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Christians converting to islam in Texas

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This is why you are no good at discussions with those who disagree with you. I don't reject your religion because of "pride" don't be so arrogant and self-righteous.

Christ is not a religion. You are rejecting the one who can set you free from your sins. To think you can do any other thing to find favor with God, is prideful, especiallly when you have been shown much light.

I reject it because I find another path superior and more rational. I think you should accept that many people, a lot of whom have looked at the same information as you, and usually very much more, and reach a different conclusion.

How can you look at all the things Jesus said and not conclude that everyone is a sinner and that only he can forgive you? This is not even an interpretation issue. It is plain and clear that even young children are able to understand it. Jesus even said that unless you become like them you will not inherit eternal life.

"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 14:11).

"Pride goes Before destruction." (Prov. 16:18)

The opposite of humble is pride. It was this sin that got satan booted out of heaven and all his children bear it, yet in different ways to varying degrees. With God, there's no difference between a little pride and alot. Sin is sin. One who thinks his observance of religious duty, good works, rituals, prayer beads, etc. will bring him to God, is prideful because he is trusting in performance, rather than the One who died and rose from the dead to save him. Muslims say they love Jesus, but they don't because they don't obey him, believe he is the Son of God, or that he died for their sins. They call him a liar. How can they love him? Their pride won't allow it and they are blinded to who he is and what he did. Pride goes before destruction. If you don't believe Jesus, then believe Solomon.

Now, to fit your mental model of the world, that means you have to label me as "prideful" or "knowing but rejecting the truth" to fit me in in a pre-existing box. As you wish; whatever world you want between your ears.

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful PRIDE of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world." (1 John 2:16)

There is another pride that will destroy a man. It's more subtle than the pride that says I don't need the blood of Jesus Christ to take away my sins. It is a priority and devotion to his accomplishments and the things that he has which are of the world, and which is perishing.

Preknowledge is one thing. Predestination is another thing altogether.

Yes, I agreed with that, yet they are linked.

Perhaps you are simply not very good at choosing your words, but predestination means that the result is fixed in advance, that there is no choice.

Although it is fixed, the one predestined to be conformed to Christ must and will make that choice at the appointed time which God knows. In scripture, predestination is not a word that applies to the lost. It is always to the saved.

That means some people are determined to be christians ahead of time, others determined to be "infidels" (That term is a Christian invention by the way).

Yet, God predestines none to hell, even though it is foreknown.

And then people are punished or rewarded for something that was decided for them.

I will grant you that the foreknowledge/predestination issue is not an easy one and scholars on both sides of the issue debate it. It is probably on the level with the Trinity when it comes to fully understanding it. I recommend the following which may provide you with more insights:

http://www.1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/calvin_FEP.html

In the meantime, you don't know if you were NOT predestined to be conformed to the likeness of Christ. Just because you think you're locked into Islam is no indication whatsoever that you may be foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified (Rom. 8:29,30). The Apostle Paul, before his conversion, figured hell would freeze over before he would ever become a Christan. Shocker of shockers! The great antichrist of his day is blinded by the light on the way to Damascus. Compared to him, you're a "piece of cake." The only way you will ever know is to repent, turn to Christ, believe he died for you. If you don't, you will be lost, and it will be your pride that separated you from God.

If you mean something else, then you'll have to be more careful with your words.I'm sorry that you think making a positive difference to those around you through helping them and through moral action is such a terrible impossible burden for you. For most human beings, it's not.

Check out that web site. I think it will be helpful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I have only one master, and that is my Most Gracious, Most Merciful Creator. Neither Jesus nor Mohammad is my master, but both are my role models and teachers. My point is that you can’t follow both Mohammed and Jesus because they contradict each other you chose follow Jesus or Mohammed not both.

Exactly why Islam is so appealing. Christian doctrine teaches that only Christians are eligible for entry into heaven.  This is counter to the belief that God is merciful, loving, and just.  According to Islam, the true followers of Jesus will also be admitted to paradise on judgement day.  Why would their faces show anything other than surprise and joy?  You assume bad things because you are stuck in the doctrine you have been indoctrinated in.

So getting Joy out of some one going to hell is a Good thing?

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The bible says that only those how have faith in Jesus will be saved. How is this not merciful, loving, and just? If God where not to have sent Jesus to die for our sin then we would all be going to hell because we all disserve it. So again how’s this not Just and loving and merciful?

