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Guest Shia by nature

Christians converting to islam in Texas

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(bismillah)  (salam)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9...2289069&q=islam

Allah HU AKBAR! May Allah bless them with the love for Ahl Ul Bait!

Hello Shia. According to scritpure (Rom. 8:29,30), it is not possible for someone who is a Christian to become a non-Christian.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

God foreknew, before the world began, all those who would become Christians. These he guaranteed to be predestined and conformed to the likeness of Jesus. Having been foreknown and predestined, they are then guaranteed to be called, justified and glorified. How is it possible for the Christian to alter what God guarantees? There are several other verses that show a Christian cannot lose his Christianity, but I think Rom. 8:29,30 say it best.

OTOH, it is possible for someone to think or say he was a Christian and then become a Jew, muslim, hindu, etc. I assure you that this is the case with those in the video.

Peace,

JB

Ali

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(bismillah)  (salam)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9...2289069&q=islam

Allah HU AKBAR! May Allah bless them with the love for Ahl Ul Bait!

Ali

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(salam) to all,

What an interesting documentary. May Allah (s.w.a.) bless those courageous Americans who saw the truth and embraced it.

One of the questions asked was "What is holding back more Americans from becoming Muslim?" I would say that, apart from the obvious things, it is also because the mainstream version of Islam lacks some of the spiritual energy that most Christians are accoustomed to. The answer to this issue is for us Shia to try harder to educate Americans on the COMPLETE answer, which is the Quran AND love of the Ahly al'Bayt!

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Guest Shia by nature

(bismillah) (salam)

Hello Shia. According to scritpure (Rom. 8:29,30), it is not possible for someone who is a Christian to become a non-Christian.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

God foreknew, before the world began, all those who would become Christians. These he guaranteed to be predestined and conformed to the likeness of Jesus. Having been foreknown and predestined, they are then guaranteed to be called, justified and glorified. How is it possible for the Christian to alter what God guarantees? There are several other verses that show a Christian cannot lose his Christianity, but I think Rom. 8:29,30 say it best.

OTOH, it is possible for someone to think or say he was a Christian and then become a Jew, muslim, hindu, etc. I assure you that this is the case with those in the video.

Peace,

JB

Ali

Well according to the Bible, Jesus (as) is not GOD nor GOD's son.

Ali- May Allah swt guide you

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Well according to the Bible, Jesus (as) is not GOD nor GOD's son.

According to the Quran He is not. According to the Bible, He is the Son of God and One with the Father. :)

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subanallah

It's true about being regarded by both sides. There are people who still don't quite get it that my hubby is a White green eyed american muslim.

"No but where is your husband from?" "here"

"So your bosnian? "

"No I'm american too. "

"But whats your ancestory?"

"I guess if you go back far enough it's french and scottish :P "

I wonder if those of us in Louisana,mississppi,and arkansa should volunteer ,I know there's at least 20 or so. We have lawyers , senate judge, homemakers, doctors.

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Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

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^^ Written over 600BC to the children of Israel.

John 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus will be the One to determine who has everlasting life.

1John 2:22-24

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.

:)

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Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Jesus said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." (Rev. 22:13)

"For today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." (Luke 2:11)

Jesus is the God/man Savior, the first and the last.

Peace,

JB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Hello Shia.  According to scritpure (Rom. 8:29,30), it is not possible for someone who is a Christian to become a non-Christian.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

God foreknew, before the world began, all those who would become Christians. These he guaranteed to be predestined and conformed to the likeness of Jesus.  Having been foreknown and predestined, they are then guaranteed to be called, justified and glorified.  How is it possible for the Christian to alter what God guarantees? There are several other verses that show a Christian cannot lose his Christianity, but I think Rom. 8:29,30 say it best.

OTOH, it is possible for someone to think or say he was a Christian and then become a Jew, muslim, hindu, etc.  I assure you that this is the case with those in the video.

