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almutalammis

Are you that prophet? - The scribes were asking john!

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Hello,Im new member and I would like to share you in this blessed forum.Those who came to ask John the baptiest  that the people of that time were expecting a prophet  was comming. John 1:19-25. `And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he con­fessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptisest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?' Who is tha prophet to come?

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John 1:19-25. `And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? And he con­fessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptisest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?' Who is tha prophet to come?

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Hello,It is clearly that three figures were ex­pected: the promised Messiah or Christ, Elias or Elijah, and `that prophet'. Although John in his modesty denied it, Jesus later stated that John was the expected Elias (Matthew 11:14). Jesus himself was the expected Messiah or Christ. Who then is the prophet to come?

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Hello,It is clearly that three figures were ex­pected: the promised Messiah or Christ, Elias or Elijah, and `that prophet'. Although John in his modesty denied it, Jesus later stated that John was the expected Elias (Matthew 11:14). Jesus himself was the expected Messiah or Christ. Who then is the prophet to come?

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Hello,Its ok your explaination was great but,we should continue in our discussion to be more closer to the truth.Three years ago and before the enternet ,I knew nothing about christianity but  I feel know something now through our muslim scholers such as Ahmad deedat.peace

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Hello, Actually that Prophet does not appear in the bible,so we have to lookfor him after the time of Jesus.According to the bible the prophets speak by the inspiration of the spirit of God.So we can expect any information about the promised prophet from Jesus himself.John 14:26. `But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remem­brance, whatsoever I have said unto you.' John 15:26. `But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".

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John 16:7-14. `Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgement, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.'

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So we can expect any information about the promised prophet from Jesus himself.John 14:26. `But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remem­brance, whatsoever I have said unto you.' John 15:26. `But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me".

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Have you read:

[b:post_uid0]Acts 3:19-24,26[/b:post_uid0]

Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Moses said, 'THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. [26] For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

[b:post_uid0]Luke 7:13-16[/b:post_uid0]

When the Lord saw her, He felt compassion for her, and said to her, "Do not weep." And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, "Young man, I say to you, arise!" The dead man sat up and began to speak. And Jesus gave him back to his mother. Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "[b:post_uid0]A great prophet has arisen among us![/b:post_uid0]" and, "God has visited His people!"

[b:post_uid0]Luke 7:20-23[/b:post_uid0]

When the men came to Him, they said, "John the Baptist has sent us to You, to ask, 'Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?' " At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind. And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. "Blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."

Luke 24:27

Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Regarding how many prophets were expected, you can see that "One was expected," and read Luke 9:7-9 where you will see that your reasoning is erred.

[b:post_uid0]Luke 9:7-9[/b:post_uid0]

Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was happening; and he was greatly perplexed, because it was said by some that John had risen from the dead, and by some that Elijah had appeared, and by others that one of the prophets of old had risen again. Herod said, "I myself had John beheaded; but who is this man about whom I hear such things?" And he kept trying to see Him.

As you can see, the people did not know anything about other prophets, but they assumed that there could be many. They said whatever came to mind; that some were old prophets re-incarnated; John the baptist re-incaranted, etc. But clearly there was only one expected, One Saviour, One Leader, One Anointed One, and One who will be raised from among His brethren.

[b:post_uid0]Q[/b:post_uid0]: Who do you say Jesus is?

a: HaMashiach ben David? (Messiah, lineage of David)

b: The prophet raised from among His people?

c: Both 'a' and 'b'?

Blessings!

Milton

Edited By Karaite on 1030382899

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Hi wayto go and karaite,

According to thoses versis in John,we see that the Spirit of God in the Bible narratives works not in a void but through human beings. This promise refers to a prophet who has ears and a mouth {John 16:13}. What do we learn from this prophecy of Jesus about the prophet to follow him? Muslim scholars have pointed out that the Greek word translated `Comforter' is much like the Greek for `Most Praised' or Ahmed, which is a form of the name Muhammad. This alternative is found in the Gospel of Barnabas and in some Syriac sources.