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Exactly why Islam is so appealing. Christian doctrine teaches that only Christians are eligible for entry into heaven. This is counter to the belief that God is merciful, loving, and just. According to Islam, the true followers of Jesus will also be admitted to paradise on judgement day. Why would their faces show anything other than surprise and joy? You assume bad things because you are stuck in the doctrine you have been indoctrinated in.

Incorrect. Counter to the belief that God is merciful loving and just is that God has no law and is an immoral creature who has no standard for love or is just. This all inclusive God which you are painting isn't the God of Islam. The God of Islam is as intolerant as the God of the Bible. Truth by nature is intolerant of anything false. The charge of intolerance isn't a valid one. You are being intolerant for making the claim yourself.

So no. Islam may appeal to peopel because it includes all those who fall under the fold of Abraham, but don't I commit one of the most atrocious acts in Islam? Shirk! :o

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How can you look at all the things Jesus said and not conclude that everyone is a sinner and that only he can forgive you?  This is not even an interpretation issue. It is  plain and clear that even young children are able to understand it. Jesus even said that unless you become like them you will not inherit eternal life.

There are tonnes of Muslims here who are clear evidence that it is NOT plain and clear. It is clear for you because you are a Christian, and you have been raised to interpret things in a certain way. You are too close to see anything else. I, and others, have stepped outside to gain perspective, and seen quite a different picture emerge, plainly, clearly, and naturally from the texts. A picture that says Jesus (as) was NOT what you claim him to be. You have your belief, and you cling tightly to it, and I have some idea why you do. It provides, simple, black and white answers to your questions. I respect that, but based on what I know, I cannot agree. I think you should accept that people look at the same evidence you do and come to different conclusions. Because, frankly, your way of calling people to your faith is not effective. I say this with love.

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Exactly why Islam is so appealing. Christian doctrine teaches that only Christians are eligible for entry into heaven.  This is counter to the belief that God is merciful, loving, and just.  According to Islam, the true followers of Jesus will also be admitted to paradise on judgement day.  Why would their faces show anything other than surprise and joy?  You assume bad things because you are stuck in the doctrine you have been indoctrinated in.

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Sis, when you say the true followers of Jesus (as), do you mean the Christians or are you referring to the Muwahideen who followed Prophet Isa (as) before the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ?

My point is that you can’t follow both Mohammed and Jesus because they contradict each other you chose follow Jesus or Mohammed not both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correction: Christianity and Islam contradict each other. According to Islam, Jesus and Muhammad did not contradict eachother . They both came down with the same message "LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH". So according to Islam if you accept Muhammad (pbuh) but you reject Jesus (as), then you are not a Muslim.

Wasalam.

Edited by Muwahida

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Ali Zaki, do you know how arrogant you sound? You need to get off your high horse and realize that, just like the rest of us, you, too, don't have all the answers and neither do you know everything - shock, horror, gasp!

You make a point of picking on Evangelicals whenever you get the opportunity. Who exactly have you pigeonholed in this category because as far as I'm aware, I'm probably the only Evangelical on this site.

Do you even know the difference between Catholics, Orthodoxy, mainstream Christians, fundamentalists and evangelicals?

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Hi way2go,

You would be correct if I took any credit for becoming a Muslims...I don't.

Allah (s.w.a.) guides whomever he wills to the straight path. I do not deserve the blessings I have received from Allah (s.w.a.) in guiding me. I do not consider that I am (ultimately) saved and you are not. As such, I do not consider myself in a better position then you, either in this world in the next. Only time will tell our ultimate fate.

I do, however, feel compeled to acknowledge the truth when I see it and not let my fear (of the unknown) prevent me from action. If that is arogance, then I guess I am arrogant.

You are not the only evengelical on who regularly participates on this forum. I would estimate that approximately 50% of the Christians who regularly participate are Evangelicals, in he sense that there primarly goal in coming here is to "Save" us.

I have studied the beliefs of the MAJOR Christians sects. Of course, I don't have any knowledge other the what Allah (s.w.a.) allows me to have. I did not come up with any of the answers myself, but I do know how to copy from the answer sheet (the Quran and reliable Sunnah).

