

Yes, there are 4 schools of thought, they are:

Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali.

None of which belong either sufi's or wahhabi's.

In this forum the term 'wahhabi' is used as a fear-label. Just as the zionists use 'anti-semite' to label anyone or anything that could threaten anything of importance to them, without even evidence to back it up. first of all by your asking this question to me, it implies lack of knowledge about Sufi's, Wahhabi's AND Sunnah. So why let loose with this rhetoric and any person is just labeled a wahhabi, ive seen it used like this

"this guy is a wahhabi and also this man too, and probably even this man",

now i believe that is called speculation, you're saying "PROBABLY"!! Not only just spreading of false information about people, without EVIDENCE too!!

since its obvious knoweldge of wahhabism is lacking on this forum, brothers and sisters please readup on it. i'll provide some good sources of information about it.

http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/WAHABI.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1571144.stm

don't hesitate to look up more information on them.

Now as for the Sufi, i don't know too much about them myself, ive never met one i believe. And everything i know is from what ive read in books, never seen it for myself. But i do know they are not Sunni, not even close, Ive even seen some scholars compare actually compare them to buddhism more than anything.

"The Sufi mystic must follow a path of deprivation and meditation.  There are various forms of abstinence and poverty.  Worldly things are renounced and a complete trust in God's will is taught.  The goal is to attain to a higher knowledge and experience of Allah."

"Out of this mysticism a type of pantheism developed among some Sufi believers.  Pantheism is the teaching that God and the universe are one.  Of course, the orthodox Muslims, called the Sunni, reject this idea since they claim that Allah is the creator of the universe and distinct from it."

obviously that right there seperates them completely from any sunnah school of thought.

Thank you for taking the time to listen. Anything that i have said that is true and useful is from Allah (swt) and anything false which i have uttered is purely from myself.

Salam

[Slave_OF_AbuTalib(SA) 1]

(salam)

This debate not gonna happen right?

Sunnis stall alot, what you should do is bring a shia and let sunnis ask him questions!

Let him do a speech.  Then at the end, your speaker can ask the sunnis to bring there maulana/molby/mufti!

Anyhow, it is quite effective cos I think the ahmadis try it alot.  They get alot of sunnis converting.

We were once present in kingston uni.  We murdered him in a q&a.  he contradicted himself, and tried saying Umme Salama(as) had passed away in 2AH-nuzabillah.  While all shias know she was presnt well after Karbala!

Anyhow, all the sunnis bros were happy!  we just showed up the ahmadi man, and he was so humiliated!

Thats one time when sunnis were real happy with us.

Anyhow, sadly many shias have fallen prey to ahmadis.  Lust for their women or something!

Although they are wrong, they have effective methods!

Like salafis, salafis convert lots of non muslims and give lots of dawah!

Q7A is a way to go forward!

Ya Ali Madad

[Gypsy 3,166]

Br Slave of Abu Talib made a very good point.

best of luck for the organizers. Dont wait for the big event..even in a small gathering we should take this oppurtunity to teach ppl.

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

salaam

i think we need a meeting, if this debate is going to materialise.

AbulHasan, and others... would u be able to come to a meeting in order for this event to take place? please reply because at the moment im running short of avenues for funding.

wasalaam

[Muhammed Ali 3,807]

SA,

Yes, there are 4 schools of thought, they are:

Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali.

None of which belong either sufi's or wahhabi's.

In this forum the term 'wahhabi' is used as a fear-label. Just as the zionists use 'anti-semite' to label anyone or anything that could threaten anything of importance to them, without even evidence to back it up. first of all by your asking this question to me, it implies lack of knowledge about Sufi's, Wahhabi's AND Sunnah. So why let loose with this rhetoric and any person is just labeled a wahhabi, ive seen it used like this

"this guy is a wahhabi and also this man too, and probably even this man",

now i believe that is called speculation, you're saying "PROBABLY"!! Not only just spreading of false information about people, without EVIDENCE too!!

since its obvious knoweldge of wahhabism is lacking on this forum, brothers and sisters please readup on it. i'll provide some good sources of information about it.

http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/WAHABI.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1571144.stm

don't hesitate to look up more information on them.

