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In the Name of God بسم الله

CONVINCE ME SHIA IS RIGHT

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Your all sooo corupt and backwards. U dont even now what ur all saying about the beloved companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He (peace be upon him) quoted himself as saying he who does not believe in any of my companions is not a muslim.

Also relating back to the quote that Hazrat Abu Bakr (R.A) is a hypocrite (na'auzabilla), Where is he buried at this moment in time? Isn't that enough for you, look at the status he recieved, buried next to the greatest man ever to talk the face of the earth. Yet whenever i look at Shia'ism they always talk about this imam and next imam: never about the Prophet (peace be upon him). The reason being because you are giving ur soo called corupt "12" imams the status of prophethood indirectly and ur classed as non muslims in that case.

Just do your researched on the burial on Hazrat Abu Bakr (R.A) and how he was accepted by the prophet (peace be upon him) then come back and talk u hypocrites!!!!

how could you debate with your quranic text when ur corupt leaders are bringing the versus all out of context for there own use: Act of cowardness by shias

where do you get your context from?

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Your all sooo corupt and backwards. U dont even now what ur all saying about the beloved companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He (peace be upon him) quoted himself as saying he who does not believe in any of my companions is not a muslim.

Also relating back to the quote that Hazrat Abu Bakr (R.A) is a hypocrite (na'auzabilla), Where is he buried at this moment in time? Isn't that enough for you, look at the status he recieved, buried next to the greatest man ever to talk the face of the earth. Yet whenever i look at Shia'ism they always talk about this imam and next imam: never about the Prophet (peace be upon him). The reason being because you are giving ur soo called corupt "12" imams the status of prophethood indirectly and ur classed as non muslims in that case.

Just do your researched on the burial on Hazrat Abu Bakr (R.A) and how he was accepted by the prophet (peace be upon him) then come back and talk u hypocrites!!!!

Who were raised in the household of the Prophet (pbuh). I rest my case.

The mere fact that we emphsize the Imams (as) as much as we do is proof in itself of the Shia's devotion to the Holy Prophet (pbuh), because we are following his commands to accept only the wilyat of his Ahlul-Bayt (as), unlike others, who pay lip service to the Prophet, but then follow figures whom the Prophet has not authorized us to follow.

And there is a huge difference between Prophethood and Imamate. Learn it.

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salam, baith (allegiance) is of many types this ghadeer khum which you are refering to doesnot hold hazrat ali ra as the caliph.prophet pbuh didnot appoint anyone as caliph as he wanted the people to decide these matters as after he had gone how else would the muslim ummah deal with such affairs??by themselves. we donot deny the high status of the ahlebait all you are giving is the high status of hazrat ali which we do not deny,

and brother correction plz hazrat abu bakar & umar ra were present at tht janaza of prophet pbuh and inside the prophets house,but an arguments erupted between the muhajir (people who migrated to medina) and insar (the helpers of the migrators) as to who would be the next caliph?if you say the matter was decided by prophet pbuh them somebody forgot to tell the muhajir and the insar??no that cannot be so.

naturally when their is a dispute outside you dont expect the family to go attend such matters when their is a funeral therefore the companions went hazrat abu bakar and umar ra.if they hadnt done so there would have been a war between the two groups as even their swords had been raised.

FALSE accusation on hazrat umar and abu bakar ra: if they was power hungry they would have been present at this "so called" secret meeting they wouldnt have been at the prophets house would they?another thing to note they didnt leave the bedside of prophet pbuh by themselves but a person went to call them both away explaining of the difficult situation between the two groups.both companions resolved the matter in a peaceful matter and bloodshed was avoided.

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didnt hazrat ali pay his allegiance to hazrat abu bakar ra even if it was after 6 months once hazrat fatima ra passd away??didnt hazrat ali pay his allegiance to hazrat umar??and hazrat uthman??of course he did he was their deputy advisor the most high office they could give him.

or was this allegiance just lip-service by hazrat ali as you shia accuse?no of course not hazrat ali ra respected the sahaba and as you are a shia of ali we also should respect hazrat alis decisions and follow his footsteps by paying our allegiance JUST like hazrat ali himself should we not brother?

conspiracy theories,assumptions,mistranslating hadith will get you no where because the fact is that hazrat ali did pay allegiance to these three companions regardless of what you may say but that doesnt make him of having a less status.just like prophet muhammad pbuh was the mightiest messenger sent at the end so was hazrat ali the mightiest caliph sent at the end including hazrat hassan ra 6 months calphiate.

i rest my case.

