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In the Name of God بسم الله

To all the sunni ppl

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um ali

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Abdullah three points. 1. I meant every narration of this hadith (in the section: the prophet (pbuh)&HP does not leave heirs) in Sahih Muslim, with the exception of one, which I know nothing about the narrator mentioned, but the others are narrated by either Aisha or Abu Huraira, neither one of which do shias trust as reliable narrators on their own. 2. there are a few major flaws in the hadith you posted thinking it proves your point. Some have already been pointed out by others, but here's my contribution to it. IF Ali (as) knew of this hadith that Abu Bakr used why didn't he tell Fatima (as) before she asked for Fadak rather than testifying on her behalf?! Again the picture you paint besmirches the Ahlul Bayt (as), and all because you defend Abu Bakr no matter what. And 3. Fatima (as) had Qur'an on her side (once again proving Prophet's (pbuh)&HP statement that Qur'an and his Ahlul Bayt (as) would not separate) while Abu Bakr had some hadith which NO ONE else was aware of (no matter how many flawed hadith you bring, as I said, the one you think proves your point doesn't, and the others from Sahih Muslim are from two sources Shias will NEVER trust on their own since they fabricated hadith to suit themselves and those they supported). So once again we have another non-shia claiming hadith trumps Qur'an... It's funny, you guys always jump up and down telling us you follow Qur'an over hadith, and yet you guys show us the truth of what you follow in these debates. Hadith over Qur'an pretty much EVERY time.

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The Prophet (saw) maintained good company with Umar and Umar was involved in alot of the prophet's (saw) affairs, Abdullah ibn Ubay was not. The fact is prophet (saw) would never entrust the affairs of the ummah to a hypocrite, whenever people who were not suitable to be responsbile for an affair, the prophet (saw) would mention it

WHAT IS THE REASON THAT HOLY PROPHET CALLED ABU BAKR AND TOOK THE SURA BACK FROM HIM AND SENT ALI (A.S) WITH IT .

Take for example when Umar said to the prophet upon his death bed "the Quran is sufficient for us", one meaning could be that he was deriding the prophets idea and stating that he knew better than the Prophet (saw) OR he did not want this issue to trouble the prophet in his illness hours (he loved him for God sake!)

Answer me this was his funeral rights more important or the khilafat (didn't these so called lovers of holy prophet (s.a.w.s)Trust Allah the almight(s.w.t){innal laha alla kulle shai in kadeer} they ran for saving islam and teaching us that saving islam was more important then the funeral rights of the one who brought islam for them. bro open your minds and think before you try to protect these people and take their side.

Yes, Islam is not a profession, but as a way of life, it demands from the muslims the adopting of professions by society in order to take care of their affairs. Thus Islam describes the various professions that must be established by specialised individuals and how they are taken care of. Abu Bakr's Profession was wazir to the prophet pbuh.gif, Fatima ra.gif was a housewife to Ali ra.gif, who do you think was more versed in public affairs in Islam?

(can u tell me what do u understand by this ayat of holy quran (33:33) if fatemah Zehra (S.a) is considerd pak and tahir from all najasat how does this thought even comes 2 your mind that she was just a house wife and didn't understand administration (where as abu huraira had a bowl of milk after holy prophet (s.a.w.s) had taken a sip from and he could write so many hadith and the daughter who was so much loved by the prophet that he (s.a.w.s) said that her happiness is my happiness and her anger is my anger and whoever angries me has made Allah (s.w.t) angry after knowing these things how can u favour these kind of people)

Never the less, the proclaimation was mentioned to a small section of the Ummah (i.e. the group returning back to madinah to be precise),

(note: improve ur history not a small section.)

Upon receiving the verse, the Prophet stopped on that place (the pond of Khumm) which was extremely hot. Then he sent for all people who have been ahead in the way to come back ,and waited until all pilgrims who fell behind, arrived and gathered

This Ghadir-e-Khumm event happened on the 18th of Dhil-Hijjah (1410 AH), in 10 Hijra in front of nearly one hundred thousand (100,000) Muslims. While returning from the last hajj (Hajjatul-wida / farewell pilgrimage) of our Holy Prophet (S.A.W.).

and what do u understand by farwell.

i understand where ur coming from but to give u a good example is Imam Ali didnt he used call the man he brought up ya kaatili and Imam Hassan would ask his father u know he will kill u why dont u punish him now Imam Ali said how can i punish him if he hadnt commited the crime yet !! u said that the prophet would of never kept them as companions its after the prophet passed away that they showed there true colours

Subhanallah umali

When I think of Umar's questioning the Prophethood of Muhammad(a.s) in Hudaybiya, where he even got no satisfaction with Muhammad's(a.s.) reply and repeated the same questions to AbuBakr, then I would't be surprised if he prevents the Prophet to write his will in his very last moments.

subhanallah Nesimi

Unless without taqiya you realy feel that the prophethood was the right of ali and muhammad got it by mistake.

who ever says this in any form is not a muslim forget about shia/sunni. we shias don't beleive this [Edited Out] it is a way of the wahabis to divide us.

