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piesangboer

Can you trust the Qur'an at all?

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Hi my dear friends,

Prophet Moses was given the 10 Commandments. For you and me to obey.

Have you done that?

Let see if you have:

Let's look at one command at a time:

Keep the Sabbath day Holy.

Do you do that? On what day is your Sabbath?

For those who does not know the word Sabbath - day of rest...

Do you work 6 days and rest one day like God commanded?

God commanded people to do this.

What happened to the 10 commandments in the Qur'an?

Peace.

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Hi my dear friends,

Prophet Moses was given the 10 Commandments. For you and me to obey.

Have you done that?

Let see if you have:

Let's look at one command at a time:

Keep the Sabbath day Holy.

Do you do that? On what day is your Sabbath?

For those who does not know the word Sabbath - day of rest...

Do you work 6 days and rest one day like God commanded?

God commanded people to do this.

What happened to the 10 commandments in the Qur'an?

Peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was reading Deutoronomy, and I also came across the 1st Commandment (or second statement, if you are Jewish)...wondering if Christians have read this one.

"You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

One is required to believe in God and God alone. This prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities, gods, spirits or incarnations. To deny the uniqueness of God, is to deny all that is written in the Torah. (2)

It is also a prohibition against making or possessing objects that one or other may bow down to or serve such as crucifixes, and any forms of paintings or artistic representations of God. (3)

One must not bow down to or serve any being or object but God. (4)

One is prohibited from making sculpture of human beings even for the fine arts. (5)

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandme..._ten_statements

To Christians,

Do you worship God alone? or do you worship other dieties beside God?

Do you have pictures of (what you think is) Prophet Jesus (a.s.) in your home?

If you say that Prophet Jesus (a.s.) is not a diety besides God but God, then you are breaking the second part of the commandment by having pictures of him, by bowing to figures of the cross with Prophet Jesus (a.s.) on them, etc.

If you say that Prophet Jesus (a.s.) is not God, The Father, but a diety beside God (i.e., sits at the "right hand" of God), then you are breaking the first part of this commandment.

So which part of this commandment are you breaking?

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Yes, I can trust the Quran easily. There is only one version and it is still preserved in the original language of Arabic.

Exodus 20:3

"You shall have no other gods before me."

The commandments work in a domino effect. You can't pick and choose which ones to follow. And at least start following them from the begining.

But it is an interesting question. What happened to the Sabbath day in terms of Islamic doctrine? Do we even acknowledge a Sabbarth. Out of the 613 laws present in the Chrisitian Bible, and among the ten commandements, there are a lot similarites between our laws which are found in islamic doctrine, and the laws of the Judeao-Christian traditions.

I will ask a scholar on this and hopefully post the answer as soon as possible.

Take Care

Edited by Maryam_B;)

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Hello again,

Ok, I think I found the answer. Long, but consise.

http://www.jews-for-Allah.org/Jews-and-Mus...slamsabbath.htm

Sabbath according to Islam

Introduction

Jewish and Muslim Sabbath, the similarities, the differences and why.

Intention of the Sabbath (Hebrew; Day of Rest)

Is the Sabbath for Remembering God ? Yes, even more so than resting.

The Bible editors humanize God in relation to the Sabbath by saying;

"By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done" (Genesis 2:2).

Bible editors took the idea that God rested farther still when they wrote as follows: "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31: 17).

Is God a human that gets tired and needs to rest and refresh ? Of course not;

"GOD IS NOT A MAN, that he should lie ; NEITHER THE SON OF MAN that he should repent.... (Numbers 19:23)

God in the Quran clarified the matter in His own words when He declared:

"And verily we created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six periods, and naught of weariness touched us" (Quran 50:38 see also v. 15).

Dispelling any human weaknesses attributed to God and showing the intention of the Sabbath is not to rest, but to remember the beautiful Creation God made.

Even Prophet Jesus emphasizes the misinterpretation of the Sabbath;

Mark 3:1-5: Jesus observed the Sabbath, but criticized the Pharisees' overly strict rules and regulations concerning the day of rest. He emphasized throughout his ministry a different purpose for the Sabbath: a day to be enjoyed by the believer, and a time when many normal activities were quite permissible.

