Fadak

Sunni Student · January 17, 2003

Salam to all,

Recently I was having discussion with my shia classmate on the issue of Fadak. Now there is one question which he had asked me, but that question looked rather silly to me but still i want to ask u (esp shias) what do u say abt this question and can u give ur own views.

The question is that My friend asked that, hazrat abu bakr (ra) told that Holy Prophet pbuh said no prophet leaves inheritance for his family but gives his property and land as a charity. But if we do belive this ahadith, then as we already know that Allah had made Hazrat Adam (as) a prophet and a khalifa on earth, and as we all know that we all are sons and daughters of Hazrat Adam (as) , so why do we inherit land? if this ahadith is correct, bcz we all are children of a prophet! If this ahadith was correct then we (whether Muslims, chritians, jews, etc) would not inherit this land (earth), Hazrat Adam (as) would have given this land either to jinns or aliens as charity!!!

I just want ur views concerning his question, i have also posted this question on other sunni site to have their answers.

B-N · January 18, 2003

salam..

I dont y to get in to the matter of fadak with so many arguments .it was a gift to Fatima Zahra (as), thats it !

**baqar** · January 18, 2003

Using the principles of logic for the hadith quoted by Abu Bakr, the following possibilities are there:

(1) Abu Bakr was correct that the Holy Prophet (sa) had said that the legacy of prophets cannot pass on to their families, and meant it in the light that Abu BAkr presented it, OR

(2) While the Holy Prophet (saw) had said something to that effect, the reference was to something else, and he did not mean it the way Abu Bakr took it, OR

(3) Abu Bakr had a lapse of memory, OR

(4) Abu Bakr fabricated the hadith.

Whatever the case, when the Holy Prophet's daughter presented a counter argument why Prophet Sulaiman inherited his father Prophet Daud's kingdom, he should have considered her words as a severe blow to his case.

Also, considering that the Holy Prophet (saw) had said that she was the princess of the women of Paradise, a hadith accepted to all Muslims, he should again have thought how weak his case was, and that he might have misunderstood the hadith he quoted, and relented.

Circumstantial evidence therefore points heavily to Abu Bakr clearly wanting to weaken the position of the Holy Prophet's daughter and to bring her harm.

hidrali · January 18, 2003

Shaikh Muhammad el-Khidhri Buck, professor of Islamic History, Egyptian University, Cairo, says in his book, Noor-ulYaqeen fi Seeret Sayyed al-Mursaleen (1953):

He (Muhammad ibn Abdullah) was born in the house of his uncle, Abu Talib, in the "quarter" of Banu Hashim in Makkah, on the 12th of Rabi al-Awal of the Year of the Elephant, a date that corresponds to June 8, 570. His midwife was the mother of Abdur Rahman ibn Auf. His mother, Amina, sent the tidings of the auspicious birth to his grandfather, Abdul Muttalib, who came, took him in his arms, and gave him the name Muhammad.

Muhammad's share in his patrimony was one maid servant, Umm Ayman; five camels and ten sheep. This is proof that prophets can inherit property, and if they can inherit property from their parents, they can also bequeath property to their own children. Being a prophet does not disqualify them from receiving their own patrimony nor does it disqualify their children from receiving theirs. This statement may appear to be a non-sequitur in this context but it is not. Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, may God bless him and his Ahlul-Bait, had bestowed upon his daughter, Fatima, as a gift, the estate of Fadak. But when he died, Abu Bakr, the khalifa, and Umar, his adviser, seized the estate on the plea that prophets do not bequeath any property to their own children, and whatever wealth they possess, belongs, after their death, not to their children, but to their umma (the people). It is a grim penalty that one has to pay in Islam for being the son or daughter of its Prophet. Everyone else in the umma has the right to inherit the wealth and property of one's father but not the daughter of Muhammad, the Messenger of God!

Sunni Student · January 20, 2003

Salam to all of u,

Well i think u couldn't understand what i want to know. Ok i will make it much simple.

I just want to know what do shias think regarding these questions!

Q1. Allah (SWT) made Hazrat Adam (as) as Khalifa on earth, so does that means that land (Europe, Asia, Africa, etc) was Hazrat Adam (as) property?

Q2. When Hazrat Adam (as) left this world then who inherited Hazrat Adam (as) property (land) ?

Waiting for postive reply.

Sunain · January 20, 2003

(salam)

use ur brain kid,,,,,,all his kids inherited his property ,,,all the humans,,,we're on EARTH ,,wake up,.,,,

he didnt take anythin away from us,,

**baqar** · January 20, 2003

Q1) His was the only human family on earth, he could lay claim on whatever he wanted. He must have acquired something in order to live, but history has not recorded what he did or did not acquire.

Q2) Whatever property he had must have been passed on to his children. There is nothing to assume otherwise.

Sunni Student · January 20, 2003

salam to all of u,

I can't understand why u ppl are being rude.

I was convinced by the answer given by my shia friend that the hadith said by Hazrat abu bakr (ra) was not correct bcz if it was correct then why did the Children of Hazrat Adam (as) inherit him (as).

But i don't know what u ppl are thinking.... as my intentions are not negitive, i am really impressed by my friend answer, i just wanted to know ur views about it.

I am trying to study more abt shiasm, but i think u ppl don't understand my intentions.

bye

Sunain · January 20, 2003

(salam)

oh sorry bro,,,,,,,,REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYY

YYYYYYYY SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYyyyy

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i never meant to doubt ur intentions but,,,i thought u again raised the question WHY..,,anyways i',m sorry,,,,i hope u accept my apology,,,,,,,,,,wat i wanna say

is ,,if u want to seek the true path and its on the other side with burning coal on the ground in the middle,,i would gladly lie on it so u can cross over,,,,so don think i was trying to downplay u,,,,,,

Edited January 20, 2003 by Sunain

akhbari · January 20, 2003

salam

my friend sunni student

a little piece of advise. learn more about shiism the way the kalima started - about Allah, then rasool(sa) and then wilayat.

somehow starting to learn about shiism from fadaq does not seem right.

akhbari

**baqar** · January 20, 2003

Brother Sunni Student

(salam)

Did I give you a satisfactory reply, or do you have more questions ?

Was Salam

**baqar** · January 20, 2003

Brother Akhbari

(salam)

I think we should try to satisfy the curiosity of others, to their satisfaction.

Was salam

Gypsy · January 21, 2003

The question is that My friend asked that, hazrat abu bakr (ra) told that Holy Prophet pbuh said no prophet leaves inheritance for his family but gives his property and land as a charity.