Brother in a court either the judge is right or the victim both cannot be right by any perspective

you have to decide and finally reach an answer who was right u can't say abubakr was also right and fatemah zehra (s.a) was also right no.

bro check your self think on it especially when u sleep on the bed think at that time and ask Allah the almight to guide you and i am sure u will see the light of faith enshallah

Bro iam sorry if u felt any thing bad about my statements but i can't help if some body tries to say some thing bad about bibi fatemah zehra (s.a) or tries to show her low in front of any one else (bro just imagine the holy prophet(s.a.w.s) used to get down from the mimbar when he used to see janabe zehra (s.a) he used to stand up when janabe zehra (s.a) used to enter the room this is what the respect holy prophet gave to her.

and when she went to the darbar forget about standing for her people are arguing her. :cry: :cry: when i just bring this situation in front of me i feel like crying.

I would ask Allah (s.w.t) to guide all sinceir hearts and soul to the right path and help all to understand the ahlulbayt.

Ameen summa ameen

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Book 019, Number 4355:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: My heirs cannot share even a dinar (from my legacy) ; what I leave behind after paving mtintenance allowance to my wives and remuneration to my manager is (to go in) charity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, why does his wives get allowance and maintenence while Prophet (saw) children do not?

If you claim everything that Prophet(saw) left is charity then no-one inherits, then why does the wives inherits ?

If you notice that only Ayesha makes the claim to deny Fatima(sa) her inheritence . And her words are all politically motivated because this family has a special design for caliphate.

Where are the witness that can support Ayesha claim that she heard Prophet(saw) said that?

It is very naive to think that Ayesha would had the best interest to dispose Prophet(saw) inheritence because neither she nor her dad were trusted by the Holy prophet(saw) to become his wasi, wali and his agent. It was Ali who has the final say on how Prophet(saw) wealth should be distributed because he was the successor

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I have done an internet search for sahih hadith narrated by Abu Zinad and surprise surprise they all parrot hadiths narrated by Abu Hurayra. Enough said for this person's reliability. I stand by my statement, stronger now than even before, that this hadith is not narrated by a single unbiased source (prophets leaving no heirs), they all originate with known fabricators of hadith.

Edited by Aliya
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I have done an internet search for sahih hadith narrated by Abu Zinad and surprise surprise they all parrot hadiths narrated by Abu Hurayra. Enough said for this person's reliability. I stand by my statement, stronger now than even before, that this hadith is not narrated by a single unbiased source (prophets leaving no heirs), they all originate with known fabricators of hadith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"...And Solomon was David's heir...." (Qur'an)

I rest my case.

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yes indeed, we all know Bibi Fatima (as) had Qur'an on her side. I can't believe how some people still think hadith can trump Qur'an, when in fact NOTHING does. Qur'an is the undisputed word of Allah (SWT) protected for all time. Hadith have no such protection. It's not hard to see who follows truth, and who follows their own nafs.

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The Holy Book of Allah mentions Ahlul-Bayt and their exceptional virtue in the following verse which is known as "Purification Verse" (Ayah al-Tat'hir):

"Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you with a perfect purification". (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)

|| /. . | | || | . |

w_7 _|| o_)_,_c .__,_8 ]_,_| 4_|_|| ]_, _, |_o_, |

(_/ . / ( . : : /:

| | : / | .. || | |

| _,_8_D_, o_) _8_D_, q .__,_,_,_|| |_8 |

/: ( / : / : . (_|

Note that the word "Rijs" in the above verse has got the article "al-" at its beginning which makes the word universal. Thus "al-Rijs" means "EVERY KIND of impurity". Also at the end of the verse, Allah states "and purify you a PERFECT purification." The word "perfect" comes from the emphasis of "Tat'hiran". This is the only place in Quran that Allah uses the emphasis of "PERFECT purification".

According to the above verse, Allah expresses his intention to keep Ahlul-Bayt pure and flawless/sinless, and what Allah intends it will certainly take place as Quran itself testifies (see 16:40). Indeed, a human can be sinless because he is not forced to commit sin. It is the human's choice to accept the instructions of Allah and get His help to avoid sin, or to neglect Allah's commandments and commit the sin. Allah is advisor, and encourager, and warner. A sinless human is still a human; no doubt about it. Some people assert that in order to be human, one SHOULD have some mistakes. Such claim is unsupported. The truth is that Human CAN make mistakes but he does not have to.

It is the Grace of Allah that attracts His servants towards Him, WITHOUT compelling them any way. This is our choice to pursue this attraction and refrain from doing mistakes, or to turn away and commit the mistakes. However, Allah has GUARANTEED to show the Right Path and to provide a pure life for those who seek it:

Whoever works righteousness man or woman and is faithful, We shall revive a PURE life for him. (Quran 16:97)

And whosoever keeps his duty to Allah, Allah will appoint a way out for him. (Quran 65:2)

It is worth mentioning the sentence of Quran in verse 33:33 which is related to purification of Ahlul-Bayt, has been placed at the middle of verses related to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and this was the main reason why some Sunnis include the wives of the Prophet in Ahlul-Bayt. However, the sentence related to Ahlul-Bayt (given above) distinguishes itself from the sentences before and after it with a clear distinction. The sentences before and after, use only feminine gender which clearly shows they are addressing the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). However, in contrary, the above sentence uses only masculine gender which is a clear indication that that Quran is changing the individuals who is referring to.

