Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Serenity`

Hijab Ban in Australia?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

all those that are calling (or supporting the call) for muslim women to remove their hair covering are nothing but perverts ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That’s a perfectly rational, reasonable approach… for irrational, unreasonable Islamists.

Right then, jihad against the perverts and beat the women with sticks if they dare shed their sacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That’s a perfectly rational, reasonable approach… for irrational, unreasonable Islamists.

Right then, jihad against the perverts and beat the women with sticks if they dare shed their sacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Veritas...

I'm confused. Please explain to me how asking women to remove hijab is a "perfectly rational, reasonable approach" to fighting terrorism? I seriously don't see the connection.

Curious Infidel pointed out in another thread... that hijab really does not have anything to do with terrorism, and people are mixing up the two, which is sad. I completely agree with him.

The perverts that beat women with sticks for not wearing burqa... that is another issue... how can you compare that to forcing Muslim women to take off their hijabs in Australia? I seriously do not see the connection.

Wasalaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they force by law the innocent school girl to remove her sacred hair covering

a reality of the "liberal, democratic, tolerant and free society" earth shattering

violating her choices, violating her sacred duty

violating her personal space, violating her dignity

a small cloth, reveals truths, more profound, they leave innocent school girls suffering

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ihlaas-  al the things you mentioned are illegal.  teachers aren't allowed to sell heroin to their students.  obviously a teacher selling heroin to her students is worse than a muslim woman wearing a hijab.  But if muslim women don't wear hijabs people will be less afraid of them.  non muslims are afraid of people in america who dress like they are in the middle east.  not because they don't like the clothes, but because they associate them with terrorists.  It'ss not their job to know the different kind of muslims and non muslims.  do yuo WANT people to be afraid of you?

If bin laden hadn't gotten people to drive planes into the WTC no one would be asking anyone not to waer anything.  It's because of terrorism.  If France had asked people not to wear hijabs in 1995 people would have thought they were crazy.

I don't know if you noticed, but the big story these days is TERRORISM.  It's not like hijab bans are coming out as random acts of rascism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lester,

I agree to a certain extent with you - banning hijab is probably not coming out as random acts of racism. However, it is not the CORRECT steps to be taken to end terrorism.

Terrorism is a much larger issue, and laying the burden on hijab really makes no sense. To say, "Oh, muslims got it easy, it's only hijab, Japanese had it much worse..." ... does that REALLY justify forcing women to remove hijab? Honestly, you can't compare the two... "You should feel lucky since they're not killing you." Taking away civil liberties is still a major violation of rights in my opinion.

And I think you also have to understand something - removing hijab for some Muslim women is worse than anything else in the world. Karbala happened so many years ago, and we still mourn the fact that Bibi Zaynab (as) had to leave her tent uncovered... it IS a big deal, no matter how insignificant it may seem to you.

Wasalaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how denying someone their choice to hajib is fighting terrorism. If I were a terrorist or sabateur the last thing I would do is wear something that identifies me as a member of that group. For instance if I werea user of illicit drugs I would not wear a shirt with slogans or pictures of those drugs on it.

Am I correct in assuming that identifiers of any faith would be disallowed?

What was the cause of this move, has their been trouble in the schools. Schools being places of learning and personal growth should use this as an educational opportunity Also banning religious items because of some kind of conflict is a good example of consructive conflict resolution.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know how denying someone their choice to hajib is fighting terrorism. If I were a terrorist or sabateur the last thing I would do is wear something that identifies me as a member of that group. For instance if I werea user of illicit drugs I would not wear a shirt with slogans or pictures of those drugs on it.

Am I correct in assuming that identifiers of any faith would be disallowed?

What was the cause of this move, has their been trouble in the schools. Schools being places of learning and personal growth should use this as an educational opportunity Also banning religious items because of some kind of conflict is a good example of consructive conflict resolution.

Peace

There hasn't been any actual banning of said attire ... but one previously senior government miniter (an another backbencher know for their incitment of controversy) have come out and indicated that they are in favour of a ban ... the provokation for such incitment is purely hysteria ... it is seen as an attempt by the current government of starting the debate to prepare the ground work for such an act ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very confused here.

Since when did the hajib become sacred and a must for Muslim women?

Alot of Muslim women in SouthEast Asia do not wear the hajib, so by the standards of the Muslim in this board, do you consider them perverts or something undesirable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know how denying someone their choice to hajib is fighting terrorism. If I were a terrorist or sabateur the last thing I would do is wear something that identifies me as a member of that group. For instance if I werea user of illicit drugs I would not wear a shirt with slogans or pictures of those drugs on it.

Am I correct in assuming that identifiers of any faith would be disallowed?

What was the cause of this move, has their been trouble in the schools. Schools being places of learning and personal growth should use this as an educational opportunity Also banning religious items because of some kind of conflict is a good example of consructive conflict resolution.

Peace

There hasn't been any actual banning of said attire ... but one previously senior government miniter (an another backbencher know for their incitment of controversy) have come out and indicated that they are in favour of a ban ... the provokation for such incitment is purely hysteria ... it is seen as an attempt by the current government of starting the debate to prepare the ground work for such an act ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Digi my friend,

Perhaps it is nothing more than a couple of minor political figures struggling for attention. This is what I hope.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Digi my friend,

Perhaps it is nothing more than a couple of minor political figures struggling for attention. This is what I hope.

Peace

I share your hope ... my reason prevail ... peace and justice to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those of you who don't understand, Just recently Prime Minister John Howard, said that he wanted greater Australian values being taught in Islamic schools. He said he wanted young Muslims to grow up being tolerant and taking pride in their country. Nothing new, all this is covered by Islam; anyway schools have ensured John Howard that they will continue to teach exactly that and Johnny himself should have known that this is already being taught anyway, because if it wasn't, they wouldn't receive funding.

Now, if John Howard doesn't put this woman in place (the one who wants hijab banned), than he himself should be taught Australian values and he should take his own advice. Hypocricy, is far from being a virtue.

By the way, for those who implied that we should sacrifice our Hijab's because of the war on terror, than maybe religious freedom shouldn't be a human right. Infact, if you seriously feel that way, than your ignorance has blinded you. (In my experience, discussion in a civillised manner, with an open mind, has helped.. alot.)

Peace,

Zeinab.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For those of you who don't understand, Just recently Prime Minister John Howard, said that he wanted greater Australian values being taught in Islamic schools. He said he wanted young Muslims to grow up being tolerant and taking pride in their country. Nothing new, all this is covered by Islam; anyway schools have ensured John Howard that they will continue to teach exactly that and Johnny himself should have known that this is already being taught anyway, because if it wasn't, they wouldn't receive funding.

Now, if John Howard doesn't put this woman in place (the one who wants hijab banned), than he himself should be taught Australian values and he should take his own advice. Hypocricy, is far from being a virtue.

