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What cause Nasbies came in to being

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My opinion is :

It was because of Sunnies; They bring in such kind of people who were enemies of Islam, Ali (AS), Imams (AS) and rest of Ahle Bait(AS). Ali (AS) killed many of their people in Holy wars, then for revenge they started abusing Ali (AS) and Ahle bait (AS).

Morg, Abdaal, beeru, delight, mobeen and all other memeber are invited to participate.

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Assalam o Alaikum

There are both types of factors involved.

1st: Initially Nasibiat started due to Bani Ummaiyyah and their lovers. Their governors (through out 90 years) spreaded nasibiat from the throne.

2nd: Then came latter generations of Shias, who openly criticized or abused Muawiyyah (which was one of Star Like Sahabi for some Ahle Sunnah). When their concept of companionship came under attack due to Muawiyyah, some of them started becoming Nasibies and they started refuting the Truth in order to defend Muawiyyah and Companionship.

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Assalam o Alaikum

There are both types of factors involved.

1st:  Initially Nasibiat started due to Bani Ummaiyyah and their lovers. Their governors (through out 90 years) spreaded nasibiat from the throne.

2nd: Then came latter generations of Shias, who openly criticized or abused Muawiyyah (which was one of Star Like Sahabi for some Ahle Sunnah). When their concept of companionship came under attack due to Muawiyyah, some of them started becoming Nasibies and they started refuting the Truth in order to defend Muawiyyah and Companionship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sorry to bother but what does nasibi or nasibiyat mean?

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I am sorry to bother but what does nasibi or nasibiyat mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nasibi is the one who slanders Prophet(s) or Ahlulbayt(as)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes ! As it is explained a bit in the question as well.

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Nasibi are against Hazrat Ali.I don't know where syed zeeshan gets his definition from.If nasibi or nawsib are against the Prophet (pbuh) ,then they are non Muslims,no need to talk about them.

As explained very nicely by zainabia,both factors are involved.

One are extremist.They think both Muawiya and yazid were innocent.

Some started as a revenge against the slander of sahaba.

Then there is delight,who started this whole business of criticizing Ali. :)

I love Hazrat Ali as a wise and brave person.I don't think it is part of being a Sunni to defend sahaba and hadeeth.

But on reading history,I honestly feel murder of Hazrat Uthman was not handled wisely.

Hazrat Ali would have thought that the old man will die soon after getting the khilafat.When after Three years Hazrat uthman was still healthy,a plot was hatched.

The only result was that the wall between Arabs and qyrish fell down.

Arab wanted vengeance for the death of khalif but were killed.

Hazrat Ali was killed by Arabs.

The society had become again anarchist,due to mishandling of the whole affair by Hazrat Ali.

Imam Hussein was killed not only because he went against Yazid.But because savage Arab,who used to kill their Prophets,was awoken by Ali.They have already killed two khalifs,now they killed the Prophet,s family.

That is the difference between an ordinary person and a leader.

Ordinary person hardly change his own future.

But the wrong decisions of leaders affect a whole chain of events in future.

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^^

So this Shajra-e- Khaisa was planted first by Sunnies within them, by their false –caliphs for their interests.

Obviously Nasbies are non-muslims. They use the name of Islam for destruction. The reason we talk about them, that sunni sect is being currputed because of them. Many Sunnies are becoming Nasbies day by day because of ignorance like Qadiyanies.

They don’t have any fixed creed; whatever comes in their evil mind against Ahle Bait becomes their creed. There is no level of extremism, fanaticism and there is no level any tolerance in them. Their sole purpose is to pass negative judgments on and criticize Ahle Bait (AS) which is HARAM even if somebody does this in joke. Ullema of Fiqah says that it break the fast (sawm) if you talk against Allah, Prophet (PBUH) and Ahle Bait(AS) even if you are joking.

Now a day another radical form of Nasbiyat came up in form of Wahabiyat. They say that they love their 4th Caliphs but hate Shias 1st imams. This Bidah never happened before though there was lot more people there against shia , non of the Shia critic or opponent did like this. They don’t hesitate to use their dirty tongue against Ali (AS). If they want to critics Shia there are lots of other ways too don’t know from where they got these kinds of teachings. They don’t feel any bad when they pass comments against his policies esp in case of Murders of Usman but when somebody give his opinion regarding first three caliphs.