Now as for the Sufi, i don't know too much about them myself, ive never met one i believe. And everything i know is from what ive read in books, never seen it for myself. But i do know they are not Sunni, not even close, Ive even seen some scholars compare actually compare them to buddhism more than anything.

"The Sufi mystic must follow a path of deprivation and meditation.  There are various forms of abstinence and poverty.  Worldly things are renounced and a complete trust in God's will is taught.  The goal is to attain to a higher knowledge and experience of Allah."

"Out of this mysticism a type of pantheism developed among some Sufi believers.  Pantheism is the teaching that God and the universe are one.  Of course, the orthodox Muslims, called the Sunni, reject this idea since they claim that Allah is the creator of the universe and distinct from it."

obviously that right there seperates them completely from any sunnah school of thought.

Thank you for taking the time to listen. Anything that i have said that is true and useful is from Allah (swt) and anything false which i have uttered is purely from myself.

Salam

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Hey all I can say is that some shia brethren put forward a challenge to ahlus sunnah. Many bragged about how sunni's were scared and no alim will turn up. The date set was 13 OCT 2002. That date has not even passed even yet! I have responded with Shaykh Abdul Qadir's acceptance for the debate and have been waiting for a while now. All of a sudden there is silence....

Where are all those who were bragging? Where are your egos now? You were all saying what? That no sunni alim will show? And so on......?

Well here's how it is, ahlus sunnah have accepted, our Shaykh is ready, my shia bretheren were so eager to mock ahlus sunnah, so I ask all those who mocked to eat their words and take back what they said. Where are all those who bragged? What have they done to back up their words with actions?

This isn't aimed at shias specifically, noudhobillah, as Ya Zahra has been very cooperative, only those who watched as spectators and wanted to put in every sentence they could to stir the pot, and yet when things have stalled on the shia side, where are these warriors of the deen now?

Mashallah, now we know who are truly looking to organise a fruitful debate, seems like the numbers have been reduced down to the 1's and 2's. No surprise I guess!

Anyway, I still have got no reply regarding Sayid Milani. Where does he reside at present?

Wasalaam.

[Guest YA ZAHRA]

Salaam

My intention is to organise a debate between Sunni and Shia, so that the general Muslim, be them Shia or Sunni will learn the arguments and benefit from the experience. Such a debate can not be organised alone and hence i need some co-operation.

Ayatollah Sayyid Fadhel Milani is the son of one of the great Shia Religious authority, he has reached the level of Ijtihad and resides in London. He speaks Arabic, Farsi and English, and teaches Islam at the highest levels.

Wasalaam

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaam alaikum WRB,

Thank you for responding. Please keep me informed of the four queries I reqeusted to be forwarded to Sayid Milani.

Wasalaam.

[Saleh Ali-Sufi 0]

SA,

Yes, there are 4 schools of thought, they are:

Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali.

None of which belong either sufi's or wahhabi's.

In this forum the term 'wahhabi' is used as a fear-label. Just as the zionists use 'anti-semite' to label anyone or anything that could threaten anything of importance to them, without even evidence to back it up. first of all by your asking this question to me, it implies lack of knowledge about Sufi's, Wahhabi's AND Sunnah. So why let loose with this rhetoric and any person is just labeled a wahhabi, ive seen it used like this

"this guy is a wahhabi and also this man too, and probably even this man",

now i believe that is called speculation, you're saying "PROBABLY"!! Not only just spreading of false information about people, without EVIDENCE too!!

since its obvious knoweldge of wahhabism is lacking on this forum, brothers and sisters please readup on it. i'll provide some good sources of information about it.

http://www.ahle-sunnat.org.uk/WAHABI.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1571144.stm

don't hesitate to look up more information on them.

Now as for the Sufi, i don't know too much about them myself, ive never met one i believe. And everything i know is from what ive read in books, never seen it for myself. But i do know they are not Sunni, not even close, Ive even seen some scholars compare actually compare them to buddhism more than anything.

