To all Indo-Pak Syeds

[Syed1105]

On 6/4/2009 at 9:06 AM, husainshahid said:

As Salaam Alaykum

I am no expert on this.

Talking to people including ulema over the years and reading books I can add some info for you here:.

1. You are correct a group of Rizvi syeds did go to Zaidpur (I think in 16th century). From there a migration occurred to Karari, and from there onto the neighbouring town of Manjhunpur in 19th century (recently capital of Koshambi District, now back in Allahabad district). In fact there is an urdu book on this group of syeds. Those latter are currently both towns in Allahabad district (eastern UP) and have shia communities and big imambaras. Some prominent Syed Maulanas who recite majlis and are well-known could fill you in like Uruj Ul-Hasan Meesum as he comes from Karari and mentioned it.

2. Rizvi Syeds - there is a lineage descended from the family of that famous extremist shia called Agha Mir Mutaumud Dawla, prime minister of awadh in the 19th century. The area of Lucknow called Agha Mir Dheori is named after him. Anyhow, he migrated to India in approx. the 1820s and became the PM of Awadh in the time of Ghazi ud Din Hyder. Agha Mir was the grandson of the famous Persian sufi pir Syed Shams of Multan who migrated to Sindh and has a massive mazhar in Sindh with alams to this day (not to be confused with the other famous sufi Syed Shams who was many centuries before and was Rumi's companion). Anyhow Agha Mir instituted tabarra in Lucknow and the sunnis did not like him one bit. He got exiled to Kanpur and lost his prime ministership, and there's mention of him in that Mirza Ghalib series with Nasir ud Din Shah and so on. Anyhow, his family split into 2 settlements in Kanpur one in Gwaltoli and the other in Patkapur. There are 2 huge imambaras associated with both these sites, both built by Agha Mir and he's buried inside one of them. There is also a photo of him in (I think) Husainabad in Lucknow and elsewhere. Anyway, a lot of syeds in the city of Kanpur descend from his family. There are also saiyids from Sindh descended from Syed Shams without the direct link to Agha Mir. If you do a search on the latter all sorts of infromation will come up.

3. Some info . on Zaidi syeds - the settlement you speak of at "Muthikpur" (on the map its called Motikpur) and several surrounding villages constitute a large syedwara and they all descend about 150 to 200 years ago from a neighbouring town called Belaon where there is a big syed graveyard there and the main grave has religious events associated with it as it is meant to be a spiritual place. Anyhow, these all descend from Syed Alim ud Din and his brother. The migration of his ancestor occurred from Terbez in Transoxiana (near the River Oxus, just north of Khurasan) in 1192 to Delhi. A descendant married the daughter of the Syed king Shah Ibrahim Sharqi (Sharqi Dynasty of Jaunpur) but because of this marriage when the Lodhis of delhi fought the Shaqi kings the Lodhis attacked the king's son-in-law (these Syeds' ancestors) and killed them all except the women and children. The lineage continues from those children whose lives were spared on account of a relationship to the Lodhi king's mother. There are 2 printed books on this group of syeds but they're in urdu. Again ulema have come from this syedwara and you could ask them (I think Safi Haidar Sahib may be from the syedwara).

4. Kazmi / Musawi Syeds. I have a book in english which has some details. It is a book written by a maulana called Syed Zafar Mehdi Sahib Qibla, and one of his sons became a mujtahid. He was born about 1800 and lived into his 90s. Its got his ancestry and a family tree in it. The book, "Tahzib ul Khasail" is interesting. Anyhow, a group of Musawi Syeds migrated during the Mongol invasions of Iran and the leader was called Syed Abu Talib Ashraf. Some of his descendants settled in Jarwal, which is in UP. Again there are ulema from this family so you could ask them for details. They also particpated in the Indian Mutiny against the British when Maulana Zafar Mehdi was imprisoned by the British and had a lot of his estate apparently confiscated.

If you really need more information I can get some from the above books which I have not read for a long time and none cover to cover. Some of the books are very long and I'll have to get someone to translate the urdu ones. So serious requests only please.

Wa Salaam

My great grand father was syed Mohammed Mir from lucknow.

is it possible to get syed Mohammed aga Mir shajara. We are Rizvi syed.

[Guest Wali Haider]

can anyone please tell that from where can i get the book , tareekh e saadaat e bahera by khan bahadur sayyed muzaffar ali zaidi . though i have its pdf , but i want a hard copy

[Guest Syed Kamran Haider Rizvi]

On 6/3/2009 at 10:36 PM, husainshahid said:

1. You are correct a group of Rizvi syeds did go to Zaidpur (I think in 16th century). From there a migration occurred to Karari, and from there onto the neighbouring town of Manjhunpur in 19th century (recently capital of Koshambi District, now back in Allahabad district). In fact there is an urdu book on this group of syeds. Those latter are currently both towns in Allahabad district (eastern UP) and have shia communities and big imambaras. Some prominent Syed Maulanas who recite majlis and are well-known could fill you in like Uruj Ul-Hasan Meesum as he comes from Karari and mentioned it.