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salam, not many hadith have been reported brother because of the political situation at the time.anybody who praised ahlebaith were either beheaded,tortured or like imam ahmad hanbal his arms were pulled out of his sockets that they touched the ground.

books were burnt and the bani umayyah tried every effort to take their praise away, but truth cannot be hidden as 300 reported ayats are present in the quran for hazrat ali ra alone and Allah has promised that the quran cannot be changed as its the final book.

just because there are not many hadith present in hadith books doesnot mean imam bukhari and imam muslim had anything against the ahlebait but they were jailed and tortured also hence not many hadith present.

wives of prophets are included as the ahlebaith but the ahlebaith hold the distinction higher then the prophets wives over the ayat thatheer.

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sheikh tijanis book then i was guided is a shia propaganda book brother.it doesnot give the sunni side of the argument even if you look at what the sunni says most of the time is just qestions and 3-4 pages answers given by the shia jus look at the contents of the sunni in that book its not much.

me myself personally could have done a better job defending my aqeedah its a shame such propoganda material is being circulated also the hadith have been mistranslated so no suprises there.

hey adminnistrator i gave a long answer to the newly convert brother about which sect is right why you taken that answer off??did i offend someone?

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CONVINCE ME THAT SHIA IS THE RIGHT PATH. THERE ARE MANY MIXED MESSAGES.

I'M A REVERT TO ISLAM.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Ask Allah (swt) for guidance to the right path. After doing that, read with open mind, do not listen to one side, but find out for yourself. If you must ask questions ask questions but also question the answer you get until you get fully satisfied. Islam was one at the time of the prophet (saaws) and so many people have fabricated books, except the book of Allah (SWT) the Holy Qur'an. Brother I have been a muslim since birth (al hamdu lilah) and was raised by both major sects of islam, Shia and Sunna, but never in my younger days was I asked are you a Shia or a Sunni, I was always taught to say I am muslim, then people start pulling me into those matters. Honestly till this day I have been searching and researching and so far I have not seen answers to the accusation placed before the Shia Sect, and we have not been able to pull any proof that proves other side wrong, because history contradicts a lot of our saying. Whether the history or hadith has been fabricated I don't know because you will see very close contradictions between Shia hadith and history, I am not saying this because I am Sunni I am saying this because I do not know what to claim myself, but a muslim. Once you enter into this world you will find so many contradictions you will go insane, for instance I read so many sayings that Abu Baker (r.a) forced Imam Ali (a.s) to pay allegiance, but then I refer to Nahjul-balagha, and I find that Imam Ali (a.s) telling people to leave him alone, he does not want the Calipha. Or there is an accusation Fatima Alzahra'a (a.s) hurt by Umar Bin Khatab (r.a) who also martyrd the baby of Fatima (a.s), and the question is first why would Fatima (a.s) come and answer the door when people are threatning? or What did Imam Ali (a.s) do? If he was tied up and forced, then why did Imam Ali (a.s) marry his daughter to Umar (r.a)? and why was Imam Ali (a.s) the governer in Umar (r.a) calipha? why did Imam Ali (a.s) help Umar in the incident of the crazy women? which the narration in Sunni Hadith relates that Umar (r.a) said if it wasn't for Imam Ali (a.s) Umar would have seized to exist? If Imam Ali (a.s) has been assualted by Umar and Abu Bakr (r.a) then why would he help them? or why would he even adopt Abu Bakr son? or Marry Abu Bakr wife after Abu Bakr (r.a) died? And who was Imam Jaafar (a.s) grand grand father was? Why do we not narrate hadith from Imam Hassan (a.s)? is it because he gave the Calipha to Muawiya?.

Then the sunni side we were asked by the prophet (saaws) to look after his Ahlulbayt, why didn't we? Why were all the Imams martyrd? Where is all the Hadith of the Prophet (saaws)? I dont believe that there was 7000+ hadith only narrated by the Prophet (saaws). What happened to the supporters of Muawaya? of Yazid? the Banu Umayya? where did all these people go? Why didn't you support Imam Hussien (a.s)? Who killed Uthman (r.a)? Who killed Imam Ali (a.s)? if it was the rafidah/khawarij who abandoned Imam Ali (a.s) army, then why did they not go against Muawiya? Why was their no narrations from Ahlulbayt that matches the narrations from other sources in number figures? Don't you agree with this narration, I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate? Where was the knowledge that we acquired from Imam Ali (a.s)? How did Fatima (a.s) according to Sunna die? Why did she not want anyone to know where she was burried? Why do you narrate that she (a.s) was angry at Abu Bakr(r.a)? if you say because Abu Bakr (r.a) denied Fadak to her because Prophets do not inherit and do not pass on, then why didn't Fatima (a.s) know about that? Or a new one I heard that the land was for Imam Ali (a.s), why wasn't Imam Ali (a.s) infromed that he (a.s) will not get inheritance from the Prophet (saaws)?