People who are familiar with Quran to some extent, know that such a sharp change of addressee is not a weird-thing, and it has been applied to several places in Quran. For instance we read in Quran:

"O Joseph! pass this over and (O wife of Aziz!) ask forgiveness for your sin, for truly you have been at fault."(Quran 12:29)

In the above verse, "O wife of Aziz" has not been mentioned and the address to Joseph (as) looks to continue. However the transition of the address from masculine gender to feminine gender clearly shows that the second sentence is addressing the Aziz's wife and not Prophet Joseph (as). Notice that both sentences are WITHIN one verse. Also note the immediate change of addressing from Aziz's wife to Joseph and again back to the wife in verses before verse 29 and also WITHIN that verse.

In Arabic language, when a group of women are being addressed, feminine gender is employed. However, if only one man exists among that group, masculine gender is used instead. Thus the above sentence of Quran clearly shows Allah is referring to a group other than the wives of the Prophet, using masculine gender, and that group includes some male members.

From the verse 33:33 alone, we can not conclude that the wives of the Prophet are not included in Ahlul-Bayt. This latter claim can be proven by the authentic traditions of the Sunnis from Sihah Sittah in which the Prophet mentioned who Ahlul-Bayt are; and also by comparing the specifications of Ahlul-Bayt given in the verse of Quran with the behavior of the some of the wives of the Prophet mentioned in Sihah Sittah to prove the contrary.

What can be understood from the verse ALONE is that Allah is changing His address (which was exclusively the wives of the Prophet at the beginning of the verse) to some people who include some male members, and may or may not include the wives of the Prophet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Authentic Traditions

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It is interesting to see that both Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi as well as many others confirm the Shi'ite point of view explained above. In Sahih Muslim, there is a chapter named "Chapter of Virtues of the Companions". Inside this chapter, there is a section called "Section of the Virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet". There exists ONLY ONE tradition in this section, and this tradition has no reference to the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The tradition is known as "The Tradition of Cloak/Mantle" (Hadith al-Kisaa), and is as follows:

Narrated Aisha:

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

Below is the Arabic text of above tradition given in Sahih Muslim:

| || ^ | | | : | . . || .

> q_w |_|| _e_w . _o |_7 _o _D _o 4_,_|_c q o | ]_c _,_,_|| _7 _7

/ / (_) (_| / / : / (_S. (_./

|| | ^ | . | . w | | || | .

. _,_w_7_|| _@ |_7 o_, 4_|_7 > |_9 _|_c . _,| . _w_7_|| _@ |_7_9

(_): . ( (_S (_). (_) .

| ^ | | . | . : | | . .. | ^ | . .

_@ |_7 o_, |_8_|_7 > |_9 4_o_D |_9 .__, _@ |_7 o_, 4_e_o |_7 ]_9

. ( . ( (_|

. | | || | . | | | : ^ | . | . w |

.__,_8 ]_,_| 4_|_|| ]_, _, |_o_, | | |_o o_, 4_|_7 > |_9 _|_c

. : : /: (_| ( (_S

| | : / | .. || | | || /.

| _,_8_D_, o_) _8_D_, q .__,_,_,_|| |_8 | w_7 _|| o_)_,_c

/: ( / : / : . (_| (_/ . / (

One can see that the author of Sahih Muslim confirms that:

Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt,

The purification sentence in Quran (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Muslim (the Author) did not put any other tradition in this section (section of the virtues of Ahlul-Bayt). If the author of Sahih Muslim believed that the wives of the Prophet were included in Ahlul-Bayt, he would have quoted some traditions about them in this section.

It is interesting to see that Aisha, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) is the narrator of the above tradition, and she herself is testifying that Ahlul- Bayt are the above-mentioned individuals (i.e., Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, may the blessing of Allah be upon them all).

Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak" is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:

The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

Here is the Arabic text of above tradition given by Sahih al-Tirmidhi:

" | || | . | " . || | : T || . .. |. .

... 4_|_|| ]_, _, |_o_, | _,_,_|| _|_c 4_, |_|| o ]_8 .__,_| _,

: /: (_S. (_S : /

|. : | | . . || | . : | | .. .

q |_,_w_7 q 4_o_D |_9 _,_,_|| |_c ]_9 4_o_|_w o | .__,_,_, _9

/ / (_S. ( : . (_S

|| : ^ |. . | . w | @ | / | | . |.