"The Sufi mystic must follow a path of deprivation and meditation.  There are various forms of abstinence and poverty.  Worldly things are renounced and a complete trust in God's will is taught.  The goal is to attain to a higher knowledge and experience of Allah."

"Out of this mysticism a type of pantheism developed among some Sufi believers.  Pantheism is the teaching that God and the universe are one.  Of course, the orthodox Muslims, called the Sunni, reject this idea since they claim that Allah is the creator of the universe and distinct from it."

obviously that right there seperates them completely from any sunnah school of thought.

Thank you for taking the time to listen. Anything that i have said that is true and useful is from Allah (swt) and anything false which i have uttered is purely from myself.

Salam

[Saleh Ali-Sufi 0]

Now as for the Sufi, i don't know too much about them myself, ive never met one i believe. And everything i know is from what ive read in books, never seen it for myself. But i do know they are not Sunni, not even close, Ive even seen some scholars compare actually compare them to buddhism more than anything.

"The Sufi mystic must follow a path of deprivation and meditation.  There are various forms of abstinence and poverty.  Worldly things are renounced and a complete trust in God's will is taught.  The goal is to attain to a higher knowledge and experience of Allah."

"Out of this mysticism a type of pantheism developed among some Sufi believers.  Pantheism is the teaching that God and the universe are one.  Of course, the orthodox Muslims, called the Sunni, reject this idea since they claim that Allah is the creator of the universe and distinct from it."

obviously that right there seperates them completely from any sunnah school of thought.

Thank you for taking the time to listen. Anything that i have said that is true and useful is from Allah (swt) and anything false which i have uttered is purely from myself.

Salam

[Saleh Ali-Sufi 0]

THE METHODOLOGY OF THE TRUE SUFIS

The statements which comply with the laws of the Religion are the sound sayings, whereas the sayings which contradict the Religion are abhorrent and evil. With reference to Sufism, the sound saying which complies with the laws of the Religion is that Sufism is the methodology implemented by the true Sufis and is very much a part of the Religion. True Sufis are people who realize the importance of the Obligatory Knowledge of the Religion and endeavor to acquire it through proper channels, i.e., through trustworthy and knowledgeable teachers. They acquire the knowledge, then implement it and encourage others to do the same. Sufis are a people who follow the great Messenger, Muhammad, in a full manner by following his teachings and his example. They weigh things by the scale of the Religion. They do not deem lawful that which Allah ordained as unlawful, and they do not deem unlawful that which Allah ordained as lawful. They judge ugly what the laws of the Religion judge ugly, and they judge good what the laws of the Religion judge good. They do not indulge their appetites, and do so willingly. They go against the desires of their selves. They are a people who keep busy worshipping their Lord, fighting laziness and ignorance. They may work in the matters of this life, yet they do not have an interest in worldly acquisitions because the world has departed their hearts.

WHO ARE THE TRUE SUFIS?

True Sufis are those who follow the teachings of the Messenger of Allah, his companions, and their followers. They have attained the high ranks of righteousness and piety in Islam. The true Sufis from Ahl us-Sunnah are the best examples to follow. The leader and best example of them all was Prophet Muhammad r. He was the most knowledgeable creation of Allah--the best--and the one with the highest status. He was sent to teach the people the true Religion. He showed the path to guidance and the route to success in this world and the Hereafter. He had the best ethics, the best manners, and the most love for Allah. He encouraged and urged the people to acquire the Knowledge. After Prophet Muhammad, the greatest leaders of the true Sufis were the four caliphs: Abu Bakr, ^Umar, ^Uthman, and ^Aliyy. Abu Bakr as-Siddiq was the best of the humans after the prophets. After him, ^Umar Ibnul Khattab, then ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan, then ^Aliyy Ibn Abi Talib. They are the greatest Sufis of the nation of Prophet Muhammad. They were the most knowledgeable among the companions of the Prophet. They understood that the Knowledge of the Religion is the foundation for success and, in turn, urged and guided the people to acquire it. After these superior men, the great men of Sufism acquired the knowledge, highlighted its importance, taught it, ordered others with it, and spread it. Great men such as al-Jilaniyy, al-Awza^iyy, Abu Hanifah, Malik, ash-Shafi^iyy, Ahmad, Sufyan ath-Thawriyy, al-Junayd, al-Ash^ariyy, al-Maturidiyy, at-Tahawiyy, ar-Rifa^iyy, al-Ghajdawaniyy, and many others were great Sufis who adhered to the teachings of the Prophet. Another was Uways al-Qarniyy, whom the Prophet praised in his hadith:

In this hadith, the Prophet told us the best of the followers of the Companions was a man by the name of Uways Ibn ^Amir from the tribe of Qarn, a part of the tribe of Murad. He was known for his kindness to his mother. He had been inflicted with leprosy from which he was cured--except for a small spot. The Prophet ordered the companions, should they meet Uways al-Qarniyy, to ask him to make supplication to Allah to forgive them. This is what our Master ^Umar Ibnul Khattab did during his caliphate when some reinforcements from Yemen came to al-Madinah to support the Muslims in their battle with the blasphemers. The reinforcements had come to our Master ^Umar, in al-Madinah so that he would tell them where to go and what to do according to his battle strategy.

Our Master ^Umar inquired whether or not Uways was with them. When he found him he asked him, "Are you Uways, the son of ^Amir?" Uways said, "Yes." ^Umar asked him if he was good and kind to his mother and again Uways replied, "Yes." ^Umar asked him, "Were you inflicted with leprosy and cured except for a spot as small as one dirham?" He said, "Yes." Then our Master ^Umar, remembering the order of the Prophet, asked Uways to make supplication to Allah to forgive him. Out of his humbleness, Uways told ^Umar that Umar’s supplication would more likely be answered since ^Umar had recently returned from performing Hajj. However, ^Umar told Uways about the order of the Prophet, and Uways made supplication for him.

Uways was a very humble person. Some of the children used to think he was a crazy person because he was so poor and his clothing so old. Our Master ^Umar told him he would write to the ruler of the country where Uways was headed to list his name as one of those who would receive money from time to time, however, Uways did not accept--despite his very poor situation. Rather, he told ^Umar, "I prefer to be like other people."

In another hadith, the Prophet said:

which means: <>

Among the true Sufis are the waliyys--the highly righteous Muslims--who attained such a high level because of their adhering to the laws of the Religion and their following the Prophet in sincerity. They perform the obligations, refrain from all the prohibitions, and engage in performing many supererogatory acts of worship. They are the ones about whom Allah said in Surat Yunus, Ayah 62:

which means: [There is no fear on them and they will not be sad (on the Day of Judgment).] Those waliyys did not reach their high status by ignorance. It is known and unanimously agreed upon that Allah did not make any ignorant person a waliyy. All the waliyys of Allah are knowledgeable.

KARAMAHS OF THE WALIYYS

Moreover, Allah endowed the waliyys with karamahs. Karamahs are extra-ordinary actions which might occur to the waliyy, and are a sign he is truthfully following his prophet. A miracle, on the other hand, is the extra-ordinary event which occurs at the hand of a prophet as proof of his truthfulness. For example, when Prophet Musa threw his staff and it became a serpent, Pharaoh’s magicians knew what he did was not witchcraft and that Musa was a prophet. Another miracle occurred with Prophet Ibrahim when the people threw him in the blazing fire and neither his body nor his clothes burned. Many people witnessed the karamah of our Master, Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy, a great waliyy who lived about 800 years ago. Once when standing in front of the grave of the Prophet, Imam Ahmad asked that the Prophet put out his hand so he could kiss it. The Prophet did so in front of a large and great crowd of people. What happened to our master, Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy was a karamah, not a miracle, because although it was an extra-ordinary event, it occurred to one not claiming the status of prophethood.

