Israel-Palestine conflict

[In Gods Name]

6 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Oh, trust me, that part is loud and clear.

I was referring rather to some people’s pretence here of actually caring about the suffering of the Palestinians. That’s the mask that slips in times like this. 

In reality, they’re just pawns some people here are ready to sacrifice for other ends. If the continuation and amplification of their suffering can make “the bad guys” look bad and harm those bad guys, so be it. Keep the train rolling. That’s how some people seem to think here. 

It’s repugnant. 

Believe me, the vast majority of us want an end to the suffering. Every further day is more children blown to bits, women raped, schools , hospitals and buildings destroyed. 

However, do not expect us to rejoice at a very too-little, too-late attempt as a 'six week ceasefire' which is only a political pawn and is happening four months after we demanded it, after the deaths of tens of thousands of women, children, men,  and the permanent disabling mentally and physically of hundreds of thousands - if not millions. Over half of Gaza is a rubble wasteland. Schools, hospitals, homes, reduced to rubble.

A ceasefire after genocide is in no way going to help alleviate this devastation. Our demands do not end at a ceasefire, that is the absolute minimum, and the people who claim to now support it vetoed calls for one for the last four months, and vetoed any condemnation of Israel.

Imagine someone raping the wife of a man, killing his children infront of him, and then dragging him by his neck outside his house before demolishing it. Then he says, alright, it's your fasting month and this will look bad on me and might bring my ruin, so, let's pause now shall we for six weeks?

And the surrounding helpless crowd looks and are told we should celebrate that? 

[In Gods Name]

Ironically, the person who saliva was foaming in his mouth and was absolutely elated by October the 7th was none other than Benjamin Nethanyahu. He (and i continue to always emphasize this so we can promote dissenting voices inside Israel and show his internal weakness) was facing jail time, corruption charges and a growing population who resented him.

This was his perfect opportunity to deflect that, and also achieve his mission - and that of many of his right-wing zionist apartheid government- to raze Gaza into a rubble wasteland and force its inhabitants into the Sinai desert.

It is he, who has been the only one to be happy with the deaths of his own people, not we, the people supporting the Palestinians, and calling for an end to this four well over four months.

[In Gods Name]

 

Nethanyahu fears this the most - publicising of his internal weakness politically speaking. This is why he is on a bloodthirsty genocide in Gaza to satiate his own and other powerful interests and deflect from this.

There are people hired to act as 'bots' online to try to quieten this and as part of the Israeli online propaganda wing.

[kadhim]

54 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Believe me, the vast majority of us want an end to the suffering

I would love to believe you. 

But the fact that you folks bewail the absence of a ceasefire, but don’t offer a single critical word about the role of the Gazan misleadership in dragging this out is telling. The misleadership of Gaza could have single-handedly stopped this all at any time in the past almost 5 months. They are a prime obstacle — arguably the prime obstacle at this point — to a ceasefire, and none of you say anything about that. 

At the same time, you folks are rubbing your palms together at the prospect of the damage to “the enemy” dragging this out through the coming month will bring. Shame. 

This is why I have trouble taking any of you seriously.

At this point, the only thing a person with morality should be saying is, “All the political parties involved are awful. They all need to stop playing with these people’s lives, sit down, and end this.” 

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[In Gods Name]

21 minutes ago, kadhim said:

I would love to believe you. 

But the fact that you folks bewail the absence of a ceasefire, but don’t offer a single critical word about the role of the Gazan misleadership in dragging this out is telling. The misleadership of Gaza could have single-handedly stopped this all at any time in the past almost 5 months. They are a prime obstacle — arguably the prime obstacle at this point — to a ceasefire, and none of you say anything about that. 

At the same time, you folks are rubbing your palms together at the prospect of the damage to “the enemy” dragging this out through the coming month will bring. Shame. 

This is why I have trouble taking any of you seriously.

