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In the Name of God بسم الله

Friday Prayers

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Dear all

I have noticed that in some mosques in karachi, there are Friday prayers (2 rakat), where as in some mosques there are Zuhr prayers (4 Rakat) instead of 2 Rakat. Can anyone through light on this controversy

thanks & regards

sazim

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So if you are in Taqleed of Sistani, you can switch Zuhur with Juma prayers, because in this mosques in karachi, there used to be Juma prayers sometimes back, now no more.

I assume that the conditions mandatory for Juma prayers are there, as before, presumably this change is due to Taqleed. IF that is the case, how come Marjah's have different ruling on the same issues, since the sources of their knowledge is the same (Quran, Hadiths and Guidance from our 12th Imam )

Can please some one explain this

regards

sazim

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well, if they are shia, then they cannot have juma prayers within the same local area. there is a distance limit. Maybe they are too close to each other (it's 3 miles or so)

"47. d. There should not be another Juma’ prayer held in the same vicinity, i.e. within a radius of roughly five and a half km. Should there be two Juma’ prayers, i.e. within the same neighborhood, both will be deemed batil, if they were started at the same time. In the event of one of them starting where the first had finished, the one started later will be deemed batil. However, if one of the two prayers has been deemed batil, for any reason, it should not affect the outcome of the other prayer."

perhaps that was the reason??

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So if you are in Taqleed of Sistani, you can switch Zuhur with Juma prayers, because in this mosques in karachi, there used to be Juma prayers sometimes back, now no more.

I assume that the conditions mandatory for Juma prayers are there, as before, presumably this change is due to Taqleed. IF that is the case, how come Marjah's have different ruling on the same issues, since the sources of their knowledge is the same (Quran, Hadiths and Guidance from our 12th Imam )

Can please some one explain this

regards

sazim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which mosque are you talking about?

Secondly, in the absence of Imam az-Zaman (aj), Jummah prayers are Wajib-e-Takhiri (I think this is what it is called).

Also, the distance play its role too. For example they hold Jummah Namaz in Masjid Noor al-Iman, but not in Rizvia Imambargah because they are too close to each other.

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Which mosque are you talking about?

Secondly, in the absence of Imam az-Zaman (aj), Jummah prayers are Wajib-e-Takhiri (I think this is what it is called).

Also, the distance play its role too. For example they hold Jummah Namaz in Masjid Noor al-Iman, but not in Rizvia Imambargah because they are too close to each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is wajib e takhiri, and the website i was given, refer to this concept under Sistani's taqleed.

sazim

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well, if they are shia, then they cannot have juma prayers within the same local area. there is a distance limit. Maybe they are too close to each other (it's 3 miles or so)

(salam)

What?

haha. I have never heard this before! What would be reasoning be for this?

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Not personally sure of the reasoning. but it is 'the' friday prayer, not 'a' friday prayer if you see what I'm saying. In the Quran it says when you hear the call to Friday prayer you must stop what you're doing. Its for all the muslims in that area to cease trading or whatever, and go straight the the friday prayer.

it should be the main prayer in the community which everyone goes to.

btw, wajib takhyiri refers to something that is obligatory, but you can choose which way to fulfil that obligation. In that you have the option to pray Juma, or pray Thuhr, with either being necessary to fulfill the obligation for prayer at that time, and one or the other actually fulfilling the obligation (you have the choice).

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What is wajib e takhiri, and the website i was given, refer to this concept under Sistani's taqleed.

sazim

Look for the answers to your questions below. it was taken from Ayato. Sistani website. I think it covers most of the rules.

----------------------------------

Namaz-e-Jumuah

740. Friday prayers consists of 2 Rak'ats like Fajr prayers. The difference between these two prayers is that Namaz-e-Jumuah has two sermons before it. Namaz-e-Jumuah is Wajib Takhyiri, which means that we have an option to offer Jumuah prayers, if its necessary conditions are fulfilled, or to offer Zuhr prayers. Hence, if Namaz-e-Jumuah is offered then it is not necessary to offer Zuhr prayer.