Peace,

JB

Ali

Predestined?!?!

There is a vast, chasm of a difference between pre-knowledge and predestination. Predestination means those who will be "saved" are chosen in advance, and that those who are not predestined are punished for eternity for something that was not within their choice. Wow. How loving...

Edited by kadhim

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I read this passage differently. The Message Bible explains it well:

God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun.

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I read this passage differently. The Message Bible explains it well:

God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So as usual, Daystar is totally inept when it comes to reading the Bible.

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Ephesians 1:4, God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Romans 8:33, Who shall bring any charge against the Lord's elect.

Revelations 13:8, And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

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1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

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(salam) to all,

Oh dear! Why all the fuss from our Christians brothers and sisters?

Don't worry, there's still plenty of Christians, and very few Muslims in Texas (for now!). Also, why do ya'll feel such a need to respond? It's a free country, isn't it?

These people have obviously freely choosen their path, and are willing to suffer many hardships along this path. Why comment on it if you can't add anything new or valuable to the discussion?

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Predestined?!?!There is a vast, chasm of a difference between pre-knowledge and predestination.

Of course there is, but both still apply.

Predestination means those who will be "saved" are chosen in advance, and that those who are not predestined are punished for eternity for something that was not within their choice.

You have a choice, but your pride will not permit you to make the one that will set you free. You would rather curse the God of scripture for allowing you, like everyone, to be born with something that wasn't your fault, yet you have the ability to overcome by making the right choice. "Before destruction, goes a man's pride." (Prov. 16:18).

You have free will and, like everyone, can choose to repent of your sins and turn to Christ for the remission of them. Why focus on the negative when there is a positive that can result in eternal life?

Wow.  How loving...

Is Allah any different? Didn't he know before the foundation of the world who would submit to him? Wouldn't they be chosen in the same sense? And did he not know those who would not submit? Why should anyone fault Allah for punishing someone who only needed to repent and submit to him to avoid eternal punishment?

Someone could be loving, caring, compassionate, do nice things for people and still be under Allah's punishment for not submitting to him. How loving is that? The big difference between Christianity and Islam are the terms of submission.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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(salam)  to all,
These people have obviously freely choosen their path, and are willing to suffer many hardships along this path. Why comment on it if you can't add anything new or valuable to the discussion?

Yes, Ali, they have chosen their own path. But what you are not understanding is that they didn't choose the right path to begin with.

"A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, bu thte foolish man's heart directs him to the left." (Prov. 10:2)

These Texans, described in the movie in one place as "conservative Americans, only thought they had been converted to Christ. We have shown you by key verses of scripture that it is impossible for a Christian to lose his Christianity.

Peace,

JB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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The big difference between Christianity and Islam are the terms of submission.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very true and profound.

Christianity is submission to an illogical proposition (Jesus (a.s.) the "God/Man", God must kill himself to forgive us (astafriAllah), etc. ) based on blind faith.

Islam is submission to God alone, the One, True Creator and Sustainer who is acknowledged by every major religion (except Buddism) that exists today.

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(salam)

My belive in one God is that he dont look or have enything materials than his creatures. To use logic, please...tell me one thing. Who create God and do he has any materials parts when he was created? (Astagfurullah) Because those who have materials are God creatures and God who have never born is not materials. He is the create of materials.

Alhamdulillah, Im so happy that those people have open their heart for islam. :wub:

Edited by Zufa

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Muslims... In TEXAS NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

:lol:

Thats impossible :Hijabi: --- Sike..I met a sunni Mexican-Arab Muslim the other day and there is a mosque just down the street from my job ;) So no, it isn't impossible.

:D

She invited me to the mosque, its cause she liked me though :blush: :sick:

Edited by HolyHolyHoly

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So as usual, Daystar is totally inept when it comes to reading the Bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all..

That's why there are so many denominations. We all accept the Bible as the authority on which we base our beliefs but we have different beliefs, especially relating to points such as this one.