At this point, the only thing a person with morality should be saying is, “All the political parties involved are awful. They all need to stop playing with these people’s lives, sit down, and end this.” 

 

The thing is brother Khadim, many of us have no problem, nor any issue criticising Hamas. In fact, we don't even have a sectarian bias towards them, and many would consider Shias as deviant. Many Salafi brothers and sisters themselves don't believe Hamas are the ideal or needed political group to take Gaza forward.

However, people would take you much more seriously if you were not as imbalanced as you are my brother, in how much blame you are apportioning to each side.

It is beyond any doubt that Israel, and Nethanyahu's right wing regime,  have been, and their predecessors, the instigators and maintainers of an illegal blockage, of building of illegal settlements, of murder, kidnapping, and then periodic widespread slaughter of tens if not hundreds of thousands. 

They have kept as hostages millions of people in some of the most inhumane conditions, under siege and occupation, for decades.

If you were to criticise Hamas, but then clearly in your posts apportion what even the most anti-Hamas , but balanced political analysts have had no hesitation in acknowledging and admitting, this would be far more academic.

<>

In terms of 'I would love to believe you' - i've been advocating vociferously for a ceasefire for months.

But don't expect me to bow my head in utter gratitude for the right-wing mass murderer named Benjamin Nethanyahu, and a clear political stunt in the guise of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

The writing is on the wall, they vetoed any and every resolution to end this genocide and bring Israel to account.

Edited March 4, 2024 by In Gods Name

[In Gods Name]

 

[In Gods Name]

 

[In Gods Name]

"Hopes had been high over the past week following talks in Paris that there could be a new Gaza ceasefire deal in place for the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan next week.

However, while Hamas has now sent a delegation to Cairo for further negotiations with Egyptian and Qatari mediators, Israel has not. This looks like a serious new block."

Gaza war: Hopes for ceasefire falter ahead of Ramadan - BBC News

This man is slaughtering, murdering, part of the rape and pillage, wholesale genocide of an entire people.

And he will do it in Ramadhan too, just to spit on us and our graves.

He looks at us , and he tells us how impotent we are, right to our faces.

And we are powerless. Aren't we?

Edited March 4, 2024 by In Gods Name

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

The thing is brother Khadim, many of us have no problem, nor any issue criticising Hamas. In fact, we don't even have a sectarian bias towards them, and many would consider Shias as deviant. Many Salafi brothers and sisters themselves don't believe Hamas are the ideal or needed political group to take Gaza forward.

However, people would take you much more seriously if you were not as imbalanced as you are my brother, in how much blame you are apportioning to each side.

It is beyond any doubt that Israel, and Nethanyahu's right wing regime,  have been, and their predecessors, the instigators and maintainers of an illegal blockage, of building of illegal settlements, of murder, kidnapping, and then periodic widespread slaughter of tens if not hundreds of thousands. 

They have kept as hostages millions of people in some of the most inhumane conditions, under siege and occupation, for decades.

If you were to criticise Hamas, but then clearly in your posts apportion what even the most anti-Hamas , but balanced political analysts have had no hesitation in acknowledging and admitting, this would be far more academic.

<>

In terms of 'I would love to believe you' - i've been advocating vociferously for a ceasefire for months.

But don't expect me to bow my head in utter gratitude for the right-wing mass murderer named Benjamin Nethanyahu, and a clear political stunt in the guise of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

The writing is on the wall, they vetoed any and every resolution to end this genocide and bring Israel to account.

Listen. I’ve said this before. If you guys care about “balance,” then by all means stop talking about it and demonstrate it, and then I don’t have to bother commenting. Done. Khalas. 

I present the counterpoints to your arguments to promote the balance that is clearly lacking here. I don’t see the point in washing that out by repeating the same monotonous things 20 other people are saying. 

