Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Sayeda Jinan

Bahaei?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

They are a break-off from the Shia belief. They have an additional Prophet and they say that they had Imam Mahdi. These guys wrote holy books akin to the quran apparently. They believe in all the Prophets including the dodgy ones like Krishna and stuff, and they believe in all the holy books, hindu, jewish, christian, muslim (shia especially). They are pacifists and don't understand their own beliefs. They don't make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^ Its like a combination of everything :P

They beleive that there was a prophet born in 1817. They believe he came from the lineage of Prophet Muhammed, Prophet Isa, Prophet Ibrahim, the Budda, Moses and Zoraster (and a few other prophets....or people they believe to be prophets)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I met a bahai on the airplane last year. She had a necklace with a picture of a modest looking man (beard and all) and I asked her who is that and she said his name , can't remember it now, and said that he is a prophet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

The Baha'i are an enigma. They often portray themselves as being a movement for social change and betterment, while minimizing even speaking the name of God. They do this, I think, in hopes of attracting those less spiritually inclined towards religion. Ultimately, though, they are essentially monotheistic(though they come dangerlously close to polytheism by declaring that the prophets mirror the qualities of God). They also call for an established world government under some form of Baha'i "sharia"(that term is used in Persian and Arabic texts).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry to bring this post back up but i thought i would refer everyone to the following link:

http://www.bahaiawareness.com/

This is a very interesting site which explains the beliefs of Bahai from the shia perspective.

I have only just recently learnt that this faith exists and was very interested to understand what they actually believe in.

There are many contradictions and many questions have been raised in my head to try and understand what proof they have to suggest that Bahaullah is the Mahdi. It seems that whenever someone asks to prove this, the Bahai's tend to avoid it.

Anyway have a read and educate yourselves on the Bahai beliefs. I cant help but think that this religion was created by man to "modernise" and turn people away from the real Islam.

Please post your thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Shia by nature

(bismillah) (salam)

BAHAIS and AHMADIS foolow a "so called mehdi". Both left Islam and entered Kuffar.

Ma Salam

SBN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

Bahais are monothiest

They believe in the Prophets (as) and Imams (as)

They believe continuity of Prophethood and interpet the day of judgement as being as a revelation that revives the previous ulul -azm Rasool revelation. So the revelation of Mohammad (pbuh) till Bab, bahallah, to them is yamal qayama of Isa revelation (as) and Isa (as) to Mohammad (pbuh) is the yamala qayama of Musa (as) revelation, and so on.

I don't think they are 'kuffar', because they believe in God and worship him and testify to hsi oneness sincerely

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

There is no doubt that they are kufr. It's not clear to me though whether they are Ahl al Khitab or not. I have read in some places that to be such one has to belong to either Judaism or Christianity.

In other places I have seen it written that one must simply believe in:

A.) The oneness of God

B.) One of the revealed books

C.) One of the Prophets

By that criteria, the Baha'i are certainly people of the book.

Regardless, I think the Iranian government is wrong in oppressing them considering they are on the path of monotheism.

Edited by Amir۞Ramadhaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaams:

I am Imran Shaykh, the author of www.bahaiawareness.com. I saw a link to my web site from this forum so I decided to come here to check out the same. I went through the discussion so far and would like to clarify the following points.

1. Bahais are definitely kafirs - for the following reasons:

a. They believe in the concept of Manifestations of God, which is totally aginst the concept of Tawheed.

b. They do not accept the finality of Prophethood of the Holy Prophet of Islam. All Islamic sects are unanimous that the denial of the finality of the prophethood of the Holy Prophet of Islam is equivalent to kufr.

3. They deny the finality of the Quran and believe that the words of Bahaullah are superior to Quran despite all traditions to the contrary.

4. They deny physical resurrection. They believe that the world in which we are living in is the Heaven and Hell which is promised in Quran. Spiritual reward and punishment is what they believe in. Thus they deny Qiyamat and consequently, the words of Allah in Quran (close of 30% of Quran is about Qiyamat) and that of the Prophet and the Holy Imams (as).

5. They accept that Bahaullah is the "spiritual" return of Jesus Christ which again is contrary to the words of the Holy Prophet (saw) and the Imams (as)

Please feel free to visit my web site www.bahaiawareness.com for more information on the Bahais and also for any questions that you may have.