How easily this thought come in their mind that Ali would have thought that Usman will die in three years but they cant think the same thing about Umar when he made Abu Bakr the caliph. The same thought would have come in Umar’s mind that Abu Bakr he would die in two-three years, and that is what happened and Umar became the king.

How easily they talk about the conflicts of Arabs and Quraish and direct them against Ahle Bait(AS) but they don’t think the same kind of policies were made to bring Bani Ummayah against Ahle Bait (AS). They don’t think how Ummayah were appointed on key posts of the kingdom. And later on they caused greater problems for Islamic Ummah. This happened all because of 3 caliphs and Nasbi(Ummayah) minds grown under the shadow of their kingdoms. delight said very well: The wrong decisions of leaders affect a whole chain of events in future.

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may i know which sunni would like to call himself a nasibi ?

i dont think sunni'ism and nasibi'ism are similar .

well a/c to the deifnition given by zainabia of a nasibi, than they can not be muslim in anyway, and i hope u all agree with me on this point

that sunni luv prophet (saw) sahaba and ahl e bait (may Allah be please with them all ).

so the point here is what made this extremist group rise. their can not b just one cause.

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may i know which sunni would like to call himself a nasibi ?

i dont think sunni'ism and nasibi'ism  are similar .

well a/c to the deifnition given by zainabia of a nasibi, than they can not be muslim in anyway, and i hope u all agree with me on this point

that sunni luv prophet (saw) sahaba and ahl e bait (may Allah be please with them all ).

so the point here is what made this extremist group  rise. their can not b just one cause.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since they haven’t adapted this name by themselves; as this is a general practices all groups, which go astray, want to stay and name themselves with-in the main group for destruction. but after being exposed by the people; they give them new names to distinguish them. This happened with them.

The origin of Nasbi'ism is Sunni'ism and there are many factors in Sunni'ism which support Nasbi'sm this is why and how they came into being. Though Sunnies claim that they love Sahaba and Ahle Bait (AS); but they mix-up good and bad in it like Hindus.

True love of Allah only proves, if you love Allah in addition to it, it also demands you to hate and stay away from His enemies. Similarly true love of Prophet(PBUH also demands you to hate & stay away from his enemies. same is the case with Ahle bait(AS), true love will only proved once you hate their enemies too. you can keep.

Nasbi'ism originates in Sunni'ism when Sunni give love to the enemies of Ahle bait(AS) and bring their enemies to the same or higher status. When ignorant people learn these things that these people are also beloved, they start hating their opponents in revenge or just for the protection of their interests unknowingly that these are beloved of Allah and Prophet (PBUH).

Sunnies think that they are doing it for good, but it goes all wrong.

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Oh I Get It Now, It Is More Like an Opposite Of Rafidah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes we can say, If loving Ahle Bait(AS) makes them Rafidah. (Imam Shafi)

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The fourth khalif entered Politics,so how can he scape criticism.The first three are also criticized by shias for their political decision.

This is great that you can criticize our elders but your elders are holy.

Shia can abuse the closest companion and relatives of his including his favorite wife.They even negate the verses of Quran prohibiting this.So where in the Quran is mentioned that you cannot criticize Hazrat Ali?

Sunnis don't believe in ancestry.

Otherwise sons of Hazrat Abubakr and Umar would have been the next khalif.

I never defend khalifs only mother,as a man cannot take abuses against her.

But tell me one thing.

By what tradition of Sunni the Prophet (pbuh) loved a killer?

Even those in Jail at the time of conquest of mecca for the crimes of murder,were the only one not pardoned.

And they were the killers of kafirs.

But a killer of Muslim,Muhammad s/o Abubakr was loved by Ali as the closest companion.

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My God! - You're even more of a moron than your signature suggests. You're here on a Shia discussion forum to presumably take on Shias in debates, and yet you don't even know who the nawasib are? For goodness sake find out- you'll probably come to realise in due course that you too are one.