But you know what? Out of an abundance of charity, and just to take away any pretence of an excuse for you to keep dodging, I will give you this. Netanyahu is a monster. The misleadership of Gaza lovingly delivered him a scorched earth casus belli on a silver platter with a gold lettered invitation on October 7. They practically begged for Netanyahu to stomp Gaza into ashes. But Netanyahu was also happy to receive that gift from the other enemies of the Gazans in Gaza’s “government.” This much I will give you.

Israel as whole, on the other hand? It’s not an angel. It’s not a demon. It’s just a country like any other. Its creation was messy, but that applies to 50 or 60 other countries born out of the death of empires after WW1 and WW2. It looks after its own security and well being first, just like any other country. It deserves to be there just like any other country. 

Anyone who prays or calls for the destruction of any other country, whether it be ultra-right extremists in Israel or the government of Gaza and their useful idiot supporters, is a sociopath.

Biden ..  is just an average American president standing behind long-term alliances. In reality he is probably about as balanced as you are going to get on this issue from an American president. (Arguably a little more balanced than anyone since Carter.) But any American administration is going to veto those political theatre joke resolutions. Israel just unilaterally pulls back without any expectations or change on the other side and we’ll be back at this again 6 months down the line. That’s not a solution that’s good for anyone. 

So, that generous indulgence done, I pose the question to your “balanced” self:

Do you acknowledge that the government of Gaza is a prime obstacle right now to reaching a lasting ceasefire? 

The answers are yes or no. 

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[Abu_Zahra]

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Do you acknowledge that the government of Gaza is a prime obstacle right now to reaching a lasting ceasefire? 

The answers are yes or no. 

No, and anyone who has followed the most basic level of news, even mainstream news outlets, can see this clearly.  Hamas have been ready to exchange hostages already since October. The zionist leadership has insisted that their first priority is the elimination of Hamas. Anyone who called for a ceasefire was ostracized by the zionist regime, and this was enough to ban someone entry into the occupied territories even if they are a top ranking UN official. 

[kadhim]

7 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

No, and anyone who has followed the most basic level of news, even mainstream news outlets, can see this clearly.  Hamas have been ready to exchange hostages already since October. The zionist leadership has insisted that their first priority is the elimination of Hamas. Anyone who called for a ceasefire was ostracized by the zionist regime, and this was enough to ban someone entry into the occupied territories even if they are a top ranking UN official. 

Thank you for having the directness to answer the question. But respectfully, this is a joke of a response.

The government of Gaza is not even willing to say which hostages are alive at this point. 

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[Ibn Al-Ja'abi]

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Believe me, the vast majority of us want an end to the suffering. Every further day is more children blown to bits, women raped, schools , hospitals and buildings destroyed. 

You're responding seriously to a person lecturing you about you, a person who probably wakes up and goes to sleep with this genocide at the forefront of your mind like everyone else in this thread and like every other decent person InshaAllah, about not caring about the Palestinians while if you go through this thread you can read @kadhim saying things like "don't start it if you don't want it" (putting it less crassly), the Palestinians are an unwanted refugee population that bite the hand that feeds them, that Hamas (who this puerile white boy who has been Muslim for 20 years and still can't pronounce Arabic it seems cause he calls them pork-butt (ham-@ss) as a joke) are cowards for using effective military tactics, that Israel just needs a partner for peace, that al-Shifa was Hamas' command and control center. The fact that he made these arguments for months should be at the forefront of everyone's minds because it tells us three things: (1) he doesn't care about Palestinians, I don't think he cares about brown people generally seeing as the null hypothesis game he was playing when justifying why a hospital was besieged and elderly kidney patients had to die (he also refuses to discuss any of the points he asserted for months, I'm assuming because he knows they are untrue), (2) he's not knowledgeable of the facts at all, despite his constant condescension (unfortunately he read some Arabic words once to become a Muslim but never tried to figure out the ethics expected of a Muslim), and (3) talking down to people, his favorite pastime, is more important to him than the lives of all the Palestinians he took a big fat dump on for months when dehumanizing them. The white guy can talk smart but his points are nonsense. I really recommend you don't lose your cool to him of all people, he's an absolute coward and a monster. Just for the sake of illustration, two cases in point:

 

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Israel as whole, on the other hand? It’s not an angel. It’s not a demon. It’s just a country like any other. Its creation was messy, but that applies to 50 or 60 other countries born out of the death of empires after WW1 and WW2. It looks after its own security and well being first, just like any other country. It deserves to be there just like any other country. 