||_o o_, o _8_D .__9_|_7 _|_c q 4_, |_w_)_, o_8_|_|_7_9 |_,_,_w_7

(_| ( / (_S / . ( . :

|| . . | . : | | | | | ||

q w_7 _|| o_8_,_c .__,_8 > |_9 _,_,_, |_8 | _@ |_| q_8 o_8_|_||

/ (_/ . / ( . (_S : . (_| / (

. | |. | : | | .. || : | | : |

_,_, |_, o_8_e_o |_, | q 4_o_|_w o | .__,_||_o | _,_8_D_, o_8 _8_D

(_S. : ( / ( /: ( /

. || .. . | /. | / | .. . | || : | ||

_,_7 _|| .__,_, | q ,__)_, |_)_o _|_c .__,_, | ||_o ? 4_|_||

/: (_S / (_S (_|

As we see, al-Tirmidhi also confirms that Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain are the Ahlul-Bayt, and the purification sentence in Quran (the last sentence of Verse 33:33) was revealed for the virtue of the above-mentioned individuals, and NOT for the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Also it is apparent from above authentic tradition that the Prophet himself excluded his wives from Ahlul-Bayt. If Umm Salama (ra) was among Ahlul-Bayt, why didn't the Prophet answer her positively? Why didn't he enter her into the cloak? Why did the Prophet tell her that she remains in her own position? If the Prophet (PBUH&HF) would consider Umm Salama among Ahlul-Bayt, he would surely have entered her to the cloak and would have prayed for her perfect purity as well.

It is also worth mentioning that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) did NOT say: "These are among the Members of my House". He rather said: "These are THE Members of my House" since there was no other member of Ahlul-Bayt who was alive at the time of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Also notice that Umm Salama (ra) who is the virtuous wife of the Prophet is the narrator of the tradition to his son and gives the testimony that who Ahlul-Bayt are.

In the tradition of al-Hakim the wording the last question and answer is as follows:

Umm Salama said: "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not one of the members of your family?" The Holy Prophet replied: "You have a good future but only these are the members of my family. O Lord! The members of my family are more deserving."

Sunni reference: al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416

Also the wording reported by al-Suyuti and Ibn al-Athir is as follows:

Umm Salama said to the Holy Prophet: "Am I also one of them?" He replied: "No. You have your own special position and your future is good."

Sunni reference:

Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v2, p289

Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, p198

Also al-Tabari quotes Umm Salama saying:

I said, "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not also one of your Ahlul-Bayt?" I swear by the Almighty that the Holy Prophet did NOT grant me any distinction and said: "You have a good future."

Sunni reference: Tafsir al-Tabari, v22, p7 under the commentary of verse 33:33

Beside Sahih Muslim and Sahih al-Tirmidhi from which we quoted the Tradition of Cloak on the authority of Aisha and Umm Salama respectively, below are more Sunni references of the Tradition of Cloak who reported both versions of the traditions:

(3) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, pp 323,292,298; v1, pp 330-331; v3, p252; v4, p107 from Abu Sa'id al-Khudri

(4) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p578, Tradition #978

(5) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416 (two traditions) from Ibn Abi Salama, v3, pp 146-148 (five traditions), pp 158,172

(6) al-Khasa'is, by an-Nisa'i, pp 4,8

(7) al-Sunan, by al-Bayhaqi, narrated from Aisha and Umm Salama

(8) Tafsir al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 2, p69

(9) Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, v2, p700 (Istanbul), from Aisha

(10) Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v5, pp 198,605 from Aisha and Umm Salama

(11) Tafsir Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v22, pp 5-8 (from Aisha and Abu Sa'id al-Khudri), pp 6,8 (from Ibn Abi Salama) (10 traditions)

(12) Tafsir al-Qurtubi, under the commentary of verse 33:33 from Umm Salama

(13) Tafsir Ibn Kathir, v3, p485 (Complete version) from Aisha and Umar Ibn Abi Salama

(14) Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v2, p12; v4, p79 narrated from Ibn Abi Salama

(15) Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, sec. 1, p221 from Umm Salama

(16) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb Baghdadi, v10, narrated from Ibn Abi Salama

(17) Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, v1, p193 narrated from Aisha

(18) Mushkil al-Athar, by al-Tahawi, v1, pp 332-336 (seven traditions)

(19) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by Muhibb al-Tabari, pp21-26, from Abu Sa'id Khudri

(20) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p166 (by several transmitters)

... and more ...

Here is another authentic variation of "The Tradition of Cloak" which is related to Safiyya who was another wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Ja'far Ibn Abi Talib narrated:

When the Messenger of Allah noticed that a blessing from Allah was to descent, he told Safiyya (one of his wives): "Call for me! Call for me!" Safiyya said: "Call who, O the Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Call for me my Ahlul-Bayt who are Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain." Thus we sent for them and they came to him. Then the Prophet (PBUH&HF) spread his cloak over them, and raised his hand (toward sky) saying: "O Allah! These are my family (Aalee), so bless Muhammad and the family (Aal) of Muhammad." And Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty, revealed: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a thorough purification (Quran, the last sentence of Verse 33:33)".

Sunni references:

al-Mustadrak by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, p148. The author then wrote: "This tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)."

Talkhis of al-Mustadrak, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p148

Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v3, p33

Although the majority of traditions on this issue show that the last sentence of the verse 33:33 was revealed in the house of Umm Salama (as quoted earlier), the above tradition implies that it might have been revealed in the house of Safiyya. Based on the opinion of the Sunni scholars including Ibn Hajar, it is quite possible that the verse was revealed more than once. In each occasion, the Prophet repeated his action in front of different wives so that they all realize who his Ahlul-Bayt are.