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One has to be careful about using ideas like words that sound like other words. Ex: If word A sounds like word B, then that must be connected to that word somehow. Has anyone ever read the book Black Athena?? It was written about 12 years ago and it threw the Classical Studies world upside down. It is a flawed book, however, and many of the cases it uses are the same as this. That some words sound like this word, therefore it MUST come from this word. Just a thought. This is a very good conversation.

~Michael

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Hi,

{John 16:7-14}First of all,, there is a three-part message. He will reprove the world of unbelief in Jesus Christ. He will bring a message of righteousness, that is a renewed regard for obedience to the commandments. He will emphasise the importance of the Day of Judgement. Secondly,Jesus says that there are many things to be said, but he cannot teach his hearers all of these things because they are not yet ready for them.

The inference is that the prophet to come will teach some new points of doctrine and practice that the people of Jesus' time were not ready to receive. These things probably have to do with the change of the direction of prayer and place of pilgrim­age from Jerusalem to another place, and other details that could not be accepted as long as the temple existed. Thirdly, the coming prophet would guide into all truth. That is, when his message is given, there will never be any need for another message, since with his revelation all truth which God intended to reveal will have been revealed.

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Fourthly, he will not speak using his own words. He will be verbally inspired. He will actually hear the message of God in spoken form from the angel and will recite verbally what he hears. He will thus be different from some prophets who received the inspired message and wrote it in their own words. Then,he will reveal future events and preach the things that Jesus himself taught.

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"Are you that prophet?" is a reference to Deuteronomy 18:15,18 and is by no means referring to Muhammad.

In Deuteronomy 18:15,18 YHWH tells Moses and Moses in turn, tells the children of Yisrael that a Prophet will be raised AMONG YISRAEL [not Mecca]. In other words, this Prophet would not be a gentile, the Prophet would be an Israelite. Also, the Prophet would be like Moses. An Intercessor, Mediator, Deliverer, etc.

The Jews misunderstood and thought that the Messiah is one person and the Prophet was another. But that is not the case, Yehoshua was the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:15,18 and those scriptures was pointing to the Messiah. Prophet was one of the Messiah's offices, while the other offices was Priest and King. "Prophet" does not reduse Yehoshua to a mere man. In Hebrews 1:1-2, it says that Yehoshua was superior to the prophets.

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almutalammis,

That is not what the context says in John 16:7-14.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you." [John 16:7 ]

First of all, Yehoshua has alread established Who the Comforter is,

"But the Comforter, WHICH IS The Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." [John 14:26]

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit which "shall teach you all things," Paul writes, "Which things we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." [1 Corinthians 2:13 ]

Going back to John 16:7, Yehoshua tells HIS disciples that it is expedient that HE goes away; if HE doesn't go away, the Holy Spirit won't come to them, but if HE leaves, HE will send the Holy Spirit to them and you will find that happened when you read Acts chapters 1-2, when Yehoshua ascends to the right hand of the throne of God, the apostles were in the upper room and heard a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and they were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. If you don't believe me, read Acts chapters 1 and 2.

"And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:of sin, because they believe not on Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father, and ye see Me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." [John 16:8-11]

The word "reprove" in the Greek is "elegcho" which means to convict. The word "conviction" embraces a number of biblical expressions in its meanings. Originally it derived from two Latin terms meaning "cause to see." The New Testament uses the terms "reproof, conviction, and illumination" to communicate the ministy of the Holy Spirit whereby HE causes the individual to "see" (understand) truth. When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, many who had no prior conviction of sin were convicted by the Holy Spirit, which led to their salvation [Acts 2:36-37]. This is one of the works of the Holy Spirit, to "reprove" [Greek: elegcho], to point out a fault or an error or to expose something as it really is [see John 3:20]. The Holy Spirit reproves concerning three topics.