Ah yes, just the average country that began as a colonial project through collusion with the British and Americans, expelled 750k+300k civilians and then destroyed their homes to prevent return, put the remnant civilians populations of indigenous Palestinians under West Bank style military law so they can now live comfortably as second class citizens, has agitated war with the Arab world since 50s so it can finish the job, etc. How many other countries have such open systems of apartheid? Or created something (Gaza) their right wing generals and heads of intelligence gleefully refer to as a concentration camp when plotting it's ethnic cleansing? It really is amazing you internalized Israeli propaganda of an unfair standard and level of scrutiny being applied to Israel and then you say "I'm not spouting Zionist propaganda!!" What is Zionist propaganda if these are just normal political and historical opinions? It's good to let people speak if it reveals the extent of their nifaq.

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Biden ..  is just an average American president standing behind long-term alliances. In reality he is probably about as balanced as you are going to get on this issue from an American president. (Arguably a little more balanced than anyone since Carter.) But any American administration is going to veto those political theatre joke resolutions. Israel just unilaterally pulls back without any expectations or change on the other side and we’ll be back at this again 6 months down the line. That’s not a solution that’s good for anyone. 

Biden, the most Zionist president as historian Rashid Khalidi identified him, who, until it started sinking in how politically suicidal it was for him to keep offering this level of blind support for Israel, was saying things like "our team didn't do this", he saw the pictures of the dead babies, and he doubts the death toll of Gazans, he is as balanced as Jimmy Carter. Kadhim evidently is suffering from delusion because if he's truly of this opinion then there's no facts that we can offer him that'll make him reconsider, of course not that he would engage in anything that seriously challenges his views because then he's not the smartest guy on SC. 

 

Let this be a lesson, brothers and sisters. You might recite the shahada (and never improve your ability to pronounce Arabic in 20 years then, let alone try to learn it) but it won't instill Iman in you.

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ ۖ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (14)

The Bedouins say, "we have believed." Say, "you have not believed, rather say 'we have submitted' for faith has not yet entered your hearts." And if you obey God and his messenger, he will not deprive you of anything from your deeds. Truly God is forgiving and merciful.

Surah Hujarat, ayah 14.

Even the munafiqin who reveled in the afflictions of the Muslims, even as they claimed to feel sympathy with them, said that they were Muslims.

[In Gods Name]

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Do you acknowledge that the government of Gaza is a prime obstacle right now to reaching a lasting ceasefire? 

The answers are yes or no. 

Brother,

I will reply to your post in entirety insha Allah, but i will leave this for now:

"Hopes had been high over the past week following talks in Paris that there could be a new Gaza ceasefire deal in place for the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan next week.

However, while Hamas has now sent a delegation to Cairo for further negotiations with Egyptian and Qatari mediators, Israel has not. This looks like a serious new block."

Gaza war: Hopes for ceasefire falter ahead of Ramadan - BBC News

[In Gods Name]

For the people of Palestine

My heart is your stone, i'll throw with you.

 

[Abu_Zahra]

55 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Thank you for having the directness to answer the question. But respectfully, this is a joke of a response.