The testimony of three wives of the Prophet (Aisha, Umm Salama, and Safiyya) leaves us no room but to believe that the Ahlul-Bayt at the time of the Prophet were no more than five individuals: Prophet Muhammad, Lady Fatimah, Imam Ali, al-Hasan, and al-Husain (Peace be upon them all).

The fact that the gender in later part of Verse 33:33 is switched from feminine to masculine, has led the majority of Sunni commentators to believe that the last part was revealed for Imam Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husain, as Ibn Hajar al-Haythami indicated:

Based on the opinion of the majority of (Sunni) commentators, the saying of Allah :"Verily Allah intends to ... (the last sentence of the verse 33:33)" was revealed for Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, because of the usage of masculine gender in the word "Ankum" and after that.

Sunni reference: al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p220

Although the Shia have great respect for the highly righteous wives among the wives of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), such as Khadija, Umm Salama, Umm Ayman and ... (may Allah be pleased with them) who closely followed the Prophet and his Ahlul-Bayt before and after the demise of Prophet (PBUH&HF), yet we do not include even those respected individuals into Ahlul-Bayt since the Prophet clearly excluded them according to the authentic Sunni and Shi'i traditions. Ahlul-Bayt have exceptional virtues that no other pious person after the Prophet would possess them in the world, which are according to Quran: sinlessness, flawlessness and perfect purity.

http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/...r_1a_Part03.htm

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(salam)

An Islamic society is different to a Communist one, Communism demands the individuals are not allowed to question or think independently but rather, they must tow the state idea or thought. Thus there are no individuals in society just society itself. An Islamic society is one where everyone is allowed freedom of thought, idea and to question authority, but within the limits of obedience to Allah.

When the Quran challenges us to think about the existence of Allah and to question it- in order to attain firm conviction, who are we do say questioning the ones in authority over us is wrong? (something we need to do today with our leaders and mullahs!).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe all shias are for this idea.

So, the Islamic society back them was open minded and questioning (unlike us today), we confuse this for rebellion but really it was not (except in some cases).

Like during the treaty of hudaybiyah when Umar questioned the benefit of it. This was not a sign of rebellion but really he wanted to attain certainty in the wisdom of the treaty of hudaybiyah- He wanted the Deen of Islam to prevail above all other considerations and he did not see the wisdom behind the treaty until the Prophet (pbuh) explained it to him and settled his heart- which he then accepted. We just accept everything our scholars tell us and our muslim politicians proclaim to us- which is why we are in such a backward and helpless situation today. But Umar put the eventual truimph and victory of Islam above all other considerations and cautiously guarded it against any evil or harm. People curse him for something which actually made him a better person than us.

So did the prophet (SAWW) and on that basis he (SAWW) made the agreement. If umar really wanted the best for islam then why hudybiyah? Why run from Uhud? Why not ask in every matter so his heart can be at peace and insync.

As for Umar being a better person then us thats a big maybe for me. 1 wrong action can wipe out our entire good actions just look at the example of Shaitaan (Not comparing just giving an example) he spent so many years worshipping yet one wrong move and he was done forever

Yes, Islam is not a profession, but as a way of life, it demands from the muslims the adopting of professions by society in order to take care of their affairs. Thus Islam describes the various professions that must be established by specialised individuals and how they are taken care of. Abu Bakr's Profession was wazir to the prophet (pbuh), Fatima (ra) was a housewife to Ali (ra), who do you think was more versed in public affairs in Islam?

Imam Ali (A.S) the husband of bibi fatima (A.S) was. He was in favour of bibi fatima (A.S) getting her rightful inheritence. Imam Ali (A.S) would be this so called "wazir", Maula, flag bearer of Islam etc etc

This is the basis for the Islamic understanding of a state mechanism. Thus, when it came to FADAK, we see that this was understood to be State Property and not private property, due to the nature of how it was used for public benefit by the prophet (pbuh) and it was understood as such by the nature in which it was obtained (state appropriation) and utilised.

.

Well from everything i have read it shows Fadak to be the prophet (Saww) personal property. Yes he (Saww) used the money from it for the state but thats on his own (Saww) judgement.

Thus the successor to the Prophet (pbuh) in public affairs (i.e. the Khaleefah), gains control over this property and must utilise it according to the method the Prophet (pbuh) did. Thus it is not Privately Owned by anyone- to even be an inheritance.

Again you are trying to justify how the property was utilised whereas our gripe is that it wasnt his to begin with. I strongly believe that Imam Ali (A.S) and bibi fatima (A.S) would have followed the same method as the prophet (Saww). This can be further proved that no needy has every gone empty handed from their door. Furthermore on the glory of imam ali (A.S) it is said that he used to gather his few companions and go out in the stillness of the night to give alms or help the needy.

Its like George Bush dying and his family claim the Whitehouse as inheritence

Its more like calling Bush personal house/ranch to be state property and utilized by the next president

For the time being I will answer a brief point.

Why is it that the issue of Fadak becomes a dispute which is portrayed as having only two outcomes, either Abu Bakr or Fatima was lacking intelligence!! just by making a mistake.