Some Christian denominations believe in the Eternal Security doctrine (once saved, always saved). Daystar might be one of those while I'm not. Accusing him of being inept when reading the Bible is just being nasty.

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You have a choice, but your pride will not permit you to make the one that will set you free.  You would rather curse the God of scripture for allowing you, like everyone, to be born with something that wasn't your fault, yet you have the ability to overcome by making the right choice.  "Before destruction, goes a man's pride." (Prov. 16:18).

This is why you are no good at discussions with those who disagree with you. I don't reject your religion because of "pride" don't be so arrogant and self-righteous. I reject it because I find another path superior and more rational. I think you should accept that many people, a lot of whom have looked at the same information as you, and usually very much more, and reach a different conclusion. Now, to fit your mental model of the world, that means you have to label me as "prideful" or "knowing but rejecting the truth" to fit me in in a pre-existing box. As you wish; whatever world you want between your ears.

Is Allah any different? Didn't he know before the foundation of the world who would submit to him?  Wouldn't they be chosen in the same sense? And did he not know those who would not submit?  Why should anyone fault Allah for punishing someone who only needed to repent and submit to him to avoid eternal punishment?

Preknowledge is one thing. Predestination is another thing altogether. Perhaps you are simply not very good at choosing your words, but predestination means that the result is fixed in advance, that there is no choice. That means some people are determined to be christians ahead of time, others determined to be "infidels" (That term is a Christian invention by the way). And then people are punished or rewarded for soemthing that was decided for them. If you mean something else, then you'll have to be more careful with your words.

Someone could be loving, caring, compassionate, do nice things for people and still be under Allah's punishment for not submitting to him. How loving is that?  The big difference between Christianity and Islam are the terms of submission.

I'm sorry that you think making a positive difference to those around you through helping them and through moral action is such a terrible impossible burden for you. For most human beings, it's not.

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Of course there is, but both still apply.

You have a choice, but your pride will not permit you to make the one that will set you free. You would rather curse the God of scripture for allowing you, like everyone, to be born with something that wasn't your fault, yet you have the ability to overcome by making the right choice. "Before destruction, goes a man's pride." (Prov. 16:18).

You have free will and, like everyone, can choose to repent of your sins and turn to Christ for the remission of them. Why focus on the negative when there is a positive that can result in eternal life?

Is Allah any different? Didn't he know before the foundation of the world who would submit to him? Wouldn't they be chosen in the same sense? And did he not know those who would not submit? Why should anyone fault Allah for punishing someone who only needed to repent and submit to him to avoid eternal punishment?

Someone could be loving, caring, compassionate, do nice things for people and still be under Allah's punishment for not submitting to him. How loving is that? The big difference between Christianity and Islam are the terms of submission.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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If a Christian believes in God and does what He wants, then he is submitting. What's the big deal about submitting to God? All religious people do it. I don't understand why some people give the phrase 'submission to God' to have a bad connotation

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the more I talk with non Christains, the more I understand predestination...

them that have ears let them listen..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more I hear from certain Evangelical Protestant Christians on the site the bigger my smile gets thinking about the expression on their faces when they actually meet Propehet Jesus (a.s.)...They're in for a BIG SURPRISE! :o

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The more I hear from certain Evangelical Protestant Christians on the site the bigger my smile gets thinking about the expression on their faces when they actually meet Propehet Jesus (a.s.)...They're in for a BIG SURPRISE!  :o

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ali Zaki, do you know how arrogant you sound? You need to get off your high horse and realize that, just like the rest of us, you, too, don't have all the answers and neither do you know everything - shock, horror, gasp!

You make a point of picking on Evangelicals whenever you get the opportunity. Who exactly have you pigeonholed in this category because as far as I'm aware, I'm probably the only Evangelical on this site.

Do you even know the difference between Catholics, Orthodoxy, mainstream Christians, fundamentalists and evangelicals?