1. Sin [verse 9] The Holy Spirit reveals the NEED of redemption. "Because they believe not on Me:" the greatest sin is unbelief [John 3:18; Mark 16:16], while the greatest work is belief [John 6:29].

2. Righteousness [verse10] The Holy Spirit reveals the POSSIBILITY of redemption. "Because I go to My Father:" Messiah goes to the Father after a righteous life, and a death that will impute this righteousness to others [see Isaiah 53:11; 2 Corinthians 5:21].

3. Judgement [verse 11] The Holy Spirit reveals the REALITY of redemption. "Because the prince of this world is judged:" the power of Messiah to judge ha-satan and to overthrow his kingdom is not future, but at the cross and the resurrection. "Is judged" [Greek: kekritai] means "has been judged" [see John 13:31]. The "prince of this world" is ha-satan [John 12:31; 14:30].

The Spirit of Truth in John 16:13-14 Yehoshua already confirmed that it is the Holy Spirit in John 14:16-17,26. In John 16:13-14, Yehoshua is saying that the Holy Spirit will reveal things to the disciples,

"But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what knoweth the things of man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." [2 Corinthians 2:10-11]

"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;" [Ephesians 3:5]

The Comforter Yehoshua is referring to is not Muhammad, it is the Holy Spirit that was given to the apostles on the Day of Pentecost.

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Deuteronomy18:15Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me; to him you shall listen; 18:16according to all that you desired of Yahweh your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Yahweh my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I not die. 18:17Yahweh said to me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18:18I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. Jesus or yasoo3 or Issa was not like moses, the parallel between both of them seems inconsistent, since Christians claim Jesus to be God and deny such status to Moses. If Jesus is God, he is definitely not like Moses and the passage cannot apply to him. If he is not God, then the Christian doctrine falls.

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salamon alikom

i justed wanted to ask  the christen do you believe that the prophat isaa :(as):  said that a prophat comes after him called ahmed.....do believe in that?

wasalam alikom

wanaslkom aldu'a

shia girl

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HI,IF WE SAID JESUS IS SON OF GOD,THAT MEANS WE REJECT JESUS TEACHING.WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE FIRST COMMANDMENT ,HE REPLIED WITH LOUD VOICE,HEAR O ISRAEL,THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD".HE IS NOT GOD OF PEOPLE ONLY BUT ALSO JESUS GOD.THE SHOULD HAVE TO SAID,THE LORD MY FATHER WHO BEGOTTEN ME  IS IM AND IM THE.....LAKHBATAH.IT WAS THE COMMANDMENT BEFORE ALL!

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Many Christians do not accept the Trinity. Many great scholars, from Sir Isaac Newton to Ben Franklyn rejected the trinity yet called themselves Christians. So to say that "you reject" the trinity because Jesus said he was son of God means you are rejecting a large population of Christians.

For 100's if not 1000's of years unitarians have argued that the trinity is false. Maybe you should pick up some papers written about this subject to shed some light. Papers written by Chrisitians for Christians on the rejection of Trinity.

Point being, merely not believing in the trinity does mean anything. It does not mean that we are denying what Christ said. Because according to unitarian scholars it's a misinteruption of Jesus' word.

So leave it at that.

Peace,

Dhulfiqar

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Hi,

What I believe is,the bible interprets its self.when the jews misunderstood him ,because he said "before Abraham was Im" they asked him aquistion for removing any doubts belongs to divinity of Jesus.Mark:what is the first commandment.hear o israel the lord our God is one lord.At this time ,the jews were expecting another answer,such as the lord your god is Im so,worship me[glory be to Allah].But,that did not happen,The scribe replied to him,you are right master,the lord our God is one lord and there is none other but he.mark12:34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

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Hi,

What I believe is,the bible interprets its self.when the jews misunderstood him ,because he said "before Abraham was Im" they asked him aquistion for removing any doubts belongs to divinity of Jesus.Mark:what is the first commandment.hear o israel the lord our God is one lord.At this time ,the jews were expecting another answer,such as the lord your god is Im so,worship me[glory be to Allah].But,that did not happen,The scribe replied to him,you are right master,the lord our God is one lord and there is none other but he.mark12:34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