I dont defend or claim either was lacking in islamic knowledge, it is such mentalities which today make the muslims backward. Because we are made to follow scholars blindly and any claim that they made a mistake becomes a 'knowledge' comparison match.

People claim that sunni's base their evidence on speculation and assumption but I say that this is a crime commited by everyone? Why is it that Fatima is never wrong because she happens to be the Daughter of the Prophet (saw)? How many prophets had children in the past? where they themselves perfect, just because they were in the prophets households?

Very nice brother. Now ask yourself were the wives of the prophet's perfect, just because they were in the prophets household?

Isnt there a hadith, one who makes ijtihad and makes a mistake get one reward but the one who gets it right, get two rewards.

SO What does being clean from sins have to do with knowledge?? A good muslim can make a mistake in there knowledge as long as their intention was pure.

All we can do, is look at the evidence they used and adopt the strongest we can find- this is the way of the thinking individual.

There is also hadith that specify we should not help ourselves to things which dont belong to us.

Another point, just as the prophet  would not neglect teaching those around him, surely he would not neglect teaching his wazirs (Abu Bakr and Umar) how to take care of the peoples affairs according to Islam? (since it was their job!).

Who has more knowledge on in the issue of Fadak? Allah hu alim, anything you say is just speculation like the Christians would speculate on Jesus being God because he was praised in the bible as being without Sin and perfect. (God=perfection, so the christians put two and two together and came out with five!  ).

Why do you keep forgetting to mention Imam Ali (A.S) in this list of wazirs? It is accepted that after the prophet (Saww) he was the only man who said "ask me whatever you wish" and never got stumped. It is also accepted that umar stated "without ali (A.S) i would have been ruined. There are a few more in regards to this.

I dont think you are doing justice by leaving Imam Ali (A.S) out of this since it was his wife inheritence and he was in favour of her recieving it!

Brother i want to ask you in all honesty are you the member "Perplexed"? I am seeing you using the same lines he has earlier or maybe you are both getting the material off the same site.

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mASHALLAH BROTHER LOGIC U HAVE CERTAINLY PROVEN YOUR NAME

I DON'T UBNDERSTAND WHY IS HE AGAINST THE DAUGHTER OF HOLY PROPHET (S.A.W.S) { NOW HE WILL SAY NO I AM NOT } YOU ASK ANY ONE TO READ HIS ARTICLE I MEAN ANY ONE A CHRISTIAN OR A HINDU HE WILL SAY HE IS FAVOURING ABU BAKRA. EVEN THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THIS STILL HE SAYS I AM NOT AGAINST JANABE FATEMA ZEHRA (S.A)

WHEN Allah THE ALMIGHTY SAYS THAT HE IS KEPT THEM PAAK THEN HOW DARE THEY EVEN THINK THAT SHE WAS LIEING OR SHE WAS NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE WHEN Allah KEEPS HIS HOLY QURAN PAK AND NO NAJASAT IS ALOWED TO BE TOUCHED TO IT AND THIS BOOK WHICH Allah HAS KEPT PAK IS FULL OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE AND NOTHING IS OUT OF IT AND THE LADY AND THE FAMILLY WHOM Allah HAVE KEEP PAK HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE (MAZALLAH)

MAY Allah GUIDE THEM.

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"Thats why we should always pray to Allah to GUIDE non momins to the right path, and to KEEP momins on the right path.

Sister Um Ali was guided by Allah and she saw the light."

Allah has nothing to do w/ shiaism or sunnisim.....God has nothing to do w/ who became the khalifa and who didn't ...... Guidance is only "to" the path of submission to Allah not to the submission and glorification of Abu Bakr, Ali, Hussein (ra) e.t.c.

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I DON'T UBNDERSTAND WHY IS HE AGAINST THE DAUGHTER OF HOLY PROPHET (S.A.W.S) { NOW HE WILL SAY NO I AM NOT } YOU ASK ANY ONE TO READ HIS ARTICLE I MEAN ANY ONE A CHRISTIAN OR A HINDU HE WILL SAY HE IS FAVOURING ABU BAKRA. EVEN THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THIS STILL HE SAYS I AM NOT AGAINST JANABE FATEMA ZEHRA (S.A)

Maybe - Maybe not.. What i am feeling is that majority of the ahlesunnah dont realise the divine nature of the ahlebayt and sell their personalities short.

I am just stumped at the fact that he used the names of Abu bakr and umar and the Prophet (Saww) wazir and forgot all about Imam Ali (A.S).