The idea that God rests like humans and gets refreshed like humans was also criticized by Jesus. According to John, he declared that God never stops working, even on the Sabbath day (see John 5:16).

According to the Holy Quran, the Final Testament, God does not get tired "Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes Him" (Quran 2:255), verifying the focus of the Sabbath is not rest, but remembrance.

What day was the Sabbath ?

Today we know that the creation process can be measured in billions of years.

The Bible editors could not have known this. In their eagerness to enjoin Sabbath observance on others they wrote that God rested on the very first Sabbath day after finishing up his work of creating the heavens and the earth.

The six days of creation in the book of Genesis was believed to be like six days of any seven-day week. They believed that the reason the Sabbath day became holy is that God Himself had rested on that day.

The scientific discovery regarding the actual time period of the creation of earth causes concern as to which day the Sabbath actually is. The Sabbath can not be associated with the earth creation because that would mean we would have a Sabbath once every 6 billion years.

The Holy Quran simply designates the "Day of Assembly" in addition to clarifying God does not rest, Hence completely dispelling the incompatible association between the Sabbath and Day of Creation as made in the Bible.

Was the Sabbath on Friday or Saturday ? Another tension in the Bible Corrected by God through the Holy Quran is knowing the exact day to practice the Sabbath.

When the Julian calendar was replaced by the Gregorian calendar in 1582 CE, ten days were deleted in order to bring the calendar in synchronism with the seasons. Thus, 1582-OCT-4 (a Thursday) was followed by 1582-OCT-15 (a Friday), indicating the Sabbath was originally Friday, rather than Saturday.

There is no record in the Bible showing who did this or when he did it. So, the present Jewish Sabbath observance can be traced back, through the discontinuity of 1582 CE into ancient times to an arbitrary choice of day by person or persons unknown.

There is thus no reason to believe that there was a seventh day of creation or that there was any continuous celebration of the Sabbath until the 10th century BCE. It is probable that some Jewish official made an arbitrary selection of the day for the first Sabbath about 3 millennia ago. As history shows the intended day for the Sabbath is Friday as in Islam.

What time was the Sabbath to take place ? The Bible demonstrates that the intended time is for the afternoon, also as in the Islamic teachings;

The Bible makes the strong distinction between day and night, the word "Night" is mentioned in the Jewish Bible ((233)) times yet it is never mentioned in conjunction with the weekly Sabbath,

The Sabbath is always referred to as "The Sabbath Day". In fact, a distinction is made between the Weekly Daytime Sabbath and a monthly 24 Hour Sabbath.

"It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict yourselves; on the ninth day of the month beginning at evening, from evening to evening shall you keep your sabbath." Leviticus 23:32

Hence clarifying there are different types of Sabbaths for different time periods and that the weekly Day Sabath was not intended for 24 hours, but rather for the Daytime as the clear distinction is made in Leviticus 23:32

Who was to follow the Sabbath ?

Israelites ask Muslims "If Abraham's way was the right way, why don't Muslims follow the Saturday Sabbath ?" The Sabbath has nothing to do with Abraham, it was instituted with the Law of Moses.

There is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever celebrated the Sabbath.

The first instruction from God to the Hebrew people to observe the Sabbath appears in Exodus 16:27, when the Hebrew people were wandering in the desert after having escaped from Egyptian captivity and starting to doubt and be disobedient to God. Therefore Hebrews have been worshipping God for centuries without observing the Sabbath.

The second command from God is seen in Exodus 23:12. Both passages were written by Moses circa 1491 BCE. No evidence the Sabbath was observed before then by previous Prophets.

Furthermore, there are 613 laws obligatory for Israelites, yet according to Judaism, not all Israelites have to follow these laws, for example, of those 613 Laws, only certain ones apply to certain tribes of Israelites, the Levi tribe only follows certain parts of the 613 Laws, as well as the Cohen tribe following different sets of the Commandments.