This is but only a few questions which I just want to know why dont we just take all the good hadith of both sects combine them and neglect all the bad things and leave the Judgement for Allah (swt). At least we united Islam, we live by the Quran and all the good hadith passed down from the Imams and The Prophet (saaws). I really do respect those of us who want to unite but people just dont want to understand. Do people think that if we fight now we solved the problems of the past? We are both worshiping Allah (swt) the Creator of Heaven and Earth, who blessed us with the Qura'an to guide us to the right path, through his Prophet (saaws), who did everything to spread islam and keep them united, and guide them to the word of Allah (swt). There is a hadith from the Prophet (saaws) stating that one day the Prophet (saaws) was so sad that he would not allow anyone to enter to his house, but Fatima (a.s). Fatima (a.s) asked him what was wrong? He answered that he is sad because of what was going to happen to Islam after he returned to Allah (swt). Do you people take this lightly, now everyone will start pointing the finger and saying oh look they are the ones who deviated, quiet honestly like little babies. Instead of doing that work together to become one religion again, Everyone doesn't want Islam to become united, because if it happens the truth will be shown.

Until this day comes I urge you to not listen and take to what one person tells you, because everyone now wants to pull you to their side, but what I trully want and I dont know about everyone else, to be pulled to Allah (swt) side, then I know I am on the right side/path.

(salam)

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excuse me how can they be muslims???brother im a sunni and i know shia are muslims the people who donot believe that the quran was preserved are ghulaat sect which is one sect out of 30 call the ghulaat non muslims but the remaining are muslim.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I am translating this from arabic to english, sunni book narrations.

From Umar Bin Al Khattab (r.a):

If muslims would not say Umar Bin Al Khattab added to the Qur'an then I would have added "The Stoning (Aya)". Gets you thinking right?

(salam)

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brother you have many questions but as far as sunnis are concerned we didnt abandon the ahlebaith.if differences have occured amonst us they also ocuured between them the sahaba were human mistakes were commited by them nobodys perfect.

if you talk on one topic maybe we can answer??but if you are hiting on everything we dont know where to start.

who was power hungry?ofcourse they read the prophets pbuh janaza.

what are you on about??what reference is this and whre is from?be specific.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Ask Allah (swt) for guidance to the right path. After doing that, read with open mind, do not listen to one side, but find out for yourself. If you must ask questions ask questions but also question the answer you get until you get fully satisfied. Islam was one at the time of the prophet (saaws) and so many people have fabricated books, except the book of Allah (SWT) the Holy Qur'an. Brother I have been a muslim since birth (al hamdu lilah) and was raised by both major sects of islam, Shia and Sunna, but never in my younger days was I asked are you a Shia or a Sunni, I was always taught to say I am muslim, then people start pulling me into those matters. Honestly till this day I have been searching and researching and so far I have not seen answers to the accusation placed before the Shia Sect, and we have not been able to pull any proof that proves other side wrong, because history contradicts a lot of our saying. Whether the history or hadith has been fabricated I don't know because you will see very close contradictions between Shia hadith and history, I am not saying this because I am Sunni I am saying this because I do not know what to claim myself, but a muslim. Once you enter into this world you will find so many contradictions you will go insane, for instance I read so many sayings that Abu Baker (r.a) forced Imam Ali (a.s) to pay allegiance, but then I refer to Nahjul-balagha, and I find that Imam Ali (a.s) telling people to leave him alone, he does not want the Calipha. Or there is an accusation Fatima Alzahra'a (a.s) hurt by Umar Bin Khatab (r.a) who also martyrd the baby of Fatima (a.s), and the question is first why would Fatima (a.s) come and answer the door when people are threatning? or What did Imam Ali (a.s) do? If he was tied up and forced, then why did Imam Ali (a.s) marry his daughter to Umar (r.a)? and why was Imam Ali (a.s) the governer in Umar (r.a) calipha? why did Imam Ali (a.s) help Umar in the incident of the crazy women? which the narration in Sunni Hadith relates that Umar (r.a) said if it wasn't for Imam Ali (a.s) Umar would have seized to exist? If Imam Ali (a.s) has been assualted by Umar and Abu Bakr (r.a) then why would he help them? or why would he even adopt Abu Bakr son? or Marry Abu Bakr wife after Abu Bakr (r.a) died? And who was Imam Jaafar (a.s) grand grand father was? Why do we not narrate hadith from Imam Hassan (a.s)? is it because he gave the Calipha to Muawiya?.