Peace,

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I do not consider that I am (ultimately) saved and you are not. As such, I do not consider myself in a better position then you, either in this world in the next. Only time will tell our ultimate fate.

Oh but you do believe you are in a better position than we are. Consider your comment, "the bigger my smile gets thinking about the expression on their faces when they actually meet Propehet Jesus (a.s.)...They're in for a BIG SURPRISE!"

It sounds like you have some hotline to heaven providing you with knowledge not available to the rest of us.

You are not the only evengelical on who regularly participates on this forum. I would estimate that approximately 50% of the Christians who regularly participate are Evangelicals, in he sense that there primarly goal in coming here is to "Save" us.

The same can be said for Muslims on this forum. They are always slamming Christianity, preaching at us trying to show us the "straight path."

You assume that 50% of people participating on this forum are Evangelical Christians for the reason you posted but you need to realize that most Protestant denominations adhere to the words of Jesus in Mark 16:15 "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." That does not make them all Evangelical Christians.

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I can not judge the belief or faith of another.  I mean the true followers of Jesus (as) whether they call themselves Muslims, Christians, or anything else.  It is my belief that each person will be judged according to his own knowledge and understanding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I understand where you are coming from and you do have a point there. I would like to ask you what do you say of the following verse?

[shakir 3:85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Do you believe that this verse complies with your views? If so please explain.

Wasalam :)

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Correction: Christianity and Islam contradict each other. According to Islam,  Jesus and Muhammad did not contradict eachother . They both came down with the same message "LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH". So according to Islam if you accept Muhammad  (pbuh) but you  reject Jesus (Muhammad version of Jesus) (as), then you are not a Muslim.

Wasalam.

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There in is the problem it is according to Islam that Jesus does not contradict Muhammad but this is not true according to the bible. So it seem we are at a stale mate the apostles how walked with talked with and ate with Jesus say they contradict but Mohammad says he don't contradict Jesus. Who should I believe?

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Oh but you do believe you are in a better position than we are. Consider your comment, "the bigger my smile gets thinking about the expression on their faces when they actually meet Propehet Jesus (a.s.)...They're in for a BIG SURPRISE!"

It sounds like you have some hotline to heaven providing you with knowledge not available to the rest of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have (nor am I in need of) a "hotline", as I have the Holy Quran, which is the message of Allah (s.w.a.) to all mankind for all time.

I say what I said because Christians believe that they will be rewarded with eternal paradise for their belief that Prophet Jesus (a.s.) is God. In fact, this will not happen and Prophet Jesus (a.s.) will explain to Allah (s.w.a.) when questioned (as to whether or not he told his followers to worship him or his mother) that he never said such a thing, and this is AGAINST his teachings to his people.

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There in is the problem it is according to Islam that Jesus does not contradict Muhammad but this is not true according to the bible. So it seem we are at a stale mate the apostles how walked with talked with and ate with Jesus say they contradict but Mohammad says he don't contradict Jesus. Who should I believe?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I studied a little bit of the historicity of Jesus Christ at school. We looked at Jesus Christ from a historical perspective and most of the stuff we studied about him was what was stated in the Bible.

Yes, you are right, from a historical perspective if you want to study Jesus you will use the Bible as your source as the Bible has the earliest writings about him. Also from a historical perspective you will not look at the Quran to study Jesus as the Quran was written some 600 years after the Prophet Jesus. Keep in mind that you are looking at Jesus from a historical perspective….not a religious perspective.

In history we also learnt that there are two types of history:

-Known history- The human knowledge and understanding of what happened at that time of the event, which is understood by viewing the little evidence available for what happened at the event.

-Actual history- what really happened at the time of the event.

From an Islamic perspective Jesus was proclaiming the same message as Muhammad “LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH”. This is the actual history. Whereas the belief that Jesus proclaimed to mankind that he is the Son of God who is here to die for our sins…..is the known history

Now you might not agree with this but this is the Islamic perspective and position of Jesus.

Now my message to you before was to show you that your comment that “you either follow Jesus or you follow Muhammad” does not make sense to us as we follow both of them and they both were messengers who came with the same message. This is just like me telling you “you either follow God or you follow Paul”. To you this may not make sense as the message that Paul sent was the same as the message that God sent, as according to Christianity, Paul received messages from God.

I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Wasalam.