Regards

Imran Shaykh

(salam)

Bahais are monothiest

They believe in the Prophets (as) and Imams (as)

They believe continuity of Prophethood and interpet the day of judgement as being as a revelation that revives the previous ulul -azm Rasool revelation. So the revelation of Mohammad (pbuh) till Bab, bahallah, to them is yamal qayama of Isa revelation (as) and Isa (as) to Mohammad (pbuh) is the yamala qayama of Musa (as) revelation, and so on.

I don't think they are 'kuffar', because they believe in God and worship him and testify to hsi oneness sincerely

Salaams brother:

Bahais are not Ahle Kitab. When the flow of revelation ended with the Holy Prophet of Islam, then where is the question of a new sect which came more than 1200 years after the Holy Prophet to be classified as Ahle Kitab. in Quran, Ahle Kitab refers to the Jews and Christians. In another thread in the same discussion, I have clarified how the Bahais are kafirs as per Islamic definitions.

Regards

Imran Shaykh

www.bahaiawareness.com

(bismillah)

There is no doubt that they are kufr. It's not clear to me though whether they are Ahl al Khitab or not. I have read in some places that to be such one has to belong to either Judaism or Christianity.

In other places I have seen it written that one must simply believe in:

A.) The oneness of God

B.) One of the revealed books

C.) One of the Prophets

By that criteria, the Baha'i are certainly people of the book.

Regardless, I think the Iranian government is wrong in oppressing them considering they are on the path of monotheism.

Dear brother, Salaams:

If you wish you can look up www.bahaiawareness.com for the origin of the Bahai Faith and its relation to Islam. Bahais came with an Islamic background, but then their beliefs are tantamount to kufr.

Regards

Imran Shaykh

We have some friends who are bahai...i think there religion is a combination of judaism and islam, not sure though :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Salaam, Imran. I recently read where AbdulBaha said that in fact the manifestations of God were identical to God in terms of their divine attributes. Knowing this, I now change my opinion: Not only are the Bahai kufr, but they do not even believe in the true oneness of God(and hence I do not believe they believe in God at all).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

He's not lying. They say so themselves on the website you gave us:

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-2.html

Since the Messenger of God or Manifestation of God is the highest form of creation known to us, the Manifestation affords the most complete knowledge of God available to us...

To summarize: the Bahá'í view of God is that His essence is eternally transcendent, but that His attributes and qualities are completely immanent in the Manifestations.9 Since our knowledge of anything is limited to our knowledge of the perceptible attributes of that thing, knowledge of the Manifestations is (for ordinary humans) equivalent to knowledge of God.10 In practical terms, this knowledge is gained through study, prayer, meditation, and practical application based on the revealed Word of God (i.e., the sacred scriptures of the Manifestations).

Edited by Talib-e-Ilm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Salaams:

I am Imran Shaykh, the author of www.bahaiawareness.com. I saw a link to my web site from this forum so I decided to come here to check out the same. I went through the discussion so far and would like to clarify the following points.

1. Bahais are definitely kafirs - for the following reasons:

a. They believe in the concept of Manifestations of God, which is totally aginst the concept of Tawheed.

b. They do not accept the finality of Prophethood of the Holy Prophet of Islam. All Islamic sects are unanimous that the denial of the finality of the prophethood of the Holy Prophet of Islam is equivalent to kufr.

3. They deny the finality of the Quran and believe that the words of Bahaullah are superior to Quran despite all traditions to the contrary.

4. They deny physical resurrection. They believe that the world in which we are living in is the Heaven and Hell which is promised in Quran. Spiritual reward and punishment is what they believe in. Thus they deny Qiyamat and consequently, the words of Allah in Quran (close of 30% of Quran is about Qiyamat) and that of the Prophet and the Holy Imams (as).

5. They accept that Bahaullah is the "spiritual" return of Jesus Christ which again is contrary to the words of the Holy Prophet (saw) and the Imams (as)

Please feel free to visit my web site www.bahaiawareness.com for more information on the Bahais and also for any questions that you may have.

Regards

Imran Shaykh

(bismillah)

(salam)

Thank you brother Imran for your information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AOA,

Syed Ali Muhammad Bab and Mirza Hussain Ali Noori ( Bahaullah) never had claimed to be either a Propeht or the Promised Messiah.