Abu Muslim al-Khawlaniyy is an example of another great waliyy. He stood up against al-Aswad al-^Ansiyy, an evil man who falsely claimed the status of prophethood. When Abu Muslim al-Khawlaniyy refuted al-Aswad al-^Ansiyy, he tried to kill him to silence him. So, al-Aswad al-^Ansiyy set a blazing fire and tried three times to burn Abu Muslim in it. However, that fire did not burn Abu Muslim or his clothes--a karamah for Abu Muslim. Seeing this, al-Aswad decided to banish Abu Muslim from his land. Abu Muslim went to al-Madinah, the city of the Prophet, a place he had never been before. He was met at the borders of al-Madinah by ^Umar Ibnul Khattab. Although ^Umar had never before met Abu Muslim, Allah gave our Master ^Umar the knowledge of his story. ^Umar said, "Praise be to Allah Who made one of the members of the nation of the Prophet similar to Ibrahim al-Khalil"-- meaning that the fire did not burn Abu Muslim as the fire did not burn Prophet Ibrahim before him.

Many people have reported witnessing incidents of karamahs. One such incident occurred to our Master ^Umar Ibnul Khattab while he was giving a speech in al-Madinah. All of a sudden he called out, "O Sariyah, the mountain, the mountain." The people in the mosque did not understand what was going on. When ^Umar came down from the platform, they asked him about what had happened, but ^Umar refused to explain to them. All he said was, "A matter had occurred to me." Later, the soldiers of the Muslim army led by Sariyah told the people how they escaped falling into a trap the blasphemers had schemed for them, because they heard ^Umar’s voice calling, "O Sariyah, the mountain, the mountain." As a result, the Muslim army went to the mountain, escaped the trap, and defeated the blasphemers. This was a karamah for our Master ^Umar.

Our Master Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy used to give lessons that were attended by 100,000 people--all able to hear his lesson without modern-day microphones or any other instruments!!! It was reported a man could be working in his field, planting and plowing, and still be able to hear the lesson. Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy used to teach the people fiqh, tawhid, the Arabic language, the fundamentals of the Religion, and other knowledges.

Imam an-Nawawiyy was a waliyy and a great scholar who authored many works. Allah illuminated Imam an-Nawawiyy’s finger for him at night when the lantern was out of oil so he could see and continue writing about the Religion. This was a karamah for Imam an-Nawawiyy.

Our Master ^Abdul Qadir al-Jilaniyy used to give twelve lessons every day in the fiqh and tawhid. Once, when he was praying, he saw an illumination, and a voice addressed him saying, "O ^Abdul Qadir, I am your Lord, and I relieve you of all the obligations." He signaled by his hand, "Go away, you are the devil." The devil told him, "I have mislead 70 people before you by that, but your knowledge protected you." Al-Jilaniyy knew what he saw was the devil, because he knew Allah does not resemble His creations. What he saw came from a direction and as an illuminated body. It spoke with a sound and a letter and a language. He knew Allah is not an illuminated body, is clear of directions, and is clear of sounds, languages, and letters. Moreover, al-Jilaniyy knew even Prophet Muhammad was not relieved of the obligations, so why should one of less status be relieved of them?

These are the examples of the great waliyys, those who adhere in sincerity to the methodology of the Prophet, who perform the obedience and refrain from the sins, who perform many optional acts of worship, and who implement their knowledge. They are the true Sufis to whom Allah gives such powers.

THE TARIQAH

Among the true Sufis, you will find those who follow a tariqah, and sit in circles to remember Allah together. The tariqah is a good innovation in Islam. It falls under the permissibility in the Religion for the top scholars of the nation of Muhammad to innovate matters in the Religion which comply with the Qur’an, hadith, ijma^, and athar. Those scholars who innovate such innovations are greatly rewarded, as are those who practice their good innovations. Muslim narrated the Prophet said:

which means: <>

There are about 40 tariqahs--all of them are sound in principle and origin. Examples are: the Rifa^iyyah tariqah, the Qadiriyyah tariqah, the Naqshabandiyyah tariqah, the Shadhiliyyah tariqah, the Badawiyyah tariqah, among others. All of them were established and founded by great scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah in compliance with the Religion, i.e., in compliance with the Qur’an, hadith, ijma^, and athar. However, today there are many people who claim to be followers of a particular tariqah, yet have perverted and misapplied the original tariqah--thereby doing things contrary to the Religion. Although such people exist, they do not shake the foundation, the truthfulness, or the credibility of the tariqahs.