Oh I Get It Now, It Is More Like an Opposite Of Rafidah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited by majafri

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Raifidah == People who curse Sahabahs == Most of Twelvers

Nasabia == People who hate Ali (ra) != Sunnis or Zaidis

(If you say that Nasabia == Sunnis , can you prove that Sunnis hate Ali (ra) )

النواصب ، تعريفهم ، حكمهم ، أماكن وجودهم والأحاديث الواردة فيهم ]

وإنما قلنا : إن الناصبي كافر *، لما يعرف في كتب اللغة وغيرها : أن النصب بغض أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام .

ففي ( القاموس ) ما لفظه : النواصب والناصبية وأهل النصب : المتدينون ببغضة علي ، رضي الله عنه لأنهم نصبوا له ، أي : عادوه اهـ .

فإذا ثبت أن الناصبي من يبغض عليا عليه السلام ، فقد ثبت في الأحاديث الصحيحة الصريحة في كتب الحديث المعتمدة أن بغضه كرم الله وجهه في الجنة نفاقٌ وكفرٌ : فمن ذلك مـا رواه مسلم في صحيحه ، وابن أبي شيبة ، والحميدي ، وأحمد ، والترمذي والنسائي ، وابن ماجة ، وابن حبان ، وأبو نعيم في الحلية ، وابن أبي عاصم ، عن علي عليه السلام أنه قال : والذي فلق الحبة وبرأ النسمة إنه لعهد النبي الأمي إليَّ : أن لا يحبني إلا مؤمن ، ولا يبغضني إلا منافق .

وأخرج نحوه : الترمذي ، وعبدالله بن أحمد في ( زيادات المسند ) عن أم سلمة ، والديلمي عن ابن عباس ، والخطيب في ( تاريخه ) عن أنس .

وثبت أن : ( من أبغض عليا فقد أبغض الله ورسوله ) وبغض الله ورسوله كفر بلا ريب .

فمن ذلك ما رواه الطبراني وابن عساكر عن عمار بن ياسر .

والدارقطني والحاكم في مستدركه والخطيب عن علي كرم الله وجهه والطبراني عن أبي رافع .

وأخرج ابن عساكر عن عمرو وقال : رجال إسناده مشاهير غير أبي القاسم عيسى ابن الأزهر المعروف ببلبل ، فإنه غير مشهور .

وأخرجه أيضا ابن النجار عن ابن عباس .

وفي الباب أحاديث كثيرة من طرق عن جماعة من الصحابة .

وفي هذا القدر كفاية ، فإنه يثبت أن الناصبي كافر ، وأن من قال لرجل : يا ناصبي ! فكأنه قال : يا كافر ! . ومن كفر مسلما كفر ، كما تقدم .

وقد أحسن من قال :

عليٌ يظنون بي بغضه * فهلا سوى الكفر ظنوه بي

وقد أراح الله سبحانه وتعالى من النواصب ـ وهم الخوارج ومن سلك مسلكهم ـ فلم يبق منهم أحد ، إلا شرذمـة بعمان ، وطائفة حقيرة بأطراف الهند ، يقال لهم ( الإباضية ) .

فليحذر المتحفظ من إطلاق مثل هذه اللفظة على أحد من أهل الإسلام غير هؤلاء ، فإنه بمجرد ذكر الإطلاق ، يخرج عن الإسلام ، وهذا ما لا يفعله عاقل بنفسه .

وما يبلغ الأعداء من جاهل * ما يبلغ الجاهل من نفسه

عجيبة : ومن العجائب أنا سمعنا من جهال عصرنا من يطلق اسم الناصبي على من قرأ في كتب الحديث ، بل على من قرأ في سائر علوم الاجتهاد ! ويطلقونه أيضا على أئمة الحديث ! وأهل المذاهب الأربعة ! .