Syed Ali Muhammad Bab introduced himself as Bab ( Gate ) and then a Law Bearing Imam Mahdi who came with a book Bayan whose rank was superior to the Holy Quran.

Bahaullah's teachings for his followers regarding himself prove that he was God who came down.

AH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how can they be a break-off from shiaism when they believe God can come in a physical form then?

Imam reza was very clear when he explained to Ma'mun this is completely not allowed

Edited by Rubaiyat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AOA,

This is true that Babis were Imamia Shias. Syed Ali Muhammad Bab first claimed to be the Bab for the 12th Imam. Later claimed to be Mahdi himself.

Bahais claim that Imam Mahdi was to come with a Book according to Shia narrations.

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/

AH

This will answer why he was not what you claim:

http://www.bahaiawareness.com/babc.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway for the shias here if you want good arguments against bahai converting machines then check this site:

http://www.bahaiawareness.com/

Many bahais have thanked brother Imran Shaykh for setting them straight through this site and have come back to islam.

Usman if you really want to know what prophecies relate to the true Imam Mehdi then I suggest you look under the Imam Mehdi forum as there are many prophecies which the Bab did not fulfill; however he did fulffill the muslim prophecy that after Mohammed (pbuh) 30 dajjals or false prophets will come trying to reform islam and to keep our distance from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AOA,

Brother! I also have a link for you.

http://aaiil.org/text/books/mali/historydo...imovement.shtml

This book is written by Maulana Muhammad Ali ( Founder of the Lahori Section of Ahmadis ).

I shall definitely visit the links you have provided. You also download the book mentioned above.

Honestly I have not read the book of Maulana Muhammad Ali. I read "Bahai Tehreek Per Tabsarah" and "Bahaiyyat ke mutalliq Paanch Maqaale" both written by Maulana Abu al Ata of Jamat-e-Ahmadiyya. Thats my source of information. Unfortunately, both books are not online otherwise I would have given you the link of those two books.

Syed Ali Muhammad Bab belonged to the Sheikhi Movement started within the Imamia Shias by Sheikh Ahsai. He claimed to be the Bab first and then the 12th Imam.

I know about the prophecy of 30 false prophets. You wrote

[ 30 dajjals or false prophets will come trying to reform islam ]

Can you provide me with the reference please as I have doubt on this part "trying to reform islam".

Thanks and Wassalam

Usman

Edited by Usman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ahmaddiyas have been discussed on this forum and we don't take their claims seriously

1) http://www.irshad.org/exposed.php

2) http://www.irshad.org/qadianism.php

3) http://www.khatmenubuwwat.org/

As for the 30 dajjals here you go:

http://al-islam.org/search.php?selected_ta...p;sid=140840430

Edited by koroigetsuga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AOA,

One should not reject Ahmadiyya Research on Bahai Faith just because the research is done by an Ahmadi. This is not a positive approach for students and scholars of Comparative Religions.

You gave me links I am going to conduct a research for sure. Otherwise if I have to follow your way why should I believe in the research of a Shia Muslim?

I am Ahmadi but a broad minded person. Why dont you check my all posts on this forum?

And the links you give here against my section these people are to Ahmadis like www.ansar.org and other anti-shia sites are to Shia Muslims.

I have not come here to debate my views. I have come here to learn. If moderators feel that I am a wrong person just let me know I will quit from this forum.

I shall give you proofs from Babi and Bahai books to prove my point. But if you have solid rebuttals I shall follow you.

Please provide me with the arabic text, translation and reference for that part of the report about 30 false prophets who will try to reform Islam.

[ 30 dajjals or false prophets will come trying to reform islam ]

Thanks.

AH

Edited by Usman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

brother bring your concerns to the shia/sunni section because regardless of its name that is the section where different muslim groups debate their views.......so open a new thread there and discuss your viewpoint

Edited by koroigetsuga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AOA Brother koroigetsuga,

I am not going to discuss my section on this discussion forum or any other forum on internet because of the reasons as under:

( 1 ) It is my experience that no one discuss "USOOL"/Major Differences. All start sending links from anti-Ahmadiyya sites and never follow a sequence. Instead of discussing the major differences, minor differences are put up for a lengthy discussion.