By the way, for those who implied that we should sacrifice our Hijab's because of the war on terror, than maybe religious freedom shouldn't be a human right. Infact, if you seriously feel that way, than your ignorance has blinded you. (In my experience, discussion in a civillised manner, with an open mind, has helped.. alot.)

Peace,

Zeinab.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It never cesses to amaze me how those of you who are so quick to cite our unease with aspects of Islam as being ignorant. You appeal to our countries tolerance as a reason for you to be allowed to carry on regardless.

I don’t give a monkeys as to whether this particular garb is good bad or indifferent.

You all have a chance to show some tolerance for those whose countries have allowed you to live and prosper.

Already Britain which was one of the most tolerant countries on earth is reaching a cross roads with Islam, no matter what our governmental leaders do or say, it will in the next few years be taken out of their hands and you will have killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

So go ahead and continue in this same vein, as long as your entrenched stand and ostrich like approach to the problem continues you are heaping up the wood for Islam’s funeral pyre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

To my Muslim sisters in Australia,

There is no point in debating this. The Western governments have proven that they will ban Islamic dress if they can (i.e., if their people allow it). The reason is that that secular governments see any open expression of religious affiliation as a challenge to their authority. I'm sure that the U.S. government (my government) would ban Islamic dress (hijab) in public schools if they could get away with it, however, they wouldn't be able to. They only reason the U.S. government was able to intern innocent Japenese Americans during WWII, and destroy their lives in the process, is because THEY ALLOWED THEMSELVES TO BE TAKEN AWAY.

So Austrailian Muslim women, please start the following NOW,

1.) Educate your government representatives (write, fax, call, email) as to why Muslim women in Australia will NOT give up their hijab for any reason.

2.) If this does not work, organize large, public (and peaceful, of course) demonstrations to educate the Austrialian people on why the proud and brave Muslim women of Austrailia will not give up their hijab for any reason.

3.) If the ban is implemented anyway, either encourage your girls to continue to wear hijab in school (that's hard to do, but I swear, by Allah (s.w.a.) that I would tell my daughter to do that, even if she was taken to jail), or, remove your daughters from public school and educate them at home or in Islamic schools.

These bans will only drive a wedge between the Muslims and non-Muslims in coutries where these bans are implemented and will NOT result in Muslim "integration" into Western societies (i.e., Muslims becoming secular in public life). The problem is that Western societies will not recognize this reality until the wedge creates irreconcilable differences between Muslims and non-Muslims, and this is NOT what Muslims want.

P.S. It would be helpful if some Austrailian sister would post contact info for the Aus. parliment members who would be most receptive to our message.

Edited by Ali Zaki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(bismillah)

To my Muslim sisters in Australia,

There is no point in debating this. The Western governments have proven that they will ban Islamic dress if they can (i.e., if their people allow it). The reason is that that secular governments see any open expression of religious affiliation as a challenge to their authority. I'm sure that the U.S. government (my government) would ban Islamic dress (hijab) in public schools if they could get away with it, however, they wouldn't be able to. They only reason the U.S. government was able to intern innocent Japenese Americans during WWII, and destroy their lives in the process, is because THEY ALLOWED THEMSELVES TO BE TAKEN AWAY.

So Austrailian Muslim women, please start the following NOW,

1.) Educate your government representatives (write, fax, call, email) as to why Muslim women in Australia will NOT give up their hijab for any reason.

2.) If this does not work, organize large, public (and peaceful, of course) demonstrations to educate the Austrialian people on why the proud and brave Muslim women of Austrailia will not give up their hijab for any reason.

3.) If the ban is implemented anyway, either encourage your girls to continue to wear hijab in school (that's hard to do, but I swear, by Allah (s.w.a.) that I would tell my daughter to do that, even if she was taken to jail), or, remove your daughters from public school and educate them at home or in Islamic schools.

These bans will only drive a wedge between the Muslims and non-Muslims in coutries where these bans are implemented and will NOT result in Muslim "integration" into Western societies (i.e., Muslims becoming secular in public life). The problem is that Western societies will not recognize this reality until the wedge creates irreconcilable differences between Muslims and non-Muslims, and this is NOT what Muslims want.

P.S. It would be helpful if some Austrailian sister would post contact info for the Aus. parliment members who would be most receptive to our message.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha Ha Ha, the Muslim community in Britain has built walls around itself due to the fact that we have given them total freedom and no reason to integrate into British society, They don’t even have to learn English the most universal language on the planet!

Muslims do not integrate in Britain and I would say it is the same picture elsewhere.

Muslims are also the most intolerant of all our citizens, finding fault and complaining relentlessly over what they find offensive and they find offence in everything.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sweeter than salsabeel

okay before anything... Ancient Briton which frickin century are you in??? :huh: and what in the name of socks are you going on about?? i was just in London BRITAIN for five frickin weeks, and IM MUSLIM. Everywhere you go, you know in SOCIETYYYYY , theres muslims EVERYWHERE. OH AND I SPOKE ENGLISH ALL THE TIME!!!!!!! AND EVERYONE I KNEW, KNEW ENGLISH TOOO !!! coming from canada it was nice to see so many hijabis and muslims. and no i wasnt in the secret little town villages where we do nothing but pray. cause you know what , there are NOT any. so quit the made up garbage and stick to the facts. built walls around themselves????? in what the mosques?? so what you want us to forget our religion completelty???? so what some might go to an islamic school, is that sucha big deal? School and MOsque don't completely isolate you from the society you know. How ignorant can you get. In britain, muslims are A HUGE part of the society, dont go saying stupid things like they dont even have to learn english and dont integrate into society. seriously. i already thought the world was stupid. you make me think they're totally brainless, and the fact that your brian functions to type out and post things makes me absolutely speechless and stunned.

Veritas... the fact that you can even for a minute think that this is justified makes me wonder if you think what HItler did was justified. There is no justification. Last time I checked we (hijabis) werent harming anyone by wearing hijab. Oh, well on one thought... we might not be letting you oogle at us and look at how hot we are....... SORRY ABOUT THAT... like really im soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry that we dont give you something to look at!!!! like SOOOOOOOO SORRYYYY!!!! REALLY REALLY RAELLY SORRYY!!!! ( sorry i just felt like i needed to make sure you understood the sarcasm :) )

oh and really. i mean its totally our fault that some idiots are idiots. TOTALLY , like DUDE OMG WE SHOUDL BE PUNISHED AND MADE TO TAKE OFF OUR HIJABS BECAUSE SOME IDIOTS THAT THINK THEY SHARE THE SAME FRICKIN RELIGION AS US BUT DONT FOLLOW IT... LIKE TOTALLY WE SHOULD SUFFER AND BLAME THE RELIGION.