The following conditions must be fulfilled for Jumuah prayers to become obligatory:

The time for Jumuah prayers should have set in. And that means that the midday time should have begun to decline. The time for Namaz-e-Jumuah is the earliest part of Zuhr. If it is very much delayed, then Namaz-e-Jumuah time will be over, and Zuhr Namaz will have to be prayed.

The number of persons joining Namaz-e-Jumuah should be at least five, including the Imam. If there are less than five people, Namaz-e-Jumuah would not become obligatory.

The Imam should fulfil the necessary conditions for leading the prayers. These conditions include righteousness ('Adalat) and other qualities which are required of an Imam and which will be mentioned in connection with the congregational prayers. In absence of an Imam qualifying to lead, Namaz-e-Jumuah will not be obligatory.

The following conditions should be fulfilled for the Namaz-e-Jumuah to be correct:

The prayers should be offered in congregation. Hence, Namaz-e-Jumuah cannot be prayed alone. If a person joins Namaz-e-Jumuah before the Ruku of the second Rak'at his prayers will be valid and he will have to add another Rak'at to complete it. But, if he joins the Imam in the Ruku of the second Rak'at then the prayers may not suffice, and as a measure of precaution Zuhr Namaz should be prayed.

Two sermons should be delivered before the prayers. In the first sermon the preacher should praise Allah and exhort the people to observe piety, and then he should also recite a short chapter (Surah) from the holy Qur'an. Thereafter he should sit down for a while and then stand up again. This time also he should praise Allah and invoke peace and blessings upon the holy Prophet and the holy Imams and, as a recommended precaution, seek forgiveness for the believers. It is necessary that the two sermons should precede the Namaz.

It will not be correct to offer the prayers before the two sermons. And, it is not permissible to deliver the sermons before Zuhr time has set in. It is also necessary that the preacher should be standing while delivering the sermons. Hence, if he delivers sermons while sitting, it will not be in order. It is also necessary and obligatory that there should be a break between the two sermons by way of sitting down during the interval for a while. It is also necessary that the preacher who delivers the sermons should also lead the prayers.

Taharat may not be a condition for delivering the sermons, but as a precaution, it should be maintained. As far as the glory of Allah, invocation of prayers and mercy upon the Prophet and the Imams are concerned, it must be rendered in Arabic, but the rest of it need not be in Arabic. In fact, if the majority in the audience are non-Arabs, then as an obligatory precaution, words of admonition and exhorting people to be pious and virtuous should be delivered in their language.

The distance between the two places where Namaze-Jumuah are offered should not be less than one Farsakh (3 miles). Hence if the distance between the two places is lesser and both the prayers commence at one and the same time both will be void. And if one of those prayers precedes the other (even to the extent of Takbiratul-ehram i.e. the first Takbir) the one which precedes will be in order and the other will be void.

If, it transpires after the Namaz-e-Jumuah is over that another Namaz-e-Jumuah had commenced earlier or simultaneously at a distance of less than farsakh, it will not be obligatory to offer Zuhr prayers. It is immaterial whether this information is received within the time or later. Moreover, a Namaz-e-Jumuah can stop another from being held within the stipulated distance only if it is itself valid, comprising of all conditions, otherwise it cannot have any prohibitive effect.

741. When Namaz-e-Jumuah, with all its requirements is held, it will be obligatory to attend it if one who established it is Imam (A.S.) or his representative. But in a situation other than this, joining or attending it is not obligatory.

When attending is obligatory, the following points must be considered:

The person joining should be man. Presence in Jumuah prayers is not obligatory for women.

Freedom. Hence it is not obligatory for a slave to be present in Jumuah prayers.

Not being a traveller. Hence Jumuah prayers is not obligatory for a traveller, regardless of whether the traveller prays Qasr or full prayers, as he would do if he intends staying for 10 days or more.