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Hi ,YHWH_is_God,

Im quite sure that the comforter refers to our prophet Muhammad[pbuh].Jesus[pbuh] gave still more information about the comming prophet.In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus points out that `by their fruits ye shall know them.' This is generally thought to refer to actions, bad fruits being evil actions and good fruits good acts. Psalm 1:3 describes this prophet `who brings forth fruit in his season.' The book of Revelation suggests that the tree has twelve different fruits [Revelation 22:2]. It is very possible that Jesus is referring to the fact that the prophet to come should have twelve pure descendants or followers who would have authority and act as the final divine guides in their age. We can be sure of this only if we find a prominent contestant for the position of prophethood who actually had twelve such descendants or representatives. Peace

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The history of Muhammad is tragic. After the death of Muhammad many Muslims followed unjust and irreligious caliphs. The later caliphs changed the religion to suit themselves. This is recognised by both orientalists and Muslims alike. The family of the prophet's daughter was hounded, persecuted, poisoned and murdered by the so­called Muslim State. It is only a miracle that some knowledge of the eleven descendants of the daughter of Muhammad has come down to us. These pure, humble, persecuted people might well be compared to the twelve fruits of the good tree Jesus mentions in Matthew seven.

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Hi ,YHWH_is_God,

"Im quite sure that the comforter refers to our prophet Muhammad[pbuh]."

Your quite sure in your own interpretation that Yehoshua is referring to the prophet, when the context does not say that, the context of those scriptures is saying that it is the Holy Spirit.

Jesus[pbuh] gave still more information about the comming prophet.In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus points out that `by their fruits ye shall know them.' This is generally thought to refer to actions, bad fruits being evil actions and good fruits good acts."

In Matthew 7:15-20, Yehoshua teaches us how to identify true prophets from false prophets. Muhammad doesn't fit in with true prophets.

"Psalm 1:3 describes this prophet `who brings forth fruit in his season.'"

Psalm 1:3 has nothing to do with Muhammad.

"The book of Revelation suggests that the tree has twelve different fruits [Revelation 22:2]. It is very possible that Jesus is referring to the fact that the prophet to come should have twelve pure descendants or followers who would have authority and act as the final divine guides in their age. We can be sure of this only if we find a prominent contestant for the position of prophethood who actually had twelve such descendants or representatives. Peace"

Revelation 22:2, once again, has nothing to do with Muhammad, nor "twelve pure descendants or followers". Revelation chapter 22 is a prophetic chapter that goes along with the chapters before it, it tells of YHWH making a new heaven and a new earth where HIS people will live after the Great White Throne judgment in Revelation chapter 20. Let me ask you a question, during the time of Muhammad, was there a new heaven and a new earth? I seriously doubt that because the Messiah has not returned yet.

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O blessed time, when he shall come to the world!

Believe me that I have seen him and have done. him

reverence, even as every prophet has seen him: seeing

that of his spirit God gives to them prophecy. And

when I saw him my soul was filled with consolation,

saying: "O Muhammad;, God be with you, and may he make

me worthy to untie, your shoelatchet;, for obtaining

this I shall be a great prophet and holy one of God."

And having said this, Jesus rendered his thanks to

God.

{{ Barnabas}}

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O blessed time, when he shall come to the world!

Believe me that I have seen him and have done. him

reverence, even as every prophet has seen him: seeing

that of his spirit God gives to them prophecy. And

when I saw him my soul was filled with consolation,

saying: "O Muhammad;, God be with you, and may he make

me worthy to untie, your shoelatchet;, for obtaining

this I shall be a great prophet and holy one of God."

And having said this, Jesus rendered his thanks to

God.

{{ Barnabas}}

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O blessed time, when he shall come to the world!

