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In the Name of God بسم الله

Israel-Palestine conflict

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I wouldn't take this report too seriously if Kann is the only one reporting it. I just checked my news aggregator websites and I didn't see anyone else reporting on this. So either this is Israeli disinformation (most likely case) or other sources are not picking it up because the initial report is not credible or it is credible but they just haven't picked it up yet. We should not assume it's credible until we have more info. Israeli bots are disseminating misinformation on a continuous basis. 

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Here is an article about this from mayadeen (a much more credible source, IMHO)

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/reverse-unsc-resolution-1701-enacted-in-north--israel---ex-o

It is basically a former Israeli general just complaining that the 'settlers' have to leave :hahaha:

and that Hezb is violating this UN Resolution, while Israel is basically violating all of the UN resolutions including those against genocide. 

Netanyahu is issuing threats, but he is always issuing threats, Nothing new. 

So yeah. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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13 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Here is an article about this from mayadeen (a much more credible source, IMHO)

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/reverse-unsc-resolution-1701-enacted-in-north--israel---ex-o

It is basically a former Israeli general just complaining that the 'settlers' have to leave :hahaha:

and that Hezb is violating this UN Resolution, while Israel is basically violating all of the UN resolutions including those against genocide. 

Netanyahu is issuing threats, but he is always issuing threats, Nothing new. 

So yeah. 

Well israel flattened parts of a famous village called aitaroun yesterday in southern lebanon, theyre starting to give in to their ego. 

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22 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

because every day in Palestine before and since then has been just fine

 

The comments are full of angry zionists showing him 7 oct clips from the 43 minute film by israel, he struck a nerve with them :angry: :mod:.

 

Edited by HusseinAbbas
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Sky security correspondent spells it out

Israel's actions look as if they want to expel the Palestinians

 

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Well, that's one of my opinions validated

Biden and the Saudis have a lot to answer for

 

On 10/27/2023 at 7:09 AM, Haji 2003 said:

As I said earlier in the thread ... we've had normalisation of Israeli relations with some Arab countries, and i can't recall the Palestinians having gotten anything in return.

 

And now we have:

Quote

He says another key cause was "the new Middle-East [plan] presented by Biden" because "Palestinians were not mentioned".

https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1735488329230193029

 

The person being quoted is Ami Ayalon a former head of Shin Bet.

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21 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Why they care, mostly because the settlers are their people. 

I think they feel they must say something to not appear completely one-sided.

However, when the UK Foreign Secretary came out with something similar, it had all the hallmarks of being the result of a deal with the Israelis i.e. he was given permission to say this:

 

Screenshot 2023-12-16 at 18.45.03.png

 

But in return, he also had to say this (almost immediately afterwards):

 

Screenshot 2023-12-16 at 18.45.15.png

 

 

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From 1400 to 1200 to now less than 700 as the total of Israelis killed in the "Khamas massacre." That's less than half. Then you have to imagine how low that number will be when we exclude those killed by Israel themselves and excluding military personnel. 

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4 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

From 1400 to 1200 to now less than 700 as the total of Israelis killed in the "Khamas massacre." That's less than half. Then you have to imagine how low that number will be when we exclude those killed by Israel themselves and excluding military personnel. 

In the end it's going to be close to the 381 number which is the number of iof soldiers Hamas and Israel both acknowledge died in the Oct 7 operation. 

I'm sure there were civilian casualties but it wasn't 400+. Most of those were iof freaking out and bombing their own people along with some Hamas fighters

After all the lies and propaganda is sorted thru this will be the situation. 

 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

In the end it's going to be close to the 381 number which is the number of iof soldiers Hamas and Israel both acknowledge died in the Oct 7 operation. 

I'm sure there were civilian casualties but it wasn't 400+. Most of those were iof freaking out and bombing their own people along with some Hamas fighters

After all the lies and propaganda is sorted thru this will be the situation. 

 

 

Yes the truth is for the patient. We would be foolish to have knee jerk reactions and judgements based on reports from the most lying and evil entity of our time. 

