Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Ali82

Taqleed

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(bismillah) (salam)

I have a simple question, can i change the person of whom i am doing taqleed, when i was younger my quranteacher said that we need to do taqleed, and since i did not no who to follow he said that ayatullah Khamanei is a marja and that I should follow him. So I and my 2 sisters said " i hearby declare that i am in the taqleed of Ayatullah Khamanei" or something like that, since then i have become more aware of religious affairs, and i have found Grand Ayatullah Sistani to be if not more but at least equal to Ayatullah Khamanei, and my question is

can i change marja, and is my first "choice" valid, since I "chose" without much knowledge,

Thank you for your answers in advance / Ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

It would ne inaccurate to say that Syed Khamieni is 'better' than Syed Sistani. Perhaps it should be on par with Syed Sistani?

I'm going through the same thing myself, albeit in that whilst follwoing Syed Sestani, I'm still following Syed Khoie. However, a few people have said that Syed Sestani's now considered to be at a more leading figure, and that it's eaiser to follow him.

Wa`Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

Thanks for the answers, no i dont live in iran, my qurantecher follows Ayatullah Khamanei, my question is not as to who is better, rather if one can change marjaa at all, and if one can, is there a niyyat involved, or is it something else one needs to do ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hmm i have a question somewhat simmilar...u do not actually have to make a declaration of who ur marja is do u ?

I mean it really is not important to say it out loud as the brother said or is it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

I think you shoudl e-mail sayyed Sistani and ask his office what u need to do . that way u get the PERFECT answer according to the most reliable source, I dont know his email but i think i've seen people say he has a website on www.najaf.org but im not sure

ws

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe you can switch taqlid at any time, but I think its only under two circumstances:

1. You discover that another maraja is more knowledgeable.

2. Your current marja passes away...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
where r u living england? are your parents muslims? or apostate iranians like mine lol? who told u to foloow khamieni

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have not answered the brother's question, instead you are more interested in slagging off a religious leader, the Islamic Republic and the brother's parents. Shame on you. You seem a perfect example of people who would go to any extend to critise Iran even at the expense of basic islamic principles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

you should follow Sayed Sistani you follow who ever is the more knowledgeable and is still alive

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a option whereby if you were following a certain Marja, and he passed away, you can continue to follow him, I believe with the permission of the current Marja that's considered to be higher.

Wa`Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

If you follow a scholar and then after asking 'ahl al3ilim'(poeple of knowledge) you find out that another scholar is more 'a3lam',then it is a MUST on you to switch from this scholar to the more a3lam.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

(salam)

so as i understand i can chnage marjaa as long as i believe the "new" one to have have greater knowledge ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^^ It is not "as long as you believe" it is as long as 'ahl al3ilim' believe,when i say ahl al3ilim(poeple of knowledge) those not poeple like us,those are people who knows much more deep in this area,usualy they are also scholars themselves,scolar's students...Again once you ask and get a firm trustful answer that this X scholar is more knowledgable from Y,then it is MUST for you to change.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

What about the portionment of khums? say a persons financial year is 31st December,

and he changes the taqlid from one marja to another as of today, will the annual calculation of khums need to be apportioned prorata wise according to the number of days? or does he need to pay the full amount to the existing marja as on 31st December?

Wasalaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As salaam alaykum,

"The most knowledgeable" is a relative term. Depending upon whom you ask, a person may say 'such & such Grand Ayt." is most knowledgeable or this "Grand Ayt." is most knowledgeable. None of us can say that one marja is more knowledgeable than the other as it will always be relative. What we can say is that based upon personal research, you have found that a particular marja is better suited for you to follow in terms of your daily amal. You do not need to make a public announcement of your marja is. Now what I am saying is an easier approach considering where I live and my conditions. In terms of fiqh, akhi, honestly most of the marjas agree on over 95% of things. However, if you follow Ayt. Khameini, you need to make yourself knowledgeable of wilayatul faqih. There are implications and subtleties behind the concept that many do not understand. You also have to ask yourself are you a "quietist" or an "activist". This does come into play. May Allah bless you and may Imam Zaman (as) continue to guide you towards our Lord (SWT).