Believe me that I have seen him and have done. him

reverence, even as every prophet has seen him: seeing

that of his spirit God gives to them prophecy. And

when I saw him my soul was filled with consolation,

saying: "O Muhammad;, God be with you, and may he make

me worthy to untie, your shoelatchet;, for obtaining

this I shall be a great prophet and holy one of God."

And having said this, Jesus rendered his thanks to

God.

{{ Barnabas}}

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Continuing what I was discussing about the "gospel" of barnabas.

On page 156, ch. 124: The "gospel" of Barnabas says that the zabur [book of Psalms] was given because of the corruption of the taurat [books of Moses], and the injil [New Covenant] was given because of the subsequent corruption of the zabur.

This line of reasoning is found nowhere in the quran. To the contrary, the books of the Bible are spoken of as light and guidance to mankind. Had he books of the Bible been corrupted, the quran wouldn't have contained the following statements:

"If only they had stoodfast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side." [surat-ul Maida 5:66]

"O ye who believe! Believe in God and His apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His apostle and the scripture which He sent to them before him. And who denieth God, His angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the Day of Judgment hath gone far, far astray." [surat-un Nisaa 4:136]

Surely if Allah is all-knowing, he would have known if the Bible was corrupted, if the Bible was corrupted, he would not have made such statements as quoted above.

On page 273, ch. 221: The "gospel" of barnabas has Yehoshua saying, "I died not." Though muslims deny the death of Yehoshua, the quran isn't clear on this issue and even gives stronger for the belief that Yehoshua did die, before being raised up to God, notice what the quran says,

"Behold! God said, 'O Jesus, I will take thee and raise thee to Myself.." [surat-u Ali-Imran 3:55]

The Arabic expression for "I will take thee" is "tawaffika" which means "I will cause you to die." This expression is used again in verse surat-ul maida 5:117 where Yehoshua says to God, "...when Thou didst take me up." Here again the Arabic literally means, "when you caused me to die."

There is another verse which indicates that Yehoshua died before being raised to God. Yehoshua is quoted as saying,

"So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life [again]!" [surat-u Maryam 19:33]

In "The Holy Qur'an/Translation and Commentary," Yusuf Ali in his footnote no. 2485 says, ".....those who believe that he [Jesus] never died should ponder over this verse."

To get around this issue many muslims teach that when Yehoshua returns to the earth, he will die at that time. However, such teaching is nowhere in the quran.

It is also important to note that nowhere in the "gospel" of barnabas does it ever mention John the Baptist who is called "Yahya" by muslims. In both the Bible and the quran, John the Baptist is a very prominent figure. He was the one commissioned to be the forerunner of the Messiah. John's primary mission was to confirm that Yehoshua is the Messiah, the "Anointed One" of God. It's clear now why the author of the "gospel" of barnabas completely omitted any reference of John the Baptist. In his attempt to make Muhammad the Messiah, he made the witness of the Messiah to be Yehoshua, thus eliminating any need for the mission of John the Baptist. By now it should be clear that all of this is contradictory to the teaching of the Bible and the quran.

3. Inaccuracy of Geography and History

On page 22, ch. 20 of the "gospel" of barnabas, it says, "....sailed to Nazareth on the Sea of Galilee."

Nazareth is located inland and isn't a seaport as indicated.

 On page 23, ch. 21, it says, "...went up to Capernaum."  

Capernaum isn't inland, but is a port city on the sea of Galilee.

On page 116, ch. 92, it says that Yehoshua went to mount Sinai, then drew nigh to the Jordan river. But mount Sinai is located on the Egyptian side of Yisrael, and the Jordan river on the Jordan side of Yisrael. These two locations are extremely far apart, not near to each other.

"How beautiful is the world in summertime, when all things bear fruit." [page 217, ch. 169]

This description may be true for places like Europe, but not so of Palestinian summers, where the ground is left dry and barren by the hot scorching sun.

"...and Pilate was governor in the priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas when Jesus was born." [page 4, ch. 3]

History records that Pontius Pilate didn't become governor until 26-27 A.D.

