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What cause Nasbies came in to being

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if the main belief of the nasibis is following

to hate hazrat ali (ra) , then they have no contact with the sunni fiqhs. in no camps you will find such teachings among sunnis. wheither they be wahabis , sufis or salafis

although the earliest sect the khwarijites had a similiar teaching. they first loved hazrat uthman (ra) and hazrat ali (ra), but later they turned against them. they are reason for the martyrdom of hazrat ali (ra)

the ummayad caliphs / kings used in early stages during the friday khutba to let the imams of the jamaah masjids to curse hazrat ali (ra), nauzobillah. this practise were removed by hazrat umar ibn abdul aziz (ra). becouse this practise did not respond to the general sunnis teachings.

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the ummayad caliphs / kings used in early stages during the friday khutba to let the imams of the jamaah masjids to curse hazrat ali (ra), nauzobillah. this practise were removed by hazrat umar ibn abdul aziz (ra). becouse this practise did not respond to the general sunnis teachings.

1) when one is silent on it that if somebody curse Ali (AS) and other Ahlebait(AS), in other words he is agreed on it.

2) When one is not saying that it was done bad by the ummayad caliphs / kings during Friday khutba to let the imams of the jamaah masjids to curse Hazrat Ali(AS)

3) When one is not considering it wrong, and favoring the person in his other deeds and trying to protect/save him from objections, it means he is with him.

The problem with Sunnies is that they are hanging in between. They was to keep early ummayad caliphs / kings as well as Ali(AS).

In other words; they are taking right as right and also wrong as right too, which is illogical.

If somebody says that Sunnies dont do that. but the problem is that Sunnies allow such kind of people to be in them and Sunnies regard them.

If somebody says that its not big matter. It means that Ali(AS) and other Ahlebait(AS) are not very important for him. He is putting Ali(AS) and other Ahlebait(AS) in the same category as ummayad caliphs / kings.

Morg! it is good that you agreed that ummayad caliphs / kings did this at some point but there are some people who completely deny this fact and they try to hide it under the cover/label of Sahabi.

Morg! as you agreed, i want to ask a thing, is it possible these kinds of acts were done by a Sahabi. I think you should modify the Defination of a Sahabi. "that he can never do any wrong"

Nasbies are those people who try to hide the fact; that some people cursed Ali(AS) under the label of Sahabi. Sunnies do have one face towards Nasbies as good. Because they don’t hate those people who hated Ali(AS)

Curse of Allah on those people who cursed Ali(AS)

Curse of Allah on those people who agreed with them in anyway, who cursed Ali(AS)

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^^ sorry brother if you think that i go against the sahabi of Allah swt. for me hazrat ali (ra) is a high level sahabi, he is one of the ashura mubashireen. pluss he is of the household.

but i wont slander a person whom with hazrat ali (ra) and his son made peace agreements with.

as brother here said. if sunnis were more like umar ibn abdul aziz (ra), i say ameen to that. every sunni try to follow the sunnah of rasool Allah saww. but that is the hard part. shaitan hits us all. even me and even you.

as for the rest of the ummayad caliphs. i only accept the legal caliphate of umar ibn abdul aziz (ra) and muawiya ibn yazid (ra)

for sunnis the leadership in form of calipha dunasties havent been so important. as some of the many caliphs opressed even sunnu ullamas and imams. it was not later that sunnis got the power with the caliphs. but that was with the kingship and the claiphate went into heredical sucession.

another thing.

sunnis prevent cursing of hazrat ali (ra)

i am sunni, i know better. infact we let all the cursing be decided by Allah swt. becouse every human beeing have a account to deliver to him. we are more conserned by our deeds. on our amaals.

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there are extremists and moderates in EVERY group. shias and nasibis are not at opposite ends of the spectrum because all, or even most, shias are NOT extremists.

(salam)

good point sister........nasibis instigate against the ahlul bayt (as).....so a person that is very aggressive towards ahlul bayt (as) will never show his enmity through his tongue, but he will display it in his heart, so a nasibi can be a woman with hijab on at home who washes dishes, and apparently seems to be a good woman, but Indeed Allah the wise and the all knowing whats in her heart and every other nasibi.........to label all sunnis nasibis is maybe slightly unfair, since the word sunni encompases nearly 2 billion people in the world, and there are people that may not know.......however nasibis are the believers in the imams of injustice that grabbed the right of fatima(As), and our twelve imams (as), as well as the holy prophet (saw) who was poisoned by hafsa refer to hayat al qulub volume 1 page 890.........