PLEASE. its sad how a religion can be blamed by a bunch of ignorant people just because of the people taht follow it. you dont see anybody blaming catholicism for molesting children, what with the huge amount of priests that were doing it?? how come when its muslims and Islam you can blame everyone but when its your own you dont? wheres the justice? do you NOT see?? does YOUR BRAIN FUNCTION???

you go on saying [Edited Out] that were LUCKY??? lucky for what??? to live in such a shallow world where you think taking off our hijabs is gonna solve TERRORIST problems???? Don't you think this just might anger the terorrists more???

you say how do you know theyre' not REAL muslims. youre on a frickin shia chat website. yet you still dont know anything about islam. SHOCKING isnt it?

since when did the practicers of religion follow thier own religions?? Lets take another religion for example....

Whens the last time you saw a jew stay away from pork and eat only koshered meat?

Now, i dont care what they do, they can do whatever they want. but im just proving that people HARDLY practice their religions the RIGHT way, or FOLLOW it. You'd be surprised at the small percentage of Muslim females wearing hijab in the western world (which by the way Ancient Briton, you wouldnt know cuz theyre so integrated into the society). Now you want the people that might actually be follwoing the religion the right way to take it off because some idiots didnt follow it the right way???

Wheres the justice?? What happend to living in a free world where we're being given our rights to practice religion freely? Since when did an entire religion have to be punished for the acts of a few idiotic people?

On the hijab ban note, I honestly hope and pray taht it doesnt happen. Even though im on the other side of the world, it would just make the world suck more. and im sorry but its kind of hard to pass the point of absolute suckiness dont you think? I'm so glad that Canada hasnt even had talks of such absurdity yet. and Inshallah it wont ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the hijab ban note, I honestly hope and pray taht it doesnt happen. Even though im on the other side of the world, it would just make the world suck more. and im sorry but its kind of hard to pass the point of absolute suckiness dont you think? I'm so glad that Canada hasnt even had talks of such absurdity yet. and Inshallah it wont ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salam Sister,

I know that some of your comments are "tongue in cheek", the world (and Canada and U.S.) could indeed SUCK much more! We are fortunate (in Canada and U.S.) that we don't have any politicians currently discussing hijab bans (that I'm aware of), however, do you have any doubt that there are elements in the goverment (both liberal and conservative) that would LOVE to get away with a hijab ban if they could.

In a secular democracy, it is only the citizens of the country that determine the "zeitgeist", not any ideology, philosophy, etc. If we, as Muslims, do not make it clear that we will not accept this, then the storm will gather against us. We must communicate clearly and openly with our government and fellow citizens about these issues so that those who love their freedom to behave like dogs and pigs don't try to take away our freedom to live like human beings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sweeter than salsabeel

oh okay and I just thought I'd add this for those verses you posted. we KNOW that the QUran is decisive and people interpret it the wrong way. It frickin says so, did you know taht????

[3.7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

[11.1] Alif Lam Ra (This is) a Book, whose verses are made decisive, then are they made plain, from the Wise, All-aware:

[47.20] And those who believe say: Why has not a chapter been revealed? But when a decisive chapter is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein you see those in whose hearts is a disease look to you with the look of one fainting because of death. Woe to them then!

(and this ayah means fighting in the right way, not the way the idiots kill themselves these days.)

oh and Ali Zaki.. sorry... i guess i should have clarified I LOVE CANADA TO DEATH!! ( just chek out my sig ;) ) like Mashalah except the queer-ness I would never want to live anywhere else. The rest of the world besides CAnada couldnt suck more. and yes america UGHH, even though they might let us wear hijab... well we all know what they do.. and its probably worse than banning hijab. :P

Edited by sweeter_than_salsabeel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oh and Ali Zaki.. sorry... i guess i should have clarified I LOVE CANADA TO DEATH!! ( just chek out my sig ;) ) like Mashalah except the queer-ness I would never want to live anywhere else. The rest of the world besides CAnada couldnt suck more. and yes america UGHH, even though they might let us wear hijab... well we all know what they do.. and its probably worse than banning hijab. :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love Canda (in general) as well. I just went to Niagara Falls (the Canadian side) a few weeks ago and noticed how nice and clean your streets, homes, etc. are (I guess 45% taxes has it's benefits). I do, however, own a few Red Wings shirts, hats, etc...IS THERE A PROBLEM HERE!! :P

Seriously, I am not hear to defend the U.S. or Canada, however. My point is that do not take it for granted that just because you live in Canada you will never have to defend your right to wear hijab (if you wear hijab, I don't know). After all, France is also suppose to be known for it's tolerance, however, the hijab ban still happened and is in effect right now.

My point is, MAKE SOME NOISE MUSLIM WOMEN! Let your local politicans know how you feel about your freedom to practice you religion.

Salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
okay before anything... Ancient Briton which frickin century are you in??? :huh: and what in the name of socks are you going on about?? i was just in London BRITAIN for five frickin weeks, and IM MUSLIM. Everywhere you go, you know in SOCIETYYYYY , theres muslims EVERYWHERE. OH AND I SPOKE ENGLISH ALL THE TIME!!!!!!! AND EVERYONE I KNEW, KNEW ENGLISH TOOO !!! coming from canada it was nice to see so many hijabis and muslims. and no i wasnt in the secret little town villages where we do nothing but pray. cause you know what , there are NOT any. so quit the made up garbage and stick to the facts. built walls around themselves????? in what the mosques?? so what you want us to forget our religion completelty???? so what some might go to an islamic school, is that sucha big deal? School and MOsque don't completely isolate you from the society you know. How ignorant can you get.  In britain, muslims are A HUGE part of the society, dont go saying stupid things like they dont even have to learn english and dont integrate into society. seriously. i already thought the world was stupid. you make me think they're totally brainless, and the fact that your brian functions to type out and post things makes me absolutely speechless and stunned.

Veritas... the fact that you can even for a minute think that this is justified makes me wonder if you think what HItler did was justified. There is no justification. Last time I checked we (hijabis) werent harming anyone by wearing hijab. Oh, well on one thought... we might not be letting you oogle at us and look at how hot we are....... SORRY ABOUT THAT... like really im soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry that we dont give you something to look at!!!! like SOOOOOOOO SORRYYYY!!!! REALLY REALLY RAELLY SORRYY!!!! ( sorry i just felt like i needed to make sure you understood the sarcasm :) )

oh and really. i mean its totally our fault that some idiots are idiots. TOTALLY , like DUDE OMG WE SHOUDL BE PUNISHED AND MADE TO TAKE OFF OUR HIJABS BECAUSE SOME IDIOTS THAT THINK THEY SHARE THE SAME FRICKIN RELIGION AS US BUT DONT FOLLOW IT... LIKE TOTALLY WE SHOULD SUFFER AND BLAME THE RELIGION.

