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AlShe3eyah

Israel

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IF only we can !!!  :angry:  . But They have too much back up countries to help them ... death to israel and al yhood . They caused to much pain to our muslim  arab brother and sisters ... they deserve to die . I cant wait till the day i write DEATH TO ISRAEL with the blood of a israelie on there night clubs and bars .

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While I abhor Israel's existence, and the  horror and bloodshed they inflict on our brethren. We should keep in mind that the punishment Allah (swt) will mete out to them is far worse, and more lasting than ANYTHING we can do to them.  Put your faith and patience in Allah (swt) to give justice to our slain and suffering brethren, and put your energies into loving Allah (swt) not hating what we cannot change, as hatred will eat you up inside.

wasalaam

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I dont get this argument..

Sure,we too want peace,but come on..

In Palestine,we dont want the 'israelis' kind of peace.The one that says all other humans are secondclass citizens,and can be treated like dirt.

And wanting peace is not the opposite of fighting.In the case of Palestine,fighting is needed to get anywhere.That has been proven time and time again.

Whenever the Palsetinians decide to stand still for a while,the opportunity is abused by grabbing another piece of their land,and killing a few more people while in the progress.

Its strange,most of the time when the 'israelis' kill or destroy,it is called selfdefenseor the fight agaisnt terror.While most of the time when the Palestinians kill or destroy,it is terrorism.

The worlds logic and sense of justice has passed me right by.

Al7amdolillah!

No peace with terrorists and corrupted murderers!

l'mot l'israel!!

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"IF only we can !!!    . But They have too much back up countries to help them ... death to israel and al yhood ."  

 salamon alaikom wr wb

my sister, why cant we? only cuz we wont.

if you save around $6,000 you(brothers not you) can have a place in HIZBALLAH. if 1 mill brothers did that there would be no israel, if 500thou brothers attack from lobnon, 500thou from syria, 500thou from jordan + the armys from those countrys haaaahh there would be no israel, even if a mill brothers go to lobnon alone we still have a chance of crushing them, but how do we fight? we have to fight the way the basiji youth fought saddam

gernades strapd to our chest and ak-47 blasting till we get close enough to be a shaheed bomb. no tanks no guns no air[Edited Out]gt can stop us. we have to want it. we have to want martyrdom.

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I said it before and i will say it again ... wallahi if i was a guy ( Allah forgive me ) i would have joined Hizballah before i became 17 .. I mean my family has the money alhamdulilah . All i want to do is show I care about Al Quds and I want to hear my voice say AL mote el Israel in front of the Israelies . Aaaaah i hate them astagfurallah .... hate is not good in Islam bas Allah , how can i have such hatred towards humans ? I dont think there humans .

AL MOTE EL ISRAEL !!! AL MOTE EL ISRAEL !!!

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Sister, I understand your feelings, but how can we not try to come up with a better solution than suicide bombings? Too often they don't kill anyone except the bomber themselves, and the aftermath is worse for our Muslim brethren because Israel steps harder on their neck.  Surely we should take on the tactics of Hezbollah, who successfully threw the Israeli occupiers out of Lebanon. They did not use these tactics, they target military and government, not civilians.  The only "upside" to the violence in Israel, is that immigration of Jews from other parts of the world is down almost 30% from last year.  Still not a solution by any means. If we wish to end the occupation, the government shoud be targetted, not the average civilian on the street. Then Israel does that same, only worse (firing into markets, bombing buildings, incursions, demolitions, the list goes on).

Liberate Al-Quds!

Aliya

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Sister , u really think Arabs / Muslims would let those ignorant israelies with no self respect or respect towards the Palestinian society go i dont think so . If we leave it in the hands of the government more and more palestinian youth and babies would die and more families would be torn apart . The government doesnt care for Palestine , if we are talking American wise , belive me they dont . Didnt u hear , Bush would die for israel . Let me refrain what i think Bush should have said , " I am Sharons Puppet " . The GOverment is nothing but a bunch of american racists that have a flag of Israel in every corner of there house and/or a pic of a dead palestinian baby saying Victory on top of it . Now come on , doesnt this make u mad , doesnt these make u want to just grab any israelie from the street and beat the  :uhh: out of them . I really think it does , and wallahi if i were in Palestine right now , and i had my rifle and my gun ide shoot every person that would come by ( israelie ) i wont think twice before killing an *innocent* child because this innocence is just shown to u on American channels otherwise when the spotlight is not on  , them they have the same evil heart his parents have . With the government involvment there wont be no more Quds , and no more Palestine . There would be one zionist country called Israel !!! So Quit with the *Let the Government do there job* and say this with me ... [b:post_uid0][i:post_uid0]AL MOTE EL ISRAEL[/b:post_uid0][/i:post_uid0]