Then the sunni side we were asked by the prophet (saaws) to look after his Ahlulbayt, why didn't we? Why were all the Imams martyrd? Where is all the Hadith of the Prophet (saaws)? I dont believe that there was 7000+ hadith only narrated by the Prophet (saaws). What happened to the supporters of Muawaya? of Yazid? the Banu Umayya? where did all these people go? Why didn't you support Imam Hussien (a.s)? Who killed Uthman (r.a)? Who killed Imam Ali (a.s)? if it was the rafidah/khawarij who abandoned Imam Ali (a.s) army, then why did they not go against Muawiya? Why was their no narrations from Ahlulbayt that matches the narrations from other sources in number figures? Don't you agree with this narration, I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate? Where was the knowledge that we acquired from Imam Ali (a.s)? How did Fatima (a.s) according to Sunna die? Why did she not want anyone to know where she was burried? Why do you narrate that she (a.s) was angry at Abu Bakr(r.a)? if you say because Abu Bakr (r.a) denied Fadak to her because Prophets do not inherit and do not pass on, then why didn't Fatima (a.s) know about that? Or a new one I heard that the land was for Imam Ali (a.s), why wasn't Imam Ali (a.s) infromed that he (a.s) will not get inheritance from the Prophet (saaws)?

This is but only a few questions which I just want to know why dont we just take all the good hadith of both sects combine them and neglect all the bad things and leave the Judgement for Allah (swt). At least we united Islam, we live by the Quran and all the good hadith passed down from the Imams and The Prophet (saaws). I really do respect those of us who want to unite but people just dont want to understand. Do people think that if we fight now we solved the problems of the past? We are both worshiping Allah (swt) the Creator of Heaven and Earth, who blessed us with the Qura'an to guide us to the right path, through his Prophet (saaws), who did everything to spread islam and keep them united, and guide them to the word of Allah (swt). There is a hadith from the Prophet (saaws) stating that one day the Prophet (saaws) was so sad that he would not allow anyone to enter to his house, but Fatima (a.s). Fatima (a.s) asked him what was wrong? He answered that he is sad because of what was going to happen to Islam after he returned to Allah (swt). Do you people take this lightly, now everyone will start pointing the finger and saying oh look they are the ones who deviated, quiet honestly like little babies. Instead of doing that work together to become one religion again, Everyone doesn't want Islam to become united, because if it happens the truth will be shown.

Until this day comes I urge you to not listen and take to what one person tells you, because everyone now wants to pull you to their side, but what I trully want and I dont know about everyone else, to be pulled to Allah (swt) side, then I know I am on the right side/path.

(salam)

Great response bro, but the OP put this up at least 5 years ago, and it was his only post. I doubt he is reading it. But, there might be others reading this post that might find it helpful, so good job.

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Islamyman, first you're going to need some detox, I'm sure you've already heard a lot about Shiism, most likely from many Sunnites who cannot stand other points of views and like the sunnite member here advises you to "go away" and ONLY read what he approves.

Shiism does not live in that box of totalitarian thinking. You are required to look outside of it and to dismiss the following misconceptions that Sunnites have made up intentionally to demonize Shia and to do the most horrifying things, going as far as even killing them for the following reasons:

- Shiites pray to Rocks (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites believe Jibreel (the Angel Gabriel) made a mistake (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites believe Quran is changed

- Shiites believe Quran is a Quran of Fatima

- Shiites believe in Taqiya (in their eyes: lying) and practice it throughout their lives, whenever, wherever (They are hypocrites, infiltrated Disbelievers)

- Shiism was made up by a Jew called Ibn Saba (They are Jews in disguise)

- Shiites curse the holy saints of Sunnism, Omar, Abu bakr and Omar (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites curse ALL of the companions (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites Call on Ali and his family, not God or Mohammad (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites have backstabbed Sunnites throughout history (They are non-Muslims)

- Shiites do not follow the real Ahlal Bait, Jafar al Sadegh was a Sunnite (The foundation of Shiism is based on non-Muslims)

- Shiites have made up the many lies in Islamic history and fabricated Sunnite Hadiths (They are Jews)

- Shiites order their followers to beat themselves so blood gushes out (They practice things that do not belong to Islam)

- Shiites always sided with the Jews, Crusades, Disbelievers, etc. to betray Sunnism (They are with the Non-Muslims)

- Shiites commonly come from Mut'a (temporary) marriage (They are [Edited Out] children)

- Shiites pray to grave (They are Polytheists)

Read all of these through and remember they are all false. Because of Shiism's own experience with these lies you are required not to be intolerant of other peoples' beliefs, that includes Sunnites, but also Jews and Christians and so on.

Then, i suggest you read some books by Sunnites who have become Shi'a or books that have written about the differences and why Shia Islam is more rational, scholarly, philosophically correct and so on.

http://www.al-islam.org/truthaboutshiah/

I wish you the best of luck.

Edited by Rubaiyat
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  • 2 months later...
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Allah mentions the word shia TWICE in the quran, i don't see any other sect used????

37:83 and 28:15

In regards to where Abu Baker is buried, look at where Bibi Fatema is Buried first, she is the DAUGHTER of the HOLY prophet.

She passed away 6 months after the death of the Prophet, why is it that she is buried so far away form her father??? Where Abu Baker passed away 2 years after the death of the Holy Prophet??

Whats the justification for that????? Blood relations over Rulers?