On page 11, ch. 12, the words, "ascend to the pinnacle" are more indicative of medieval 15-16th century of Europe when speeches were delivered from lofty balconies. This particular expression doesn't reflect the method of Palestinian Jews giving sermons from their synagogues.

The "gospel" of barnabas, on page 19, ch. 18, mentions the slaying of 10,000 prophets by the woman Jezebel. However, no such event is recorded either in the Bible nor in the pages of history.

On page 41, ch. 32, the "gospel" of barnabas mentions the idol of baal spreading throughout all the world. However, there has been no archeological evidence to support such a claim.

On page 82, ch. 65, the word, "Probatica" is used in reference to a pool. But this was a Greek name used for one of the entrances into Jerusalem called the "Sheep Gate."

The "gospel" of barnabas on page 115, ch. 91, makes reference of 600,000 Roman soldiers assembling in the small town of Mizpeh. Such an event is nowhere recorded in the annals of Rome, and appears to be sheer exaggeration.

On page 130, ch. 103: the words, "mariner" and "ship" aren't typical for Palestine during the time of Yehoshua and in the area he ministered. They are more indicative of places such as Spain or Italy of Medieval Europe.

Page 185, ch. 145, it mentions 17,000 Pharisees in the time of Elijah. However, the Pharisee sect came into existence in 200 B.C. during the Macabean Era. Elijah lived long before in 900 B.C., 700 years earlier.

On page 196, ch. 152, it refers to soldiers being rolled out like casks of wood when washed to refill with wine. But, wooden casks weren't typical of the times of Yehoshua. In that time and still today, wine skins were used, made of animal hide, not wood. Wooden wine casks reflect Medieval Europe from where they were exported to other parts of the world.

From all the evidence, it's clear that the "gospel" of barnabas doesn't have a divine origin. The evidence indicates that it's a forgery composed by someone most likely during the Middle Ages of Europe, probably someone of an Italian or Spanish background who resented the removal of Islam from Spain by the Christans, and thus attempted to present Muhammad superior to Yehoshua.

Anyone interested in finding out the truth about this false gospel should read:

The Gospel of Barnabas by Selim Abdul-Ahad and Ernest Hahn (Hyderabad, India: Henry Martyn Institute of Islamic Studies, 1985 ).

The Gospel of Barnabas: Its True Value by William Campbell (Rawalpinidi, Pakistan: Christian Study Center, 1989 )

Origins and Sources of the Gospel of Barnabas by John Gilchrist (Benoni, South Africa: Jesus to the Muslims, 1987)

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Salam,

Actually,I do not believe that Gospel of Barnabas is the right one but,it is more logical and very close to the truth more than the current fourth Gospels.When we offer an evidance belongs to prophecy of muhammad from the bible,you dont believe and another evidance from Gospel of barnabas,you also do not believe.How can we debate then!

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Salam,

Actually,I do not believe that Gospel of Barnabas is the right one but,it is more logical and very close to the truth more than the current fourth Gospels.When we offer an evidance belongs to prophecy of muhammad from the bible,you dont believe and another evidance from Gospel of barnabas,you also do not believe.How can we debate then!

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You did not understand what I said.I said the old and new testament are corrupted scriptures by the ancient priests and the one which is closer to logic and truth is Gospel of barnabas.If you do not believe me then try to interpret the two verses as follows:1 Chronicles 21:1And again the anger of the lord was kindled against israel,and he moved David against them to say go,number israel.1 Samuel 24-1`And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.I want you to tell me exactly who moved David to number Israel,The lord or Satan.Im quite sure this was an example that the bible is corrupted .Who lives in house of glass shall not threw others by stones.

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almutalammis,

Since you are backed into the corner because the gospel of Barnabas is proven false, you now resort to attack the Bible to keep up your defense. The scriptures you quoted do not contradict, it shows that you fail to understand how YHWH works in history.