As salaam alaykum,

Djibril

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah) (salam)

Ahh its already a bit complicated matter and I m making it more BUT WHAT CAN I DO AS I AM VERY MUCH CONFUSED :(

CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME WITH AUTHENTIC SOURCE THAT WHAT IS AYATULLAH SAYED SEESTANI(RA)VIEW ON WILAYATUL FAQIH????? PLEASE PLEASE :)

Wassalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most scholars, including Ayt. Sistani, do not agree with the concept of wilayatul faqih as it is presented in Iran. They feel the role of the jurist, within the Shia context, is only to guidance in terms of daily amal. They do not wish to be politcally active, at least not outright. This is why I asked the question to the questioner to determine if they are more of a "quietist" or an "activist". These two stances have always been present among the ulema since the earliest times. Scholars such as Ayt. Sistani do believe in wilayatul faqih but a have a more limited and conservative view regarding its practical application. This is why you do not see politics referenced in a risalah.

Wa Salaam,

Djibril

(bismillah)  (salam)

Ahh its already a bit complicated matter and I m making it more BUT WHAT CAN I DO AS I AM VERY MUCH CONFUSED :(

CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME WITH AUTHENTIC SOURCE THAT WHAT IS AYATULLAH SAYED SEESTANI(RA)VIEW ON WILAYATUL FAQIH????? PLEASE PLEASE  :)

Wassalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ok Jazakallah Bro. Djibril :)

Can u please tell me what are those limited and conservative view....hmm I mean how should we look to it.In our daily life problems/situation we should follow Ayatullah Seestani(RA) rulings ONLY?And nothing regarding Wilayatul Faqih......one more question "Why to follow Wilayatul Faqih and in what manner for those who follow?"

Sorry If I m getting way to much but I m so confused about this and sometimes seems like "hey I m doing this wrong that wrong..everything wrong" :( :(

Wassalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

a very wrong concept which says " folowing the a'alam" "the most knowledgable" was refuted by sayyed fadlallah. he says there is no "alam" .

also he has tab3eeth which means you can folow other scholars based on your openion on the topic when your informed about it.

if your with other scholars you will be stuck with them to death lol some even after death u must folow them (joke)

it all comes down to your marja3 u must ask him to change. but why change from khamenie to sistani? look at sistanis men . i know the top sistanis wakils are mony seeking people. liek kashmirie. they also allways try to put fadllah down without proof or evidence. and sistani never talks they made him like a statue, he should rebel against them and talk more often and fix his office. i say that type pf marji3 is good for fiqh issues but not as a full marji3 who could be leader, a leader needs to be involved in everything and talk alot.

i would recomend fadlalah, khamenie, nasrallah and people like this with all respect to others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

u can follow who u want regarding shariah, and I agree there is no full expert on that except Imam Al-Zaman (as)

however, when it comes to aqeeda, knowledge, and paths to God, u can't just follow anybody, and if u remain blind in this world u will be blind in the next and worst off in error just like the Quran says, so everyone should not just tell themselves, i follow my marjaa, taking his view of things other then fiqh, thinking that his marjaa will able to pass away his error, he will be in for a big suprise! and if thats what marjaaiya is that its the same as how jews and chrisitians toke their scholars as arbaban, and if anyone thinks u can follow an opinion of a marjaa then u is just like the jews and christians, u can only follow the ijtihad of a marjaa because u deem trustworthy to sincerely to ijitihad through Quran and Sunna (logic makes conclusions with these things and yes this seprates us from akhbaris who just follow their desires), if anything he does on his own, through his own self, he is not a shia of Ahlulbayt (as) and u can open al-kafi and read tons of hadiths on that, and comparing with older rules is not acceptable aswell, thats called qiyas and is totally haram, if its not found in Quran and Hadiths, then u can't make a ruling, rulings are based on the scholars ijtihad of those two things

politics, spiritual knowledges, social knowledges, aqeeda, things were there is no conflicting hadiths, see sermon 18 of nahjul balagha Imam Ali (as) on that, difference is not allowd, ofcourse everyone has their own levels but if u don't know u should not deny a thing of knowledge nor follow what u don't know, tatamount of denial is kufr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^^ok Jazakallah Bro. Djibril :)

Can u please tell me what are those limited and conservative view....hmm I mean how should we look to it.In our daily life problems/situation we should follow  Ayatullah Seestani(RA) rulings ONLY?And nothing regarding Wilayatul Faqih......one more question "Why to follow Wilayatul Faqih and in what manner for those who follow?"