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I think all of you have a skewed understanding of what Christians believe ;)

I think I have explained this to SmileyNatalie once before, a REAL Christian will never lose his salvation because the scriptures dictate that the eternal security of a believer is well eternal.

The Bible first teaches that we are fallen creatures.

Second it teaches that we are in need of salvation

Third it teaches that if someone has experienced the life changing mercy of Christ they are no longer old but new a new creation

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

If something is a new creation, then none can revert to there old self, or old creation.

First Christians have to realize that salvation is a free gift

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Works play absolutely no part in your salvation

5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. Romans 4:5

Salvation is received by fatih, and nothing else

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2:8-9

Once saved we are to live a holy life

7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.

1 Thess 4:7

If you are completely sincere, and a REAL believer than you will never abandon faith in Christ and choose a sinful life ;)

Hebrews 13:5

5Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,

"Never will I leave you;

John 10:27,28

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

never will I forsake you."[a]

1 John 2:19

19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

So yes a Christian will always remain a Christian, but someone who says they are a "Christian" doesn't make them one

Matthew 7:21

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I guess that I am both Christian and Muslim. Does anyone here have a problem with that? I don't.

smiley,

A Chrsitian is a follower of the risen Christ ;) Sorry.

Edited by HolyHolyHoly

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Holy,  :mad: who are you to judge whether I follow Christ?

I follow the teachings of Jesus (as) to the best of my knowledge and ability.  "Judge not, lest by the same standards with which you judge, you yourself may be judged."

Just because I don't follow the teachings of Paul anymore, you doubt my sincerity ever?  WTH?!  I know it is inconceiveable to most Christians that a person could turn away from assured salvation, but some of us prefer TRUTH and CLEAR REASONING over the easy way!  Believe me, I struggled with my conversion, especially in light of the fact that the Quran clearly states that Christians and Jews are also to be judged as believers, so even with the conclusion that Quran was truth, I could have justified taking the easy way.

I became Muslim because I read the Quran and could find no fault in it, and determined it to be truth.  That does not change my relationship with my Creator, nor my love for his "son" Jesus (as)!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

calm done smiley Holy is tell telling you what the bible says if you have a proble with that take it up with God not holy. of coure it doesn't change you relation ship with god because it nevere realy existedand if it did then you will return back to him. Holy is only telling you what the bible says

you cant he bouth christian and muslim.

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

You there follow the Jesus or Mohammad,

The Bible or the quran

hope this helps

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The more I hear from certain Evangelical Protestant Christians on the site the bigger my smile gets thinking about the expression on their faces when they actually meet Propehet Jesus (a.s.)...They're in for a BIG SURPRISE!  :o

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Indeed there will be a surprise, but it shall be for you when;

a) He doesn't come back BEHIND the Mahdi, to establish Islam accross the globe

B) He doesn't destroy all the crosses

c) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…

However, unlike you, I won't be getting a big smile from seeying the look on the faces of Muslims, because I will be sad for them. This is the difference between the teachings of Christ, and the teachings of others.

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Holy,  who are you to judge whether I follow Christ?

I follow the teachings of Jesus  to the best of my knowledge and ability. "Judge not, lest by the same standards with which you judge, you yourself may be judged."

Just because I don't follow the teachings of Paul anymore, you doubt my sincerity ever? WTH?! I know it is inconceiveable to most Christians that a person could turn away from assured salvation, but some of us prefer TRUTH and CLEAR REASONING over the easy way! Believe me, I struggled with my conversion, especially in light of the fact that the Quran clearly states that Christians and Jews are also to be judged as believers, so even with the conclusion that Quran was truth, I could have justified taking the easy way.

I became Muslim because I read the Quran and could find no fault in it, and determined it to be truth. That does not change my relationship with my Creator, nor my love for his "son" Jesus !

I was simply saying you can't be boht, and you don't follow teh risen christ

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