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^^ sorry brother if you think that i go against the sahabi of Allah swt. for me hazrat ali (ra) is a high level sahabi, he is one of the ashura mubashireen. pluss he is of the household.

but i wont slander a person whom with hazrat ali (ra) and his son made peace agreements with.

as brother here said. if sunnis were more like umar ibn abdul aziz (ra), i say ameen to that. every sunni try to follow the sunnah of rasool Allah saww. but that is the hard part. shaitan hits us all. even me and even you.

as for the rest of the ummayad caliphs. i only accept the legal caliphate of umar ibn abdul aziz (ra) and muawiya ibn yazid (ra)

for sunnis the leadership in form of calipha dunasties havent been so important. as some of the many caliphs opressed even sunnu ullamas and imams. it was not later that sunnis got the power with the caliphs. but that was with the kingship and the claiphate went into heredical sucession.

another thing.

If there is a person who is a Sahabi, That can not be “of Allah”, in think. That can be of a person. Like Sahabi -of- Prophet. I am sorry brother, you are so towards Sahabi that you are putting him one level up. Correct me if am wrong.

However I don’t agree with the concept of “ashura mubashireen”. Why don’t I? you can check another thread I have create in which I asked about the total number of ashura mubashireen. But Ali (AS) have lots of other “Fazail”. For you only two are the most important for him(AS) one is that he is from ashura mubashireen and the other that he is from Ahle bait(AS). Was not they anything else?

What is the legality of Khalafat of Umar ibn Abdul Aziz and Muawiya ibn Yazid. What makes them different from other? If you think that this is not related question. I can open a new thread for it.

If you say Calipha Dynasties are not important for Sunnies and many of the kings oppressed Sunies Ullemas but the question is that who was the founder of all these things.

You said that you will not slander a person with whom Ali(AS) and Hassan(AS) made a peace agreement. It means that there was a problem created by somebody. That is why a “peace agreement” was required otherwise it would have been worst situations.

And I think you also do know that what was written in that peace agreement, and was the peace agreement fulfilled (kept) or not. And who broke it.

And if somebody breaks a peace agreement then who is objectionable?

I would not ask you such a hard question that what do you think that if somebody brings the situations at such a stage that it makes so hard for a person who is one of the ashura mubashireen and Ahlebait(as) were have to do a peace agreement with him.

Was that not the same kind of situation in which Prophet (PBUH) made a peace agreement with Jews of Madina and then once he made a peace agreement with Quraish of Makkah. They were still Jews and Quraish were still Quraish. They did not join the Prophet(PBUH) as a whole. They were good only in the prospect of that peace agreement but as a whole? Not and think about it that if once they broke the agreement, what happened next.?

If they broke the peace agreement don’t you think that you should not slander/disagree/(at least Oppose) a person from them. I apologize for these questions.

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^ I think you are right if sunnis can be like umar ibn abdul aziz(ra) then there is no shia sunni conflict.

I've read the 12rs tafseer talking about regarding the cursed tree. The 12rs include and curse Umar II (ra) becaue he didn't hand power over to Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (as).

Now the questions are, from where they came?

Who was their founder?

how they entered into Ahle Sunnah as their part?

why a number of Sunnies are unable to distinguish them?

Why Ahle Sunnah allow them to living in between them?

Why don’t they set them apart?

This online lecture talks about the Nisabis and their existence. Shaykh Al Ninowy also tells us about the modern Nisaabis.

Sirah of Amir'Mu'minin Ali 1

Sirah Of Amir'Mu'minin Ali 2

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The direct answer is Sunnis no matter how hard they try to shrug it off. The Saudi funded Salaf and Wahabbis used the crutch of "They abused Sahaba(RA) and Umm al Momaneen Ayesha (ra) " To completely hijack Islam. These minions of Satans went to all small town/villages and have now successfully converted hundreds of thousands of Sunni folks right under their mufti noses and everyone kept quiet to get a lil piece of either power or money.

Amazing thing is Qadianis commit open blasphemy yet they are more safer then any average Shia...Why? Cause they dont oppose their main pillar, The Sahabas and Umm-ul-Momineen.

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we sunnis think that only Allah swt is to be praised. and he is of the highest rank. next comes the prophet mohammad saww. and after him comes the other ambiyas , nabis and then the sahabas.

for us sahabas have a high status. and our hadiths do not contradict ourselves. we have believe in them. as for example orthodox christian sources are different from catholic christian sources. they cannot cooperate or come with a discuttion which is based on the documents.

as for the qadiani case. the ahmadiyya faith is banned in pakistan, saudi arabia (most of the gulf i think), in south africa it is also looked on as a different religion and not a sect of islam... as for shia they make a good minority in pakistan. and they dont have as much probglems in pakistan as they have for example in saudia

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we sunnis think that only Allah swt is to be praised. and he is of the highest rank. next comes the prophet mohammad saww. and after him comes the other ambiyas , nabis and then the sahabas.

So in sunni thoughts Ahle Bait(AS) don’t come in any ranking.

As per Sunni(Morg) the following is the ranking.

a. Allah

b. Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)

c. Nabis

d. Sahaba

e. ----

Is this not Nasbiyat?

for us sahabas have a high status. and our hadiths do not contradict ourselves. we have believe in them. as for example orthodox christian sources are different from catholic christian sources. they cannot cooperate or come with a discuttion which is based on the documents.