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I don't know what I could possibly say to convince you .... hmmmmmmmm thinking

Oh yeah...taking your top off and beating yourself immensely in moharram ....knowing that the camera is on you is a great feeling! Especially when you know the footage is being shown in the ladies section...oh the emotion comes out on my face....the way i swing my arms in the air on my pectorals

subhanallah

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I don't know what I could possibly say to convince you .... hmmmmmmmm thinking

Oh yeah...taking your top off and beating yourself immensely in moharram ....knowing that the camera is on you is a great feeling! Especially when you know the footage is being shown in the ladies section...oh the emotion comes out on my face....the way i swing my arms in the air on my pectorals

subhanallah

Why are you making fun of matam? :unsure:

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Allah mentions the word shia TWICE in the quran, i don't see any other sect used????

37:83 and 28:15

In regards to where Abu Baker is buried, look at where Bibi Fatema is Buried first, she is the DAUGHTER of the HOLY prophet.

She passed away 6 months after the death of the Prophet, why is it that she is buried so far away form her father??? Where Abu Baker passed away 2 years after the death of the Holy Prophet??

Whats the justification for that????? Blood relations over Rulers?

The above is pure common sense. I wonder why more people don't think of this? I guess people will only listen to what they want.

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  • 1 year later...
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(bismillah)

Bah! A fairly new revert would not know all those terms and above all, be able to phrase himself like you do. My hair stood up as I read your referring to 'Aisha as "Umm al Muhmineen" *shrugs* With a mother like that, who needs enemies?? So when I saw your claims about Ahl Ul Bayt...I understood what kind of a person you are.

May Allah (subhanahou wata'ala) guide you to as-Siratt al-Mustaqeem. Ameen! And may He (subhanahou wata'ala) keep people like you far, far away from hurting the wonderful, mild, loving and sensitive people who make up our amazing Ummah. Ameen!

(salam)

Ms. Moonlight

I have been a revert for 4 years alhamdulillah, and so far have been practicing sunni islam.... and even I did not understand so many of those words... i think it is important to speak to new muslims in language they can understand. otherwise, it creates confusion and self doubt.

also, please tell me more about the shia views on Aisha... you are saying with a mother like that, who needs enemies? what do you mean by this statement? why the distaste for her? I am not attempting to create fitnah, I am truly here in an effort to seek knowledge, inshallah.

Jazkallahu khair in advance

Asma

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also, please tell me more about the shia views on Aisha...

If you do not mind my interrupting, the Shia view is that Aisha was a plain, ordinary woman, without any of the glorification attributed to her by other Muslims. Her prestige among them is based on forged hadeethes and history.

As an example, Aisha hated the third caliph Uthman. But when he was killed, she took up the cause of his blood, as if she was his successor.

She should have left the matter to the elected caliph, Imam Ali. But she launched a futile campaign effectively trying to create FITNA in the Muslim nation.

Then, she took up arms against Imam Ali and when she was defeated, she did not even apologize. On the other hand, Imam Ali treated he with extraordinary kindness and grace.

You can judge for yourself what respect she deserves.

None from me !

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i am not gonna participate in this debate but i am so ashamed at the moment that we have got so much hatred and surprisingly its in the name of religion ... the religion which removed all the hatred and unified humanity now just watch what we are doing ...

A person wants to accept Islam but instead of telling him about Islam we are fighting over sects ...

May Allah have mercy on us.

To the person who is interested in Islam :

My perspective of Islam is that:

Read Quran and try to understand it not by any sect scholar but ny lexicon. Don't ever read only one ayah and try to judge it you have to get extensive knowledge of all the ayahs related to it. There are no sects in Islam so there is no point discussing them.

History hadiths come after Quran first go for that . hopefully you'd understand the glory the Quran don listen to any one cause Quran it self says don fall on my ayah blindly meaning try to understand yourself and then agree to it.

hopefully that will give you another perspective.

This approach can be wrong but in my opinion that is the most simplest solution for understanding Islam if you try to go deep into the branches of Islam (which are sects and its an infinite debate) i think u''l end nowhere.

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The split happened right after the prophet (saw), due to the Caliphate.

Shia stayed loyal to the command of Muahmmad (saw) and said Ali (as) is the Successor.

While Sunnis say there was no successor and it was totally up to the ummah.

The prophet will never forget such an important task such as forgetting about his successor.

Proof that Ali (as) is Caliphate

1. through Fatima:

First do you agree: "He who dies without knowing the Imam of his time, dies the death of (the days of) ignorance (Jahiliyya)." – Prophet Muhammad (SAWA)

The above hadith is found in the authoritative books of both the Shi'ites and Sunnis, including Sahih Bukhari and Musnad Ibn Hanbal

Ok now here it says that she died angry with Abu Bakr the Caliph at the time.

We read in Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

So who is the Imam of Fatima?