"O you who believe! If a Faasiq (evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done” [al-Hujuraat 49:6]

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Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Rahim 

إِذَا جَآءَ نَصْرُ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلْفَتْحُ

وَرَأَيْتَ ٱلنَّاسَ يَدْخُلُونَ فِى دِينِ ٱللَّهِ أَفْوَاجًا

فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَٱسْتَغْفِرْهُ إِنَّهُۥ كَانَ تَوَّابًۢا


As most of you know, the is Surat An Nasr, Surat 110 of the Holy Quran. This Surat was revealed at a time when the Musims were forced to sign a treaty with the Musrikeen and many felt hopeless regarding the future of Islam and Muslims. It told of a sure victory, which did happen a few years later with the conquest of Mecca. 

I feel that we are at the same moment again regarding the genocide going on in Palestine. Many of us feel depressed and hopeless after seeing video after video of dying babies, women being killed in the streets, doctors and journalists being assasinated by the iof, etc. At the same time, we have a few reasons to be hopeful and I believe that for these reasons we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Zionist entity. Here are a few reasons

1. I have lived in the US my entire life and I have never seen anything like what I am seeing today, as far as the support for Palestine and Palestinians and anger at 'Israel' and Zionism. I have nothing to compare it to. Like I said before, I have been attending anti Zionist demonstrations since the mid 90s in a few different large cities in the US. Maybe, if we were lucky, a few hundred people showed up and usually less than that. We were ignored by the media and none of these demonstrations got any media covereage except on maybe a few very left leading outlets and a few Islamic channels. Now you can barely turn on any news station without hearing about it. This is very positive

The Zionists, since the 1950s in the US have been pushing and sticking to the narrative that 'Americans Support Israel' so this was their justification from taking many hundreds of billions from US taxpayers. Well it's hard for them to say this now, and it's getting harder and harder for them to pretend this is the case, day by day. 

What the reality was (and how they got away with it) is that the vast majority of Americans don't care at all what goes on in the ME, They don't know and they don't care. So the Zionists could push this narrative 'under the radar' and they didn't get any pushback because there was very, very few who actually knew what was going on who could push back against them. Now that many Americans are starting to know what is going on, due to social media and the graphic nature of the videos, they are starting to care and they are starting to see how this affects them, as far as their money going to support genocide and the inevitable 'blowback' that will happen because of this. So even if they don't care about what is going on in the ME, they care about their money and the future of their country. 

Once the issue comes into the light and the Zionists can no longer 'fly under the radar' and Americans are actually informed about the issue, this signals the death knell for the Zionists. Most Americans do not support terrorism and violence against innocent civilians, and when they find out this is happening they will reject it. So this is what's happening. A reason to be hopeful

2. The US cannot send US soldiers into Gaza. There are many reasons for this, but the main one is that once Americans start dying in Gaza, you will see how quickly the US population turns against the war and will demand withdrawal of US troops. It's happened over and over again in recent history. If you think people are turning against the Zionists now, wait until US soldiers start coming home in body bags. Instead of thousands, there will be millions of people in the streets. The US govt knows that and they also know that they lowest level of support for Zionism is in the 18-24 age group, basically the age of the soldiers who would be going to Gaza to fight. So the US Govt has already ruled this out as an options. So the Zionists are on their own, as far as troops. If the US won't commit 'boots on the ground', you think the UK or France will, lol 

3. The iof troops are dying and being injured in large numbers. If you guys watch videos that have been posted about the combat in Gaza or you listen to those who know what their talking about, from a military standpoint, like Scott Ritter, who has a popular podcast here in the US, you will realize that the Zionist have a very short period of time before they run out of troops, or their troops rebel and just leave the battlefield. The US and by extension the Zionist military were set up to fight symmetric (troop to troop, plane to plane, and ship to ship) warfare. They don't know how to fight asymmetric warfare, i.e. what Hamas is doing. This is really obvious by now. The Zionists also do not have the 'stomach' for losing large numbers of their own troops. They have always depended on the US to fight their wars for them. So they are confused, in a panic, and will soon lose and withdraw from Gaza in humiliation. 

After this, I think you will see either the slow death or the quick death of the Zionist entity. We as an Ummah need to start thinking about what we need to do to keep us strong and together in a post Zionist world. Salam. 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, ireallywannaknow said:

Yes the truth is for the patient. We would be foolish to have knee jerk reactions and judgements based on reports from the most lying and evil entity of our time. 