I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate

Chose Imam Ali (A.S) to be the son in law

Chose Imam Ali (A.S) to sleep on his bed when his (Saww) life was in danger thus making him responsible to clear all debts and securities left with the prophet (Saww)

Prophet (Saww) ordered that all the doors of the houses opening toward the mosque be closed except the door of Ali's house

Edited by Logic
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(salam)

(bismillah)

what does the hadith 'who ever angers fatima (as).....................angers Allah(swt)' tell us?

if one really thinks it is incurring infallibility?

to even think fatima (as) was demanding what was not hers is a sin, and moreover her getting angry, by virtue of not being given what was hers as proven by the quran, is more than sufficient for anyone to understand the right from the wrong.

was salam

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salam alykum to all

i am a former sunni i have been coming on this site for about a year n half now i have learnt so much from here Alhamdulilah. When i first started coming on the site my reason was to prove to my husband who is a shia and to all shia ppl that we were right and you were wrong and that abu baker and umar and uthman were good pious men who loved the prophet and respected his family and that the calipha was givin to abu baker and that Imam Ali was happy with it and did not object. Thats what i have learnt all my life my dad would talk with me about religon and tell me stories about the sahaba i dont even remember once he told me a story about the prophets family. I didnt even know what happend in karbala and who died there until i met my husband and he told me of the events that took place there i remember i couldnt stop crying not just beacuse of what happend but beacuse of all those years that past and i didnt know my husband would tell me about how they took Imam Ali right as calipha and as soon as he would bring it up i would disagree with him and tell him my views and why cant u just accept that abu baker was rightfuly calipha anyway so i started my search and one day i found this site i would get on and read most of the topics which i have to say made me very angry i was just like you i would get angry when they would curse the sahaba and disrespect them so many times i would get off the site i never read any topic that would cures the sahaba after that there were a few ppl who i loved reading there post they would get info from sunni books to prove there point which i found intresting i also found this site very helpful www.answering-ansar.org i recommend u try it it helpd me to see the truth u see the shia did not separate from the sunni ppl it is us who separated from the shia of ahul al bayet the prophet s.a said i leave with you two things this Quran and my Ahul al bayet this is from our own books but we would ingnore it and look the other way STOP for a minute LOOK where you are look at what you read on this site you are in a shia site what dose that mean you see Allah has started to GUIDE you already this is not a sunni site but a shia site think for a minute what am i doing here

may Allah guide you like he has Guided me may he strengthern your iman and love for ahul al bayet we have been fed lies after lies (ADVISE for my shia brothers please when talking with a sunni dont curse it will only push them away always bring proof from there books or they will not listen

What if I told you that all this rivalry over who is greater than who is completely irrelevent? Past generations will not benefit anybody at all. The Qur'an was revealed as a guide and a mercy to all. The Qur'an is the message of the last messenger.

Majority of the Muslims, still querrel over who was greater than who in the generationgs gone by. They dwell themselves in debating over these useless issues that will not benefit themselves in the hereafter. Muslims should have left the past, long ago, and marched forward with Qur'an and remained united after any conflict. Instead, they stay seperated using sperate doctrines and continue to fight.

"And if they are told: "Follow that which God has sent down." They Say: "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing." What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?" [Qur'an 31:21]

So sister, why call your self a Shia or a Sunni or anything else? Allah calls you a 'Muslim' and had perfected your religion on that day:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." [Qur'an 5:3]

"And who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says: "I am one of those who have surrendered [muslimeen]." " [Qur'an 41:33]

Allah has chosen your religion to be "Islam" - Surrender to Allah, not Shiasm or Sunnism.

There is only one true religion - Islam.

All this querrel and fights about status of certain companions will not benefit you in the hereafter:

"And beware of a Day when no soul can avail another soul, nor will any amendment be accepted from it, nor will any intercession help it; they will not be supported. [Qur'an 2:123]

Only your deed and what you achieve in this world terms of the hereafter matters - how much you were aware of Allah in this world:

"If they argue with you [Prophet], say, "I have devoted myself to God alone and so have my followers." " [Qur'an 3:20]

Please stop wasting time in feelings of bitterness and frustration about who was greater and who should have been Calliph etc. Past is past. Again, it will not help you in the hereafter. So stop the feelings of reivalry towards people of opposite sects, Sunni-Shia etc.

The Qur'an contains the message of the Prophet, live your life by its guidance and inspiration:

"We have sent down to you a scripture containing your message. Do you not understand?" [Qur'an 21:10]

"We have sent down the scripture to you only to make clear to them what they differ about, and as guidance and mercy for those who believe." [Qur'an 16:64]

Sects and divisions such as Sunnism and Shiasm is clearly condemned in the Qur'an:

"Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done." [Qur'an 6:159]

"And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them, due to resentment among themselves. And had it not been for a predetermined decision from your Lord, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, those who inherited the Scripture after them are full of doubts." [Qur'an 42:14]

"Turn to Him alone, all of you. Be mindful of Him; keep up the prayer; do not join those who ascribe partners to God [or] those who divide their religion into sects, with each party rejoicing in their own" [Qur'an 30:31-32]

"And hold firmly to the rope of God, all of you, and do not be separated. And remember God's blessing upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts, then you became with His blessing as brothers; and you were on the verge of a pit of fire and He saved you from it; it is thus that God clarifies for you His signs that you may be guided." [Qur'an 3:103]

Edited by AceOfHearts
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i am a former sunni i have been coming on this site for about a year n half now i have learnt so much from here Alhamdulilah.

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but sounds like an advertise.

When i first started coming on the site my reason was to prove to my husband who is a shia and to all shia ppl that we were right and you were wrong and that abu baker and umar and uthman were good pious men who loved the prophet and respected his family and that the calipha was givin to abu baker and that Imam Ali was happy with it and did not object.