Does that mean she died Death of Jahliyat? It’s impossible because she is one of the 4 women guaranteed heaven 100 %.

2. Ghadeer Khum

Ghadeer Khum is the farewell pilgrimage of the prophet (saw).

On the way back to Medina, they stopped at a place called Ghadeer Khum

The prophet was with around 100000 – 200000 thousand people.

Before the Prophet (saw) said his Sermon, the following verse was revealed:

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)

Many Shia and Sunni clerics approve this.

That verse proves that the prophet (saw) had to deliver special news from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Then the prophet approached to give his sermon.

He told Salman al-Farsi to make him a pulpit with rocks.

With the sermon he gave a big lecture from the Quran warning people about mischief and etc.

Then to the end of the sermon the Messenger of Allah declared:

"It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his progeny)

then continued: “Do I not have more right over the believers

than what they have over themselves?” The people cried

out: “Yes, O' Messenger of God.” Then Prophet then held

up the hand of ‘Ali and said:

“For whoever I am his leader (Mawla), ‘Ali is his leader

(Mawla). “O Allah! Love those who love ‘Ali, and be

the enemy of the enemy of ‘Ali; help him who helps

‘Ali, and forsake him who forsakes ‘A1i.”

The list of sources includes Sahih

Tirmidhi, Sunan ibn Majah, Khasa’is an-Nisa’i, Mustadrak

al-Hakim, Musnad ibn Hanbal, Fadha’il as-Sahaba of ibn

Hanbal, Tasfeer al-Kabir by Fakhrud Deen ar-Razi, al-Bidayah

wa Nihaya by Ibn Kathir, and many others.

After the sermon Among the first Muslims to congratulate ‘Ali were ‘Umar and Abu Bakr, who said:

“Well done, O son of Abu Talib! Today you have

become the leader (Mawla) of all believing men and

women.”

[Found in Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Tafsir al-Kabir by

Fakhrudeen al-Razi, Kitabul Wilayah by at-Tabari, and many

Others.

Immediately after the Prophet (saw) finished his speech, the following verse of Holy

Qur’an was revealed:

“This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your

religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have

I perfected for you your religion and completed My

bounty upon you and chosen for you Islam as a

religion.” (5:3)

Some of the Ahle-Sunnah scholars who which mention the

revelation of this verse at Ghadir Khum include as-Suyuti,

ibn Asakir, ibn Katheer, Abu Nu’aym, and many others.

(See Mus'nad Ahmad, Vol. 3, Page 17 and 26. Also Kanz al-Ummal, Al-Muttaqi, Vol. 1, Page 47. Also Masabeeh Al-Sunnah, Al-Bagh'wi, Vol. 2, Page 204.)

Sayings about Ali and the Ahlul Bayt from the prophet (saw):

Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5913:

Amir b Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reporte (l on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger pbuh addressing 'Ali said: You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron- (Harun) was in relation to Moses but with (this explicit difference) that there is no prophet after me.

_____________________________________________________________

Sahih Muslim Book 031, Number 5915:

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father ,,,,,. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. ,,,,

Umar Said:“If Ali (A.S) had not been there, Umar would have been ruined”

historical words have been recorded by Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal inhis Musnad; Imam Makki Shafe’I in Dhaka’irul Uqba. Tabari in Riyaazun nazara vol 2 page 195 quotes Muawiya as saying: “Whenever Umar bin Khattab faced a difficult problem, he sought the assistance from Ali.

If umar went to ali for assistance that means he wasnt the most knowelagble man at the time of the prophet, and one of the conditions to be Amir Al mumineen, and the khalifa of muslims is to have the most knowledge amongst them because the muslims come to you for concerns you dont go to them.

:Ibn Qutayba, Ta’wil Mukhtalif al-Hadith, p. 152

• Iji, Mawaqif, vol. 2, p. 627 & 636

• Taftazani, Sharh Maqasid, vol. 2, p. 294

• Fakhr Razi, al-Tafsir al-Kabir, vol. 21, p. 22

• Ibn Abil-Hadid, Sharh Nahj Al-Balagha, vol. 1, p. 18; vol. 12, p. 179

• Al-Baqilani, Tamhid al-Awa’il, p. 476

• Ibn Mardawayh, Manaqib Ali Ibn Abi-Talib, p. 88

• Al-Qondoozi, Yanabi’ al-Mawadda, vol. 1, p. 162

• Ibn Qutayba, Ta’wil Mukhtalif al-Hadith, vol. 1, p. 162

• Al-Baqilani, Tamhid al-Awa’il Fi Talkhis Al-Dala’il, vol. 1, p. 476 & 547

• Al-Mawardi, al-Hawi Al-Kabir, vol. 12 p. 115; vol. 13, p. 213

• Sam’aani, Tafsir Sam’aani, vol. 5, p. 154

• Al-Zamakhshari, al-Mufassal Fi San’at al-A’raab, vol. 1, p. 432

• Abu-Bakr ibn Araby, al-Awasim Min al-Qawasim, vol. 1, p. 203

• Al-Ramli, Hashiyat al-Ramli, vol. 4, p. 39• Saudi Ghazi Aamery, al-Jid al-Hathith, vol. 1, p. 186