SAYINGS AND DOINGS OF SOME GREAT SUFIS

Those great Sufis and founders of tariqahs all taught that the proper methodology and the route to success in this life and the Hereafter is to follow the methodology and Sunnah of the Prophet.

Al-Junayd al-Baghdadiyy, who is the master of the path of the Sufis, said, "Our path is guided by and based on the Book of Allah, and the Sunnah of the Messenger." Shah Naqshaband, another great name among the great Sufis, said, "The correct way to our path is to follow the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam." Among the famous sayings of our Master Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy is: "The tariqah is the same as the laws of the Religion, and the laws of the Religion are the same as the tariqah." This means the tariqah applies the rules of the Religion, and the rules of the Religion order that which is practiced in a sound tariqah. Abul Hasan ash-Shadhiliyy, the founder of the Shadhiliyy tariqah, said, "If extraordinary matters happen with you that contradict the laws of the Religion, the Book of Allah, and/or the Sunnah of the Messenger, then definitely leave them out and follow the rules of the Religion."

Those great Sufis, founders of tariqahs, all advised their students to acquire the knowledge and implement it. Imam Ahmad ar-Rifa^iyy, the founder of the Rifa^iyyah tariqah, advised the Muslims at large to quote the sayings of Malik, Ahmad, ash-Shafi^iyy, and Abu Hanifah. This is to highlight the importance of learning the matters of the Religion through the great scholars of Islam, the scholars of the four most recognized schools of thought.

Al-Ghajdawaniyy, who set the foundation for the Naqshabandiyyah tariqah, wrote a letter to one of his students. In his letter he said,

I urge you to acquire the knowledge and the good manners and to be God-fearing. Follow the traces of the good scholars who lived during the first 300 years after the immigration of the Prophet and the scholars who followed their path after them. Adhere to Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jama^ah. Study the fiqh, [that is, the knowledge of the rules of the Religion]. Study the hadith, [the knowledge of the sayings of the Prophet]. Study tafsir, [the interpretation of the Qur’an], and beware and avoid those who are ignorant and claim to be Sufis.

The Prophet, did not indulge his appetite; He ate a little with the intention of supporting his body to be able to carry out Allah’s orders. It is known that an entire month would pass and the Prophet would not light a fire in his house to cook. Rather, he and his family would choose to eat dates and drink water. Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, at one time, was a very wealthy man. After he became Muslim he gave all of his money to help the Muslims and to support the propagation of Islam. After that, he was seen carrying merchandise on his shoulder to sell in order to earn a humble living for himself and his family. This is the situation of the Sufis. They are humble, not arrogant. They do not indulge their appetites or their selves. Even though they might be engaged in some worldly matters, it is for a religious reason, and their hearts are not attached to these matters.

Al-Junayd, the son of Muhammad al-Baghdadiyy, is known as the Master of the true Sufis. He lived during the beginning of the 4th Hijri century. He was a faqih. He was knowledgeable in the matters of the Religion. He was a scholar of hadith. Linguists, scholars of the language, and scholars of the Religion used to come to attend his circle to benefit from his knowledge. Among his sayings is: "We did not acquire this level of Sufism just by talking about it; but rather, we acquired it through spending the nights awake in prayer, experiencing hunger from fasting the days, and going against our worldly desires." This is, of course, after acquiring the knowledge and implementing it--all in sincerity to Allah.

Hence, Sufism is very much a part of the Religion of Islam. History is full of many great examples of true Sufis. It is only intelligent on our part to follow their example and beware of those who claim to be Sufis--yet spread falsehood and misguidance. Moreover, we must fulfill the obligation of ordering the lawful and forbidding the unlawful by warning the Muslims at large from those misguided people who cheat them in the matters of their Religion whether they claim to be Sufis or not.

[Muhammed Ali 3,807]

As-Salaam alaikum WRB,

Thank you for responding. Please keep me informed of the four queries I reqeusted to be forwarded to Sayid Milani.

Wasalaam.

[Slave_OF_AbuTalib(SA) 1]

Mashallah, Some brother acted on my advice!  He deserves so much.  Hey, if your listening, if u need help, just ask!