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Brother, let me answer your question with a question.  Do you believe that if a person has never known Islam, he will be judged the same as one who has known Islam, and rejected it? 

For whatever reason, be it social stigma, fear, or lack of available information, many Christians have never learned anything true about Islam, and they are following God's will to the best of their knowledge and ability.  I firmly believe that God is merciful, and will judge each person according to his or her own knowledge and abilities, and I do not find this belief to be contrary to the verse which states that those who reject Islam will be condemned.

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Thankyou for that sister I agree with you. And no I donot believe that the one who has never known Islam will be judged as the same one who has known Islam. And you are right that this does not contradict the verse I quoted.

The reason why I originally asked the question about you believing the followers of Christ will go to heaven is because there are many Muslims who say that Christians and Jews (those of today....the ones that do know about Islam) will enter heaven. They usually use this verse to back it up:

[shakir 2:62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

However that is not the case. This verse refers to those Jews and Christians who follwed the true teachings of Allah (s.w.t), before the advent of Prophet Muhammad.

So I thought you were using the same argument as these Muslims. But if you were referring to the true followers of Christ that this verse is talking about (the Christians before the advent of Muhammad (pbuh) ).....then I apologise for misunderstanding you.

:)

Wasalam.

P.s. I am a sister. And just incase you didn't know my username (Muwahida) means a female Monotheist. A male Monotheist is called a Muwahid.

Edited by Muwahida

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I don't have (nor am I in need of) a "hotline", as I have the Holy Quran, which is the message of Allah (s.w.a.) to all mankind for all time.

I say what I said because Christians believe that they will be rewarded with eternal paradise for their belief that Prophet Jesus (a.s.) is God. In fact, this will not happen and Prophet Jesus (a.s.) will explain to Allah (s.w.a.) when questioned (as to whether or not he told his followers to worship him or his mother) that he never said such a thing, and this is AGAINST his teachings to his people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the Bible, God is not a God of confusion. All the words of the Biblical prophets were in harmony with one another. Mohammed's words have caused confusion, contradictions, and conflict with the other prophets so I don't accept the Quran as the message of God to all mankind.

The Jesus of Islam cannot be the same Jesus spoken of in the Bible.

The Jesus of the Quran was not crucified but was born to be nothing more than a prophet whereas Jesus of the Bible's sole reason for being on earth was to die for the sins of mankind so that He could reconcile man to God.

The Jesus of the Quran's life began with his birth and earth and will end after his return to earth, where he returns to kill non-Muslims and establish Islam as the true religion, and then die and be burried next to Mohammed.

The Jesus of the Bible always was.

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.......

....Of the angels he says,

"He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire."

But of the Son he says,

"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

(Hebrews 1)

By the way, you mention Christians worship Mary. That is incorrect. Catholics don't worship Mary, they pray to her, a practise totally rejected by Protestants.

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subanallah

I know there's at least 20 or so. We have lawyers , senate judge, homemakers, doctors.

Inshallah all those people are true Muslims and AIUI according to Islamic practice they have to be accepted at face value as such.

Unfortunately the fact remains that US agencies will plant their agents or 'converts', to 'infiltrate' Muslim groups. They may also use such people to work as agent provocateurs.

I'd rather not have posted this message, since it could be insensitive.

But I have posted it as a warning to others who come across converts who also have an active 'political' agenda, or indeed one that seeks to challenge traditional doctrine.

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I studied a little bit of the historicity of Jesus Christ at school. We looked at Jesus Christ from a historical perspective and most of the stuff we studied about him was what was stated in the Bible.

Yes, you are right, from a historical perspective if you want to study Jesus you will use the Bible as your source as the Bible has the earliest writings about him. Also from a historical perspective you will not look at the Quran to study Jesus as the Quran was written some 600 years after the Prophet Jesus. Keep in mind that you are looking at Jesus from a historical perspective….not a religious perspective. 

In history we also learnt that there are two types of history:

-Known history- The human knowledge and understanding of what happened at that time of the event, which is understood by viewing the little evidence available for what happened at the event.

-Actual history- what really happened at the time of the event.

but historically we never know what actually happened. So historically know history is the most accurate account of what really happened.

From an Islamic perspective Jesus was proclaiming the same message as Muhammad “LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH”. This is the actual history. Whereas the belief that Jesus proclaimed to mankind that he is the Son of God who is here to die for our sins…..is the known history

Now you might not agree with this but this is the Islamic perspective and position of Jesus.