Different laws apply to different types and tribes of Jews. Similarly, Jewish Muslims follow the Quranic Commandments, identical to the Ten commandments of Moses, without the false associations made by Bible editors.

Sabbath in the Bible

Similar to the Muslim form of the Sabbath, the Bible lists a Function of the Sabbath is to have a Religious Assembly. Congregating on the Sabbath is commanded by God in Leviticus:

Leviticus 23:1-3 1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the people of Israel, The appointed feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim as holy convocations, my appointed feasts, are these. 3 Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings.

The Hebrew word for convocations is migra, meaning a calling (together), according to Young's Analytical Concordance. Migra is the Hebrew word used in Leviticus 23:4-44 for all the holy convocations commanded for the High Sabbaths also.

Another similarity is Leviticus 23:32, the Day of Atonement is defined as a Sabbath. Islam also believes that Friday is a day for attaining atonement more than any other day of the week:

The Holy Prophet Muhammad said : "The day of Friday has been exalted and conferred many rights. Therefore do not be negligent of your duty. Do not be tardy in your worship this day. Try to attain nearness to Allah by performing pure deeds and refraining from the prohibited things, because this day Allah increases the reward for good deeds and obliterates the sins. Allah raises the position of the believer in the world and the Hereafter."

Yet the Israelites considered the Sabbath a curse as pointed out in Amos 8:4-6 4

"Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?"

Israelites disobeying the Sabbath was also documented in Nehemiah 13:16

"Men of Tyre also, who lived in the city, brought in fish and all kinds of wares and sold them on the sabbath to the people of Judah, and in Jerusalem."

The Sabbath that was issued to the rebellious Hebrews with Moses became an unbearable restraint towards the Bounties of God to the Israelites, then they were forgiven.

Sabbath in the Quran

"O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew! " 62:09

The curse of financial confinement is forgivingly removed upon embracing Islam while the substance and content of the Sabbath is in place, the merciful removal of the restriction from God's bounty is specified in the following verse:

"And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah: and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper. " 62:10

An example in the Bible of God no longer desiring Israelis to follow the Sabbath is:

Isaiah 1:10-15

" Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of assemblies--I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood."

Here we see how God depending on the Actions of the Jews, changes His relationship with the Jews, similar to being exiled from Israel and being returned to Israel.

With this in mind, the Quran Sabbath is understood as a Merciful Sabbath. Though there is still a Punishment for Breaking the Sabbath.

"The punishment for profaning the Sabbath was imposed only on those who had differed about it and thy Lord will surely judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differed." Quran 16:124

The words penalty and punishment at the beginning of the verse are supplied by the translators, because they are implied in the word ju'ila. The meaning of the verse is that there is a punishment for Sabbath-breaking, but it is to be carried out on upon those who dispute the obligation to keep the Sabbath. Furthermore, it is concluded from this text, that no punishment for Sabbath-breaking is to be carried out before the Day of Judgment.

This is another excellent illustration of how the Quran complements and completes the Bible. In the Bible we are faced with two complications regarding Sabbath breaking. The first is that the punishment for Sabbath-breaking is death. In practice, this is not carried out in the current age. Christ showed by his example how the legislation of the Torah was to be interpreted. He did not as Christianity claims abrogate it.

The second Friction is that there is no provision for delaying the Sabbath. If there is something to prevent Sabbath observance on the seventh day, there is no provision in the Torah or any other Scripture for putting it off to the following day, as there is for the Passover, for example, which under certain conditions may be observed in the following month. This means that there are occasions when the intention to observe the Sabbath cannot always be carried out perfectly. If something arises which was unforeseen and unintended, the Sabbath cannot be delayed to the following day.

It has to remain as it is, whether or not its observance turned out to be as was intended. Therefore, the punishment is meted out upon those who dispute the obligation. Those who made the proper intention to observe the Sabbath, but whose observance for unforeseen reasons did not match their intention, are not punished for Sabbath-breaking.