Being free from ailment and blindness. Hence it is not obligatory for a sick or a blind man to offer Jumuah prayers.

Not being old. Hence Jumuah prayers is not obligatory for old men.

That the distance between the place a person is and where Jumuah prayers is going to be held should not be more than 2 farsakh (11 Km) and it would be obligatory for a person who is at the end of 2 farsakh to join the Namaz. And similarly, participation in Jumuah prayers will not be obligatory for a person who finds it extremely difficult, because of rains, severe cold and so on.

742. A few rules concerning Jumuah prayers:

It is permissible for a person, who is exempted from Jumuah prayers, and for whom presence in Jumuah prayers is not obligatory, to hasten for Zuhr prayers in the early part of its time.

It is Makrooh to talk while Imam delivers the sermon. And if the noise created by talking prevents others from listening to the sermon, then it is haraam, regardless of whether the attendance is the minimum required or more.

As an obligatory precaution, it is wajib to listen to both the sermons. However, listening to the sermons is not obligatory upon those, who do not understand their meanings.

The second Adhan on Friday is an innovation. And it is the same Adhan which is usually called the third Adhan.

It is not obligatory for a person wishing to join Jumuah Namaz to be present while Imam is delivering the sermon.

Conducting purchase and sale at the time when people are called to Jumuah prayers is haraam, if it hinders the prayers, and not if it does not hinder. And inspite of it being haraam, the transaction done would not be void. When it was obligatory for a person to be present in Jumuah prayers and he abandoned it, and offered Zuhr prayers, his prayers would be in order.

Taken From www.sistani.org

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Guys, still not clear

Please answer the following question

If all the conditions mentioned by Sistani's website, for Salat - Jumma are present. Which Salat must be offered ?

Salat Jumma ( 2 rakat), or

Salat Zuhur ( 4 rakat)

Please keep in mind that all the conditions prevails for Salat Jumma

thanks & regards

sazim

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if all the conditions, then it has to be Juma.

Whilst the Imam a.s. is in occultation, all the conditions are not there, hence the 'choice' at the moment.

taken from the sistani quote above:

741. When Namaz-e-Jumuah, with all its requirements is held, it will be obligatory to attend it if one who established it is Imam (A.S.) or his representative. But in a situation other than this, joining or attending it is not obligatory.

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if all the conditions, then it has to be Juma.

Whilst the Imam a.s. is in occultation, all the conditions are not there, hence the 'choice' at the moment.

taken from the sistani quote above:

741. When Namaz-e-Jumuah, with all its requirements is held, it will be obligatory to attend it if one who established it is Imam (A.S.) or his representative. But in a situation other than this, joining or attending it is not obligatory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

meaning Imam's presence is a must for Jummaa prayers, is that the condition

I cannot believe this, people have been performing jumaa prayers since 1400 years, now according to one marjaa, we can choose between Jummaa and Zuhur as long as Imam doesnt appear. This is preposterous. Jumma prayers has much much more importance than normal prayers. There is an entire suraa in quran allocated for this day. It is the holiest of the holiest day in Allah's kingdom, and there is immense sawab in offering Jumaa prayers.

Why would we deprive ourself from this immense sawab by prefering Zuhur over Jummaa, doesnt make sense

can any one please??

thanks & regards

sazim

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(salam)

sazim,

this is shia fiqh, take it or leave it

its not one marja who says this, its the masoom imams wh ohave taught this and the ulema since ghaybat who followed this.

which fiqh do u follow?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are u 100% sure that the imam have taught us to prefer Jumaa prayer instead of Zuhur, in his absence

If so, what is the reasoning, cos

Imam would only practice religion as it was practiced by our Prophet and our 11 Imams.

I think we need to use our brains and ask these pertinent questions, as to why there are so many changes/deviations in our fiqh, if you believe that Our prophet performed Salat Jumma instead of Salat Zuhur on Fridays.

If you believe otherwise, then my history is wrong

What do u think?

sazim

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No-one says Juma is not one of the most important things. It is better than Thuhr prayer.

