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In the Name of God بسم الله

ONE ISLAM?

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

(salam)

There is only one ISLAM.

Naturally as we are in a time where there is shia (12, ismaili...), sunni (hanafi, shafi'i...), ahmadi, ... and all claim to have been the best perserved, doesn't anyone else think something has gone wrong? we have all taken pride with what we have, and refuse to acknowledge other people - and by doing this, we try to ignore the histroy of how Islam has reached this age.

Hadiths from the prophet, and also the Qur'an clearly show it was expected and inevitable and maybe even planned by God for the splitting of the faith, each rejoicing in what they have with them.

Kinda odd, as its very similar with the Jews, Christians and Muslims. Consider the Torah and Bible altered, the Quran pure and holy. The jews digressed and diverted, the chritians ditto, we have preserved the Quran, and still have it as an almighty blessing in its original form. But somehow we differ in other things, we differ in the colour of the cow, who made it, whose fault it was.

Islam is only one religion. The religion of god, of faith and good deeds. Of ascertained knowledge of the coming of the hour. It's still with us. But we differ in our history, and have come to be comvinced this changed our religions.

No one can deny the existence of these sects within Islam anymore, but obviously we can deny their followers from being muslim.

I think if we listen to the advice of the Quran, and restrain from taking too much pride in what is with our sect and bashing the other sects, then our eyes may inshallah be opened to bigger wisdoms, our hearts may turn to more pressing matters.

The child suffering in Palestine has lost his parents, and his family, he is a sunni, he will probably grow up and remain as one, thinking Omar was a truly righteous and blessed ruler - so it may be, and it may not - but is this going to prevent us from trying to help him? From caring for him? From fighting against the oprressers? and all without trying to even say a word that shia is the true Islam?

Vice versa for a shia suffering in Lebanon, Bahrain etc etc...

Shia as a sect was not created until after Ali (as) , at the time it was only political difference. Ali (as) allied with the initial Caliphs, if he wouldn't have, what was there to stop them atatacking ali just as aiysha and mu'awiya did? or Yazid did to hussain (as) ?

If we follow Ali, we will be inspired by his actions. He did not fight to be the first caliph, in the sight of his lord this would have been not a good act. He maintaned the homogeneity o Islamic politics for a while by seeing through politics to the true religion.

Why do we all obstinately persist in rejoiciung what is with us as a sect and look down upon "the others"? this is what is holding our true potential back, this is what may make the difference tto the coming of Al-Mahdi (as) , this is what is causing Zionist occupation, Iraqi Suffering, Afghani poverty... because I fear we are no more one religion. We are shia, sunii ... and Islam is amongst and between us but we are negligent....

(salam)

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Asalamu alaikum

My option is not there, the true islam is that which the prophet practiced, and his true sahaba and ahlulbayt regardless of the title you want to give it. The Islam which innovation was not introduced to it, so sticking to what the prophet EXACTLY did is GUIDANCE, following what sheikhs think is "good", that which was not practiced before, which they say "there is no harm in it", is MISGUIDANCE.

So, look around you and ask yourself, did the prophet do this? did he order us to do it? or was it the moulana, sheikh, imam who told us to do it, and told us there is blessings in it?

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The Shia-Sunni division is not only due to differences in understanding Sunnah. We also understand the Koran in different ways. We interpret the Koran with reports. We do not try to make the sense of any authentic report in accordance with the Koran. It is like putting the horses behind the cart. It is where all differences sprung from.

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I honestly think that most Muslims will be very surprised on the Day of Judgement.

PRECISELY. I am so glad you said this. You summed up most of what I was very badly trying to express in one sentence!! :lol:

My option is not there, the true islam is that which the prophet practiced, and his true sahaba and ahlulbayt regardless of the title you want to give it. The Islam which innovation was not introduced to it, so sticking to what the prophet EXACTLY did is GUIDANCE, following what sheikhs think is "good", that which was not practiced before, which they say "there is no harm in it", is MISGUIDANCE.

Ofcourse - the question of the poll is what DID the sahaba say? What is the innovated Islam? Where does the precise guidance of the prophet lie? Only God (SWT) knows - but where do you think?