If you yourself or somebody else don’t agree with your given thoughts; it will give you a proof of contradiction.

However there are many examples, which can be given as proof.

as for the qadiani case. the ahmadiyya faith is banned in pakistan, saudi arabia (most of the gulf i think), in south africa it is also looked on as a different religion and not a sect of islam... as for shia they make a good minority in pakistan. and they dont have as much probglems in pakistan as they have for example in saudia

Irrelevant; does not make any sense.

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Salam,

Well another lively debate. Couple of points:

- I noticed a few people scorning others for not knowing what "nasbis" means.

This is not a word that any Sunni would normally be familiar with. I only know it from seeing it around on the internet and some other forums. It's not a word I've ever heard any of my Shia friends use.

It's not a word we use, or that is commonly understood, so rather than get incredulous at the idea that people don't know about it, how about you just chill and explain what it is.

Many others of you have already done this, so that's good of you.

- Someone said something about very few Sunnis accept that Hassan (ra) was Caliph. That's incorrect. The Caliphate was his, but he agreed to hand over to Muawiyah. His claim to Caliphate ended when he gave bayah/forfeited power to Muawiyah. As far as I am aware, part of the understanding was that Husayn (ra) would take over after Muawiyah. But as we all know, it didn't turn out that way.

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So in sunni thoughts Ahle Bait(AS) don’t come in any ranking.

As per Sunni(Morg) the following is the ranking.

a. Allah

b. Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)

c. Nabis

d. Sahaba

e. ----

Is this not Nasbiyat?

If you yourself or somebody else don’t agree with your given thoughts; it will give you a proof of contradiction.

However there are many examples, which can be given as proof.

Irrelevant; does not make any sense.

ahle bait are considered within the sahabas, tabiyeens, talba tabiyeens.

the ranks you shows is not correct we dont believe in nasbis or nasibis whatever you mention.

heres the rankings

Allah swt

Mohammad saww

prophets first the law bearers, then the other prophets

sahabas (then including the ahle bait, ali (ra) fatima (ra) hassan (ra) hussain (ra)...)

tabiyeen (including the second generation of ahle bait ali ibn hussain (ra)... )

talba tabiyeen (including the students of tabiyeen and ahle bait who were tabiyeens, jaafar saadiq (ra))

then comes the imams ,faqis, and other ullamas, and just rulers

imam noman ibn abu hanifa (ra)

imam jaafar saadiq (ra)

hazrat umar ibn abdul aziz (ra)

imam malik (ra)

imam mohammad ibn idris al-shafei (ra)

imam ahmad ibn hanbal (ra)

imam ghazali (ra)

imam bukhari (ra)

imam muslim (ra) ....

then there are awlias and ullamas who came later on the momins and leaders of theyr times , many also known as sufi saints

abdul qadir jillani (ra)

......

in addition there are mujaddids who arrive every century and other great ullamas.

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I don't know what a Nasibi is and given the explanation here I highly doubt they even exist. Don't get me wrong, there are anti-Shia people, but to say they "curse Immam Ali (ra) is simply not true. Imam Ali (ra) is highly respected as a companion to the prophet and the 4th Khalif.

Do not equate anti-Shiism with "cursing" Immam Ali (ra), that is simply misleading.

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The issue is not that the Sunnis hate Ahle-Bayt and family of our prophet but the main problem is that they love literally all including prophet, Ahle-Bayt, companions etc. They love the personalities who fought each other in different wars in Islamic History as they dont want to ponder on who was on right path and who was on wrong path. They are not taking sides. They are basically afraid of thinking, so they are just following their family religion and beliefs. Wars such as Battle of Jamal and Battle of Safin, they think that both sides were right and thousands of muslims died who took sides. Even some of Sunnis still believe that Yazid was innocent Hazrat Hussain (as) was deceived by his own people.

The issue with Shias is that they have taken sides with the family Ahle-Bayt and consider who followed them was right and opposed was wrong, as simple as that.

According to Sunnis both Hazrat Ali (as) and Muawayyia both are innocents and both are Radhiallah talahanah (ra) in battle of Safin

Both Hazrat Ali (as) and Hazrat Ayesha (ra) both were innocents and both are Radhiallah talahanah (ra) in battle of Jamal

And according to some extreme Sunnis both Hazrat Hussain (as) and Yazid are innocents and both are Radhiallah talahanah (ra) in battle of Kerbala

All subsequent Imams (as) and Rulers of Banu Ummayd and Abbasiyed are innocents and both are respected

This means that all of above will go to heaven as well as their millions of followers who died in the wars between themselves.

My muslim brothers according to Sunni belief (wahabi) that Quran and Rasool (SAWW) are enough then even companions and caliphs are useless and all muslims are same and someone in Rasool's (SAWW) era is not so important as all were muslims and all decisions and fights were based on human judgements and they would have err in their judgements.

Edited by raza786

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