Ya Ali Madad

Ayat Milani to deliver lecture on Imam Ali (as)

By: Ya Zahra Haidari

QMUL Iraqi/ Ahlul-Bayt Society presents "Imam Ali Ibn'Abi Talib (as)" by Ayatollah Sayid Fadhil Milani

Friday 18th October 2002

4 - 6pm

Queen Mary & Westfield College Skeel Lecture Theatre

You are invited to attend a celebration of Imam Ali (as), a short lecture on his life, followed by a Q&A with Ayatollah Sayid Fadhil Milani to an audience of mixed schools of thought.

Dinner will be served.

Contact Ali on 07904 913 450 or email

Closest Underground Station: Mile End Turn left and keep walking. Cross the traffic lights and keep walking underneath the bridge. Walk past the Peugot showroom. Cross the road from the next traffic-light crossing. Walk left on the other side of the road, take the first opening on the right and follow the doors on your immediate left.

[145_turbo_16V 14]

(salam)

Please brother, can you or somebody video tape this event? I will gladly compensate for a copy of the tape and postage and other expenses incured.

Thank you very much.

[MALANG 0]

SAlamu Alekum Brothers and sistas.

I a, living in Norway. And have had some few debates with the sunnis and wahabis.  Actually I know, what the results will be. At last, they will not have any answer, than they will say: Shia kafar, and go home.

Actually, i HATE "Amir Muawyyah Radiallah Anh" to hell with him man! Dont the sunnis know that The Profet saw has said that

"Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the       sign of hypocrasy."

 

Sunni references:

- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;

- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;

Further Abu Huraira narrated:

    The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."

   

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

Now I will tell u why we hate Muawyyah. Its written in the sunni`s books that:  

"Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him:

    "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali."

Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Traditio#32.

"Ali Ibn Abi Talib (ra) was cursed on the pulpits (manabir) of the east and west...", during the time of Muawiyah.

Sunni reference: Mu'jam al-Buldan, al-Hamawi, v5, p38

Thats the reason of my my dont respekt Muawyyah. Inshallah further I will show my sunnibrother here some more references. Which will make them think some little about their believs.

Wassalam Mujahide Din

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum WRB,

Okay enough beating around the bush. To Ya Zahra:

Do you have some contact details where I can put one of Pir Abdul Qadir Jilani's asscociates in touch with you. This is so the debate can be organised DIRECTLY with you speaking to Pir Sahibs camp. Inshallah you have some phone contact details that I can pass on to them, as they live in London, same place where Sayid Milani lives and I guess you too. This way we can move quicker and actually get somewhere in organising this debate.

Oh yeh, Malang, dear brother or sister (also to all others whom may be concerned), unless you have something to contribute to organising this debate, I suggest you shut up and put up! and have something constructuve to say/do on this topic!

Wasalaam.

[Baatil Ka Kaatil 8]

(salam),

Hey Abul i agree. Enough beating around the bush.

Syed Fadhl Al Milani is well known. Has your sheikh accomplished anything that has benefitted Islam?

I'm not trying to insult him or anything. I'm just searching for some of this guys material and asking around. Apparently i can't find any.

We need a [u:post_uid0]good[/u:post_uid0] Sunni scholar to debate. Syed Milanis' time is precious and we have no time to waste.

contact Br Ya Zahra by E-Mail and give him this sheikhs details. He'll take it from there.

Wa'salaam

Asad Ali.

[AbulHassan 0]

As-Salaamu alaikum,

The contact no. for the masjid Pir Sahib is Imam of is:

020 8539 4282

That is the Walthamstow Forest Islamic Association - Jamia Masjid Ghosia.

Wasalaam.

[Guest Shujaat]

Assalamu Aleikum,

    I am a new member, could somebody tell me wheter the debate Shia/Sunni took place, and wheter it was taped?

And reply would be appreciated

[Slave_OF_AbuTalib(SA) 1]

No debate took place Shujaat bro!

[ya-ali-maula 4]

salaams

WHY???? it was sounding so interesting, surely something to look forward to?!