"O you who believe! If a Faasiq (evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done” [al-Hujuraat 49:6]

That’s a valid principle, as principles go.

The problem for you in applying that principle in defense of the behavior of many of you here is that this principle is based on a foundation of honesty and an intention to actually accept the result of reasonable verification. That’s part and parcel of what verify means. Even if—especially if—the results are not what you would have wanted to hear.

When “verify” really just means twist yourself in knots and dismiss whatever evidence you have to in order to reach a predetermined conclusion, that is where “verify” crosses over into truth-covering (kufr). 

Building on this, it’s one thing to harbour a reasonable degree of honest skepticism or desire for verification about the details of some specific atrocity report or another from October 7. The fog of war is a real thing. It’s another thing altogether to desperately throw this as a tactic in some blanket sense at everything at once so that you can stitch it into some quilt of deliberate and stubborn denial.

At some point, a truthful Muslim needs to be real about the overall sense of all the independent reinforcing reports and accept the reality that a God-awful number of unconscionable, brutal atrocities were committed by Hamas members on October 7. 

 

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6 hours ago, kadhim said:

At some point, a truthful Muslim needs to be real about the overall sense of all the independent reinforcing reports and accept the reality that a God-awful number of unconscionable, brutal atrocities were committed by Hamas members on October 7. 

Salam nobody here has denied aggression that has been committed on October 7 which it has been a reaction to too long time brutality of zionist Israel against Palestinians since occupying Palestine by using victim card of Holocaust against Palestinians even  against  jewish Palestinians  which in similar fashion zionist backed MSM are using some zionist propaganda videos & limiting resistance of all Palestinians against fake zionist Israel jut to Hamas in similar fashion they have limited resistance of people of Yemen against zionist invaders likewise KSA just to Houthies by calling houthies as rebels which again arabic KSA backed Media are spreading propaganda against them due to supporting of them from Palestinians which as usual naive people have accepted their rhetoric even some lunatics & fake KSA based accounts have accused them to cooperation with Zionist Isreal . 

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10 hours ago, kadhim said:

atrocities were committed by Hamas members on October 7. 

"those who are with him are hard against the faithless and merciful amongst themselves" which you can find in examples likewise martyr general Soleimani & other people likewise him . 

Never will the Jews be pleased with you, nor the Christians, unless you followed their creed.

10 hours ago, kadhim said:

When “verify” really just means twist yourself in knots and dismiss whatever evidence you have to in order to reach a predetermined conclusion, that is where “verify” crosses over into truth-covering (kufr). 

Yet you see those in whose hearts is a sickness rushing to them, saying, ‘We fear lest a turn of fortune should visit us.’

Maybe Allah will bring about a victory, or a command from Him, and then they will be regretful for what they kept secret in their hearts, (52)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/5:52

10 hours ago, kadhim said:

The problem for you in applying that principle in defense of the behavior of many of you here is that this principle is based on a foundation of honesty and an intention to actually accept the result of reasonable verification. That’s part and parcel of what verify means. Even if—especially if—the results are not what you would have wanted to hear.

When the hypocrites said, and [also] those in whose hearts is a sickness, ‘Their religion has deceived them.’ But whoever puts his trust in Allah, then Allah is indeed all-mighty, all-wise. (49)

https://tanzil.net/#8:49

:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:

Quote

Muhammad, the Apostle of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the faithless and merciful amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in worship], seeking Allah’s grace, and [His] pleasure. Their mark is [visible] on their faces, from the effect of prostration. Such is their description in the Torah and their description in the Evangel. Like a tillage that sends out its shoots and builds them up, and they grow stout and settle on their stalks, impressing the sowers, so that He may enrage the faithless by them. Allah has promised those of them who have faith and do righteous deeds forgiveness and a great reward. (29)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/48:29

Quote

Never will the Jews be pleased with you, nor the Christians, unless you followed their creed. Say, ‘Indeed it is the guidance of Allah which is [true] guidance.’ And should you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you will not have against Allah any guardian or helper. (120)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/2:120

 

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13 hours ago, kadhim said:

That’s a valid principle, as principles go.