( 2 ) People start using bad language for Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian ( PBUH ) as well as the Caliphs of Ahmadiyya Jamaat who are Hadhrat Maulana Noor-ud-Din Azam ( RA ), Hadhrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmood Ahmad ( RA ), Hadhrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad ( RA ), Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad ( RA ) and Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad ( our Present Caliph ).

I am finding references for you to prove that Bab claimed to be "Al Qaem". I get back to you as quickly as possible.

AH

Edited by Usman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rational and Islamic way to refute the Ahmadi's is to first of all list what are the criteria for the Mahdi (as) appearence and what are the signs and whether or not those have been met or not. Clearly nothing new is to be bought by the Mahdi (as) and nothing abrogated whereas Ahmadi's abrogate 9/10 of Sharia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AOA,

UnderCoverBrother! You wrote,

[ The rational and Islamic way to refute the Ahmadi's is to first of all list what are the criteria for the Mahdi appearence and what are the signs and whether or not those have been met or not.]

Jews have much to show from OLD TESTAMENT to prove that Prophet Jesus ( PBUH ) was not the Promised Messiah ( God Forbid ). They also have a list of signs from Old Testament which were not fulfilled by Prophet Jesus ( PBUH ). With due respect I disagree with the approach you have mentioned above. Nations always reject the People sent by Allah Almighty because of these lists. This is a big reason why every Muslim Section is "SURE" that Imam Mahdi will come from his section.

As mentioned in the same thread I am not going to discuss my section here and reasons I already have mentioned in my post.

You further wrote,

[ Clearly nothing new is to be bought by the Mahdi and nothing abrogated whereas Ahmadi's abrogate 9/10 of Sharia. ]

Kindly let me know about the abrogation done by Jama'at-e-Ahmadiyya in the Sharia which is on such a high peak that you have to mention 9/10.

I am waiting for your kind response. Please take your time I am not in a rush. I mentioned in one of my previous posts that I have come here to learn.

AH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this from TALK.RELIGION.BAHAI

A Discussion Forum of Baha'is

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

FAQ (frequently asked questions) - new material added at bottom

== The following will be periodically re-posted==

Start HERE (Sourcewatch):

Baha'i Faith

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Baha%27i_Faith

A SPY AGENCY WORKING FOR BAHA'IS ON THE INTERNET

Search "Baha'i Internet Agency" on

http://www.sourcewatch.org/

Then see,

SECTS OF BAHAIS:

A Taxonomy of Baha'i Sects,

http://www.sectsofbahais.com/

&

Documentary film by independent Israeli film maker Naama Pyritz:

BAHA'IS IN MY BACKYARD

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...06&hl=en-AU

LAWSUIT FIGHT BETWEEN DIFFERENT SECTS OF BAHA'IS

US NSA vs OBF (Orthodox Baha'i Faith)

Recent court victory by the Orthodox Baha'is, and the suit brought by

the Haifan Bahai organization against them:

http://trueseeker.typepad.com/true_seeker/court_case.html

Judge's decision

http://www.truebahai.info/court/139-opinion.pdf

**Appellate hearing (Feb 2009)***

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/LF1FFZY0.mp3

BAHAI Tactics & Techniques

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,

Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,

Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,

Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,

Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

1. As far as possible they hold back from responding

2. Then they claim no knowledge of the given issue by feigning ignorance

3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues

4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind, biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to the main issue exposed)

5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer, i.e. shoot the messenger

6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed while supporting the bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais

-

See as well Sourcewatch article

-

THEORY OF BAHA’I LYING & EQUIVOCATION

See Susan Stiles Maneck,

http://bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr06/62_maneck_hikmat.htm

WISDOM AND DISSIMULATION IN THE BAHA’I WRITINGS: The Use and meaning of Hikmat in the Baha’i Writings

QUOTE

"In many cases hikmat calls for the apparent suspension of a Bahá'í

principle in order to ensure the protection of the Faith."

-

BAHA'I ADMINISTRATIVE IDOLATRY & STALINISM

QUOTE

"We don't want to be like those people who want to see God with their

own eyes, or hear His melody with their own ears, because we have been

given the gift of being able to see through the eyes of the House of

Justice and listen through the ears of the House of Justice." - Bahai

Counselor Rebeque Murphy

To hear this section of her talk go to:

http://media1.bahai.us/tab/Highlights/Sund...r_Murphy_Rema...