It's simply an issue whether it is wajib to attend. In the time of occultation, attending it is not wajib, whereas in the time of the imam, attending it would be a must if conditions are fulfilled.

All maraje3 say this anyway not just one.

here is the Ayatullah Fadhlullah ruling just to clarify:

48. Holding Juma’ prayer becomes an absolute obligation in the presence of a just ruler, i.e. in the person of the Imam or his representative. By "just ruler", we mean the person or persons who legitimately rule and uphold justice and fairness between the ruled.

49. Should there be no just ruler, holding Juma’ prayer is obligatory too. However, its being obligatory is a matter of choice to start with; and its being obligatory as a matter of necessity to finish with. That is, the worshippers have to observe the obligation at midday of Juma’, either by holding Juma’ prayer in congregation according to the aforesaid conditions or by holding dhuhr prayer. However, whichever prayer the worshipper performed, it will suffice. That said, holding Juma’ prayer is more superior and more meritorious . Saying that holding Juma’ prayer as a matter of fixed obligation may have a justification.

salaam

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No-one says Juma is not one of the most important things. It is better than Thuhr prayer.

It's simply an issue whether it is wajib to attend. In the time of occultation, attending it is not wajib, whereas in the time  of the imam, attending it would be a must if conditions are fulfilled.

All maraje3 say this anyway not just one.

here is the Ayatullah Fadhlullah ruling just to clarify:

48. Holding Juma’ prayer becomes an absolute obligation in the presence of a just ruler, i.e. in the person of the Imam or his representative. By "just ruler", we mean the person or persons who legitimately rule and uphold justice and fairness between the ruled.

49. Should there be no just ruler, holding Juma’ prayer is obligatory too. However, its being obligatory is a matter of choice to start with; and its being obligatory as a matter of necessity to finish with. That is, the worshippers have to observe the obligation at midday of Juma’, either by holding Juma’ prayer in congregation according to the aforesaid conditions or by holding dhuhr prayer. However, whichever prayer the worshipper performed, it will suffice. That said, holding Juma’ prayer is more superior and more meritorious . Saying that holding Juma’ prayer as a matter of fixed obligation may have a justification.

salaam

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for clarifying the matter further. So its not but atleast the presence of "JUST RULER", well that answers my question

Again the whole thing boils down to being prejudiced, biased and opinionated. We shia have solely claim the right from Allah for deciding who is just and who is unjust.

May Allah help us

sazim

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On 4/5/2005 at 2:21 AM, Rashid. said:

The time for Namaz-e-Jumuah is the earliest part of Zuhr. If it is very much delayed, then Namaz-e-Jumuah time will be over, and Zuhr Namaz will have to be prayed.

How much delay is "very much"? This is important to know because in some mosques, the sermon starts soon after zuhur but the jumaa prayer starts after more than an hour, upto an hour and a half later. In such cases, would jumaa not suffice for zuhur? 

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression there is a significant section of the Shi’ah community that don’t establish the Jumu’ah, as that is one of the functions of the absent Imam, and in his absence, Salat al-Jumu’ah cannot be authorized.

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On 9/17/2020 at 3:51 PM, Aale Mohammad said:

How much delay is "very much"? This is important to know because in some mosques, the sermon starts soon after zuhur but the jumaa prayer starts after more than an hour, upto an hour and a half later. In such cases, would jumaa not suffice for zuhur? 

I haven't been able to find the source but I believe Juma has to be recited within 1 hour of adhaan and if not, then Zuhr has to be offered.

Not 100% sure though.

 

On 9/17/2020 at 3:55 PM, Cherub786 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression there is a significant section of the Shi’ah community that don’t establish the Jumu’ah, as that is one of the functions of the absent Imam, and in his absence, Salat al-Jumu’ah cannot be authorized.

Other way around. Most offer it and some say it has to be by Imam they offer Juma and then zuhr as precautionary.

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