2. Rizvi Syeds - there is a lineage descended from the family of that famous extremist shia called Agha Mir Mutaumud Dawla, prime minister of awadh in the 19th century. The area of Lucknow called Agha Mir Dheori is named after him. Anyhow, he migrated to India in approx. the 1820s and became the PM of Awadh in the time of Ghazi ud Din Hyder. Agha Mir was the grandson of the famous Persian sufi pir Syed Shams of Multan who migrated to Sindh and has a massive mazhar in Sindh with alams to this day (not to be confused with the other famous sufi Syed Shams who was many centuries before and was Rumi's companion). Anyhow Agha Mir instituted tabarra in Lucknow and the sunnis did not like him one bit. He got exiled to Kanpur and lost his prime ministership, and there's mention of him in that Mirza Ghalib series with Nasir ud Din Shah and so on. Anyhow, his family split into 2 settlements in Kanpur one in Gwaltoli and the other in Patkapur. There are 2 huge imambaras associated with both these sites, both built by Agha Mir and he's buried inside one of them. There is also a photo of him in (I think) Husainabad in Lucknow and elsewhere. Anyway, a lot of syeds in the city of Kanpur descend from his family. There are also saiyids from Sindh descended from Syed Shams without the direct link to Agha Mir. If you do a search on the latter all sorts of infromation will come up.

Salam,

can you please give us the name of the book or books that has history of Rizvi Syeds from UP? my grandfather was from Allahabad and we had a Sharjah but it has become very difficult to read as the paper has aged and broken down / decomposed. 

any help will be appreciated. 

[Abu Hassanain]

3 hours ago, Guest Syed Kamran Haider Rizvi said:

Salam,

can you please give us the name of the book or books that has history of Rizvi Syeds from UP? my grandfather was from Allahabad and we had a Sharjah but it has become very difficult to read as the paper has aged and broken down / decomposed. 

any help will be appreciated. 

Salam

not judging you, this is a point for everyone in general

This is why in every generation or every couple generations they should be rewritten and it’s better that they be kept in a paper form and they save to an email account or online is a backup

A lot of times you can go to the local Sayyids ie Sadat from the area you’re originally from and they keep records

Not as dramatic as the story of Alex Haley from roots where he finally hears the name of his ancestors, but it’s been done

My wife backtracked from her native American side to one of the clans of the Cherokee that is Sayyid Shia some where she was able to trace the name of the person who came over in 1313 to Morocco get the records there from there she was able to go to Egypt from Egypt. She was able to go to Iraq for a rock, she was able to get back to the prophet , peace and blessings be upon him.

if you know you are Sayyid and you have a good idea or know which family and which region it can be done

wallahu Alam 

[Guest Syed Kamran Haider Rizvi]

3 hours ago, Abu Hassanain said:

Salam

not judging you, this is a point for everyone in general

This is why in every generation or every couple generations they should be rewritten and it’s better that they be kept in a paper form and they save to an email account or online is a backup

A lot of times you can go to the local Sayyids ie Sadat from the area you’re originally from and they keep records

Not as dramatic as the story of Alex Haley from roots where he finally hears the name of his ancestors, but it’s been done

My wife backtracked from her native American side to one of the clans of the Cherokee that is Sayyid Shia some where she was able to trace the name of the person who came over in 1313 to Morocco get the records there from there she was able to go to Egypt from Egypt. She was able to go to Iraq for a rock, she was able to get back to the prophet , peace and blessings be upon him.

if you know you are Sayyid and you have a good idea or know which family and which region it can be done

wallahu Alam 

Salam, 

my daughter in law is part Cherokee. It would be interesting to know which Cherokee clan your wife traced the Moroccan Sayyid roots to. And yes, we have kept the recent parts of the Shajra up to date, but the original paper is too old and we were unable to digitize some parts due to damage. 

[Irfani313]

11 hours ago, Guest Syed Kamran Haider Rizvi said:

Salam,

can you please give us the name of the book or books that has history of Rizvi Syeds from UP? my grandfather was from Allahabad and we had a Sharjah but it has become very difficult to read as the paper has aged and broken down / decomposed. 

any help will be appreciated. 

W’salam cousin -:)  

Same clan, same last name, same area of ancestors. Once you get enough messages here and get to the messaging, please send me a personal message here and we’ll connect the dots up way together inshAllah. 

Edited January 18 by Irfani313