BAHAI NOTIONS of FREEDOM of CONSCIENCE according to EX-UHJ member DOUGLAS MARTIN -- Monday, September 23, 2001

http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm

Quote

"We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our

individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the

end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in

the greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal

convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is

supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent

to the Teachings of the Faith."

http://www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html

NOTE especially, S.G. Wilson,

BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS ASSASSINATION The Muslim World vol. 4, issue 4,

1914

&

BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS DECEPTION The Muslim World, Volume 5, Issue 2,

1914-1915.

at,

http://wahidazal66.googlepages.com/babidoc...sternsources%29

See as well, BAHAISM AND THE BRITISH

http://bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home

BAHA'I SCAM-ARTISTRY & FRAUD IN THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES: A Multi-

Milliard Rial Scam* By A Baha’i Company in Dubai

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.rel...8df7dca08d52ce#

FBI raids office of Baha’i at Univ. Florida

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.rel...b8eb9f1758c241b

BAHAI BUSINESS PRACTICES IN THE USA

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.rel...706298e9a9cd6f#

BAHAI SPY RING IN INDIA BUSTED

http://groups.google.com.au/group/soc.cult...8727004d825a589

&

BAHA’I CONTROL ON THEIR ELECTORAL SYSTEM – EXPOSED (Structural

features of Bahai Stalinism)

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.rel...36c4cedf90dea5b

Note

Baha'u'llah Says : On the Critics of the Cause In Ma'idih-i-Asmani, vol. 4, page 355

http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MAS4/mas4-355.html

Translation by Wahid Azal (Jan. 7, 2009)

Chapter 11

The Critics of the Cause of God (munkirin-i-amru'llah)

The Ancient Beauty in the Tablet of Habib from Maragha, which begins

with "H B hear the call of God from the direction of the throne by the

protective signs/verses (bi-ayati muhayyimin)..etc." they [i.e. Husayn

'Ali Nuri] enunciate the command (mi-farmayand) [i.e. state],

By God, the Truth, whomsoever criticizes it [i.e. Baha'ism], [which

is] possessed of the manifest, the brilliant, the high and the

perspicuous excellence, it behoveth him to ask his mother [yanbaghi

lahu bi-an yas'al min ummihi] about his origins [or 'state',

i.e.'hal', meaning he should inquire his mother about his legitimate

conception – trans.], for he shall return to the nethermost hell

[asfal al-jahim]"…

In Promulgation of Universal Peace p. 322 the following is quoted by

'Abbas Effendi from a prayer by his father, cf. THE BAHA'I FAITH AND

ISLAM (ed.) Heshmat Moayyad (The Association for Baha'i Studies:

Ottawa, 1990), p.23

O God! Whomsoever violates My Covenant, O God, humiliate him. Verily

whosoever violates My Covenant, erase and efface him.

-

Note Dr Sa'eed Khan on the Baha'is he knew

From Mission Problems in New Persia, 1926, p. 83, 87 & 89 quoted by

William McElwee Miller in The Baha'i Faith: It's History and

Teachings, 1973, p. 289.

"...There is no conscience with them [ i.e. the Baha'is], they keep

to no principle, they tell you what is untrue, ignoring or denying

undoubted historical facts, and this is the character of both the

leader and the led...As to morality and honesty, the whole system has

proved disappointing...I have been in contact with many Baha'is, and

have had dealings with many and have tested many, and unfortunately I

have met not a single one who could be called honest or faithful in

the full sense of these words..."

Dr Sa'eed Khan [was] a highly-respected physician...who had as a

doctor treated the second widow of the Bab, and had for a lifetime

known intimately both Babis [i.e. Bayanis] and Baha'is in Tehran and

Hamadan.

-

See

William McElwee Miller *THE BAHA'I FAITH: It's History and Teachings

http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/a...ee%20Miller.htm

Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, BROKEN SILENCE

http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/a...okenSilence.pdf

Vance Salisbury, AN EXAMINATION OF SUPPRESSION AND DISTORTION IN 20th-

CENTURY BAHA'I LITERATURE

http://bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/suppression.html

-

See as well,

http://www.bayanic.com [CLICK tab BAHAISM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...