This argument has already been disapproved by Sayyida Fatima Az Zahra(sa). She asked Abu Bakar "Did you receive some revelations(wahi) from God that my father is not aware off?"

And then She recited the Verse where "Sulaiman inherited Dawud ..."

Furthermore She provided 2 witnesses that testified Prophet bestow the Land Fadak to her but Abu Bakar didn’t accept it.

But if we do belive this ahadith, then as we already know that Allah had made Hazrat Adam (as) a prophet and a khalifa on earth, and as we all know that we all are sons and daughters of Hazrat Adam (as) , so why do we inherit land?

Because there are certain rights which is passed to us. If a father died, he leaves behind his widow and small children. Who will take care of his wife and children if they do not inherit?? Allah swt is Merciful and it is part of his mercy that there is inheritance.

if this ahadith is correct, bcz we all are children of a prophet! If this ahadith was correct then we (whether Muslims, chritians, jews, etc) would not inherit this land (earth), Hazrat Adam (as) would have given this land either to jinns or aliens as charity!!!

I disagree. When you have no system of inheritance the only people who will inherit your wealth will be usurper not Jinni or aliens. A good example is when Abu Bakar and Umar lied and nationalize Fadak, they took somebody else wealth and use that for their own agenda. They support and strengthen their position while weakening the position of Ahlul Bayt.

**Muhammed Ali** · January 21, 2003

I can't understand why u ppl are being rude.

in every group some people will be rude. you were unlucky.

sunnism · April 5

On 1/18/2003 at 2:12 AM, Sunni Student said:

Salam to all,

Recently I was having discussion with my shia classmate on the issue of Fadak. Now there is one question which he had asked me, but that question looked rather silly to me but still i want to ask u (esp shias) what do u say abt this question and can u give ur own views.

The question is that My friend asked that, hazrat abu bakr (رضي الله عنه) told that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said no prophet leaves inheritance for his family but gives his property and land as a charity. But if we do belive this ahadith, then as we already know that Allah had made Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) a prophet and a khalifa on earth, and as we all know that we all are sons and daughters of Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) , so why do we inherit land? if this ahadith is correct, bcz we all are children of a prophet! If this ahadith was correct then we (whether Muslims, chritians, jews, etc) would not inherit this land (earth), Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) would have given this land either to jinns or aliens as charity!!!

I just want ur views concerning his question, i have also posted this question on other sunni site to have their answers.

Simple. Adam (عليه السلام) does not own every single land on earth. His descendants took lands through other means and that's how everyone inherited.

sunnism · April 5

On 1/18/2003 at 4:29 PM, baqar said:

Abu Bakr was correct that the Holy Prophet (sa) had said that the legacy of prophets cannot pass on to their families, and meant it in the light that Abu BAkr presented it, OR

This is true.

On 1/18/2003 at 4:29 PM, baqar said:

While the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had said something to that effect, the reference was to something else, and he did not mean it the way Abu Bakr took it, OR

There is no proof of this.

On 1/18/2003 at 4:29 PM, baqar said:

Abu Bakr had a lapse of memory, OR

(4) Abu Bakr fabricated the hadith.

Not possible. Similar hadith is present in shia corpus with authentic chain.

On 1/18/2003 at 4:29 PM, baqar said:

Whatever the case, when the Holy Prophet's daughter presented a counter argument why Prophet Sulaiman inherited his father Prophet Daud's kingdom, he should have considered her words as a severe blow to his case.

There is no proof of this.

On 1/18/2003 at 4:29 PM, baqar said:

Also, considering that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had said that she was the princess of the women of Paradise, a hadith accepted to all Muslims, he should again have thought how weak his case was, and that he might have misunderstood the hadith he quoted, and relented

So? Ali also had argument with fatima once.

Ashvazdanghe · April 6

8 hours ago, sunnism said:

Ali also had argument with fatima once.

Salam source of this false report is cursed Marwan ibn Hakam (la) who has been most saunch enemy of both of Amir alMuminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima which consider everything which matchs with your mindset as a proof while it has no basis but you reject every authentic fact just because doesn't match with your biased mindset .

8 hours ago, sunnism said:

Not possible. Similar hadith is present in shia corpus with authentic chain.

Lady Fatima has refuted false claim of Abubakr in that shia corpus authentic chain which mentioning false words of Abubakr in shia corpus is not equal to confirming his false wordss & his fabrication.

Qadri_01 · April 6

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam source of this false report is cursed Marwan ibn Hakam (la) who has been most saunch enemy of both of Amir alMuminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima which consider everything which matchs with your mindset as a proof while it has no basis but you reject every authentic fact just because doesn't match with your biased mindse

Prove it

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Lady Fatima has refuted false claim of Abubakr in that shia corpus authentic chain which mentioning false words of Abubakr in shia corpus is not equal to confirming his false wordss & his fabrication.

That's a shia hadith. We are not obliged to believe in shia reports

sunnism · April 6

16 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam source of this false report is cursed Marwan ibn Hakam (la) who has been most saunch enemy of both of Amir alMuminin Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima which consider everything which matchs with your mindset as a proof while it has no basis but you reject every authentic fact just because doesn't match with your biased mindset

No bro. The source is tahdheeb ul ahkam.

16 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Lady Fatima has refuted false claim of Abubakr in that shia corpus authentic chain which mentioning false words of Abubakr in shia corpus is not equal to confirming his false wordss & his fabrication.

It is mentioned in shia corpus. Shia corpus is not hujjah for the sunnis

علوي · April 7

@sunnism @Qadri_01

Let's read the hadith together. I'll take it word for word from Sahih al-Bukhari. (Link here) Let's break it down part by part.

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، حَدَّثَنَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ صَالِحٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي عُرْوَةُ بْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ، أَنَّ عَائِشَةَ أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ أَخْبَرَتْهُ أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ ـ عَلَيْهَا السَّلاَمُ ـ ابْنَةَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم سَأَلَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقَ بَعْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنْ يَقْسِمَ لَهَا مِيرَاثَهَا، مَا تَرَكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ‏.‏ فَقَالَ لَهَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ لاَ نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated `Aisha (mother of the believers):
After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)."

We know that this hadith is fabricated, because it contradicts the Quran. Abu Bakr claims that the Prophet said "لاَ نُورَثُ" (Our property will not be inherited). The Quran clearly says:

وَوَرِثَ سُلَيْمَانُ دَاوُودَ
Solomon inherited from David. [27:16]

Notice the words.