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All I can say is wow. Shia, I admire you so much on this board. While I disagree with you, I like and whole heartily support Israel, I love how gracious you are. You have a patient heart and a head that is on straight! For the rest of you guys, let me reverse a question you always ask. You always ask, Why is it terrorism when the Palastinians attack but self defense when Israel attacks? I ask, why is it terrorism when Israel attacks and self defense when Palastine attacks? You call us, Israeli supporters, ignorant because of our "hypocracy" when you are using the same amount...although I don't call it hypocracy, I call it a matter of opinion. But, here is what I do know. Israel is a soverign nation recognized by the U.N. Palastine is not. Israel has a working, democratic government. Palastine hasn't had an elected leader since May of 99 when Arafat's term ended (He just stayed in office without having another election.) I know Arafat says he wants peace, but then asks members of Hamas to join his cabinet.  While I think Israel has made mistakes throughout this whole ordeal, I am still going to back them 100%. And, sorry to say, but I don't think anyone in the Middle East could take on Israel. They are pretty much a smaller portion of America. They have our weapons, our training and an intellegence service that is on par, if not better, than America's own. Plus, like many of you have noted, America is an ally with Israel, and Britian is an ally with America, so it would be a silly, futile attempt. Also, Alesh3eya: It was Clinton who said he would die for Israel, not Bush. Clinton said it during a DNC fundraiser for his wife, Senator Hilary Clinton. Please, get your information right about who said what if you're going to bash my country. Finally, here is why, my opinion, I think Israel treats the Palastinians as "second class citizens" (Keep in mind, I think this is one of Israel's flaws, but I understand it.) Who killed the Jewish athletes in the, if I'm correct, 1974 olympics?? Palastinians. Who has bombed numerous Jewish airports? Palastinians. Who is behind almost all of the suicide (Homicide) bombers? Palastinians. These people have brought fear to the Israeli state since it's inception in 1947. As much as I know you hate it, Britain NEVER GAVE THE PALASTINIANS THE LAND! It was promised, but the actions of WWII left many displaced Jews without anywhere to go. The Israeli's are just reacting out of 50 years of hatred, fear, and constant war. Here's a fianl question, if the table were turned, do you think the Palastinians would treat the Israeli's the same or better? I would hope for the latter, but I think not.

~Michael

~Michael

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Sister AlSheeyah, who are you addressing in your post?  I never said anything about "letting the govt. do their job", as I don't think either side's govt. wants peace, or what's best for the people they represent.  What I said was, if Hamas stopped targetting civilians, and instead targetted military and govt. targets, it would be more effective in attaining their goal. Right now, the bombing of civilians is being used as an excuse to crush the Palestinians even further, to punish ALL for the actions of a few. If the targets were military or govt. related, those excuses would cease to exist, and Hamas might get outside help (though I know the U.S. will never support anyone but Israel, even if it leads to their downfall).  Hamas should take a lesson from Hezbollah and target military and govt. Hezbollah did, and Israeli occupiers are out of Lebanon, alhamdulillah. We need to stop thinking in terms of punishing ALL for the actions of primarily the Israeli government. If we don't we are doing to the Israelis what the Israelis are doing to our Palestinian brethren. I don't think any of us want to be on that level.

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Krogher,I honestly thought at the beginning of your post I were to see some more logical and reasonable arguements.

It is not strange that you,as a supporter of 'israel',would adore and respect a passive muslim.

If we were all passive,'israel' would have no opposition and would rome the land in no time.While there would be no Palestinians left.

Problem solved,hah?

As much as you like to condemn the Palestinians for their actions,you have no right too...

'israel' is,weither you like it or not,an occupying state,atleast according to pure human rights,for those who cares...

If you decide to support such a state,then you have no right to ask this :

why is it terrorism when Israel attacks and self defense when Palastine attacks?

You should,if you had done your homework on this,know the answer already.