Yes we disagree because your implying that know history is completely the opposite of Known history with is not possible. And your also telling me that Jesus is the worst prophet ever because he failed to get the message across to his apostles. They all believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus and all except one died for there belief. It is clear that they believed in Death and resurrection of Jesus for atonement of sins. So Jesus failed to convey his message to them making him the worst prophet ever.  The only prophet for that matter that failed to convey his massage.

Now my message to you before was to show you that your comment that “you either follow Jesus or you follow Muhammad” does not make sense to us as we follow both of them and they both were messengers who came with the same message. This is just like me telling you “you either follow God or you follow Paul”. To you this may not make sense as the message that Paul sent was the same as the message that God sent, as according to Christianity, Paul received messages from God.

I see what your saying but from a biblical/historical point of view you can’t follow both and that is what we where getting at.

I hope you understand where I am coming from. As I hope you understand where we are coming from

Wasalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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:blush: My mistake, Sis Muwahida!  I didn't even check your profile! 

As a relatively recent convert to Islam, I assure you that even now, there are many Christians who have never known anything about Islam.  In fact, I was compelled to read the Quran by a false comment made by a Christian preacher, who led a congregation of about 400.  I was the only one who refuted his false comment, as far as I know.  That means that there are at least 400 Christians in America who do not know the first thing about Islam.  (His comment was that Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham (as) but worship Satan.)

I believe that each person, at all times, will be judged according to his or her own knowledge and understanding.  If a person has studied Islam - it seems so simple and clear to me, so I can't concieve that they could study and not understand - and has rejected it, this person will be condemned.

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Yes, I agree with you sister. Now I understand what you are saying, thankyou.

but historically we never know what actually happened. So historically know history is the most accurate account of what really happened.

Yes, HISTORICALLY- from an historical perspective. But to me, not everything history tells me is accurate. The reason why I believe that the Quran’s version of Prophet Jesus (as) is the actual history is because I believe that the Quran is the Word of God and noone in their right mind will believe that God lies.

Yes we disagree because your implying that know history is completely the opposite of Known history with is not possible. And your also telling me that Jesus is the worst prophet ever because he failed to get the message across to his apostles. They all believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus and all except one died for there belief. It is clear that they believed in Death and resurrection of Jesus for atonement of sins. So Jesus failed to convey his message to them making him the worst prophet ever. The only prophet for that matter that failed to convey his massage.

No I am not saying Jesus was the worst Prophet. I do not believe that Jesus failed to get his message across to the apostles. I do not believe that those who wrote the Gospels were Jesus’ apostles and I do not believe that those who wrote the Gospels have a high status in the sight of God. If I do not accept the Bible to be fully accurate then how am I to believe what you tell me about the apostles?

And one more thing is that I also do not believe that Jesus failed to get his message across. I believe that after Jesus Christ (as) and before Prophet Muhammad (saw) there were Unitarian Christians- those people who followed Nabi Isa (as) but did not believe he was the Son of God etc.

In our ahadith and the history of our Prophet there is one Christian by the name of Waraqah Bin Nawfal who had said that Muhammad was to be the Prophet sent by God as mentioned in the Injil. He had said this about Muhammad even before Muhammad had proclaimed his Prophethood. This is what is written in history. Now according to Christians this record of this event is ‘known” history and it is not the actual history. Don’t you agree?

I see what your saying but from a biblical/historical point of view you can’t follow both and that is what we where getting at.

But I reject the biblical/historical view of Jesus therefore I can follow both. Redimido, I do not want to debate you but I just wanted to get my message across to you. We follow both Jesus and Muhammad (saw) as the Quran states that they were both Prophet’s of God who preached the same message “LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH”. If we believe that the Quran is the Word of Allah, then the Biblical/historical view of Jesus is not sufficient.

Wasalam :)

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Yes, I agree with you sister. Now I understand what you are saying, thankyou.

but historically we never know what actually happened. So historically know history is the most accurate account of what really happened.

Yes, HISTORICALLY- from an historical perspective. But to me, not everything history tells me is accurate. The reason why I believe that the Quran’s version of Prophet Jesus (as) is the actual history is because I believe that the Quran is the Word of God and noone in their right mind will believe that God lies.