At Tijani, who proved that he has a strange attitude live , said that before you.

Dear sister, when we sunnis say that there is a strong bond between Ahl Al Bayt, peace be upon them, and the Sahaba, may Allah be pleased with them, we don't use taqiyyah in that. We say that because when it comes to hadith that we have got from the salaf, the words from As Sahaba passing the Tabe'een and reached the imams of th 4 fiqhs, are hadiths that have been studied over and over, in the schools of hadith, were people divide hadith to 8 types among them are the authentic and the unathentic. They study the course of Elm Al Jarh Wa Tad'deel, Elm Ar Rejjal, The Sahihs, today this is a course of 4 years in Uni.

Thats what i have learnt all my life my dad would talk with me about religon and tell me stories about the sahaba i dont even remember once he told me a story about the prophets family.

This means nothing to us Sunnis, because Shia is the only sect in Islam that believe the Messengers of Allah are not better than the family of the Prophet. I am a Sunni my father never told me a story in religion, instead he told me how great was George Washington. The only story I heard, that he said about religion, is because of me having a long hair, disobying him to cut, and he told my family about the story about Ibrahim's son when he told his father "do what you have been ordered" and he wanted me to be like this son, peace be upon him.

and By Allah, I remember my mum telling me the story of Al Hussian when I was between 8 or 10 years old. And telling me what they did to him when they cut off his head, and till today she asks me that call my son Al Hassan or Al Hussian when I have one. She also gave me the poems of Ali, may Allah be pleased to him to read. She also tells me to send her emails about Zain Al Abedin, Ja'ffer As Saddiq, Al Hassan and Al Hussian, Ali and Fatima, may Allah be pleased with them, so the environment you say u grew up in, and say that its a sunnis one , is not as mine, and as other sunnis and Allah is my witness.

I didnt even know what happend in karbala and who died there until i met my husband and he told me of the events that took place there

Ok your father didn't tell you that ? Havent you went to school ?

What happened in Karbla is just like what happened in Al Madinah...yet Karbala became a holy city after Al Madinah (bed'ah)

Didnt' your husband tell you what happened to Othman ? Didn't he tell you that the man who killed Omer was a Majoosi, worshipping fire, and today he is called baba (referring him as their fathers) shoja3 Ad Deen, of the brave religion his nickname.

i remember i couldnt stop crying not just beacuse of what happend but beacuse of all those years that past and i didnt know my husband would tell me about how they took Imam Ali right as calipha and as soon as he would bring it up i would disagree with him

I would like to tell you that those who took the Khalifah of Ali, as you say, are not the same of who killed Ali, may Allah be pleased with him.

and tell him my views and why cant u just accept that abu baker was rightfuly calipha

Abu Bakr, doesn't need some1 to accept his Khalifah today, at his time the nation was united under the banner he carried. More than Milliare muslim today accept him, let alone who passed away, may Allah have mercy on them.

i never read any topic that would cures the sahaba after that there were a few ppl who i loved reading there post they would get info from sunni books to prove there point

Now, Shia curse and slander a lot, in fact, in most of their online discussions with Sunnis(not christians) they do that, so i understand that you havent read only 10 posts ?

which i found intresting i also found this site very helpful www.answering-ansar.org i recommend u try it it helpd me to see the truth
u see the shia did not separate from the sunni ppl it is us who separated from the shia of ahul al bayet the prophet s.a said i leave with you two things this Quran and my Ahul al bayet this is from our own books but we would ingnore it and look the other way

If you would wanted to reach the truth then know the truth. E3rf Al Haq ta3rf Ahleh, know the truth and youll know its people, not vice versa. And the Sunni books answered the shobhaat in that hadith. But you were not reading the sunni books, u were reading what random sunnis say, and what shia would copy from their scholars in their websites.

Then the praising of the companions in the Quran is more than the praising of Ahl Al Bayt in the Quran. Thats because the number of the companions was more, n shia say only 6 or 7 of the companions were good. Then in the Quran, there is no verse that says hate Aishah and you will go to heaven.

STOP for a minute LOOK

<<looking (sounds like At Tijani)

where you are look at what you read on this site you are in a shia site what dose that mean you see Allah has started to GUIDE you already this is not a sunni site but a shia site think for a minute what am i doing here

<<thinking what am I doing here ?

In sha'Allah guide guides me and you and every Muslim who says that there is no Lord but Allah to the right path.

we have been fed lies after lies

No I didn't.

(ADVISE for my shia brothers please when talking with a sunni dont curse it will only push them away always bring proof from there books or they will not listen)

In other words, use taqiyyah, and thanks for that although u call what in our books is lies in front of us, in a message of advice and guidness, this last advice will do.

I don't mean to be rude, but your way of telling the story is just like At Tijani way, implying sunnis are nasibis who doesnt give Ali the respect he should have. Then he mentions the arguments with sunnis, and how it effected him, I have a book here called Yes I converted to Islam and here is why... no one of the those non muslim backgrounds said thay had arguements with a priest, or any other person in terms of what happened in religion. Thats my point.

Was Salam Alykom.

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