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this poll is useless it wont do you any good the shia will vote shia and the sunni will vote sunni

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well look at the polls...you may be surprised.

Does this mean people either think

*one of shia/sunni is 100% right only and the other is wrong? (by voting either way)

OR

*Both are right but not 100%? (by voting an average)?

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The Shia-Sunni division is not only due to differences in understanding Sunnah. We also understand the Koran in different ways. We interpret the Koran with reports. We do not try to make the sense of any authentic report in accordance with the Koran. It is like putting the horses behind the cart. It is where all differences sprung from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right on Abeer.

And here is a story for you. I was discussing a Hadith in Bukhari with a sunni Bros. I told him I have reservation vis a vis this Hadith. To him, if it is in Bukhari, then it must be 7a7i7. I said but bro, this Hadith does not give a good picuture of the Prophet here. He wouldn't budge. I said bro: do you rather make the Prophet look bad then to discredit a Hadith in Bukahri. Guess what was his answer? without even thinking the bro said : Yes. But then when he saw the look on my face, he explained himself further by saying: if it does not make the Prophet look good, it would be because of the way we are interpeting the hadith.

So again we make the Quran fits the Hadith, instead of the other way around. Why is it that we don't the courage to say this hadith is wrong, garbage. Why is it that we can't question anything? Can you as a sunni say Abu Baker was wrong about something ? Can you as a shia, dare to say it is Haram to say Ashadu anna Alian waliyual Allah in the Athan?

Lets face it Abeer, there is so much rust on our collective brian. We have become like programmed robotic zombies.

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There are various reason for such hightened and hot debate on Ahadeeth.

There is the Shia Sunni divide in which Ahadeeth are tools of analyzing personalities and discediting sources that contains things not matching each sides ideology.

Then Muslims in west face great challenges to practice religion as well as being accepted in West.This has lead to people who want to redifine the Islamic way of life.For them Ahadeeth are hinderance to new interpretations of Islam,they too intend to analyze Ahadeeth to create mistrust.

If the Ahadeeth are used for sole purpose of jurispudence,they are greatest asset.

Then another thing is that science of Rijaal has more or less reached a dead end.The scholars of today have to rely on whatever was written by ulema of their own time.There is no way of doing a new research.

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Guest abaleada

(bisillah)

(salam)

Asda, Prophet Muhammad predicted the division of Islam into sects. This is the way that it is. The only thing that we can hope for is that our striving to be on the right path is a fruitful striving. It is very good to encourage people to come to the right path, whichever one you truly feel that it is. Hwoever, it is only a senseless dream to call all Muslims to merge as one sect. Thsoe who do so are trying to defy reality.

Our time is better spent some other way.

Edited by abaleada
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There is a famous saying of Ameer al Momineen(as) where he says that when 2 parties are in conflict either one is right or the other or both are wrong , both sunni and shia cannot be wrong as the other sects are all wackos ie claiming to be prophets, making Ali(as) god, Hating ahlul bayt(as) so either sunnis are right or shias and the prophet (sW) said that Ali is with the truth and truth is with ali , and we the shias of Imam Ali(as) are without any doubt with the truth.

The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise

sunni ref: Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p655

and also Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v12, p289 + many more but these are the major authentic and reliable sunni books.

Those who picked truth is with both dont know what truth is and 2 opposing parties cannot have one truth its a logical contradiction

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There is a very Interesting discussion between a Shia and a Sunni Scholar relating to this topic..somewhat. Read this beautiful dialogue

Shia Scholar : How, therefore, can such scholars make do with restricting themselves to one of these madhhabs and not examine the truth of the other madhhabs, nay, not even look at the works of its writers, nor even know their names? The Truth may not lie with all of these groups, and if we say that it is with one of them, we are preferring one group over the others without proof."

Sunni Scholar Master Abu al-Hasan [al-Bakri] answered him, "As for the question of the common people, we beg the forgiveness of God that He not hold their shortcomings against them. As for the scholars, it is enough that they outwardly adhere to the truth."

Shia Scholar Our Master [al-Shahid al-Thani] asked him, "How can that be enough for them, given what has been said of their neglect of examination and rigorous proof?"