Who moved in on who's territory?

Easy puzzle...

According to the worlds definition of human rights and respect for property and life in this case,you are right in your statements.

According to human nature,basic instincts and human compassion you are totally lost...

A little example is in order...

'israel' is breaking about 60 (or more) UN resolutions,and have for a long time.They still are supported by the same people and nations,and recieve millions of dollars from the USA alone every year.They are being portreyed as the only real victim by the wests media.

Their massacres are being poiliticaly correct covered for and bad exuses flow.

Sharon laughs behind your ignorant,naive backs.

Iraq.

Is breaking how many UN resolutions? 1 ?

Now,the people of our country is to be killed or starved to death.the country is to be attacked by all kinds of high technology weapons from 3 sides.The people,who ofcourse are the outstanding majority of this country,and have absolutely no say whatsoever in political or military issues will die,in thousands,maybe millions.

Saddam dont give a [Edited Out] about what you do to the people.

Bush him self has said that it must never be accepted that someone will not abide by the UN resolutions.

Well,exept for 'israel',that is...

Do you see something wrong here?

It already stinks of corruption.

Your arguement that Britain never gave the land to Palestinians ,but to the jews,falls apart.

Britain has no right to do this,according to human rights.

I honestly dont give a damn why they were there in the first place.

Had it been their own people who had lived there,they would never have 'given' the land to the creation of 'israel'.

Neither would it have been accpeted that their own people were killed and tortured for the sace of increasing jewish population.

Nor would any other nation accept it.

It would fast have been classified as terrorism,and violation agaisnt human rights.

Do you see something wrong here?

You probably believe in the fairytale that most of Palestine was never used by the people too...

Just as you believe 'israel' is a democratic government...

Define 'democracy',please...

'israel' is recognized by the UN.Great...

There is no political institution or governement that is not corrupted.

Some more then others.

When someone like the UN can easily overlook one nations horrific violations agaisnt human beings and property,but will be ready to kill thousands of another nation because their president will not let their representatives into the country,they are obviously totally corrupted.

Wouldnt you agree?

And dont bring about the 'saddam is a treat to the western civilazation' arguement.That too,if you have done your homework,you should know is bull.

You think it is reasonable what the 'israelis' are doing because of some of the actions of the Palestinians?

Again,I do not give a [Edited Out] who gave 'israel' a right to be created on others property.

This has been going on since late 1890's...

The idea of a state for the jews were not created by WW2.It was probably the guilt the west felt by accepting the killings and harrasments of the jews that made them finally give in.

Up untill this point,it was concidered wrong to throw out one people so that another could take its place.

If you would allow yourself to be a little more enlightened on the issue.And use your God given gifts of compassion,respect,love and sense of justice.Your soul would be much better off...

You will not benefit by going thru your life blinded by sweat words and supporting obvious injustice to other members of the human rase.

If you decide to support this kind of cruelty,you must realize you have no right to judge others,at all...

If you wish to love a state violating human rights and stepping on peoples dignity,then you can not blame the oppressed for resisting and using what means they might have to end it.

Thats just plain logical...

If you think for a moment with your heart instead of your programmed mind,you would realize I am right...

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I don't understand why one can't put some blame on Palestine and not be considered an Isreal supporter.

My position on Isreal is this:

They have taken land not part of their original boundaries.  

They have settlements scattered all over the land that was not in thier original boundaries.

They refuse to remove the settlements.

They have displaced and made it close to impossible for Palestinians to live properly.

They make it difficult if not impossible to negotiate.

They are far too agressive.

Yet, my position does not state that Isreal should not exist or that they should all be killed.

There has GOT to be a way to establish 2 states with definitive boundaries, seperate governments, etc.....Isreal has got to be willing to negotiate and not just meaningless rhetoric.  The same goes for Palestine.

The Palestinian people are hurting themselves by supporting groups that want to wage war with Isreal.  It's a losing battle, your children are learning to hate and be violent, you people are suffering more b/c of the violence.  

If only it was so simple.