وهذه مصيبة مهلكة لدين من تساهل في ذلك ، ولا يكـون إلا أحد رجلين : إما جاهل لا يدري ما هو النصب ؟ ولا ما هو الناصبي ؟ أو غير مبال بهلاك دينه ، ومن كان بهذه المنزلة ، لا ينتفع بمثل هذا النصح الذي أودعناه هذه الرسالة ، وليس علينا إلا القيام بعهدة البيان الذي أوجبه الله ورسوله ، ليهلك من هلك عن بينة .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* هذا فيه نظر فمطلق الغمز أو الطعن بـ( علي رضي الله عنه ) لا يعد من نواقض الإيمان وإلا لقلنا بكفر بعض الصحابة ، فبعضهم خالف عليا وجـرى بينهم كلام !! . أما من كفره أو قال بلعنه فلا شك بكفره ، وإن كان هذا معتقد كل النواصب فهم على هذا كفار . ( تعليق . م )

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My God! - You're even more of a moron than your signature suggests. You're here on a Shia discussion forum to presumably take on Shias in debates, and yet you don't even know who the nawasib are? For goodness sake find out- you'll probably come to realise in due course that you too are one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(salam)

Did I Make Any Debates In This Thread? Just Because I Didnt Know What Nasibi Meant. I Am Sorry That I Was Not Aware Of The Word Nasibi As Most Of My Knowledge Is Not In Arabic Or Whichever Language Is That. And I Asked Many Sunnis But They Didn't Know What Nasibi Means, Seems To Me It Is More Like a Shi'a Made-Up Word.

Thank You.

(salam)

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if Ahlul Bayt (as) consisted of the caliphs, that would be fine. But the Ahlul Bayt (as) consists of more than Ali (as) and Hasan (as) (for the FEW non-shias that even recognize that he (as) WAS a caliph).

But as I pointed out yesterday, can one REALLY love Ahlul Bayt (as) if they also love their enemies? For instance: Is it possible to TRULY love Allah (SWT) if one also loves Iblis? I think the answer to that is clear.

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Sunni have a way by which they love everybody connected with the Prophet (pbuh) ,both family and companions.

I believe in shia Philosophy that Sunnis must take side,for or against the few ahlul bayt,who joined politics.

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^ in the same way then they should love all those connected with Allah (SWT)... that would include Iblis, who had been one of the best worshippers, right?

Learn to discern good from bad, and SAY it's bad! it is your islamic DUTY to do so. not claiming all as good, or refusing to say bad is bad even when you know it's bad.

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You can make your posts and flowery and nice with "pleases" and "thank yous" but that's not going to make you polite. What will TRULY make you polite is to come up with an unoffensive signature. It's not just the images i'm talking about, it's the accompanying text. Until then you can call yourself polite a million times over, but you will still come across to everyone else as rude.

Finally, it's no wonder you (nor many other Sunnis) don't know who/what the nasisbis are. That's because they're a humiliation to Ahlus-Sunnah, and an embarassment that Sunnis wish didn't exist.

If you would like to learn more about nasibis, please read "beeru"'s threads that make his/her hatred of ahlul bayt crystal clear. I pity you if you find yourself agreeing with beeru.

(salam)

Did I Make Any Debates In This Thread? Just Because I Didnt Know What Nasibi Meant. I Am Sorry That I Was Not Aware Of The Word Nasibi As Most Of My Knowledge Is Not In Arabic Or Whichever Language Is That. And I Asked Many Sunnis But They Didn't Know What Nasibi Means, Seems To Me It Is More Like a Shi'a Made-Up Word.

Thank You.

(salam)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited by majafri

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Sunni have a way by which they love everybody connected with the Prophet (pbuh) ,both family and companions.

    I believe in shia Philosophy that Sunnis must take side,for or against the few ahlul bayt,who joined politics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This thought is like HINDUS, though there are 1000s of sects in Hindus but they call everybody who live in India who, dress like hindus and have some kind of concept about idols and Bagwan. Even there is a movement in India RSS, now a days they are trying to bring muslims in india as a Hindu sect in india.

Sunnies (esp Nasbies in them) do have the same kind of thoughts.. Love everybody. Love Allah, Love Satan, Love Musa, Love Samari - Love Hussain and also love Yazid.

This concepts in Nisbies came in them from Sunni ideology. The only one to hate. "Ali (AS) and his Shias".

but Sufies are a good example here for Hindus.

the logic Nasbies provide is wrong.