• Muhammad b. Muhammad al-Khademi, Bariqato Mahmudiyya, vol. 2, p. 108

• Muhammad Elish, Man’ al-Jalil, vol. 9, p. 648

• Qadi Abdul-Nabi Nukri, Dastoor Al-Ulama, vol. 1, p. 80

________________________________________________________________________

"I am leaving amongst you two things, the Qur'an and my Ahlulbayt, if you follow them you will never go astray".

1. Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada'il al�Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matba`at Muhammad `Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad saying, "There will be
twelve Muslim rulers
." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

Prophet Muhammad (s) said:

"Ali is from me and I am from Ali and no one represents me except Ali." Sunan ibn Majah, Hadith No.119.

The famous Historian, Tabari wrote:

“The first three to offer prayers were Muhammad (s), Khadija (a) and Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.”

History of Tabari, v2, p65

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has also declared describing Ali:

I am the dwelling of [spiritual] knowledge (I’lm) and

Ali is its gateway.

(See Al-Haakim, Mustadrak Vol. 3, Page 226. Also Ibn Jareer, Kanz al-Ummal Vol. 15, Page 13. Also Ibn Katheer, History, Vol. 7, Page 358.)

______________________________________________________________

Shoora:

Abu Bakr was chosen by a couple in the Shoora while Ali (as) was burying the Holy Prophet (saw).

Then Umar was chosen by Abubakkr.

Uthman then was chosen in the shoora.

And Ali was chosen by the people,

The only person who did get chosen as the true caliph was Ali if we went by the Shura.

Ali, Ibn Abbas, Uthman, Talha, Zubair, Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas, Salman al-

Farsi, Abu Dhar, Ammar Ibn Yasir, Miqdad, Abdurrahman Ibn Owf were among

those who were not consulted or even informed of the election of Abu-Bakr.

Even Umar confessed to the fact that the election of Abu Bakr was without consultation of Muslims.

(See sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817)

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salams,

I am a revert too. I know how confusing it can be. Just remember that the key is whether Allah appointed Leadership after the death of the Prophet a.s.or not.

One of the ayats in Qur'an that was a strong proof that Allah did appoint leadership to preserve Islam after the death of the Prophet was 4:57. When I read it, it became clear that Allah would not say "obey Me, obey the Prophet a.s. which is the same as obeying Allah, and then obey those among you of authority'... sorry for the informal notation. I mean that's like saying 'obey Allah, Obey His Truth and then obey your own leaders or some joe blow from the street'. doesn't make sense at all.

Allah appoints his Prophets a.s. and their Successors a.s. ~ no one else could protect Islam except one who was divinely appointed.

I have a really nice notebook I made that starts with the Purpose of Prophethood, on through the Event of Ghadeer Khumm when the Prophet a.s. apponted the leadership just before his death... and more than that. It has a basic intro. and goes step by step. Only the intro is from me and the rest is hadith from the Prophet and his Family a.s.

It is so simple and clear that it is almost amazing... and in easy to understand english.

It also has a lot of Tafsir (explanation ) of Qur'an by the Prophet and his Family a.s. including the 3 ayats of Qur'an that were revealed at ghadeer Khumm.

You can write me here and i can send it to your e-mail if you like. It will look long but that's only because it is one hadith to a page so one can hold it intheir hands and reflect.

sorry for this sloppy note... internet time is about up.

Welcome!

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Sahih al-Bukhari is the most authentic collection of hadiths in the Sunnah

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "There will be twelve Muslim rulers." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

Book 89:329

Sahih Muslim is the second most authentic collection of hadiths in the Sunnah

Sahih Muslim:

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."

Book 20:4477-4483

And there are more than 20 similar narrations

Sunan al-Tirmidhi:

The Prophet said: "There will be after me twelve rulers, all of them from Quraysh."

Hadith 2149 (numbering of al-Alamiyyah)

Sunan Abu Dawood:

The Prophet said: "This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh."

Book 36:4266

A Jewish man named Na'thal, went to the Prophet and among the questions he asked who would succeed him. The Prophet said, specifying them, "After me, 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and then my two sons, Hasan and Husayn and after Husayn, nine Imams will follow from his children." "The Jewish man said, 'Name them.' "The Prophet said, "When Husayn leaves this world, his son, 'Ali, and after him, his child Muhammad and after Muhammad, his son Ja'far and after Ja'far, his son Musa and after Musa, his son 'Ali and after 'Ali, Muhammad. After Muhammad, his child, 'Ali and after 'Ali, Hasan and after Hasan, his child Muhammad al-Mahdi. These are the twelve Imams."