Abu Bakr says "لاَ نُورَثُ".

Allah says "وَوَرِثَ".

Read that again. Seems like a pretty damn clear contradiction to me.

Let's continue.

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فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ بِنْتُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَهَجَرَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ، فَلَمْ تَزَلْ مُهَاجِرَتَهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ‏.‏
Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ).

Wait. What does the hadith in SAHIH AL-BUKHARI say? "فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ" - FATIMA GOT ANGRY.

"فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ بِنْتُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ" - FATIMA, DAUGHTER OF THE APOSTLE OF ALLAH, GOT ANGRY.

So... what did the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) say about someone who makes Fatima angry?

Quote

رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي، فَمَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي
"Fatima is a part of me, and whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."
Sahih al-Bukhari 3767
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3767

Again notice the words:

"فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ" (FATIMA GOT ANGRY)

and

"مَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي" (WHOEVER MAKES HER ANGRY, MAKES ME ANGRY)

So Abu Bakr made the Prophet of Allah angry.

ABU BAKR MADE THE PROPHET OF ALLAH ANGRY

ABU

BAKR

MADE

THE

PROPHET

OF

ALLAH

ANGRY

And I think you can agree that, automatically, the anger of the Prophet of Allah is the anger (غَضَبِ) of Allah Himself, because the Prophet does not speak anything except revelation, as Allah says in Surat al-Najm (53:1-4). So Abu Bakr made Allah Himself angry. What happens to people with whom Allah is angry?

وَمَنْ يَحْلِلْ عَلَيْهِ غَضَبِي فَقَدْ هَوَىٰ
and he on whom My wrath (غَضَبِ) descends certainly perishes. [20:81]

Sorry, but my master isn't the one who angered Allah by angered Fatima. My master is the one who married Fatima.

The rest of the hadith is irrelevant, but I'll include it lest you say I accepted part and ignored part.

Quote

قَالَتْ وَكَانَتْ فَاطِمَةُ تَسْأَلُ أَبَا بَكْرٍ نَصِيبَهَا مِمَّا تَرَكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم مِنْ خَيْبَرَ وَفَدَكٍ وَصَدَقَتِهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ، فَأَبَى أَبُو بَكْرٍ عَلَيْهَا ذَلِكَ، وَقَالَ لَسْتُ تَارِكًا شَيْئًا كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَعْمَلُ بِهِ إِلاَّ عَمِلْتُ بِهِ، فَإِنِّي أَخْشَى إِنْ تَرَكْتُ شَيْئًا مِنْ أَمْرِهِ أَنْ أَزِيغَ‏.‏ فَأَمَّا صَدَقَتُهُ بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَدَفَعَهَا عُمَرُ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ وَعَبَّاسٍ، فَأَمَّا خَيْبَرُ وَفَدَكٌ فَأَمْسَكَهَا عُمَرُ وَقَالَ هُمَا صَدَقَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم كَانَتَا لِحُقُوقِهِ الَّتِي تَعْرُوهُ وَنَوَائِبِهِ، وَأَمْرُهُمَا إِلَى مَنْ وَلِيَ الأَمْرَ‏.‏
She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, "I will not leave anything Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." (Later on) `Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to `Ali and `Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler."
Sahih al-Bukhari 3092, 3093
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3092

Fatima continued asking Abu Bakr for her land for 6 months, until she died. She died angry with him and asking for her right. Abu Bakr insisted that prophets don't leave behind inheritance, but Allah had said "Solomon inherited from David" [27:16] clearly in Surah al-Naml. Omar continued to withhold Fadak from its rightful owners, meaning he is also worthy of the anger of Fatima, the anger of the Prophet, and the anger of Allah.

While being mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari, this hadith is also mentioned in Musnad Ahmad:

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي، عَنْ صَالِحٍ، قَالَ ابْنُ شِهَابٍ أَخْبَرَنِي عُرْوَةُ بْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ، أَنَّ عَائِشَةَ، رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا زَوْجَ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَخْبَرَتْهُ أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ بِنْتَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سَأَلَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ بَعْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْ يَقْسِمَ لَهَا مِيرَاثَهَا مِمَّا تَرَكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ فَقَالَ لَهَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ لَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَيْهَا السَّلَام فَهَجَرَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ فَلَمْ تَزَلْ مُهَاجِرَتَهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ قَالَ وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ قَالَ وَكَانَتْ فَاطِمَةُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا تَسْأَلُ أَبَا بَكْرٍ نَصِيبَهَا مِمَّا تَرَكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مِنْ خَيْبَرَ وَفَدَكَ وَصَدَقَتِهِ بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَأَبَى أَبُو بَكْرٍ عَلَيْهَا ذَلِكَ وَقَالَ لَسْتُ تَارِكًا شَيْئًا كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَعْمَلُ بِهِ إِلَّا عَمِلْتُ بِهِ وَإِنِّي أَخْشَى إِنْ تَرَكْتُ شَيْئًا مِنْ أَمْرِهِ أَنْ أَزِيغَ فَأَمَّا صَدَقَتُهُ بِالْمَدِينَةِ فَدَفَعَهَا عُمَرُ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ وَعَبَّاسٍ فَغَلَبَهُ عَلَيْهَا عَلِيٌّ وَأَمَّا خَيْبَرُ وَفَدَكُ فَأَمْسَكَهُمَا عُمَرُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ وَقَالَ هُمَا صَدَقَةُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ كَانَتَا لِحُقُوقِهِ الَّتِي تَعْرُوهُ وَنَوَائِبِهِ وَأَمْرُهُمَا إِلَى مَنْ وَلِيَ الْأَمْرَ قَالَ فَهُمَا عَلَى ذَلِكَ الْيَوْمَ‏.‏
Urwah bin az-Zubair narrated that 'A'ishah, the wife of the Prophet (ﷺ) told him that Fatimah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), asked Abu Bakr, after the death of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), to give her her share of inheritance from that which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had left behind, of the fai' that Allah had bestowed upon him. Abu Bakr said to her: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Our (Prophets') property is not to be inherited and whatever we leave behind is charity.` Fatimah got angry and kept away from Abu Bakr and she continued to do so until she died. Fatimah lived for six months after the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), and she used to ask Abu Bakr for her share of that which the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) had left behind of Khaibar and Fadak, and his charitable endowments in Madinah, but Abu Bakr refused to give her that. He said: I will not stop doing something that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to do; rather I will continue to do it. I am afraid that if I give up something that he did, I will go astray. As for his charitable endowment in Madinah, 'Umar gave it to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but ‘Ali took most of it. As for Khaibar and Fadak, 'Umar kept them and said: They are the charitable endowment of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and were spent on his responsibilities and on emergencies. They were to be cared for by whoever became caliph, and this remains the case until today.
Musnad Ahmad 25
https://sunnah.com/ahmad:25