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My opinion is :

It was because of Sunnies; They bring in such kind of people who were enemies of Islam, Ali (as), Imams (as) and rest of Ahle Bait(AS). Ali (as) killed many of their people in Holy wars, then for revenge they started abusing Ali (as) and Ahle bait (as).

Morg, Abdaal, beeru, delight, mobeen and all other memeber are invited to participate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

one thing is to differ with the shias. i am not a wahabi or nasibi , but i am sure wahabi aint the same as nasibi couse wahabis does not believe in tasawuff and waseela, they read the quraan litterlary as well as hadiths, and hit down hard on everything. thats the main difference within sunni and wahabi

about nasibi please tell, but im sure not any salafy/wahabi can not be a anti ahle bait

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there are extremists and moderates in EVERY group. shias and nasibis are not at opposite ends of the spectrum because all, or even most, shias are NOT extremists.

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Im saying they are opposites because shia curse Aisha/Abu Abu Bakr (as) while Nasbies curse Ali (as).

Sunnies, on the other hand dont curse either, they remain neutral like the majority of muslims, taking the benefit of the doubt and keeping away from slander.

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90% of todays shia are rawafids they all have hatred and enmity to sahaba and prophets wife the same way nawasibs have hatred for Ali(ra). The only non rawafid shia sect are zayidi who split from the rest of shia. When Shia asked imam zayid(ra) about Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra). Zayid(ra) answered: “I have never heard any of my family dissociate himself from them, and I have nothing but good to say about them.” Upset with this answer, they deserted him en masse.

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90% of todays shia are rawafid

mashallah thats nice

they all have hatred and enmity to sahaba and prophets wife

sahaba-not really more like hipocrites. we like sahaba and all the Prophets (pbuh) wives cept aisha and thats really wut gets u goin on and on with this stuff

the same way nawasibs have hatred for Ali(ra).

no its not that same way we hate them cuz they r ppl who went against the Prophet (pbuh) and nasabies hate Imam Ali (as) cuz he was with the Prophet (pbuh) big difference

The only non rawafid shia sect are zayidi who split from the rest of shia.

zayadi is a political group made by some dude and inshallah i will bring my proof of that

When Shia asked imam zayid(ra) about Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra). Zayid(ra) answered: “I have never heard any of my family dissociate himself from them, and I have nothing but good to say about them.” Upset with this answer, they deserted him en masse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well then i think he was drunk when saying that or he was asleep for the hundreds of years so he never saw anything like Ahlul Kahaf

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no its not that same way we hate them cuz they r ppl who went against the Prophet (pbuh) and nasabies hate Imam Ali (as) cuz he was with the Prophet (pbuh) big difference

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually they curse Ali (as) because they beleive he was against Muhummad(saw) the same way shia curse Abu Bakr (as) because they beleive Abu Bakr(as) was against the prophet. So you see how both are similar. Lots of ingorance leading to rabid cursing of the Prophet's family and companions. This is why majority of muslims stay away from this fitnah.

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Actually they curse Ali (as) because they beleive he was against Muhummad(saw)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they can believe wut ever they want but they cant prove it (that Imam Ali (as) was against the Prophet (pbuh) )bro,

we can (prove abu bakr harmed the Prophet (pbuh) and Ahlul Bayt (as) and islam as whole)

Edited by umm_alawi

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[b]they can believe wut ever they want but they cant prove it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They have their own hadiths backing it up, with lots of arguments and "refuations", just like you have your own hadiths and arguments.

On the other hand, the majority of muslims (ie: sunnis) tred the middle ground, staying away from slander and fitnah so that we can concentrate on worshipping Allah and following the example of Muhummad(saw).

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.

But tell me one thing.

By what tradition of Sunni the Prophet (pbuh) loved a killer?

But a killer of Muslim,Muhammad s/o Abubakr was loved by Ali as the closest companion.