The problem for you in applying that principle in defense of the behavior of many of you here is that this principle is based on a foundation of honesty and an intention to actually accept the result of reasonable verification. That’s part and parcel of what verify means. Even if—especially if—the results are not what you would have wanted to hear.

When “verify” really just means twist yourself in knots and dismiss whatever evidence you have to in order to reach a predetermined conclusion, that is where “verify” crosses over into truth-covering (kufr). 

Building on this, it’s one thing to harbour a reasonable degree of honest skepticism or desire for verification about the details of some specific atrocity report or another from October 7. The fog of war is a real thing. It’s another thing altogether to desperately throw this as a tactic in some blanket sense at everything at once so that you can stitch it into some quilt of deliberate and stubborn denial.

At some point, a truthful Muslim needs to be real about the overall sense of all the independent reinforcing reports and accept the reality that a God-awful number of unconscionable, brutal atrocities were committed by Hamas members on October 7. 

 

Those who are occupied have a right to defend themselves. This is a principle of Islam. Which has been stated previously and it is also in the UN Charter

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text#:~:text=Nothing in the present Charter,maintain international peace and security.

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2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Those who are occupied have a right to defend themselves. This is a principle of Islam. Which has been stated previously and it is also in the UN Charter

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter/full-text#:~:text=Nothing in the present Charter,maintain international peace and security.

Everyone has a right to reasonable self-defense. That applies to everyone. That much is true. 

This principle is paired however with the principle that there are limits to what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to tactics. It’s not a blank cheque that forgives everything. When it goes beyond any reasonable standards, it’s no longer self-defense. It becomes fasad fil ard

Edited by kadhim
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22 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

If you guys watch videos that have been posted about the combat in Gaza

The ones with the red triangles ... 

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Dalrymple weighs in on the self-defence issue

For those who don't know, Dalrymple has written a number of books about the British colonisation of India. I think they're pretty good.

 

Screenshot 2023-12-19 at 20.08.51.png

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6 hours ago, kadhim said:

Everyone has a right to reasonable self-defense. That applies to everyone. That much is true. 

This principle is paired however with the principle that there are limits to what is acceptable and what is not when it comes to tactics. It’s not a blank cheque that forgives everything. When it goes beyond any reasonable standards, it’s no longer self-defense. It becomes fasad fil ard

Fasad fil Ard is what the Zionist s did. They took something which was not theirs ie the land of Gaza. They were aggressive in doing this.  They expelled the people who lived their from their homes, starved them, then tried to blow them up with bombs. This happened before and after Oct 7. So what they did was self defense. Most of the world recognizes that. 

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2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Fasad fil Ard is what the Zionist s did. They took something which was not theirs ie the land of Gaza. They were aggressive in doing this.  They expelled the people who lived their from their homes, starved them, then tried to blow them up with bombs. This happened before and after Oct 7. So what they did was self defense. Most of the world recognizes that. 

True or false: 

In traditional Islamic teachings, “self-defense” is not a blanket justification for excusing all types of  acts of violence without limitation.

By the way, I thought your position was that right and wrong are not determined by a vote? That right and wrong are determined in accordance to a match with divine standards of conduct, whether the mass of people agree or not? Have you changed your mind about this?

Edited by kadhim
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17 hours ago, kadhim said:

it’s no longer self-defense. It becomes fasad fil ard

Salam "fasad fil ard" has no definition in Sunni jurisprudence 

 We revealed to the Children of Israel in the Book: ‘Twice you will cause corruption on the earth, and you will perpetrate great tyranny.’ (4)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/17:4

Shia jurists have considered actions such as kidnapping, having a habit of killing the people of dhimma, having a habit of stealing shrouds, practicing magic, and repeating prohibitions as some examples of causing corruption on the earth.

From the government’s view, crimes against security, spreading lies, causing disruption in the economic system, and opening centers of corruption and prostitution are recognized as examples of corruption on the earth, and the punishment of execution is considered for them.

Quote

Dhimmī (Arabic: الذمّي), a non-Muslim among the People of the Book who lives under the protection of an Islamic government under special terms.[1]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Mufsid_fi_l-ard

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Dhimmi

 

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