Sunni Scholar He answered, "Oh Master, the answer to your question is simple. An example of this is someone who is born circumcised naturally. This circumcision spares him from having to undergo the circumcision required by religious law."

Shia Scholar, Our Master said, "This naturally circumcised man does not lose the obligation until he knows that his circumcision is itself the circumcision required by law, so that he might be asked and interrogated by men of experience and those who deal with this matter as to whether this naturally present state is sufficient to fulfill the obligation legally or not. But if he, on his own, makes do with what he has found, that is not legally sufficient to relieve him of the obligation."

Sunni Scholar [Al-Bakri] replied, "Oh Master, this is not the first bottle to be broken in Islam."

references Ali al-'Amili, al-Durr al-manthur, 2: 164-65.

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Guest abaleada

(bismillah)

(salam)

Zareen, sister, do you have the publication information for that text? (editor/translator, year & city of publication, etc.)

Regarding the issue of Sunni `ulama investigating other madhahib outside of their own, it should be known that many Sunni `ulama actually do have experience learning about the three madhahib outside of their own. Obviously, only the exceptional ones would be masters of any of the Islamic sciences of the other madhahib.

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Sis abbbie

I have a note book where I have a collections of some stuff. The original references is in Ali al-'Amili, al-Durr al-manthur, 2: 164-65. I dont have any publiications info but I believe it is refering to a copy in posession of a ulama.

Another thing, does anyone know what this means??

Sunni Scholar [Al-Bakri] replied, "Oh Master, this is not the first bottle to be broken in Islam."

:huh: bottle?? :unsure:

Edited by Zareen
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(bismillah)

(salam)

Anyone who has time and is interested.. I kinda stumbled upon a website where two scholars from the sunni and the shia faith have debated for I THINK 8 years if I understand correctly.. (they debated thru letters so the number of years make sense)... there are 112 letters in total and the debate started in 1900 between Salim Al-Bishri.. a sunni scholar from the Al-azhar institute in Egypt and Sharafuddin Al­Musawi.. a shia scholar from Syria.. in the end.. letter 111.. Salim Al-Bishri claimed that "now I have found it to be a lantern that dispels the darkness, and I am leaving you victorious, successful;" the link is as follows

http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/0.htm

I can go on and on about shia and sunni sects with the little knowledge that I have and be stubborn and say that shia are right and sunnis are wrong.. but I won't.. instead.. I recommend that you read this (I am on letter 26) and PROVE TO YOURSELF that the sect you are in is correct.. because the Prophet (SAW) said.. only one of the 73 sects will go to heaven. Believing in Allah and the Holy Quran and the Prophets (as) makes us muslims however.. most of the sects do that.. and we could be practicing our sect perfectly but still not guarenteed heaven.. quite frankly... thats disturbing.. don't take my work for it.. or Salim Bishiri's.. struggle on your own so that you can say that it is only because of your own actions or INACTIONS you stand where you do.

Wassalaam

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Guest abaleada

(bismillah)

(salam)

Is Al Murajat even a factual discussion that actually took place?

Zareen, I was lost back at the question of why Sunni scholars "make do with restricting themselves to one of these madhhabs and not examine the truth of the other madhhabs" or even "look at the works of its writers, nor even know their names" and the response that the Sunni offered: "As for the scholars, it is enough that they outwardly adhere to the truth." As I already stated, the Sunni `ulama usually do have familiarity with other madhahib of Sunni Islam. Furthermore, I know for a fact that the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama`ah require much more of their `ulama than an outward adherance to the truth.

The reason that I asked for the publication information is because I waned to verify that this discussion took place.

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The reason that I asked for the publication information is because I waned to verify that this discussion took place.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I don't know if its a true debate or a fabrication by shia... but can't everything be a fabrication now if you are truly a very clever person.. I didn't see anything that supports the idea that this is a fabrication and I have seen a mention to these murajaats in several websites.. anyho.. I guess people would just have to read it.. and if it is a fabrication.. then my sunni brethren will be able to extract a fault in Salim Bishri's questions (I think he was from the Sha3fi sect cuz he lived in Egypt so maybe there are some differences after all)

Wassalaam

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