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Jeehad:

You want to go there, let's. Orginally, whose land was it? Well, it was the Cannanites. Hmmm...not Palastinians. Well, the Philistines come, from where? Cyprus..yep you got it, a Western, predominately Greek, with a large Turk, population. Ok, the Philistines are conquored by the Jews, who were also battling for the land. The Assyrians take some, the Babylonians take the rest. The Persians allow Israel to go back to the land. Israel is taken over by Rome, which falls, and is claimed by the Arabs. Then, for a short while, the Crusade brought it back into the hands of the west (know this, I think the crusades were HORRIFIC! I do not support them at all.) Anyway, the Arabs took it back from the West and Britain captured it in the 19th century. It was promised to the Palastinians whom helped in WWI. WWII happened and left many displaced Jews. (Yeah, we gave it to them because we felt bad for them. 1/3 of the worlds Jews died, can you have no compassion for these people. Also, know most of these people were NOT Hebrew. They were Hungarian, Polish, German, French, Dutch, Russian and so on. So, in 1947, the land was given to the Jews. So, you tell me, whose land is it??? Gee, what do human rights tell you on that one?? I want you to know, which it looks like you overlooked, that I think the Israeli's are handling this in not the best way. Even if you read the Old Testament concerning there right to the land, they are not handling this the way the Bible says. However, I believe that Israel is the lesser of two evils and I believe that with our tradition of supporting them, we will continue. And, Saddam is violating only one UN code? Hmmm...killing Kurds isn't a violation...restricting womens rights isn't a violation? Secratary General, Boutrous Botrous Gallee (I bet I spelled that wrong) set up guidelines on what a legitmate nation is. Guess what, Iraq doesn't fit. Funny, neither does Iran, or Saudi, mostly because of their gross treatment of women (Should I remind you of the fire in the girls school house a few months ago that killed several in the Saudi Arabia??) And, as I have stated, I bet Israel would've been peaceful if they hadn't been under constant attack since their inception in the late 40's. They have been AT CONSTANT WAR WITH YOU GUYS! If you would've let them be, my guess is they would've done the same. Of course that is speculation and holds no ground. Hey, I'm not a Sharon fan. Get Benjamin Netenyahu back in there, that is a guy of integrity. And, for a definition of Democracy, goverment by the people, rule of the majority. Democracy comes from the Greek word, demokratia. Since I'm guessing you don't know Greek, and I am a student of the language, let me tell you what that means...literally the people's strength. Now, by your own post, Iraq does not have a democracy. The power is in the hands of a few. However, who votes in Israel. Did Sharon just take over power? Nope, the Israeli's voted him into office..in a, can we say it together, DEMOCRACY. I am brainwashed huh? You are the one, my friend, with all the hate in you. My religion practices peace and love. Yours practices destruction, you have just stated it yourself. Now, is your Islam different than someone such as Shia, maybe. All I know is that I respect Shia, you on the other hand...it's up to you.

~Michael

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Stalin made an Autonomous Jewish Territory in Siberia, if we transfer there the israelis, the jews have their own place and the Mid-East has peace. This is good compromise, isn't it?

Who support this plan?

:)

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No,I dont want to go there...

Dont give me this old story to justify slaughtering humans.Thats bull...

Dont lie,you wouldnt have accepted it if it were turned tables,as you say...

Can I not have compassion for these people?

Where are you and where am I...wow

I am not discussing weither hitler was right or wrong in his treatment of the jews during WW2.I believe I never mentioned anything about this.

Neither can you reason by giving 'israel' a right to exist and keep existsing in the way they do bevause of how they were treated in the west over 50 years ago.

This is 2 separate issues...

Even if you read the Old Testament concerning there right to the land, they are not handling this the way the Bible says.
They have no biblical claim to this land.

I believe that Israel is the lesser of two evils

The lesser of 2 evils??

I dont really get what your second evil here is...

The palestinian rage were not created out of nowhere.That came along with the abuse of them by the 'israelis'.

Logically,if the Palestinians were not treated this way they would not have resorted to these kind of methods to free themselfs either...

Makes perfect sense...

killing Kurds isn't a violation...restricting womens rights isn't a violation?
You aint following...

Please,do you really believe anyone cares about this?

No bush or UN gives a damn about the rights of the Kurds or women in Iraq.

This is subjects that does not affect them in any way.Translated: They neither gain nor loose by saddam abusing kurds or women.Thereby,it is not an issue worth while..

The Kurds or the womens rights is not a reason for them wanting to bomb the Iraqi population.