PLEASE. its sad how a religion can be blamed by a bunch of ignorant people just because of the people taht follow it. you dont see anybody blaming catholicism for molesting children, what with the huge amount of priests that were doing it?? how come when its muslims and Islam you can blame everyone but when its your own you dont? wheres the justice? do you NOT see?? does YOUR BRAIN FUNCTION???

you go on saying [Edited Out] that were LUCKY??? lucky for what??? to live in such a shallow world where you think taking off our hijabs is gonna solve TERRORIST problems???? Don't you think this just might anger the terorrists more???

you say how do you know theyre' not REAL muslims. youre on a frickin shia chat website. yet you still dont know anything about islam. SHOCKING isnt it?

since when did the practicers of religion follow thier own religions?? Lets take another religion for example....

Whens the last time you saw a jew stay away from pork and eat only koshered meat?

Now, i dont care what they do, they can do whatever they want. but im just proving that people HARDLY practice their religions the RIGHT way, or FOLLOW it. You'd be surprised at the small percentage of Muslim females wearing hijab in the western world (which by the way Ancient Briton, you wouldnt know cuz theyre so integrated into the society). Now you want the people that might actually be follwoing the religion the right way to take it off because some idiots didnt follow it the right way???

Wheres the justice?? What happend to living in a free world where we're being given our rights to practice religion freely? Since when did an entire religion have to be punished for the acts of a few idiotic people?

On the hijab ban note, I honestly hope and pray taht it doesnt happen. Even though im on the other side of the world, it would just make the world suck more. and im sorry but its kind of hard to pass the point of absolute suckiness dont you think? I'm so glad that Canada hasnt even had talks of such absurdity yet. and Inshallah it wont ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK as your from Canada you need all the help you can get, you know nothing about Britain and pleeeese don’t try to lecture me on what is happening in my own country. Just visiting does not make you an authority on Britain.

Next time try visiting, Birmingham, Burnley, Nelson, Keighley, and Luton etc etc.

The government has been making a drive over the last few months to make it mandatory for all immigrants to learn English and integrate, and the reason behind this is because of the closed Islamic communities that have spawned the terrorists that bomb London.

So less of the Frickin stupidity , and your assessment of nice to see hijab in London, yeh nice for you.

You can as all your type do, just spout your Islamic mantra like the morons below, or you can decide that living in the West with all the benefits you glum out of us may just be worth a little humility and a contrite attitude.

An Open Letter to the Muslims in Britain regarding the Dangerous Call of Integration

And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth while you know (the truth)” [TMQ Al-Baqarah: 42]

We write to you as part of this Noble Ummah of Muhammad (saw) who live in Britain. We write to you at a time of great sadness. We write to you with a warning above all warnings. We write to you to explain the truth, which most of you know but require reminding of. We write to you to appeal to your ‘Iman in Allah (swt) and the Last Day. We write to warn you of the concerted and relentless campaign being waged against Muslims in the West, in the name of integration, that has as its target the unique identity afforded to Muslims by Islam. We write to you to explain your duty before Allah (swt). For time is short, and it may come that this generation is remembered either for its bravery or for its capitulation.

Dear Brothers and Sisters, since the events of September 11th 2001, we have continuously warned that the Western governments have been conducting a ruthless campaign against Islam and Muslims under the disguise of a “war on terrorism”. We have witnessed with immense sadness the events that have taken place in the name of the “war on terror” such as the killing of the Muslims of Afghanistan, the boycott of the Muslims of Iraq and the butchering of the Muslims of Palestine. In addition we have all seen the execution of Muslims in China, the arrest and torture of Da’wa carriers in Uzbekistan aimed at shattering their resolve, and the onslaught against the Muslims of India at the hands of Hindu mobs. All of this was orchestrated and sanctioned by the head of Kufr, America, and supported slavishly by Britain and the Western governments.

This campaign of theirs aims to destroy Islam by making Muslims reject their ‘Aqeedah and embrace the ‘Aqeedah of secularism that calls for the separation of Deen from life, which means to keep Islam completely away from life. The Western governments work tirelessly day and night so that Muslims will not be able to unite under the leadership of one single Khilafah, so that they don’t return to their previous might and glory and so that they bow down at the altar of the Western way of life. Allah (swt) established that this is a rule for the Kuffar:

“The Jews and Christians will never be satisfied with you until you follow their way of life” [TMQ Al-Baqarah: 120]

http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2732

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the hell has happened here?

Let me preface this by reminding everyone that I live in the USA.

I have not heard even the most ignorant of citizens say that the Hijab should be banned. Self expression is a right.

This whole situation has been blown way out of proportion. For instance if we are talking about schools we have to consider that schools are for teaching students. If students begin wearing articles of clothing that disrupt the education process the administrators have to restore order so that they can get about the business of education. If a school system or local gov't banned muslim students from wearing hijab in would be unconstitutional. If all students were banned from wearing or displaying religious iitems it would be constitutional.

So what am I getting at here? Any law that respects or disrespects one particular religion is wrong.

When the rights of one person are diminished the rights of all are diminished.

Peace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sweeter than salsabeel
OK as your from Canada you need all the help you can get, you know nothing about Britain and pleeeese don’t try to lecture me on what is happening in my own country. Just visiting does not make you an authority on Britain.

Next time try visiting, Birmingham, Burnley, Nelson, Keighley, and Luton etc etc.

The government has been making a drive over the last few months to make it mandatory for all immigrants to learn English and integrate, and the reason behind this is because of the closed Islamic communities that have spawned the terrorists that bomb London.

So less of the Frickin stupidity , and your assessment of nice to see hijab in London, yeh nice for you.

You can as all your type do, just spout your Islamic mantra like the morons below, or you can decide that living in the West with all the benefits you glum out of us may just be worth a little humility and a contrite attitude.

my ASESSMENT of it being nice to see hijab in london, yeah it was nice. because did you know taht 1 in every 8 people is Muslim?? thats a rather LARGE part of society to be completely not integrated dont you think? wat do you even call integration??? im SURE a gazillion percent, that even the muslims that dont know english still integrate. where do they shop??? where do they work???? im sorry do they have thier own little communites like the amish?? NO THEY DONT!!!! they HAVE to integrate somewhat. the percentage that dont know english are probably VERYY SMALL. and they dont have thier own little communiteis with their own little shops and everybody works in muslim places PLEEEEEEEEASE, get a GRIP and read what youre saying!!! if by integration you mean watchin porn and what not and wearing clothes that dont really cover much, then what exactly do you want muslims to do? give up their religion? give it all uppppppp?? those terrorists youre talkin about.. PLEASE. they were ALL IN BRITAIN for a veryyyy long time, some even from birth, and they were INTEGRATED into the society AND they knew ENGLISH, so dont go blaming the immigrants. tahts soo STUPid!!!

do you want to give some reference for this integration thing??? cuz seriously i dont buy it. and i didnt know you owned the country either, cuz it sure seems like you act like it. "all the benefits you glum out of us" oh PLEEEEEEEASE, as if youre doing such a big deal... actually youre DOING NOTHING!!! because YOU dont own the country! and youre not doing anybody favours by giving them human rights. unless oh maybe youre an alien and you own the world.. so by giving human's right's you ARE doing us a favour? is that right? oh dear me , forgive me! i didnt know you were some kind of God that we should THANK for giving us HUMAN RIGHTS!!!! ohhh did i say RIGHTS?? excuse me according to YOU, theyre priviledges YOU give us arent they?? ohhhh a little humilty and contrite attitude is what you want then eh??? OH PLEASE! the benefits are NOT yours to GIVE!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i certainly hope this doesn't go through.