Sorry If I m getting way to much but I m so confused about this and sometimes seems like "hey I m doing this wrong that wrong..everything wrong" :(  :(

Wassalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As salaam alaykum,

By "limited and conservative", I mean ulema such as Ayt. Sistani only believe in wilaytul faqih in terms of receiving khums and coming to them in terms of daily amal. They do not wish to engage in political activities nor do they really encourage it. I have to agree to disagree with them on this issue. The role of the people of God can not be limited solely to daily amal which can get one to heaven but if all the ulema took this position, the Shia will always be oppressed and depressed people depending on non-Muslims to save us. Why do I say this? The reality is that the Arab governments in power now could care less if every Shia on this planet were to die tomorrow. We no longer have, with the exception of a few, ulema who are willing to enjoin the good and forbid the wrong. I do not say this to put down Ayt. Sistani. He knows and understands his position better than I. I just disagree with ulema who do not wish to engage in the political arena. They have a responsibility whether they like it or not to help lead, to help govern. Islam, after all, is a wholistic belief-faith-rational system that does not seperate one's daily amal from their politics to their conduct at the workplace to their conduct in the privacy of their bedroom. Everything we do is nothing more than a building block for other spheres of activity we engage in.

Is total wilayatul faqih good? Not in this day and age. The ulema run the risk of alienating the people and establishing themselves as a sort of caste like the Hindus or as the ancient Zoroastrians did. Some already do this. The ulema are ulema because the people recognize them as such. When the people no longer recognize them as ulema then they are no longer ulema.

So what are you saying, Bro.Djibril? I am saying that in a society without Imam Zaman (as), may his return be hastened, there should be representation from all walks of life within that Muslim country i.e. Iraq, Iran, etc. and includes the ulema as long as the representatives are trustworthy and fit to lead and are able to refrain from corruption. Full wilayatul faqih is subject to the discretion of a non-masoom individual who is not personally appointed by Imam (as) and is rational for pluralistic societies.

Wa Salaam,

Djibril

I pray I have not offended anyone. If I have, you are more than free to discuss this issue outside of this forum with me by just sending me a private message. That way we don't bog this forum down.

Salaams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Walaikum Assalam Brother it didn't offended me but abt others I dont know.

Still I need to learn about it more...Can i first ask about who is your mujtahid IF I M NOT ASKING SOMETHING WRONG... :)

I just want to learn the concept of wilayatul faqih coz its getting really confused and disturbing for me...So any kind of help be anyone will be appreciating.

I got to understand it but what Ayat. Seestani(RA) says is that he should not be engaged in politics I mean wilayatul faqih?So a mujtahid sould not be political leader?

I think i'll talk about this on PM with you...coz i will not only make others confuse but i'll make my self look stupid too coz MY HEAD IS ABSOLUTELY EMPTY WHEN IT COMES TO WILAYATUL FAQIH :( ....sorry to bother u so much brother. :)

Wassalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

Our Taqleed is solely to Imam-e-Zamana (as) as it cannot be proven for anyone else inlight of the Quran and Ahadeeth.

The wilayat-e-Faqih business is also not from the Quran and Ahadeeth but a man made theory to gain power.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^Walaikum Assalam Brother it didn't offended me but abt others I dont know.

Still I need to learn about it more...Can i first ask about who is your mujtahid IF I M NOT ASKING SOMETHING WRONG... :)

I just want to learn the concept of wilayatul faqih coz its getting really confused and disturbing for me...So any kind of help be anyone will be appreciating.

I got to understand it but what Ayat. Seestani(RA) says is that he should not be engaged in politics I mean wilayatul faqih?So a mujtahid sould not be political leader?

I think i'll talk about this on PM with you...coz i will not only make others confuse but i'll make my self look stupid too coz MY HEAD IS ABSOLUTELY EMPTY WHEN IT COMES TO WILAYATUL FAQIH :( ....sorry to bother u so much brother. :)

Wassalam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As salaam alaykum,

Sis., you didn't ask anything wrong but I don't tell who I give taqleed too as it is personal matter based upon my own research. I do not want to add any personal bias I may have but encourage you to read the works of Ayt. Khomeini. You can pm me and I will reference some readings in English for you and if you have any question about terminologies, I will try to answer to my best. If I can't, we will find the answer together.

Regarding taqleed and wilayatul faqih, I will say this, it is imperative that we, the Shia of Ali, become knowledgeable of what it is we follow. If we follow anything we can believe everything. Despite what people may say about the West, one thing no one can say is that within the West an insatiable drive to know is pervasive. It permeates Western thought.