Secratary General, Boutrous Botrous Gallee (I bet I spelled that wrong) set up guidelines on what a legitmate nation is. Guess what, Iraq doesn't fit. Funny, neither does Iran, or Saudi, mostly because of their gross treatment of women

So,the man put up some guidelines...

And?

Should people worship him now?

Is he the only person in the world who can decide what is a nation and what is not?

Is he the one who decides whos land owned for generations is legitimate or not?

I believe I told you in my last post that I,and Muslims,do not follow your kind of reasoning on this.It is not the wests wants and whims that decides what is basic human nature and human rights.The west makes changes to these categories as they see fit,and that is illogical,not to say totally unfair to alot of people in the non-western world.Since it,strange enough,always seem to go out on non-westerners...

Other Arab nations have absolutely nothing to do with this.This refering to weither some nations are legitimate or not in the western eyes,does not make any deifference to the 'state of israel'.Totally off the point...

I bet Israel would've been peaceful if they hadn't been under constant attack since their inception in the late 40's. They have been AT CONSTANT WAR WITH YOU GUYS!

What the hell do you expect??

Well,I know the answer to that one...

Stupid question,really...

You are obviously the kind of person that doesnt care that people have been living on a land for generations.And that these people killed and chased today havent done anything to deserve it.

I guess it doesnt politically benefit you.

So,good to see your definition of democracy.

I thought you meant the society was a democracy in their way of life.

Now,I can see that as long as their leader is choosen by the people,who are alwys right in their choice(?),everything thing he does is justifiable?No matter what horrors he inflict up on other people?

If thats your democracy,I'd rather live without it...

Anyone who can not recognize the pain of others when they have it right in their face,is brainwashed,yes...

How a human being can justify this kind of violations against others body and mind,is beyond me.

If your religion tells you that you can hunt innocent people and slay them for your political wants,then dont tell me your religion is peaceful.

Islam is not hateful,neither am I.But Islam teaches there is a limit to how much one has a right to involve one self in another persons life.

Islam does not give permission to kill or ruin peoples lifes because of greed and desires for worldy things.

Islam also gives a person who is being wronged a basic right to defend him self and what is his.

A little something I wonder about.Does your religion teach you to put certain peoples and nations rulings and jugdements above anything else?Does it allow you to place political benefits above the right of a human to be treated as such?

I do not hate Judaism,that is not my agenda in life.My issue and anger are towards the 'state of israel' and the way it has come to life.Which,is to any clear thinking person,totaly groce and disgusting.

I really dont care if you respect me or not.That is not one of my worries in life.

See,I do not need your respect,or any other 'israeli' or their supporters respect.

I will stand on the side of those violated and oppressed and hurt in a wrongful way.

No matter who likes me or not.

My life does not evolve around being liked,it is focused on supporting the right and resisting the wrong.Simple.

Even if it kills me one day,thats ok...

I'll be happy to know my life was given for supporting a right,instead of being wasted on a wrong.

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Morass,the battle is for many,if not for most,about the agreement made in -67.

The 'israeli' government agreed to this solution,but do not ,and I eblieve they never intended too,stand by this agreement.

Only obvious thing here is that they have no intention of sharing this land,they want it all.No matter what.

And they are fully supported in their violations agaisnt the agreements they have made in the past.

A good start for the developing of peace is for them to withdraw to the boarders of the agrement of -67,and from there it would be much easier to move on...

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Jeehad:

You are the one who brought up the regulations Israel is violating, so I just thought I'd bring up what your countries are violating. You brought the West into this, not me. And should we worship Boutrous Boutrous Gallee? Nope, but he was Middle Eastern, and he came up with these reasonalbe guidlines. And, if you knew anything about Christianity, it is a pacifistic religion, that does, however, support righteous indignation or self defense. You are close minded. There, I said it. You claim that the West changes what human rights mean, I say you're dellusional. Say whatever you want to keep that hatred fueled. I know we have equal rights for all citizens, wealthy, poor, male or female. We have an open economy. There is a reason that our trade hurts your countries so much. Do you think we care that we're not trading with you? Do you think it hurts us? Nope, doesn't even make us flinch. You have so much rage inside of you that logical thought flew out the window a long time ago. Israel is there to stay, Sadam will be ousted, we will win. Cry about it all you want, you can't do anything about it. The more you do, the more suffering you will bring. It's an endless cycle until you stop the hate, which seems will not happen. I will pray for you. I will pray that your heart will be lifted from the burden of raw hatred. Are you truely a joyful person? I mean, do you enjoy life and the world around you? I do. I love my life. With Christ, I have it all. I am truely joyful. I hope this upon you too. Also, read the book of Deuteronomy 20:1-20. It explains God's mandates concerning holy war and the land that God promised the Israeli's. (Know that this is the old covenant under Judaism and no longer applies to Christians, however it still does apply to the Jews.) He did promise them the land.