Conclusion

Prior to scientific knowledge of earth formation, or scholarly Bible criticism, the Holy Quran in 632 AD, has purged the man made editing in the Bible and in swift concise Words, Bestowing upon us the proper date, time, and intention of the Sabbath as well as conscientious judgement for Sabbath breakers.

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I was reading Deutoronomy, and I also came across the 1st Commandment (or second statement, if you are Jewish)...wondering if Christians have read this one.

"You shall have no other gods besides Me...Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."

One is required to believe in God and God alone. This prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities, gods, spirits or incarnations. To deny the uniqueness of God, is to deny all that is written in the Torah.

The passages in Deuteronomy relate to the Hebrew people who were taken out of a pagan land where they began worshipping pagan gods. It's a lesson about the forging of a new nation where they once again worshipped the One true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

While many lessons are learned from the Book of Deuteronomy, we also know that it's an historical account about the new generation of Israelites before they entered the promised land.

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The passages in Deuteronomy relate to the Hebrew people who were taken out of a pagan land where they began worshipping pagan gods. It's a lesson about the forging of a new nation where they once again worshipped the One true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

While many lessons are learned from the Book of Deuteronomy, we also know that it's an historical account about the new generation of Israelites before they entered the promised land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the ten commandments do not apply to Christians?

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My friend. You still ducked away from my question to fool yourself. Have you kept the Sabbath day?

It's a good question, Piesangboer, because muslims don't keep the Sabbath day consistently. As a matter of fact, neither do many Jews. But I suspect that the response will come back with something to the effect that Gabriel did not include it in the Quran because Allah didn't want it there. The Islamic "ace in the hole" is that Quran corrects everything and anything, whether stated or not.

Of course, those who believe the Bible will say the same thing.

The way into the mulsim heart is through prayer and, if possible, friendship. That may be difficult because muslims are not to take Jews or Christians as friends.

Peace,

JB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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So the ten commandments do not apply to Christians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes it does. The commandment you quote is mentioned in the Gospels.

In Matthew 22:36-38 the Pharisees asked Jesus: "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.

Not as easy to do in today's society, which has taught us to be selfish and self serving instead of God serving, but simply explained. ;)

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Yes it does. The commandment you quote is mentioned in the Gospels.

In Matthew 22:36-38 the Pharisees asked Jesus: "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.

Not as easy to do in today's society, which has taught us to be selfish and self serving instead of God serving, but simply explained.  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

O.K., let me rephrase the question...Do the ten commandments as stated in the quoted passage in Deutoronomy apply to Christians?

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O.K., let me rephrase the question...Do the ten commandments as stated in the quoted passage in Deutoronomy apply to Christians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are inherent with being a Christian. Not stealing, killing, lying etc...

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O.K., let me rephrase the question...Do the ten commandments as stated in the quoted passage in Deutoronomy apply to Christians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Murder, stealing, adultery existed before the 10 Commandments were given to Moses. They are God's laws and apply to us all.

The Laws of Moses, which include also ceremonial and sacrificial laws don't apply to us. Those were for the Israelites.

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I watched a program on PBS that said that the Sunday observance came from a Roman leader who was trying to find a compromise between the pagan religion of the time and the newly increasing Christianity. Sunday was chosen because it was the day the pagans celebrated the sun god.

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About the ten commandments, they were given to a community a family of people...

were the first bible readers a family/community oriented people who considered themselves equal to each other under God...

were the first quaran readers a family/community oriented people who considered themselves equal to each other under God...

Are they today, or is every man out for himself in a world created with many people.

The Law was for people to live together first...

then with God for God loves together-ness

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Hello Myriam??,

Ok, I think I found the answer. Long, but concise.

So it's clear you haven't kept it,cause you needed to go and search for an answer.

Bible editors took the idea that God rested farther still when they wrote as follows: "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31: 17).

God rested not because He is tired,but to show you & me how it should be done.

Is God a human that gets tired and needs to rest and refresh ? Of course not;

Dispelling any human weaknesses attributed to God and showing the intention of the Sabbath is not to rest, but to remember the beautiful Creation God made.

O,so where did you get that from?