I'm not interested in getting into a long and boring cycle of repeating the same thing again and again, so I'll just do it once:

-the top priority of the zionist regime is to eliminate Hamas

-calling for a ceasefire has resulted in being banned entry into the occupied territories by the zionist regime

-the zionist regime never even pretended to show interest in a ceasefire, even the word ceasefire was unacceptable for it and it's allies during negotiations 

-it is the zionists allies who have blocked every attempted ceasefire call in the UN

As salamu alaikum 

Edited March 4, 2024 by Abu_Zahra

[kadhim]

24 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Brother,

I will reply to your post in entirety insha Allah, but i will leave this for now:

"Hopes had been high over the past week following talks in Paris that there could be a new Gaza ceasefire deal in place for the start of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan next week.

However, while Hamas has now sent a delegation to Cairo for further negotiations with Egyptian and Qatari mediators, Israel has not. This looks like a serious new block."

Gaza war: Hopes for ceasefire falter ahead of Ramadan - BBC News

So:

A. You already posted this above. I’m not sure what you think it adds to repeat it.

B. I’m finding this a tad dishonest as a response, given that you left out the very next paragraph in the BBC article:

Quote

Israeli officials - quoted in local media - demand clear answers from Hamas on key issues as well as a list of the surviving Israeli hostages who could be released with an agreement.

That’s an entirely reasonable request. How does it serve the conversation to deliberately post misleading half-truths? 

I’m giving you a lot of space to work with here (a prime obstacle as opposed to the prime obstacle). I’m just looking for a little acknowledgment that it takes two and that the Gazan government is part of the problem. 

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[In Gods Name]

6 minutes ago, kadhim said:

How does it serve the conversation to deliberately post misleading half-truths? 

 

Any ceasefire can not take place with Israel using their media lobbyists or spokes people to convey messages on the airwaves.

It takes place in formal internationally brokered discussions, which Israel, who seem desperate for answers, did not even send a delegation to.

I don't deny, Hamas have made some grave errors. October the 7th was murder - though not in a vacuum- and completely gave Nethanyahu the gift he was waiting for. I don't deny they may not be going about things in the right way.

But believe me, even a group better than Hamas would get no where with an Israeli right-wing government as morally bereft and obscene as the one led by Benjamin Nethanyahu. 

[kadhim]

15 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

the top priority of the zionist regime is to eliminate Hamas

Which was an entirely reasonable priority after Oct 7. It remains so. In no non-fantasy universe would any country and its people accept a simple prisoner/hostage exchange as a resolution to the situation after something like Oct 7. 

15 minutes ago, Abu_Zahra said:

it is the zionists allies who have blocked every attempted ceasefire call in the UN

I directly addressed the problems with those bad faith resolutions above.

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[In Gods Name]

8 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Which was an entirely reasonable priority after Oct 7. It remains so. In no non-fantasy universe would any country and its people accept a simple prisoner/hostage exchange as a resolution to the situation after something like Oct 7. 

Israel had , for decades, put an entire country under siege. They controlled their trade, their electricity, and in and out goings. They habitually went to war with them, bombing their hospitals, schools, and mosques. 

And let's not even get started on the West Bank, where they build illegal settlements further, raid homes, kill, and imprison many. 

There has been, in effect, a permanent state of war.

<>

Nobody justifies the Hamas attack as what Islam would allow or just, however, we need to have a longer memory than October the 7th, and that is decades of open hostility, war, and murder.

Had this been the USA, the UK, France or any country being put under siege, its people placed in an open air concentration camp, its homes bull dozed, demolished for settlers, its mosques, hospitals and institutions deliberately razed to the ground in a bid to turn it into a rubble waste land, i call this a permanent act of war.

<>

We need to recognise, nobody here thinks a ceasefire is even a drop in the bucket. We demand an end to the occupation. We demand evacuation of illegal Israeli settlers from the homes they stole and demolished and drove the Palestinians out of. We demand Israel get the hell out of Gaza, and take their filthy hands away from controlling and laying it to siege.

Edited March 4, 2024 by In Gods Name

[In Gods Name]

 

[In Gods Name]

Warning: Watch with caution

 

[kadhim]

26 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

And let's not even get started on the West Bank, where they build illegal settlements further, raid homes, kill, and imprison many. 