~Michael

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All I feel now,is sorry for you,my friend...

As it happens,I was christian for many years.I know some of what it means,christianity...

I am not closeminded,the problem is that you do not understand my points.

You did not get the message of my questions about what your religion teaches you.And you do obviously not understand much of your religions history.

I am not delusional when I say the west changes the concepts of human rights every other day.Someone with a little understanding of the worlds politicians game will quickly discover this fact.

You have equal rights for all citizens?

If you believe so,you are not living in the real world.

Not trading with us doesnt hurt you?

I assume you are refering to the ME now.

Again,someone with a little understanding of the international politics....

You dont seem to understand that politicians are not honest,good people who only wants the best for their people.Citizens of your countries are bricks in a game for them to get what they want.

They would sacrifise anyone if it helped their case...

I have so much rage inside of me...

When did you qualify to have an opinion on what is inside me?

After 3 posts you know what is inside my heart and how my mind works?

Dont think so... there is only one person in this world who knows how I 'work',and it aint you...

Take it easy with your assumptions on such things.It will not benefit you to jump to conlusions like that.

Thank you,for praying for me,but I doubt it will do any good...

Am I joyful?

Do I enjoy life?

Do I enjoy the world around me?

No,to all of the above...

If you have such a grip on reality,you will easily figure out why I answer no to these questions...

He did promise them the land...

Keep reading,my friend,keep reading...

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This is my first posting on this board and I have to start somewhere right?

I am glad to hear some voices of reason here and not everyone calling for "death" and killings. How can anyone think and act fairly when they are controlled by hatred and anger all the time? That cannot be done because those people are unreasonable. I know that from my own experience. We need to control our feelings and not let them control us.

May God give you all peace and joy today.

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Islam is not hateful,neither am I.But Islam teaches there is a limit to how much one has a right to involve one self in another persons life.

Islam does not give permission to kill or ruin peoples lifes because of greed and desires for worldy things.

Islam also gives a person who is being wronged a basic right to defend him self and what is his.

I really dont care if you respect me or not.That is not one of my worries in life.

See,I do not need your respect,or any other 'israeli' or their supporters respect.

I will stand on the side of those violated and oppressed and hurt in a wrongful way.

No matter who likes me or not.

Will you stand by the violated Isreali's?  Will you stand by the child that's murdered in a wrongful way?  

The one think I don't understand is this talk of Islam being peaceful and not hatred filled.  Look around this board my friend -- it's all about killing and violence.  You may word it differently, call it something else but in the end it's about destroying lives in the name of your religoun.

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You did not get the message of my questions about what your religion teaches you.And you do obviously not understand much of your religions history.

Now, here is a arguement I get a lot about Christianity, it's religious history. Hmmm...it's not too much of a good argument. Christianity, the religion has not changed since Christ was on the earth, the institution, however, has. There is a difference. The teachings of Christ, what he said, will forever remain the same. However, how people have corrupted that is a different story. My Christianity is a peaceful one. I hate NO ONE. Palastinian, Jordanian, Saudi Arabian, Lebanese, Israeli, Korean, Finnish etc....I hate no one. This is what Christ preached. Love your neighbor as yourself. This is what I live.

I am not delusional when I say the west changes the concepts of human rights every other day.Someone with a little understanding of the worlds politicians game will quickly discover this fact.

As I have stated in other threads, I am a well educated person who had completed half of my freshman year in college as a high school senior. I have taken American government classes and plan on taking world government classes in the coming semesters. However, you seem to think that all politicians and world leaders are corrupt and evil. I am more optimistic than you. I genuinely believe that many do care and want to help people. Hate me if you will, but I think George Bush is this type of guy. I think Benjamin Netenyahu is too. Arafat, Sadam, Kim Jong Dee, they are evil people, I honestly believe this.

You have equal rights for all citizens?