Ashvazdanghe · April 7

On 4/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Qadri_01 said:

Prove it

This narration is total fabrication by people likewise Miswar bin Makhramah who has narrated such fabrications from enemies of prophet Muhammad (pbu) & amir al muminin imam Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) likewise cursed Mughair ibn Shu'ba & cursed Mrawan ibn Hakam & etc

Narrated `Urwa bin Az-Zubair:

That he heard Marwan bin Al-Hakam and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama relating one of the events that happened to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in the `Umra of Al-Hudaibiya.......https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4180

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama and Marwan:

https://sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/bh3/bh3_890.htm

13 hours ago, sunnism said:

o bro. The source is tahdheeb ul ahkam.

Source is from enemies of prophet Muhammad (pbu) & amir al muminin imam Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) in so called sunni sahih books likewise sunan of ibn Majah & Sahih bukhari which although Tahdhib al-ahkam is one of four shia books but it's has weak & contradictory narrations due to narrating from sunni sources without mentioning their chains of narrators.

Tahdhib al-ahkam

Some Akhbari scholars made an appeal to a remark by al-Shaykh al-Tusi in his al-'Udda fi usul al-fiqh^[23] and held that all hadiths in Tahdhib (as well as in the rest of the Four Books) are reliable.^[24] However, since al-Shaykh al-Tusi has made it explicit that some contradictory hadiths in his book are unreliable, the view was rejected by other scholars.^[25]

Quote

It has also cited some hadiths from Sunni sources without mentioning their chains of narrators.^[9]

Reasons for the Weakness of Hadiths in Tahdhib al-ahkam

The contradiction of a hadith with the apparent meaning of the Holy Qur'an and al-khabar al-mutawatir.

The consensus of Imamiyya on refusing to act upon the hadith.

The contradiction of a hadith narrated by one or few people with one narrated by a greater number of people.

The contradiction of a hadith with an essential principle of Islam and Imams (a).

The tension in a hadith, that is, where the narrator has narrated the hadith in two or more different ways.

The contradiction between what a person narrates with what others narrate.

Weak Hadiths in Tahdhib al-Ahkam

Mudmar (in which a hadith involves a pronoun which is not obvious whether it refers to an Infallible or not)

Mawquf (a hadith that stops at a companion of Imam (a) where it is not obvious whether it is his own view or is intended to be that of Imam (a)'s)

Mursal (a hadith part of whose chain of narrators is missing)

A hadith whose narrator is not exactly known

Shadh hadith (a hadith saying something odd or uncommon)

A hadith with unreliable narrators or one whose narrator is a ghali (a person who exaggerates the virtues of Imams (a)), or Sunni or Zaydi.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Tahdhib_al-ahkam_(book)

'Ali bin Husain said that Miswar bin Makhramah told him that:

Quote

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْيَمَانِ، أَنْبَأَنَا شُعَيْبٌ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، أَخْبَرَنِي عَلِيُّ بْنُ الْحُسَيْنِ، أَنَّ الْمِسْوَرَ بْنَ مَخْرَمَةَ، أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ خَطَبَ بِنْتَ أَبِي جَهْلٍ وَعِنْدَهُ فَاطِمَةُ بِنْتُ النَّبِيِّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَلَمَّا سَمِعَتْ بِذَلِكَ، فَاطِمَةُ أَتَتِ النَّبِيَّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَقَالَتْ إِنَّ قَوْمَكَ يَتَحَدَّثُونَ أَنَّكَ لاَ تَغْضَبُ لِبَنَاتِكَ وَهَذَا عَلِيٌّ نَاكِحًا ابْنَةَ أَبِي جَهْلٍ ‏.‏ قَالَ الْمِسْوَرُ فَقَامَ النَّبِيُّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فَسَمِعْتُهُ حِينَ تَشَهَّدَ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏ "‏ أَمَّا بَعْدُ فَإِنِّي قَدْ أَنْكَحْتُ أَبَا الْعَاصِ بْنَ الرَّبِيعِ فَحَدَّثَنِي فَصَدَقَنِي وَإِنَّ فَاطِمَةَ بِنْتَ مُحَمَّدٍ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي وَأَنَا أَكْرَهُ أَنْ تَفْتِنُوهَا وَإِنَّهَا وَاللَّهِ لاَ تَجْتَمِعُ بِنْتُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ وَبِنْتُ عَدُوِّ اللَّهِ عِنْدَ رَجُلٍ وَاحِدٍ أَبَدًا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَنَزَلَ عَلِيٌّ عَنِ الْخِطْبَةِ ‏.‏

'Ali bin Husain said that Miswar bin Makhramah told him that: 'Ali bin Abu Talib proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahl, when he was married to Fatimah the daughter of the Prophet. When Fatimah heard of that she went to the Prophet, and said: "Your people are saying that you do not feel angry for your daughters. This 'Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl." Miswar said: "The Prophet stood up, and I heard him when he bore witness (i.e., said the Shahadah), then he said: 'I married my daughter (Zainab) to Abul-As bin Rabi', and he spoke to me and was speaking the truth. Fatimah bint Muhammad is a part of me, and I hate to see her faced with troubles. By Allah, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah and the daughter of the enemy of Allah will never be joined together in marriage to one man." He said: So, 'Ali abandoned the marriage proposal.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1999

Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)

Reference : Sunan Ibn Majah 1999

In-book reference : Book 9, Hadith 155

English translation : Vol. 3, Book 9, Hadith 1999

https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:1999

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْوَلِيدِ، حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ عُيَيْنَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ دِينَارٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي مُلَيْكَةَ، عَنِ الْمِسْوَرِ بْنِ مَخْرَمَةَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ فَاطِمَةُ بَضْعَةٌ مِنِّي، فَمَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي ‏"‏‏.‏

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Fatima is a part of me, and whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sahih al-Bukhari 3767
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3767

3.The enemies of the Amir of the Faithful (peace be upon him) spread rumors that he proposed to the daughter of Abu Jahl. This news reached Fatima Zahra (peace be upon her) and finally the Messenger of Allah also became aware of the incident. He stood on the pulpit and said this sentence about Fatima. According to Sunni scholars, the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was addressed Hazrat Ali (peace be upon him), who provided the introduction to this statement with his proposal.

But Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him) in a detailed narration found in Shia sources, considers the story of the proposal of Abu Jahl's daughter to be fake and slandered by his[/her] enemies; But it is true that the Messenger of Allah said such a word in the presence of the fakers of this matter; In other words, in fact, the Holy Prophet is warning the fakers of the story that you don't disturb Fatima by creating these legends.

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/حدیث_فاطمة_بضعة_منی

13 hours ago, sunnism said:

It is mentioned in shia corpus. Shia corpus is not hujjah for the sunnis

On 4/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Qadri_01 said:

That's a shia hadith. We are not obliged to believe in shia reports

lol you have tried to defeat shias from their sources while you don't believe to authenticity of shia sources anyway we can expose your fabrication & falsehood so then we can prove our superiority & being right even from your sources while you can't do it ; when you face refutation by shias so then you say that shia sources are not Hujjah for you & you are not obliged to believe to shia sources :hahaha:

Edited April 7 by Ashvazdanghe

Ashvazdanghe · April 7

On 4/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Qadri_01 said:

Prove it

13 hours ago, sunnism said:

It is mentioned in shia corpus. Shia corpus is not hujjah for the sunnis

Abu Bakr Versus Fatima az-Zahra (sa)

Yet, Fadak became an arena for political games when Abu Bakr refused to transfer it to Fatima az-Zahra (sa). It is appropriate here to speak about Fadak before clarifying the corresponding events which occurred in its regard:

Fadak was a village located at a two-day walking distance from Medina. Apparently, it was inhabited by Jews who refused to submit to Islam at the beginning, but when the later realized the might of the Muslims, especially after they, led by ‘Ali Ibn Abu Talib (عليه السلام) conquered Khaibar, the Jews decided to yield to the Messenger of Allah (S) without fighting. So, he took possession of the village.

The village was valued at 100,000 dirhams by Umar's appraisers when he expelled its inhabitants to Syria. Umar took possession of the village and paid half of the price to the Jews.

Fadak Becomes the Prophet's (عليه السلام) Personal Property

Since the reason that motivated the inhabitants of Fadak to transfer its possession to Allah's Messenger (عليه السلام) was fear of the Muslims after they had conquered Khaibar, this property became the sole possession of the Prophet (S). This conforms to Allah's decree in the Holy Qur’an:

"What Allah has bestowed on His Apostle (and taken away) from them for this (which) ye made no expedition with either calvary or camelry: But Allah gives power to His Apostles over any He pleases: and Allah Has power over all things." (59: 6)

There was no dispute between the Muslims that Fadak belonged to the Prophet (S); rather, the disagreement was related to how much Fadak had the Jews granted him as part of the peace settlement. Thus, it is strange to hear Abu Bakr narrate a tradition from the Prophet saying:

"We the group of Prophets do not inherit, nor are we inherited; what we leave is for alms!!"

Because, had the Prophet actually said so (which is doubted), how did Abu Bakr understand from this saying that Fadak did not belong to him. There is clear contradiction in Abu Bakr's arguments.

Moreover, the following factors can be cited as proofs that the Prophet (S) granted Fadak to his noble daughter (as):

1. Fatima's saying to Imam ‘Ali (as):

"This is Ibn Abu Quhafa snatching away my father's grant to me."

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2. Fatima az-Zahra’s (sa) saying to Abu Bakr

"Surely Fadak was granted to me by my father, the Messenger of Allah (S)."

Especially in light of the fact that her infallibility prevents her from uttering falsehood, and from demanding anything, which does not rightfully belong to her.

3. ‘Ali (عليه السلام), the infallible Imam, would not allow his wife to demand something, which did not belong to her.

4. Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) wrote in his letter to Uthman Ibn Hunaif:

"Yes! Fadak was the only land from that which was under the heavens, in our hands; but the inclinations of certain men lusted for it and the souls of others relinquished it."

Hence, had it been part of the Prophet's (عليه السلام) inheritance, he (عليه السلام) would not have said that it belonged to them (‘Ali (عليه السلام) and Fatima az-Zahra (sa)).

5. Imam ‘Ali (عليه السلام) together with Um Ayman testified to the fact that Allah's Messenger (عليه السلام) granted it to Lady Fatima az-Zahra (sa), when Abu Bakr requested Fatima az-Zahra (sa) to summon witnesses to prove that he (Prophet (S)) had granted it to her.

1. According to Abu Bakr, Fadak did not belong to the Messenger of Allah (S); it rather was the property of all Muslims.

The Real Motives Which Lead Abu Bakr to Usurp Fadak from Fatima az-Zahra (sa)

1. Since Fadak brought large profits to its owners, ‘Ali (عليه السلام) could use this profit in his fight against Abu Bakr just as Lady Khadija (عليه السلام) used her wealth against the infidels.

2. The political challenge which Abu Bakr created, was aimed at proving to ‘Ali (عليه السلام) and Lady Fatima az-Zahra (sa) that the nation was not ready to aid them in an emotional issue in which he was successful in downgrading ‘Ali (عليه السلام) and Fatima az-Zahra (sa) by controlling and directing the public opinion. Listen to Abu Bakr as he speaks to the people after Fatima’s (sa) speech in the Mosque:

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"O people!

What is this attentiveness to every aimless speech?!

Where were these claims at the time of Allah's Messenger (عليه السلام)?

He who heard something should say so!

He who witnessed anything should speak out!

Surely they are (‘Ali (عليه السلام) and Fatima (sa), like foxes who have no witnesses save their tails!

They instigate every dissension!

And say: Renew (trouble) after it has cooled down

They seek help from the weak and acquire support from women

They are like Umm Tahal (a woman who was a prostitute during the era of ignorance) whose family chose prostitution for her

Surely if I wish 1 can say a lot; and

had I said (something), would have revealed (much).

But, I will remain silent as long as I am left alone."

3. Abu Bakr's drive to deprive Lady Fatima az-Zahra (sa) of her property had another underlying motive. Had Abu Bakr admitted Fatima’s (sa) words in regard to Fadak as undisputable facts, she could also claim her husband's right to leadership, which would force Abu Bakr to hand it back to ‘Ali (عليه السلام).