Yanabi' al-Muwadat, p. 431

"This religion shall always be upright till there are twelve from Quraish. When they are no more, the earth will be destroyed (swallowed) with all its inhabitants"

Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 34, Tr. No. 3386

- Kash al-Astaar, part 1, pg 99 narrating from al-Ebaanah

- E'laam al-Waraa pg 384

- Muqtazab al-Asar, pg 3-4

- Manaaqeb of ibn Shar Aashob, vol 1, pg 290

- Behaar al-Anwaar vol 36, pg 267, Chap 41, Tr. No. 87

- Al-Insaaf, pg 361

"Surely this religion will always overcome its opponents and no enemy or deserter can ever harm it till there are twelve caliphs from my nation in it. All of them will be from Quraish"

Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 87

Nowehere in Sunnism are there 12 Muslim rulers, all of them from Quraysh.

The 'Four Rightly Guided' Rashidun Caliphs were four, there were more than 30 Ummayad Caliphs, Nearly 40 Abbasid Caliphs, and many Sunni Caliphs are not even from Quraysh!

SAHIH MUSLIM

Book 031, Number 5920:

...O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household.

http://www.cmje.org/...lim/031-smt.php

NOTE:

"my sunna" hadith IS NOT WEAK. For it to be WEAK (dhaeef) it needs to have people in the chain of narration who 'forget easily' or 'have a bad memory.' A weak hadith - there is still chance that it is true. But the "my sunna" hadith has FABRICATORS in the chain! People who would openly make lies about the Sahaba and the ProphetÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå. So it is not only WEAK, but its is WORSE ---> FABRICATED (mawdhoo').

Ayatullah Sayyid Kamaal al-Haidary has more than 10 episodes going through all 4 chains of "my sunna" and proves its NOT ONLY WEAK, but rather FABRICATED. If anyone dares to object, I will translate it inshaAllah.

Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) on the hypocrites

Nahj al-Balagha, Sermon 7:

"They have made Satan the master of their affairs, and he has taken them as partners. He has laid eggs and hatched them in their bosoms. He creeps and crawls in their laps. He sees through their eyes, and speaks with their tongues. In this way he has led them to sinfulness and adorned for them foul things like the action of one whom Satan has made partner in his domain and speaks untruth through his tongue."

Sunnis don't perform Wudu according to the Quran (Surah Al-Ma'ida, Ayah 6) and say their Wudu is better

Surah Al-Ahzaab, Ayah 33:

“...Verily, Allah has decreed to purify you, O' Ahlul Bayt, and sanctify you in a perfect way”

Surah As-Sajda, Ayah 24-25:

{24} "And amongst them We appointed imams to guide [the people] by Our command, when they had been patient and had conviction in Our signs."

{25} "Indeed your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that about which they used to differ."

Surah Al-Anfaal, Ayah 75:

"And those who believed afterwards and migrated, and waged jihad along with you, they belong to you; but the blood relatives are more entitled to inherit from one another in the Book of Allah. Indeed Allah has knowledge of all things."

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  • 3 years later...
  • Basic Members
On 12/03/2008 at 5:31 PM, ksaboor said:

Islam is binded by Allah ka Quran and Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) ka farman. first comes Allah ka Quran..where there is not a single Ayat regarding wilayat in Quran...nor a single Ayat regarding 12 imam... when we ask this basic thing which is the basic part of Aqeedah , shia say that it is in the pure qURAN which is with Imam Mehdi only which was given to him by Hazrat Ali (R.A.H) TRANSFER FROM THE 11 IMAMS to him and the quran with us is not that....

Secondly they say they believe in Ahleybait..in fact they are the biggest haters of Ahleybait...they don't include ummul momineen Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Hafsa in Ahleybait which is clearly indicated in the Quran that Ahleybait clearly includes all Wives of Prophet...who are they to disclude Hazrat Aisha and Hazrat Hafsa....

They dont love the friends of Prophet like Hazrat Abubakar and Hazrat Umer... where Hazrat Abubakar was Father in Law of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H).....how can Allah choose not the best people to be related with Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H).

They say only Ahley bait was the purest and only knew how to translate quran .... then was Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) was the prophet for only his family and was a failure for all other people.. that was not succesful to make a perfect Muslim Ummah ....

infact they don't realise that they only believe in what their big people wrote for the history and believed it and they don't believe in the Quran which is Pure, perfect and COMPLETE AND EXPLICIT... THEN actually how can they be Muslims????????????

It may be an attack on them but seriously have they ever thought about that how can Quran doesnt have any EXPLICIT thing about such an important belief about imamat???? oh yes according to them this is not the real Quran....

infact they

Azwaj e mutahrat are not included In ahl e bait yes in general Arabic it means people of house but in religion it is not like that ahl e bait are those who were in the blanket and their children 

 

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