I disagree and agree with my brother, Sajid Naqvi, to an extent. While the concept of wilayatul faqih may be "man based" it is a logical conclusion to come too in light of the absence of our beloved Imam Zaman (as). Imam Khomeini (ra) could fit the role of the of concept because he was not only grounded in matters of fiqh but he was grounded in matters of the heart. The jurist who only knows fiqh is limited in compassion. The true jurist, the true wilayatul faqih is a jurist who knows God as well as God's laws. Personally, I look for the jurist who is a man of God not just a man of the law. What are you saying, Djibril? Isn't every jurist a man of God? Not if they don't have compassion or understanding of those who follow them. I still don't understand, Djibril. What do you mean? When you see mujtahids who can't reach the hearts of their followers and motivate them towards progress, towards enlightenment, towards a deeper understanding of their relationship with God, the Sublime, that is a mujtahid who is only grounded in external issues. Islam is a balanced religion. Islam is a complete package. It can be marketed anywhere for anyone at any time. The role of the mujtahid is primarily to teach as the Qur'an says, 'let a party from among you stay behind...' (See Surah 9;ayt. 122 I believe). Stay behind to do what? Receive khums? To just lead Friday prayers? No. Their primary function is too teach but the teacher is only an extension of the student and both are a microcosm of society thus the teacher and the student have an obligation to society/community. When the teacher forgets they are a student and they forget they are servants of the people then you have nothing more than a caste system. I see so many who wear the turban and the outfit and somehow forget their turbans are bought from the khums of the people. Their education, their stipends come from the pockets of the people. There is no ulema without the people.

I do not accept wilayatul faqih as it is now because those who need to step up and should have stepped up, didn't. PM me and I will attempt to explain more. However, I will only provide information. You will have to make your own judgement. I will not try to sway you one way or another. The main thing is too never forget you are a Shia of Ali which by extension makes you a Shia of Muhammad (SAW). Take care and may Allah bless you always.

Wa Salaam,

Djibril

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jazakallah Brother!

I think I m understanding things more now and will understand even much nicely soon Inshallah. :) Thanks for your time brother and Inshallah I'll PM you just give me two days more coz of Ashura Majalis.

May AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáìbless us all with his mercy alwayz.(Ameen)

Wassalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wa Salaam,

I want to clarify something I said. I said that Islam is a complete package. This needs defining. The Islam we have today is not nor will it be the Islam of Imam Zaman (as). The hadith literature says when Imam (as) returns, the Islam he brings back will be a strange Islam to us. In other words, he will remove all the ambiguities and culturalisms and other isms that have crept into our religion. Is the Islam we have today enough to get you through life? Yes. From the cradle to the grave. We have enough books and mujtahids to help us with fiqh. You also need the saints of God. Those who, like a mechanic, can jumpstart the heart and cause it to quake with the remembrance of God. In my vernacular or language, we have a saying, "what is a DJ if he can't scratch (never mind my Western background)?" I have saying, "what is a shaykh if he can't cause you to quake?" Quake? Yes, quake as in earthquake. Quake with the remembrance of Allah. There is no law without love and there is no love without law/parameters. Take care and my Allah guide us all.

Wa Salaam,

Djibril

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to research the topic of Taqleed you have to see both sides of the argument - Pro taqleed arguments can be presented by members here but Anti taqleed is not allowed here so i would direct you to 2 books (Click on the names to open the books)

KASHAF UL HAQAIQ : This book discusses Taqleed indepth with arguments against all the evidence that are presented in favour of Taqleed : Masha Allah a very conclusive and amazing book

KASHAF UL TAZAD :: A compilation of Hundreds upon hundred of Fatwas from Top scholars which oppose each other upto the level where one calls something Halaal and the other Calls the same thing Haraam, One calls something as Tahir and the other Calls the same thing as ain-e-najasat. This book clarifies that the claim that there are only minor differences between the Scholars is a mere slogan with no wisdom in it and is raised to give people a false sense of confidence which does not exist.

Hope the above is helpful in addition to the pro taqleed arguments that are presented by other members

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah) (salam)

Pro taqleed arguments can be presented by members here but Anti taqleed is not allowed here so i would direct you to 2 books

:huh:

My small mind is unable to understand what u said here.Can u elaborate it, Just a bit coz reading the books will take some time Right?400 pages :o

Wassalam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...