If you believe so,you are not living in the real world.

Not yet, but we are working on it. Segregation is still thick in this nation. Racism runs hard. However, I can tell you, it is the minority who hates, the majority who loves. And, compared to ANY MIDDLE EASTERN NATION, we are more forgiving, loving and tolerant. I mean, how many practicing Christians live in, say, Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia? How many churches are there? How many televangelists are there? There are 11 million+ reported Muslims in this nation. They have their own lobby in Washington D.C., and are gaining more understanding in this nation. They can practice their religion freely without our government coming in and ruining their worship and they can talk openly about their beliefs. I work with a Muslim woman, Fatima Mohammed, and she loves America. She lived in the Sudan for 19 years and in Yemen for 10 before moving here and says she will never leave. How many, still practicing, Christians can say that about the Middle East? None, because they are kicked out, killed, or have to live in secret for fear of being caught. You tell me which country has more civil rights. Also, you never answered me about the girls in Saudi who were killed in that fire because they weren't properly wrapped. Sounds pretty humane to me....

Not trading with us doesnt hurt you?

I assume you are refering to the ME now.

Again,someone with a little understanding of the international politics....

No, I wasn't talking about you personally. All I know is that we have no trade with Iraq and my finances are ok. My government and economy are still stable, the American dollar is still the most respected and the best. Can we say that about any country America has sanctioned off from? Look at Cuba, North Korea or Iraq. All three countries that are in a terrible way, why? Because of one reason, well two. Horrible leadership (Castro, Kim Jong Dee, Sadam) and because we have no trade with them. However, we, in America, hardly, if at all, notice. That is international trade with America. And about international policitcs. Look, a country barely 50 years old, roughly 1/50 the size of America, and in one of the most hostile places in the world, has survived to become one of the top powers of the world. I'm talking about Israel. And, do you want to know why? America, plain and simple. We have helped build that nation. Our trade can destroy or build a nation. That is international politics.

I have so much rage inside of me...

When did you qualify to have an opinion on what is inside me?

After 3 posts you know what is inside my heart and how my mind works?

Dont think so... there is only one person in this world who knows how I 'work',and it aint you...

Take it easy with your assumptions on such things.It will not benefit you to jump to conlusions like that.

No, I don't know you, but when I see someone whom wants to kill Israeli innocents, that person can't be happy. Do you know who the last person that wanted mass extermination of Jews was? I bet you do. He lost, and so will anyone else.

And finally, I have read the Bible. I have actually taken two semester of Religion classes in college, and I've only been there for two semesters. I took Biblical Literature and Theology and I took the Pentateuch. In Biblical Lit and Theo we studied God's promise to the Israelis and we studied it even more in the Pentateuch where he first made those promises. As I have stated before, the New Testament has made those promises null and void, but to a Jew who doesn't recognize the New Testament, they still have legtiamacy to the land. And, in Revelations, it says they will have it once again. They have it now, and I am confident they will never lose it.

~Michael

P.S. Jeehad, I do enjoy this debate. Know that I hold no grudges towards you and I find this healthy for both of us!

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You have a strange way of reading my words...

I believe I have expressed my self very clear,but it obviously didnt go thru...

Anyway...

What was the qeustion concerning the schoolgirls?

Hate you if I will?

Where did I say that I hate you?

I said I dont give a damn if you respect me or not.Makes no difference to me...

You have all this education,and you still believe Bush is a nice guy trying only to help...

One can question the integrety of the school you went too...

You believe the american government will tell you if they do something unacceptable?

Ofcourse they wont.And they certainly wouldnt put it in a textbook for students.

There are so many things in life you will never learn in school.

Yes,ofcourse I think politicians are corrupt and evil.Have you looked out the window lately?

All those involved in politics,honest people that really wants to serve the people,gets nowhere...

It is a fact,that a good heart never gets to influence the polticis that can make a change...

But you just keep believeing Bush is a good spirit...

After all,you are the one with the education here.doesnt matter what happens in the world.The classroom rules...

You were the one who said you had equal rights for all citizens,not me...

Now you go back on it.

When comparing the American society with a ME society,it must go wrong.

There is a difference between a peoples voluntary actions,and the actions of a people forced.

If one is to compare like that,the 2 parties must have the same basics...

ME does not mean 'me' as in my person,it means Middle East.A term commonly used in political articles,statements and written news.