Allow me to add, to meet you in the spirit of frank, reality-based exchange. We’ve been talking primarily about Gaza here. But let me be clear that I do think the West Bank settlements issue is clearly a problem that doesn’t help things. 

One of the big problems with what the Gaza government did, beyond all the bloodshed in Gaza, is that it will make life harder for the people in the West Bank. Already has.

It undermines the momentum to tackle and roll back the WB settlements. Now it becomes easy for Israel to advance the talking point that, “We tried that 18 years ago in Gaza, moved back our troops, abandoned settlements, and then 18 years later it came back to bite us. We can’t show weakness like this again; they only respect strength.”

The Palestinian leadership likes to shoot its people in the foot. 

Edited March 4, 2024 by kadhim

[Haji 2003]

 

[In Gods Name]

 

[Haji 2003]

13 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

And let's not even get started on the West Bank, where they build illegal settlements further, raid homes, kill, and imprison many. 

Yes the West Bank is a very good contrast to Gaza.

In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority has pretty much been an outsourced proxy for the Israeli security forces. They've done absolutely everything that has been asked of them by the Israelis and the international community.

And what do they have to show for it? And if anyone says that this is all the result of Oct 7, it's been going on well before then, only as usual, MSM haven't been interested.

Quote

During my time in the West Bank, I repeatedly witnessed the failure of the Israeli army and police to stop settler crimes. In fact, on several occasions, as Palestinian shepherds and activists pleaded for help, the authorities either stood down or guarded the marauding settlers – to keep the settlers safe. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/04/israel-settler-violence-sanctions

[Abu Hadi]

There is a Surat called 'Al Bayynat' (The evident truth) in the Quran and the Quran talks about this concept. The Bayynat means that if anyone has doubts about an issue then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will continue to give proofs for the truth of the issue until the final proof, the Bayynat which will completely clarify the truth. 

I believe that this current genocide is the Bayynat for the issue of Zionism and Palestine. There were proofs before this, but this is the clear and evident proof for who the Zionists are and what are their real goals. If anyone still supports Zionism after this or helps them or sympathises with them after the Bayynat, then...well... I don't have to say it, we all know what is on the way for them and it's just a matter of time till it reaches them. Until then, we need to have Sabr and continue to advocate for the cause of Haqq. 

[Haji 2003]

28 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

There is a Surat called 'Al Bayynat' (The evident truth) in the Quran and the Quran talks about this concept. The Bayynat means that if anyone has doubts about an issue then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will continue to give proofs for the truth of the issue until the final proof, the Bayynat which will completely clarify the truth. 

Good inspiration for another one of my blog posts, thanks.

[In Gods Name]

Surprise surprise ladies and gentleman.

 

[In Gods Name]

What could you possibly tell the parent of a little four year old girl, killed right in front of him?

 

[علوي]

On 3/5/2024 at 1:22 AM, In Gods Name said:

Ironically, the person who saliva was foaming in his mouth and was absolutely elated by October the 7th was none other than Benjamin Nethanyahu. He (and i continue to always emphasize this so we can promote dissenting voices inside Israel and show his internal weakness) was facing jail time, corruption charges and a growing population who resented him.

This was his perfect opportunity to deflect that, and also achieve his mission - and that of many of his right-wing zionist apartheid government- to raze Gaza into a rubble wasteland and force its inhabitants into the Sinai desert.

It is he, who has been the only one to be happy with the deaths of his own people, not we, the people supporting the Palestinians, and calling for an end to this four well over four months.

100% true.

The question now is whether he will (or can) start an all-out war with Lebanon in order to prolong his reign. 

[In Gods Name]

Local Israelis DEBUNK NYT Sexual Assault Allegation (youtube.com)

 

[In Gods Name]

 

[In Gods Name]

This is absolutely glorious 

 

[Muhammed Ali]

 

[In Gods Name]