Ibn Abil-Hadid said: I asked ‘Ali Ibn Fareqi, a distinguished teacher of Madrassa-Gharbia, Baghdad: "Was Fatima truthful in making the claim (regarding Fadak)?"

He answered: "Yes!"

I said: "Did Abu Bakr know that she [Fatima az-Zahra (sa)] was a truthful woman?"

Again he answered: "Yes."

I then asked: "Then why did the Caliph not give that which she [(as)] was entitled to back to her?"

At that moment the teacher smiled, and said with great dignity:

"If he had accepted her word on that day and had returned Fadak to her on account of her being a truthful woman and without asking for any witnesses, she could very well use this position for the benefit of her husband on the following day and say:

`My husband, ‘Ali is entitled to the Caliphate,' and then the Caliph would have been obliged to surrender the Caliphate to ‘Ali on account of his having acknowledged her to be a truthful woman. However, in order to obviate any such claim, or, dispute, he deprived her of her undisputed right!"

4. Moreover, there were several emotional factors, which lead Abu Bakr to refuse Fatima, Khadija's daughter, her rights. Some of these factors are:

Once, the Prophet of Allah (S) sent Abu Bakr to the Muslims, during Hajj season, to recite for them the newly revealed Surah al-Tawbah, but before reaching his destination AbuBakr was stopped by ‘Ali Ibn Abu Talib who informed him that the Messenger commanded him to deliver the Surah himself; because according to the Prophet (S):

"No-one can take the Messenger's place save he (Messenger himself), or, someone from him."

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B. When the Prophet (S) was too ill to lead the prayers, Abu Bakr was asked by his daughter, Aisha, to do so. But, as soon as Allah's Messenger (عليه السلام) learned what was going on, he, supported by Imam ‘Ali and Abbas, came out and removed Abu Bakr, and led the prayers himself. The author of 'Fatima Umm Abiha' says in this regard:

"This event might have led Abu Bakr to think that Fatima az-Zahra (sa) was the one who informed the Prophet (S) of Abu Bakr's actions, just as Aisha told him (Abu Bakr) to lead the prayers!!"

Quote

C. Aisha, the Prophet's wife and Abu Bakr's daughter, had uncalled for feelings towards Fatima az-Zahra (sa), and her mother, Lady Khadija (عليه السلام).

For instance, Aisha said:

"Despite the fact that Lady Khadija (عليه السلام) died three years before the Prophet (S) married me, I did not have a feeling of envy" for anyone as much as I had for her. This was because he (the Prophet) used to mention her name constantly, and he was ordered by HIS Almighty Lord to give her the good news of a house made of brocade in Paradise. He also used to slaughter sheep, and distribute their meat among her (Lady Khadija's (as)) friends."

D. Aisha, Abu Bakr's daughter was sterile. Yet Lady Khadija (عليه السلام) was the only wife of the Prophet who had children that survived. Moreover, that child of Lady Khadija (عليه السلام) was Aisha's main adversary, Fatima az-Zahra (sa). So, the Messenger of Allah's (عليه السلام) descendants would only come from his daughter, and her husband, ‘Ali (عليه السلام). This surely was an unwelcomed fact to Aisha and her father, Abu Bakr.

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/abu-bakr-versus-fatima-az-zahra-sa

Qadri_01 · April 7

12 hours ago, علوي said:

We know that this hadith is fabricated, because it contradicts the Quran. Abu Bakr claims that the Prophet said "لاَ نُورَثُ" (Our property will not be inherited). The Quran clearly says:

وَوَرِثَ سُلَيْمَانُ دَاوُودَ
Solomon inherited from David. [27:16]

Notice the words.

Abu Bakr says "لاَ نُورَثُ".

Allah says "وَوَرِثَ".

Read that again. Seems like a pretty damn clear contradiction to me.

Let's continue.

It doesn't contradict the quran. Inheritance is of different types. Quran doesn't clarify the type of inheritance.

12 hours ago, علوي said:

Wait. What does the hadith in SAHIH AL-BUKHARI say? "فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ" - FATIMA GOT ANGRY.

"فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ بِنْتُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ" - FATIMA, DAUGHTER OF THE APOSTLE OF ALLAH, GOT ANGRY.

So... what did the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) say about someone who makes Fatima angry?

There is also a hadith which says ali got annoyed at fatima.

12 hours ago, علوي said:

Again notice the words:

"فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ" (FATIMA GOT ANGRY)

and

"مَنْ أَغْضَبَهَا أَغْضَبَنِي" (WHOEVER MAKES HER ANGRY, MAKES ME ANGRY)

So Abu Bakr made the Prophet of Allah angry.

ABU BAKR MADE THE PROPHET OF ALLAH ANGRY

ABU

BAKR

MADE

THE

PROPHET

OF

ALLAH

ANGRY

And I think you can agree that, automatically, the anger of the Prophet of Allah is the anger (غَضَبِ) of Allah Himself, because the Prophet does not speak anything except revelation, as Allah says in Surat al-Najm (53:1-4). So Abu Bakr made Allah Himself angry. What happens to people with whom Allah is angry?

وَمَنْ يَحْلِلْ عَلَيْهِ غَضَبِي فَقَدْ هَوَىٰ
and he on whom My wrath (غَضَبِ) descends certainly perishes. [20:81]

Sorry, but my master isn't the one who angered Allah by angered Fatima. My master is the one who married Fatima.

The rest of the hadith is irrelevant, but I'll include it lest you say I accepted part and ignored part

All this proves nothing. Ali got angry at fatima according to your authentic narrations. If we apply your logic, then it would mean that ali got annoyed at rasulullah, since getting annoyed at fatima means you get annoyed at rasulullah.

Qadri_01 · April 7

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

This narration is total fabrication by people likewise Miswar bin Makhramah who has narrated such fabrications from enemies of prophet Muhammad (pbu) & amir al muminin imam Ali(عليه السلام) & lady Fatima (sa) likewise cursed Mughair ibn Shu'ba & cursed Mrawan ibn Hakam & etc

Narrated `Urwa bin Az-Zubair:

That he heard Marwan bin Al-Hakam and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama relating one of the events that happened to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in the `Umra of Al-Hudaibiya.......https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4180

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama and Marwan:

That's a different hadith. I was talking about the hadith which is mentioned in tahdheeb ul ahkam.