This would NEVER happen in American ironically, as we don't mind public displays of faith.

I find it ironic Muslim in America have more religious freedom than they do in European countries.

There is no tie between the hijab and terrorists just like there is no tie between me and the IRA just because I wear a Celtic Cross.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

people are nervous about terrorism. their piece of mind is more important than someones hijab. plus, it's their country. If I were a muslim woman I woud gladly remove it till terrorism is over. The US rounded up japanese and put them in camps in ww2. Hitler put million of jews to their death. Not wearing a hijab for a while is getting off easy

Lester please explain to me how removing hijab will stop terrorism?

I dont know perhaps I missed it when they explained how a scarf on some ones head causes people to be blown up...

The US rounded up japanese and put them in camps in ww2.

The U.S is already doing that in a far far far greater scale than they did in WW2 and in a much more brutal and inhumane way here perhaps you should read this...

That remindes me ..since we are on the topic of prisons why dont you check out this article on what kind of prisons the U.S are running world wide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004May10.html

(I would put the whole article in here, but its over 4 pages long so ill just send the link).

Here is one of the most shocking/informative articles ive come across to what the U.S is doing to prisoners world wide.....

'One huge US jail'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,...rticle_continue

The Guardian

Saturday March 19, 2005

Afghanistan is the hub of a global network of detention centres, the frontline in America's 'war on terror', where arrest can be random and allegations of torture commonplace. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark investigate on the ground and talk to former prisoners

Kabul was a grim, monastic place in the days of the Taliban; today it's a chaotic gathering point for every kind of prospector and carpetbagger. Foreign bidders vying for billions of dollars of telecoms, irrigation and construction contracts have sparked a property boom that has forced up rental prices in the Afghan capital to match those in London, Tokyo and Manhattan. Four years ago, the Ministry of Vice and Virtue in Kabul was a tool of the Taliban inquisition, a drab office building where heretics were locked up for such crimes as humming a popular love song. Now it's owned by an American entrepreneur who hopes its bitter associations won't scare away his new friends.

Article continues

Outside Kabul, Afghanistan is bleaker, its provinces more inaccessible and lawless, than it was under the Taliban. If anyone leaves town, they do so in convoys. Afghanistan is a place where it is easy for people to disappear and perilous for anyone to investigate their fate. Even a seasoned aid agency such as Médécins Sans Frontières was forced to quit after five staff members were murdered last June. Only the 17,000-strong US forces, with their all-terrain Humvees and Apache attack helicopters, have the run of the land, and they have used the haze of fear and uncertainty that has engulfed the country to advance a draconian phase in the war against terror. Afghanistan has become the new Guantánamo Bay.

Washington likes to hold up Afghanistan as an exemplar of how a rogue regime can be replaced by democracy. Meanwhile, human-rights activists and Afghan politicians have accused the US military of placing Afghanistan at the hub of a global system of detention centres where prisoners are held incommunicado and allegedly subjected to torture. The secrecy surrounding them prevents any real independent investigation of the allegations. "The detention system in Afghanistan exists entirely outside international norms, but it is only part of a far larger and more sinister jail network that we are only now beginning to understand," Michael Posner, director of the US legal watchdog Human Rights First, told us.

When we landed in Kabul, Afghanistan was blue with a bruising cold. We were heading for the former al-Qaida strongholds in the south-east that were rumoured to be the focus of the new US network. How should we prepare, we asked local UN staff. "Don't go," they said. None the less, we were able to find a driver, a Pashtun translator and a boxful of clementines, and set off on a five-and-a-half-hour trip south through the snow to Gardez, a market town dominated by two rapidly expanding US military bases.

There we met Dr Rafiullah Bidar, regional director of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, established in 2003 with funding from the US Congress to investigate abuses committed by local warlords and to ensure that women's and children's rights were protected. He was delighted to see foreigners in town. At his office in central Gardez, Bidar showed us a wall of files. "All I do nowadays is chart complaints against the US military," he said. "Many thousands of people have been rounded up and detained by them. Those who have been freed say that they were held alongside foreign detainees who've been brought to this country to be processed. No one is charged. No one is identified. No international monitors are allowed into the US jails." He pulled out a handful of files: "People who have been arrested say they've been brutalised - the tactics used are beyond belief." The jails are closed to outside observers, making it impossible to test the truth of the claims.

Last November, a man from Gardez died of hypothermia in a US military jail. When his family were called to collect the body, they were given a $100 note for the taxi ride and no explanation. In scores more cases, people have simply disappeared.

Prisoner transports crisscross the country between a proliferating network of detention facilities. In addition to the camps in Gardez, there are thought to be US holding facilities in the cities of Khost, Asadabad and Jalalabad, as well as an official US detention centre in Kandahar, where the tough regime has been nicknamed "Camp Slappy" by former prisoners. There are 20 more facilities in outlying US compounds and fire bases that complement a major "collection centre" at Bagram air force base. The CIA has one facility at Bagram and another, known as the "Salt Pit", in an abandoned brick factory north of Kabul. More than 1,500 prisoners from Afghanistan and many other countries are thought to be held in such jails, although no one knows for sure because the US military declines to comment.

Anyone who has got in the way of the prison transports has been met with brutal force. Bidar directed us to a small Shia neighbourhood on the edge of town where a multiple killing was still under investigation. Inside a frozen courtyard, a former policeman, Said Sardar, 25, was sat beside his crutches. On May 1 2004, he was manning a checkpoint when a car careened through. "Inside were men dressed like Arabs, but they were western men," he said. "They had prisoners in the car." Sardar fired a warning shot for the car to stop. "The western men returned fire and within minutes two US attack helicopters hovered above us. They fired three rockets at the police station. One screamed past me. I saw its fiery tail and blacked out."