Muhammad ibn AbuBakr(ra) was a great man even if he killed uthman according to your version.A letter carrying instructions to kill him was dispatched under uthman's seal

Two veterans of Badr were also involved in killing of uthman

and uthman was sheilding the killer of Niyar of Banu Aslam

uthman thought he was khalifat-ul -Allah " viceroy of Allah" appointed by God what a horrible innovation that was when previous two caliphs considered themselves simply deputies of the prophet(saw) whatever his earlier services to islam may have been and despite his personal piety he was an incompetant oppressive ruler who was helpless infront of Marwan and people were suffering because of this

. When Shia asked imam zayid(ra) about Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra). Zayid(ra) answered: “I have never heard any of my family dissociate himself from them, and I have nothing but good to say about them.” Upset with this answer, they deserted him en masse.

but you must admit that even he didnt say anything about uthman

But on reading history,I honestly feel murder of Hazrat Uthman was not handled wisely.

Hazrat Ali would have thought that the old man will die soon after getting the khilafat.When after Three years Hazrat uthman was still healthy,a plot was hatched.

The only result was that the wall between Arabs and qyrish fell down.

Arab wanted vengeance for the death of khalif but were killed.

Hazrat Ali was killed by Arabs.

Imam Hussein was killed not only because he went against Yazid.But because savage Arab,who used to kill their Prophets,was awoken by Ali.They have already killed two khalifs,now they killed the Prophet,s family.

That is the difference between an ordinary person and a leader.

Ordinary person hardly change his own future.

But the wrong decisions of leaders affect a whole chain of events in future.

what twisted version of history have you read...........

are you accusing Ali of planning to murder uthman?

lets see Ammar,AbuDharr,Talha,Abdullah ibn Masud,Hashim ibn Utbah, all had a role to play not to mention ayesha in the revolt against uthman so according to your logic they are all murderers of him

what wrong action of Ali affected the future? and how do you think it should have been handled?

Which arabs wanted vengence .....banu ummayyah the old enemies of the prophet

which arabs killed uthman ........ansar the helpers of the prophet(saw)

Actually they curse Ali (as) because they beleive he was against Muhummad(saw) the same way shia curse Abu Bakr (as) because they beleive Abu Bakr(as) was against the prophet. So you see how both are similar. Lots of ingorance leading to rabid cursing of the Prophet's family and companions

very true

. This is why majority of muslims stay away from this fitnah.

according to quran staying neutral in fitna is NOT an option,you have to find the just cause and support it. Ali and Ammar were both on the right side that is proven beyond doubt by ahadith

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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this is a big discuttion. and no one should blame one another sect for the nasibis beeing.

first of all i dont know what a nasibi is

second as i have seen many shias on this forum say that nasibis are wahabis and salafis.

now how did they come into beeing

actually they evolved around a society full of innovation both in the sunni and the shia camps. they believed that islam had lost its original face. and that it needs to be restored.

i am not a wahabi or salafi, but i think this is the reason. and it could be plenty of them. a discuttion shoul be full of legal and logical arguments.

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this is a big discuttion. and no one should blame one another sect for the nasibis beeing.

first of all i dont know what a nasibi is

second as i have seen many shias on this forum say that nasibis are wahabis and salafis.

now how did they come into beeing

actually they evolved around a society full of innovation both in the sunni and the shia camps. they believed that islam had lost its original face. and that it needs to be restored.

i am not a wahabi or salafi, but i think this is the reason. and it could be plenty of them. a discuttion shoul be full of legal and logical arguments.

Its good that you somehow tried to answer by yourself although at first you said that you don’t know about Nasibis. However;

In "Lisan al Arab" by Ibn Manzur states:

"Nawasib are those who hate Hadhrath Ali, and embrace that hatred as part of their faith"

May Allah's curse be upon such people!

In "Taj al Uroous", we read:

"Nasibi are those who hate Ameer ul Momineen Ali bin Abi Talib (as) and take that enmity as part of their faith".

"Tadhrib al Radhi" provides the following definition:

"Nasibi ideology means hating Ali and preferring Mu'awiya".

"Hadiya al Sahil" elaborates yet further:

"Nasibi ideology is a type of flawed character that is very bad, in its worst form is has a hatred for the Imam of Guidance Hadhrath Ali, and takes this as part of its Deen / Iman".

Now the questions are, from where they came?

Who was their founder?

how they entered into Ahle Sunnah as their part?

why a number of Sunnies are unable to distinguish them?

Why Ahle Sunnah allow them to living in between them?

Why don’t they set them apart?

Jazak Allah

inuit

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