Even Prophet Jesus emphasizes the misinterpretation of the Sabbath;

Exactly. What did Jesus say about it? Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.(Jesus) O, I thought God is? It just shows you that Jesus and God is the same...

Mark 3:1-5: Jesus observed the Sabbath, but criticized the Pharisees' overly strict rules and regulations concerning the day of rest. He emphasized throughout his ministry a different purpose for the Sabbath: a day to be enjoyed by the believer
??,
and a time when many normal activities were quite permissible.??

The Pharisees, the religious people, cared so much about the rules,they forgot about God instead!

That is exactly why Jesus came. For the sinners and the religious people.To get them out of their stubborn ways and bondage and to show them life!

Because God is not even close to the sinners and the religious people, but to those who want to know him personally and have a relationship with Him.

The idea that God rests like humans and gets refreshed like humans was also criticized by Jesus. According to John, he declared that God never stops working, even on the Sabbath day (see John 5:16).

According to the Holy Qur'an, the Final Testament

[COLOR=red]

????? Jesus said:if any angel in heaven change even one of these letters,the pleis of this book will be on him! Even Gabriel!!!!

The six days of creation in the book of Genesis was believed to be like six days of any seven-day week. They believed that the reason the Sabbath day became holy is that God Himself had rested on that day.

Jip! That's right!

Was the Sabbath on Friday or Saturday ?

A Saturday...

Another tension in the Bible Corrected by God through the Holy Quran is knowing the exact day to practice the Sabbath.

O. So God made a mistake????

As history shows the intended day for the Sabbath is Friday as in Islam.

So have YOU ever worked on a Friday when you're not suppose to work?

The Holy
????
Prophet Muhammad said :

O,you say he was holy?meaning without sin??

Nope.Sorry...Only Jesus was Holy.

"O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew! " 62:09

So you do work on your Sabbath??God does not change.Your Qur'an is diluted from the original way Moses got it from God.

Conclusion: You are a Sabbath breaker & judgment is waiting upon you.

Ok. Let's go to the next commandment....

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O.K., let me rephrase the question...Do the ten commandments as stated in the quoted passage in Deutoronomy apply to Christians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My friend, for sure it applies to the Christians!!! = )

Jesus fullfilled the law for us because He know we can't keep it!

That is hwy Jesus said: I cam to set the captives free!

Free from all this laws & religiosity!! Free from SIN

The problem is we can't obey the sabbath and do sometimes sin. You as well.

But the difference is JESUS.

My sin has been paid for. Your's not.

Where does your sin go when you die???

or does it just dissapear?? =)

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^^so why was God mean in the first place?! what was the point?! If Jesus came to set u free doesn't that make him a seperate entity to the God that put the law!? :wacko:

It's a good question, Piesangboer, because muslims don't keep the Sabbath day consistently. As a matter of fact, neither do many Jews.  But I suspect that the response will come back with something to the effect that Gabriel did not include it in the Quran because Allah didn't want it there.  The Islamic "ace in the hole" is that Quran corrects everything and anything, whether stated or not. 

Of course, those who believe the Bible will say the same thing.

The way into the mulsim heart is through prayer and, if possible, friendship.  That may be difficult because muslims are not to take Jews or Christians as friends. 

Peace,JB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

16:123 And lastly, We have inspired thee, [O Muhammad, with this message:] "Follow the creed of Abraham, who turned away from all that is false, and was not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God;

124 [and know that the observance of] the Sabbath was ordained only for those who came to hold divergent views about him; but, verily, God will judge between them on Resurrection Day with regard to all on which they were wont to differ.

oh an btw the translation of the verse u refered to uses the phrase 'friends and protectors' or 'allies' ... this is a different issue and not on a personal level

5:82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Interesting again.

So we dont keep the Sabbath Law fair is fair.. However what about the Convant of Circumcision?

Genesis 17:10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised."

However the New Testament does not require it.

Eating of swine. Divorce Laws and so on and so forth.

As far as our sins.

"Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. " Holy Quran 39:53

Wasalam

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