He was taken to Bagram, where US military doctors had to amputate his leg. Afterwards, he said, "an American woman appeared. She said the US was sorry. It was a mistake. The men in the car were Special Forces or CIA on a mission. She gave me $500." Sardar showed us into another room in his compound where a circle of children stared glumly at us; their fathers, all policemen, were killed in the same incident. "Five dead. Four in hospital. To protect covert US prisoner transports," he says. Later, US helicopters were deployed in two similar incidents that left nine dead.

In his builders' merchant's shop, Mohammed Timouri describes how he lost his son. "Ismail was a part-time taxi driver, waiting to go to college," he says, handing us a photograph of a beardless, short-haired 19-year-old held aloft in a coffin at his funeral last March. "A convoy delivering prisoners from a facility in Jalalabad to one in Kabul became snarled up in traffic. A US soldier jumped down and lifted a woman out of the way. She screamed. Ismail stepped forward to explain she was a conservative person, wearing a burka. The soldier dropped the woman and shot Ismail in front of a crowd of 20 people."

Mohammed received a letter from the Afghan police: "We apologise to you," the police chief wrote. "An innocent was killed by Americans." The US army declined to comment on Ismail's death or on a second fatal shooting by another prison transport at the same crossroads later that month. It also refused to comment on an incident outside Kabul when a prison patrol reportedly cleared a crowd of children by throwing a grenade into their midst. However, we have since heard that the CIA's inspector general is investigating at least eight serious incidents, including two deaths in custody, following complaints by agents about the activities of their military colleagues.

There are insurgents active in the Gardez area, as there are throughout the south of Afghanistan, remnants of the old order and the newly disaffected. Every morning it takes Afghan police several hours to pick along the highway unearthing explosives concealed overnight. And so it was mid-morning before we were able to leave town, crawling over the Gardez-Khost pass, some 10,000ft high. No one saw us slipping on to the fertile Khost plain, where Osama bin Laden once had his training camps - the camps were destroyed by US cruise missiles in August 1998. Today a shrine to Taliban loyalists still greets travellers to the city, although no one here would say they preferred the old life.

US Camp Salerno, the largest base outside Kabul, dominates the area around Khost. Inside the city, Kamal Sadat, a local stringer for BBC World Service, told how he was detained last September and found himself locked up in a prison filled with suspects from many countries. "Even though I showed my press accreditation, I was hooded, driven to Salerno and then flown to another US base. I had no idea where I was or why I had been detained." He was held in a small wooden cell, and soldiers combed through his notebooks, copying down names and phone numbers. "Every time I was moved within the base, I was hooded again. Every prisoner has to maintain absolute silence. I could hear helicopters whirring above me. Prisoners were arriving and leaving all the time. There were also cells beneath me, under the ground." After three days, Sadat was flown back to Khost and freed without explanation. "It was only later I learned that I had been held in Bagram. If the BBC had not intervened, I fear I would not have got out." After his release, the US military said it had all been a misunderstanding, and apologised.

Camp Salerno, which houses the 1,200 troops of US Combined Taskforce Thunder, was being expanded when we arrived. Army tents were being replaced with concrete dormitories. The detention facility, concealed behind a perimeter of opaque green webbing, was being modernised and enlarged. Ensconced in a Soviet-era staff building was the camp's commanding officer, Colonel Gary Cheeks. He listened calmly as we asked about the allegations of torture, deaths and disappearances at US detention facilities including Salerno. We read to him from a complaint made by a UN official in Kabul that accused the US military of using "cowboy-like excessive force". He eased forward in his chair: "There have been some tragic accidents for which we have apologised. Some people have been paid compensation."

We put to him the specific case of Mohammed Khan, from a village near the Pakistan border, who died in custody at Camp Salerno: his relatives say his body showed signs of torture. "You could go on for ages with a 'he said, she said'. You have to take my word for it," said Cheeks. He remembered Khan's death: "He was bitten by a snake and died in his cell." He added, "We are building new holding cells here to make life better for detainees. We are systematising our prison programme across the country."

For what reason? "So all guards and interrogators behave by the same code of behaviour," the colonel said. Is it not the case that an ever-increasing number of prisoners have vanished, while others are being shuttled between jails to keep their families in the dark? Cheeks moved towards his office door: "There are many things that are distorted. No one has vanished here ... Look, the war against the Taliban is one small part. I want the Afghan people with us. They are the key to ending conflict. If they fear us or we do wrong by them, then we have lost."

However, many Afghans who celebrated the fall of the Taliban have long lost faith in the US military. In Kabul, Nader Nadery, of the Human Rights Commission, told us, "Afghanistan is being transformed into an enormous US jail. What we have here is a military strategy that has spawned serious human rights abuses, a system of which Afghanistan is but one part." In the past 18 months, the commission has logged more than 800 allegations of human rights abuses committed by US troops.

The Afghan government privately shares Nadery's fears. One minister, who asked not to be named, said, "Washington holds Afghanistan up to the world as a nascent democracy and yet the US military has deliberately kept us down, using our country to host a prison system that seems to be administered arbitrarily, indiscriminately and without accountability."

What has been glimpsed in Afghanistan is a radical plan to replace Guantánamo Bay. When that detention centre was set up in January 2002, it was essentially an offshore gulag - beyond the reach of the US constitution and even the Geneva conventions. That all changed in July 2004. The US supreme court ruled that the federal court in Washington had jurisdiction to hear a case that would decide if the Cuban detentions were in violation of the US constitution, its laws or treaties. The military commissions, which had been intended to dispense justice to the prisoners, were in disarray, too. No prosecution cases had been prepared and no defence cases would be readily offered as the US National Association of Criminal Defence Lawyers had described the commissions as unethical, a decision backed by a federal judge who ruled in January that they were "illegal". Guantánamo was suddenly bogged down in domestic lawsuits. It had lost its practicality. So a global prison network built up over the previous three years, beyond the reach of American and European judicial process, immediately began to pick up the slack. The process became explicit last week when the Pentagon announced that half of the 540 or so inmates at Guantánamo are to be transferred to prisons in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.

Since September 11 2001, one of the US's chief strategies in its "war on terror" has been to imprison anyone considered a suspect on whatever grounds. To that end it commandeered foreign jails, built cellblocks at US military bases and established covert CIA facilities that can be located almost anywhere, from an apartment block to a shipping container. The network has no visible infrastructure - no prison rolls, visitor rosters, staff lists or complaints procedures. Terror suspects are being processed in Afghanistan and in dozens of facilities in Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Jordan, Egypt, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and the British island of Diego Garcia in the southern Indian Ocean. Those detained are held incommunicado, without charge or trial, and frequently shuttled between jails in covert air transports, giving rise to the recently coined US military _expression "ghost detainees".

Most of the countries hosting these invisible prisons are already partners in the US coalition. Others, notably Syria, are pragmatic associates, which work privately alongside the CIA and US Special Forces, despite bellicose public statements from President Bush (he has condemned Syria for harbouring terrorism, for aiding the remnants of the Saddam Hussein regime, and most recently has demanded that Syrian troops quit Lebanon).