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

lol you have tried to defeat shias from their sources while you don't believe to authenticity of shia sources anyway we can expose your fabrication & falsehood so then we can prove our superiority & being right even from your sources while you can't do it ; when you face refutation by shias so then you say that shia sources are not Hujjah for you & you are not obliged to believe to shia sources

When we use shia hadith against you, it doesn't mean we believe in it. We use bible against Christians that doesn't mean we believe in it. Learn the basics of debate.

Qadri_01 · April 7

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Fatima's saying to Imam ‘Ali (as):

"This is Ibn Abu Quhafa snatching away my father's grant to me."

This hadith is fabrication.

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Ibn Abil-Hadid said: I asked ‘Ali Ibn Fareqi, a distinguished teacher of Madrassa-Gharbia, Baghdad: "Was Fatima truthful in making the claim (regarding Fadak)?"

He answered: "Yes!"

I said: "Did Abu Bakr know that she [Fatima az-Zahra (sa)] was a truthful woman?"

Again he answered: "Yes."

I then asked: "Then why did the Caliph not give that which she [(as)] was entitled to back to her?"

At that moment the teacher smiled, and said with great dignity:

"If he had accepted her word on that day and had returned Fadak to her on account of her being a truthful woman and without asking for any witnesses, she could very well use this position for the benefit of her husband on the following day and say:

`My husband, ‘Ali is entitled to the Caliphate,' and then the Caliph would have been obliged to surrender the Caliphate to ‘Ali on account of his having acknowledged her to be a truthful woman. However, in order to obviate any such claim, or, dispute, he deprived her of her undisputed right!"

Lol. Ibn abil hadeed was lucky that me or brother sunnism wasn't present there. We would have ripped him apart (intellectually ofcourse). Secondly ibn abil hadeed was a mutazili. You have no idea how harsh we sunnis were against them.

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Moreover, there were several emotional factors, which lead Abu Bakr to refuse Fatima, Khadija's daughter, her rights. Some of these factors are:

Once, the Prophet of Allah (S) sent Abu Bakr to the Muslims, during Hajj season, to recite for them the newly revealed Surah al-Tawbah, but before reaching his destination AbuBakr was stopped by ‘Ali Ibn Abu Talib who informed him that the Messenger commanded him to deliver the Surah himself; because according to the Prophet (S):

"No-one can take the Messenger's place save he (Messenger himself), or, someone from him."

Lol, where did that come from. You are really getting desperate now.

**Abu Hadi** · April 7

On 1/17/2003 at 3:42 PM, Sunni Student said:

Salam to all,

Recently I was having discussion with my shia classmate on the issue of Fadak. Now there is one question which he had asked me, but that question looked rather silly to me but still i want to ask u (esp shias) what do u say abt this question and can u give ur own views.

The question is that My friend asked that, hazrat abu bakr (رضي الله عنه) told that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said no prophet leaves inheritance for his family ...

وَوَرِثَ سُلَيْمَـٰنُ دَاوُۥدَ وَقَالَ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ عُلِّمْنَا مَنطِقَ ٱلطَّيْرِ وَأُوتِينَا مِن كُلِّ شَىْءٍ إِنَّ هَـٰذَا لَهُوَ ٱلْفَضْلُ ٱلْمُبِينُ

Holy Quran 27:16

Soloman inherited David. You think Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) was not aware of this ayat ? Or that Soloman was the son of Dawood ? This hadith is fabricated. Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) never said this statment. Whoever fabricated this hadith should have read the Quran first.

Besides that, Fadak was not part of the inheritance because it was given to Fatima((عليه السلام)) in his(Rasoulallahs) lifetime.

I think you should read the speech of Fatima Zahram((عليه السلام)) called 'Fadikkyah' where she totally and completely refutes every argument of Abu Bakr as to why Fadak should not be given to her.

https://www.al-islam.org/fatimiyyah-ashura-lutfullah-safi-golpaygani/historic-fadak-sermon-fatimah

I

Edited April 7 by Abu Hadi

Qadri_01 · April 7

The whole "fadikiyyah" Sermon is fabricated

Future_Banker_Insha Allah · April 7

On 1/17/2003 at 8:42 PM, Sunni Student said:

Salam to all,

Recently I was having discussion with my shia classmate on the issue of Fadak. Now there is one question which he had asked me, but that question looked rather silly to me but still i want to ask u (esp shias) what do u say abt this question and can u give ur own views.

The question is that My friend asked that, hazrat abu bakr (رضي الله عنه) told that Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said no prophet leaves inheritance for his family but gives his property and land as a charity. But if we do belive this ahadith, then as we already know that Allah had made Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) a prophet and a khalifa on earth, and as we all know that we all are sons and daughters of Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) , so why do we inherit land? if this ahadith is correct, bcz we all are children of a prophet! If this ahadith was correct then we (whether Muslims, chritians, jews, etc) would not inherit this land (earth), Hazrat Adam (عليه السلام) would have given this land either to jinns or aliens as charity!!!

I just want ur views concerning his question, i have also posted this question on other sunni site to have their answers.

salaam, dawg it's simple. abu bakr made this comment on his own he made it up. Proof? Fatima (SA) gave a verse from the quran proving inheritance. and as we all know hadith contradicting a quranic verse are deemed fabricated in both shia and suniism.

علوي · April 7

5 hours ago, Qadri_01 said:

There is also a hadith which says ali got annoyed at fatima

Fabricated.

علوي · April 7

3 hours ago, Qadri_01 said:

The whole "fadikiyyah" Sermon is fabricated

Even if it is, that doesn’t mean the arguments don’t exist. Read the sermon anyway, or I can summarise important points here if you want.

**Abu Hadi** · April 7

5 hours ago, Qadri_01 said:

The whole "fadikiyyah" Sermon is fabricated

That was the answer I expected from you. Anything u don't like is fabricated.

I proved that the ops Hadith was fabricated from the contents of the Hadith itself. Apparently you think u can just say something is fabricated and then everyone here will automatically believe you ?

Edited April 7 by Abu Hadi

sunnism · April 8

3 hours ago, علوي said:

Fabricated.

Why? Because it doesn't suits your desires.

3 hours ago, علوي said:

Even if it is, that doesn’t mean the arguments don’t exist. Read the sermon anyway, or I can summarise important points here if you want.

Doesn't matter. Even if arguments exists the whole fatima giving sermon against abu bakr is fabricated. And read your narrations. Fadak is fay which is transfered to the ruler after prophet, not inherited.

sunnism · April 8

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

That was the answer I expected from you. Anything u don't like is fabricated.