It was toward the end of the reign of king David and he was looking back over his conquests, which had brought the Canaanite, Syrian, and Phoenician kingdoms into a state of vassalage and depencency on Yisrael. He had an attitude of pride and self-admiration for his achievements, and was thinking more in terms of armaments and troops than in terms of the mercies of YHWH.

YHWH therefore decided that it was time that king David be brought to his knees, where he would once again be cast back onto the mercies of God. So HE let David be ahead with his census, in order to find out just how much good it would do him, as the only thing this census would accomplish would be to inflate the national ego [intimated in Joab's warning against carrying out the census in 1 Chronicles 21:3 ]. As soon as the numbering was completed, YHWH intended to chasten the nation with a disastrous plague which would bring about an enormous loss of life.

So what about ha-satan? Why would he get himself involved in this affair if YHWH had already prompted king David to commit the folly he had in mind? His reasons were entirely malicious, knowing that a census would displease YHWH [1 Chronciles 21:7-8], and so he also incited king David to carry it through.

This is nothing new, for there are a number of other occurrences in the Bible where both YHWH and ha-satan were involved in soul-searching testings and trials:

1. In the book of Job chapters 1 and 2, we find a challenge to ha-satan from YHWH allowing ha-satan to bring upon Job his calamities. YHWH's purposes was to purify Job's faith and to strengthen his character by means of discipline through adveristy, whereas ha-satan's purpose was purely malicious, wishing Job as much harm as possible so that Job would curse YHWH to his face and renounce YHWH.

2. Similarily both YHWH and ha-satan are involved in the sufferings of persecuted Christians according to 1 Peter 4:19; 5:8. YHWH's purposes is to strengthen their faith and to enable them to share in the sufferings of Messiah in this life, that they may rejoice with HIM in the glories of heaven to come [1 Peter 4:13-14 ], whereas ha-satan's purpose is to "devour" them [1 Peter 5:8 ], to draw them into self-pity, bitterness, and down to his level.

3. Both YHWH and ha-satan allowed Yehoshuah the 3 temptations during his ministry on earth. YHWH's purpose for these temptations was for HIM to triumph completely over the very tempter who had lured the first Adam to his fall and be a Merciful and Faithful High Priest to HIS people,

"Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a Merciful and Faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted." [Hebrews 2:17-18]

"Seeing then that we have a Great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession: for we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." [Hebrews 4:14-16]

whereas ha-satan's purpose was to deflect the Saviour from HIS Messianic mission.

4. In the case of Peter's three denials of Yehoshuah in the court of the high priest, it was Yehoshuah HIMSELF Who points out the purposes of both parties involvement when HE says,

"Simon, Simon, satan [b:post_uid9]has asked[/b:post_uid9] to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." [Luke 22:31-32]

5. Finally, the crucifixion itself bears out yet another example where both YHWH and ha-satan are involved. Ha-satan exposed his purposes when he had the heart of Judah [Judas] filled with treachery and hate [John 13:27], causing him to betray Yehoshuah. YHWH's reasoning behind the crucifixion, however, was that Yehoshuah, the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world should give HIS life as a ransom for many, so that once again sinful man could relish in the relationship which is now eternal.

Thus we have 5 other examples where both YHWH and ha-satan were involved together though with entirely different motives. Ha-satan's motive in all the examples, including the census by king David was driven by malicious intent, while YHWH in all these cases showed an entirely different motive. HIS was a benevolent motive with a view to eventual victory, while simultaneously increasing the usefulness of the person tested. In every case ha-satan's success was limited and transcient; while in the end YHWH's purpose was well served furthering HIS cause substantially.

"And He shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of YHWH, and satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

And YHWH said unto satan, 'YHWH rebuke thee, O satan; even YHWH that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

And He answered and spake unto those that stood before Him, 'Take away the filthy garments from him.' And unto him He said, 'Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of garment.'" [Zechariah 3:1-4]

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, 'Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." [Revelation 12:7-10]

Edited By YHWH_is_God on 1032128762

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