All the host countries are renowned for their poor human rights records, enabling interrogators (US soldiers, contractors and their local partners) to operate. We have obtained prisoner letters, declassified FBI files, legal depositions, witness statements and testimony from US and UK officials, which document the alleged methods deployed in Afghanistan - shackles, hoods, electrocution, whips, mock executions, sexual humiliation and starvation - and suggest they are practised across the network. Sir Nigel Rodley, a former UN special rapporteur on torture, said, "The more hidden detention practices there are, the more likely that all legal and moral constraints on official behaviour will be removed."

The only "ghost detainees" to have been identified by Washington are a handful of high-profile al-Qaida operatives such as Abu Zubayda, Bin Laden's lieutenant, who vanished after being picked up by Pakistani authorities in Faisalabad in March 2002. In June of that year, US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Zubayda was "under US control". He did not say where, although sources in the Pakistani government said Zubayda was being held at a CIA facility in their country.

In May 2003, Bush clarified the fate of Waleed Muhammad bin Attash, an alleged conspirator in the USS Cole bombing, who disappeared after being arrested by police in Pakistan in April 2003. Bush described Attash as "a killer ... one less person that people who love freedom have to worry about"; he is also one more person who has never appeared on a US prison roll.

In June 2004, a senior counterterrorism official in Britain confirmed that Hambali (a nom de guerre) - accused of organising the October 2002 Bali bombings and unseen since Thai police seized him in August 2003 - was "singing like a bird", apparently at the US base on Diego Garcia.

Evidence we have collected, however, shows that many more of those swept up in the network have few provable connections to any outlawed organisation; experts in the field describe their value in the war against terror as "negligible". Former prisoners claim they were released only after naming names, coerced into making false confessions that led to the arrests of more people unconnected to terrorism, in a system of justice that owes more to Stanley Milgram's Six Degrees Of Separation - where anyone can be linked to everyone else in the world in as many stages - than to analytical jurisprudence.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=62692&st=0

Edited by khorasani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my ASESSMENT of it being nice to see hijab in london, yeah it was nice. because did you know taht 1 in every 8 people is Muslim?? thats a rather LARGE part of society to be completely not integrated dont you think? wat do you even call integration??? im SURE a gazillion percent, that even the muslims that dont know english still integrate. where do they shop??? where do they work???? im sorry do they have thier own little communites like the amish?? NO THEY DONT!!!! they HAVE to integrate somewhat. the percentage that dont know english are probably VERYY SMALL. and they dont have thier own little communiteis with their own little shops and everybody works in muslim places PLEEEEEEEEASE, get a GRIP and read what youre saying!!! if by integration you mean watchin porn and what not and wearing clothes that dont really cover much, then what exactly do you want muslims to do? give up their religion? give it all uppppppp?? those terrorists youre talkin about.. PLEASE. they were ALL IN BRITAIN for a veryyyy long time, some even from birth, and they were INTEGRATED into the society AND they knew ENGLISH, so dont go blaming the immigrants. tahts soo STUPid!!!

do you want to give some reference for this integration thing??? cuz seriously i dont buy it. and i didnt know you owned the country either, cuz it sure seems like you act like it. "all the benefits you glum out of us" oh PLEEEEEEEASE, as if youre doing such a big deal... actually youre DOING NOTHING!!! because YOU dont own the country! and youre not doing anybody favours by giving them human rights. unless oh maybe youre an alien and you own the world.. so by giving human's right's you ARE doing us a favour? is that right? oh dear me , forgive me! i didnt know you were some kind of God that we should THANK for giving us HUMAN RIGHTS!!!! ohhh did i say RIGHTS?? excuse me according to YOU, theyre priviledges YOU give us arent they?? ohhhh a little humilty and contrite attitude is what you want then eh??? OH PLEASE! the benefits are NOT yours to GIVE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your posts are full of superstition and assumption with little to no knowledge of the demography of Britain and current events. You speak of London as if you have some understanding of our capital.

You have absolutely zero knowledge and in true Islamic rhetoric start banging on about your rights.

Sorry to burst your bubble sunshine but yes the country belongs to us the indigenous population. Immigrants to any country are there because of the good will of that indigenous population.

I suggest next time you visit London you go to Whitechapel or Londinistan.

Why Muslims in Britain Are Failing To Integrate

The following letter, from Janet Reed of Mirfield, West Yorkshire, was published in the Daily Telegraph on Monday (1 August), and goes some way to identifying the causes of the difficulty in integrating many Pakistani Muslims into British society:

“Sir– I have worked professionally for many years with children and young families in West Yorkshire. In the majority of the many Pakistani families I have known, one parent had a Yorkshire accent, while the other would have virtually no English at all. Lord Ousley’s report on the disturbances in Bradford noted that 60 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi marriages in Bradford were with a spouse from the country of origin. This is similar to my experiences and, I feel, is a huge stumbling block to any proper integration with British life, since it ensures that each young family is put right back into the culture from which the immigrant group first came.

“This practice also proves very difficult for girls who do well at school, who are then contracted in marriage to young men with very little or no English who come from a cultural background very unlike our own. These men often have a very clear and different view of the role of women in the family. A young woman I knew with good A-levels who wanted to read English at university was contracted in marriage to a relative, a village farmer who had no understanding of English.

“The birth rate among Pakistani families is high, which helps to ensure that there is a constant flow of spouses and an unending cycle of communities with minimal integration or British identity.”

http://www.secularism.org.uk/newsline5thau....html#integrate

'UK's failure to integrate Muslims is to blame for bombings'

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN

A SENIOR Pakistani diplomat yesterday warned Britain not to blame his country for the London bomb attacks, but instead to look more closely at the UK's own problems with its Muslim community.

Munir Akram, ambassador to the UN, said Britain's failure to integrate Muslims into society was to blame for the London bombings.

Three of the suicide bombers were of Pakistani origin and intelligence officers believe they may have been recruited for their mission during visits to the country. Shazhad Tanweer, the Aldgate bomber, is known to have visited an Islamic school in Lahore linked to al-Qaeda and such schools are now facing a crackdown by the Pakistani authorities after Foreign Secretary Jack Straw expressed "concern" over some of their activities last week.

But Mr Akram said that there were extremists preachers "spouting hatred for everyone" in Britain as well as Pakistan

"I accept that Pakistan has to do a lot and we are doing it," he said. "You have to acknowledge what we are doing. It is not sufficient for you to just point out that so and so is a radical in Pakistan. You have them too and we have to address the problems, the underlying causes."

And he said people should look instead at policies in the Middle East and the Islamic world. "That is the problem with your society and the inability to integrate the Muslim community into your society," he said.