You have no trade with Iraq.. right...

And with no one else,and you are doing just fine on your own.With no ties whatsoever to anyone in the ME... right...

Sure,I believe you.You are the one with the education here...

Yes,you helped build 'israel'..

Useless information.

You are comparing me to Hitler??

You have serious problems.

Not only can you not read properly,but you also keep insisting on knowing who I am and how I think.

This one doesnt even deserve more comments,since it was plain ignorant.

Jeehad, I do enjoy this debate. Know that I hold no grudges towards you and I find this healthy for both of us!

Exuse me???

You think I am some kind of clown who do this for my 'enjoyment'??

If you are to try and belittle me,find someone else who will take your [Edited Out]...

Cuz I damn well wont...

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You know what I love about you Jeehad? The fact that you haven't back up one thing you say. All you say is, "All politicians are corrupt." or "One can question the school you went too." Have you ever been to an American school? Haven't you heard of slavery? Or, haven't you heard of McCarthyism? Maybe the Tet Offensive. Did you ever wacht American news during the Vietnam war? The government wanted the war and the American people didn't. Now, what would've happened if that situation was played out in Iraq, Iran or Saudi? I would venture to say that it wouldn't have been peaceful.  In American schools, we learn the evils of our society. However, we learn upon those mistakes so that we may never make them again. I'm sorry if I misled you about equal rights. What I meant was to say that ours are leaps and bounds ahead of those in the Middle East. And, about trade, I was saying that I have a comfortable life without trade soley to Iraq. I wasn't implying anything relationship to any other Middle Eastern nation. We have a lot of trade with other nations. In fact, Saudi's biggest oil consumer is us. But you know what? We only get 7% of our oil from them. And, I bet if we stopped, it would hurt them more because I'm sure we are more than 7% of their buisness while the are only 7% of ours. We have made Iraq and Israel what they are because of our trade. Iraq became powerful in the 80's because of us and they aren't hardly anything now because of us. I was merely trying to get through to you our power in this world. However, you call it useless information. Once again, you don't back that up with anything, you're just spweing out your endless hateful bantor. And, if you don't have fun here, what is the point of being here? You're not changing anyone elses mind. Why do you want to complain to people who agree with you? I mean, aren't you just preaching to the choir? Don't you want a little opposition, it helps you grow and learn....learned that in my American school of no integrity. Oh yeah, that's right, you're in the Middle East, to do otherwise means punishment. Gotcha.

~Michael

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I am totally aware of USA's power in the world,and that aint my problem,it is the extreme abuse of it.And ignorant people who cant see the forest for only trees...

Like I said before,take a look out the window...

Yes,you have made Iraq an 'israel'...

You have given power to 2 of the worst killers in the world,and you seem to be proud of this.

That says alot...

You created saddam in the 80's,and now the Iraqi people are being killed for it.Some hypocracy... not to mention lack of human emotions...

Your version of 'human rights' is ready for the dumpster...

I call it useless information,since I already know.No need for you to tell me.

I am fully aware of who USA has supported,and who they support today.I am also aware of the consequenses of that support.

You are asking for ref's.I told you to look out the window.If the world isnt good enough as a reference to you,then I cant do anything for you.

You are not even willing to take a look at what is right in your face.What is the point then...

Btw,I am not in the ME,I am in europe,the slave of USA.

I've lived your 'freedom' and felt your respect for 'all' humans.Not to mention the 'equality' between genders and the 'acceptance' of other religions.

These societies stinks,to say it mildly.

But,ofcourse,I am being delusional.I havent got the education you have.I only have worthless experiences...

Luckely,I am moving out of here.I am looking forward to going to the ME,and being oppressed and abused,disrespected and violated.

I'll take the ME over the west any day...

I'll take an arab over a western any day.

You are pathetic,I'm sorry...

You think this is fun... you make it into a competition of words...

I have my limits to what I think is acceptable to play around with.

Peoples tragadies and the dead are not funny,and it deserves something else besides being ridiculed by someone like you,a supporter of 'israel', on a board like this...

Like I said,find someone else who are willing to take your [Edited Out]...

I wont be a part of your little show.I have my limits and I have my pride.

I guess our dear Brother Seiful Islam is right.

It is wasted time trying to appeal to the feelings of a stone.

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