Yes but you must admit that it contradict history and that you have blind faith that this is true. I  tought islam was not a religion on blind faith? And anyone who is searching for the truth would notice that and realize that logically it can’t be the truth.

Yes we disagree because your implying that know history is completely the opposite of Known history with is not possible. And your also telling me that Jesus is the worst prophet ever because he failed to get the message across to his apostles. They all believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus and all except one died for there belief. It is clear that they believed in Death and resurrection of Jesus for atonement of sins. So Jesus failed to convey his message to them making him the worst prophet ever.  The only prophet for that matter that failed to convey his massage.

No I am not saying Jesus was the worst Prophet. I do not believe that Jesus failed to get his message across to the apostles. I do not believe that those who wrote the Gospels were Jesus’ apostles and I do not believe that those who wrote the Gospels have a high status in the sight of God. If I do not accept the Bible to be fully accurate then how am I to believe what you tell me about the apostles?

And one more thing is that I also do not believe that Jesus failed to get his message across. I believe that after Jesus Christ (as) and before Prophet Muhammad (saw) there were Unitarian Christians- those people who followed Nabi Isa (as) but did not believe he was the Son of God etc.

If Jesus didn't fail then why is there no recorded of what you call his actual teaching or his actual apostles. There’s is no evidence of anybody following Jesus and his true apostles. what your saying is ilogical.

In our ahadith and the history of our Prophet there is one Christian by the name of Waraqah Bin Nawfal who had said that Muhammad was to be the Prophet sent by God as mentioned in the Injil.  He had said this about Muhammad even before Muhammad had proclaimed his Prophethood. This is what is written in history. Now according to Christians this record of this event is ‘known” history and it is not the actual history. Don’t you agree? 

As far as I know this isn't even known History

I see what your saying but from a biblical/historical point of view you can’t follow both and that is what we where getting at.

But I reject the biblical/historical view of Jesus therefore I can follow both. Redimido, I do not want to debate you but I just wanted to get my message across to you. We follow both Jesus and Muhammad (saw) as the Quran states that they were both Prophet’s of God who preached the same message “LA ILLAHA ILLALLAH”. If we believe that the Quran is the Word of Allah, then the Biblical/historical view of Jesus is not sufficient.

I get what your saying that islamicly you can follow booth but biblicaly/historicaly you can’t so that is why I (key word I) say you can’t.

Wasalam  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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According to the Bible, God is not a God of confusion. All the words of the Biblical prophets were in harmony with one another. Mohammed's words have caused confusion, contradictions, and conflict with the other prophets so I don't accept the Quran as the message of God to all mankind.

Christians have all sorts of disagreements about how to harmonize and understand how the different books are supposed to work together. Your time would be better spent if you didn't descend into silly and incorrect generalizations. I for one, have read both books carefully; can you say the same? I have found a consistent, common message across both books, if you do not read the Bible through a pre-conceived agenda.

The Jesus of Islam cannot be the same Jesus spoken of in the Bible.

The Jesus of the Quran was not crucified but was born to be nothing more than a prophet whereas Jesus of the Bible's sole reason for being on earth was to die for the sins of mankind so that He could reconcile man to God.

You speak as if "prophet" is some sort of insult. "Nothing more than a prophet?" Show a little respect to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Abraham, Moses, and others. They're better than you'll ever be.

All prophets reconcile man to God; that is their main mission. But Biblical records show that every other messenger mentioned in the Bible did not need any cosmic God-man sacrifice to reconcile mankind to God; they reconciled mankind to God by teaching them about God and the way to approach him, and the right way to act. That was the constant message throughout the scriptures, and it was the message that Jesus (as) taught in the Gospels. I understand you believe strongly that suddenly everything changed with Jesus (as), but I think you can understand why we would find that quite implausible, as belief in reconciliation with God through the sacrifice of God-men is the belief which is truly out of whack wityh the message of the rest of the scriptures, whether Jewish or Islamic.

The Jesus of the Quran's life began with his birth and earth and will end after his return to earth, where he returns to kill non-Muslims and establish Islam as the true religion, and then die and be burried next to Mohammed.

The Jesus of the Bible always was.

He's not returning to "kill non-Muslims;" where do you get this nonsense? He is to come to restore justice on the earth, same as the Christian picture.

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