Two of Pakistan's leading religious scholars yesterday voiced fears that thousands of religious seminaries in the country could face a backlash in the aftermath of the London bombs. Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi and Maulana Abdul Rehman Ashrafi, regarded as relatively moderate clerics, said seminaries like theirs would face tighter controls because a dangerous few misuse the term jihad to propagate violence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest sweeter than salsabeel

look, yeah theres a FEW people taht don't know english. but not very many. those terorrists went to university in britain, they KNEW english and lived in britain for a long time.

if the terrorists knew english and were a part of the society, (as again, theyre not locked up in some little village where only muslims are allowed) then i dont see where this whole integration [Edited Out] is coming from.

is there something wrong if Pakistani's (NOT ALL MUSLIMS) want to marry into their own culture? why do they NEED to integrate and forget their old customs and traditions??? again... WHAT do you want them to integrate to??? not being muslim ? :huh:

dont confuse the pakistani culture with ISLAM. theyre two different things.

do you want us to forget our values?? flush the religion down the drain?? you dont make any sense whatsoever.

YOU don't own anything, and neither does anyone else. sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but you didn't make the earth did you? God owns it, and everybody has the right to live whereever they want. you cant GIVE rights taht already belong to every human.

besides that, this is going WAY OFF TOPIC. we're talkin about hijab here. and if by integrating you mean removing the hijab then YOU are the one with the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

byaccident- you wonder why muslim women in your country don't waer hijab and why no one answered your post? Because the muslims here are on a political mission that has much more to do with theocracy and communist "revolution" (actually the opposite) than it does with islam. Some guy invented the modern hijab like 25 years ago.

Terrorism is a much larger issue, and laying the burden on hijab really makes no sense. To say, "Oh, muslims got it easy, it's only hijab, Japanese had it much worse..." ... does that REALLY justify forcing women to remove hijab? Honestly, you can't compare the two... "You should feel lucky since they're not killing you." Taking away civil liberties is still a major violation of rights in my opinion.

And I think you also have to understand something - removing hijab for some Muslim women is worse than anything else in the world.

well that's pretty unfortunate because the rest of the world doesn't see it that way. sorry. If yu want to practice your faith in a way our society sees as extreme go do it in a muslim country. we see your hijab as a middle finger from a people who we are at war with, and a condemnation of womens rights. I'm german-american. I woulnd't have raised a german flag during world war two. It's just common sense. and it would lead to less discrimation against muslim women. wouldn't it be niced to not be asked to condemn terrorism all the time?

Edited by Lester

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
byaccident-  you wonder why muslim women in your country don't waer hijab and why no one answered your post?  Because the muslims here are on a political mission that has much more to do with theocracy and communist "revolution" (actually the opposite) than it does with islam.  Some guy invented the modern hijab like 25 years ago.

well that's pretty unfortunate because the rest of the world doesn't see it that way.  sorry.   If yu want to practice your faith in a way our society sees as extreme go do it in a muslim country.  we see your hijab as a middle finger from a people who we are at war with, and a condemnation of womens rights.  I'm german-american.  I woulnd't have raised a german flag during world war two. It's just common sense.  and it would lead to less discrimation against muslim women.  wouldn't it be niced to not be asked to condemn terrorism all the time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Curios Infidel gets it. I get it. Is it really that hard to understand?

Hijab has NOTHING to do with terrorism! Raising a german flag during world war two is FAR different than me, wearing a hijab as I do my daily activities with NON-MUSLIMS who seem to REALLY not care what the heck I wear. People blow this issue of hijab WAY out of proportion, when, in reality, the people I work and interact with, have never seen it as an issue. Raising a german flag is an issue of pride for a country, but wearing a hijab is done out of FAITH. How can you compare the two? Doing something for God is far different than just being a jerk.

You see the hijab as a middle finger from a people who you are at war with? I am seriously so sorry if you feel that way. Do you feel the same way about nuns? Or orthodox jews?

Wasalaam

Edited by Path2Felicity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And by the way... I don't mind people asking me to condem terrorism all the time. If people see one hijabi in their lifetime, and it's ME, and I'm condeming terrorism, what image do you think that gives in their minds?

I had a friend of mine straight up tell me that before she met me, she had a really bad image of muslims, but being friends with me changed her mentality. Isn't this much better than disregarding my faith?

Wasalaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
people are nervous about terrorism.  their piece of mind is more important than someones hijab.  plus, it's their country.  If I were a muslim woman I woud gladly remove it till terrorism is over.  The US rounded up japanese and put them in camps in ww2.  Hitler put million of jews to their death.  Not wearing a hijab for a while is getting off easy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lester I have seen many Muslim girls have answered you and I especially don't approve of calling you a coward or whatnot, because what I hope is the case that you just don't understand.

For a Muslim girl or woman who chooses to wear hijab, it is to her an obligation that stands before all others, in keeping the Islamic faith. It is equivalent to insisting that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammed is his messenger when faced with death and all other dangers. Who does not recall Bilal the slave?

You must understand that when Allah tells us that we must wear this hijab, there is no going back. Nothing on the planet, no persons or laws or claims of terrorism will induce a Muslim women to take her hijab off.

Not wearing a hijab for a while is NOT getting off easy. It is deliberately disobeying Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. I would rather die right this moment than do that. I have been wearing the hijab since nine years of age. It is not a symbol of aggression! It is not a flaunt! It is simply covering the head out of modesty and chastisity because God wills his creations to be such- chaste.

Did you know that in Judaism a women is required to cover her head as well? They wear wigs. I don't see the point in that, but it is none of my business. The Virgin Mary, and in fact all the Jewish women of that time covered themselves from head to toe. Why should this be offensive now? Why should we not be free to do what Allah bids is in peace?

The US put Japanese in camps. Hitler put millions of Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, gypsies, Semitics, and disabled people in camps.

Do you not think that we Muslim women would not GLADLY go through all of this just to maintain our hijab?

Nothing is more important to a Muslim woman than her Islam. Hijab is a part of that Islam.

And as for peace of mind, I see only Muslims and Arabs being killed. A few blasts in London and one in America, well those deaths, take them and multiply them by a hundred thousand. Then you will get the real terrorism of the world- it happens right here in the middle east.

May Allah reward she who maintains her hijab in the face of struggle. Anyone who would disobey the slightest whim of Allah does not know Him.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you not think that we Muslim women would not GLADLY go through all of this just to maintain our hijab?

Nothing is more important to a Muslim woman than her Islam. Hijab is a part of that Islam.

And as for peace of mind, I see only Muslims and Arabs being killed. A few blasts in London and one in America, well those deaths, take them and multiply them by a hundred thousand. Then you will get the real terrorism of the world- it happens right here in the middle east.

Spot on.

The problem is extremism, not Islam, as the misguided bigots like ancient briton like to believe.

If banning hijab is their solution to eliminate terrorism, they're outrageously stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...