I proved that the ops Hadith was fabricated from the contents of the Hadith itself. Apparently you think u can just say something is fabricated and then everyone here will automatically believe you ?

The hadith isn't fabricated just because it doesn't suit our desires. It is fabricated because its chain is filled with unknown people and fabricators.

As far as sunnis rejecting narrations what they don't like, then you do this too. I can quote authentic narrations from shia books like tahdheeb ul ahkam on prohibition of mutah, 'salatu khayru minnanoum' being sunnah in adhan and reciting ameen after fatiha being good act, and your scholars ruled them as taqiyyah. We can also say that anything you people don't like will automatically be considered as taqiyyah.

علوي · April 9

23 hours ago, sunnism said:

Why? Because it doesn't suits your desires.

Because it doesn't suit the Prophet's words that Ali is with the Truth and the Truth is with Ali. (Tarikh Baghdad)

Or that Ali is with the Quran and the Quran is with Ali. (Mustadrak Hakim al-Nisapuri)

Or that Ali is from him and he is from Ali. (Tirmidhi)

Why would the Prophet allow Ali to marry Fatima if he knew that he would anger her, in turn angering him? Why would he allow Ali, who angered him, to be the father of his grandsons? It doesn't add up.

23 hours ago, sunnism said:

Fadak is fay which is transfered to the ruler after prophet, not inherited.

Even if that's true, the ruler after the Prophet was Imam Ali. Abu Bakr usurped it from him.

It doesn't matter anyway. You're dodging and distracting from the argument:

1. The Prophet is angry with he whom Fatima is angry with. (Bukhari, Muslim)

2. Fatima was angry with Abu Bakr. (Bukhari, Muslim)

Therefore,

The Prophet was angry with Abu Bakr.

This is not a light issue. Fatima died insisting on not talking to Abu Bakr. When she died (and why did she die at such a young age, by the way?) Ali buried her secretly during the night, without Abu Bakr's knowledge. (Bukhari) This isn't just a small dispute between two random people; this is between the daughter of the Prophet of Allah, who is a part of him, (Bukhari, Muslim), who was raised on tawheed by the best of creation, and an ex-alcoholic kafir jahil who was condemned by Allah in Surat al-Hujurat. (Bukhari, Tirmidhi, Nasa'i)

How do you think the Day of Judgement is going to play out? Do you think that when Abu Bakr sees the Prophet, the Prophet is going to embrace him with open arms after he angered his daughter, in turn angering himself? Do you think the Prophet is going to side with Abu Bakr against his own daughter, who is a part of him?

Forget that. Brother, don't you have fear for yourself meeting the Prophet on the Day of Judgement? How will you defend yourself for justifying the anger of the Messenger of Allah?

I've presented my evidence, if you want to further defend angering the Prophet of Allah, you can do it with someone else. I leave you with this hadith.

Quote

فقالت: نشدتكما الله ألم تسمعا رسول الله يقول: رضا فاطمة من رضاي، وسخط فاطمة من سخطي، فمن أحب فاطمة ابنتي فقد أحبني، ومن أرضى فاطمة فقد أرضاني، ومن أسخط فاطمة فقد أسخطني؟ " قالا: نعم سمعناه من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، قالت: فإني أشهد الله وملائكته أنكما أسخطتماني وما أرضيتماني، ولئن لقيت النبي لأشكونكما إليه، فقال أبو بكر: أنا عائذ بالله تعالى من سخطه وسخطك يا فاطمة، ثم انتحب أبو بكر يبكي، حتى كادت نفسه أن تزهق، وهي تقول: والله لأدعون الله عليك في كل صلاة أصليها، ثم خرج باكيا

She [Fatima] said [to Abu Bakr and Omar]: 'I ask you, didn't you hear the Apostle of Allah saying,
"The pleasure of Fatima is from my pleasure and the anger (سخط) of Fatima is from my anger. Whoever loves my daughter Fatima has love me; whoever pleases Fatima has pleased me; and whoever angers Fatima has angered me"?'
They said, 'Yes, we have heard this from the Apostle of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).'
She said, 'Then I call Allah and His angels to bear witness that you two have angered me, and you have not pleased me, and that when I meet the Prophet I will complain to him about you two.'
Abu Bakr said, "I seek refuge in Allah, the High, from his anger and your anger, O Fatima.'
Then Abu Bakr sobbed and cried until he nearly died, while she was saying, "By Allah, I will pray to Allah against you in every salah I pray." Abu Bakr went out, sobbing...

(Al-Imamah wal-Siyasah)

Ashvazdanghe · April 9

On 4/5/2024 at 11:48 PM, sunnism said:

Ali also had argument with fatima once.

Imam Ali’s Regard for Lady Fatima s.a

SHAFAQNA-Ali’s regard for Fatema was the same as was the regard of the Holy Prophet for Lady Khadija. Until the life of Lady Khadija, the Holy Prophet did not accept the hand of any other woman and likewise until the life of Fatema, Ali did not marry any other woman.

The critics of Islam, in their ignorance of the truth, betray their prejudice in their venture to criticise saying that the Holy Prophet was extremely polygamous

https://india.shafaqna.com/EN/imam-alis-regard-for-lady-fatima-s-a/

Many narrations illustrate how Imam Ali (عليه السلام) spoke to others of his love and admiration for his wife. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) has said about Lady Fatima (عليه السلام), “When I looked at her, my griefs and sorrows were relieved¹.”While it was common practice to have more than one wife, Imam Ali (عليه السلام), in his loyalty solely to Lady Fatima (عليه السلام), never married another woman during her lifetime. He displayed profound respect for her emotions and autonomy: “By Allah, I did never anger her or force her to do something (unwillingly)…”¹

Quote

In some sources, it has been mentioned that the Prophet (S) had determined for Fatimah (s.a.) the work inside the house and for Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) the work outside the house.37

The life of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) and Fatimah (s.a.) was full of love and friendliness. About that Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘By Allah, I did never anger her or force her to do something (unwillingly) until Allah took her to the better world. She also did never anger me nor did she disobey me in anything at all. When I looked at her, my griefs and sorrows were relieved.’38

38.Bihar al-Anwar, vol.43 p.133 quoted from Amali at-Toosi.

1 https://www.al-islam.org/life-fatimah-az-zahra-principal-all-women-study-and-analysis-baqir-sharif-al-qurashi/marriage

https://www.thelegacy.org.uk/imam-ali/a-model-for-love-imam-ali-ass-devotion-to-lady-fatima-as/

Quote

The Prophet (S) recommended Fatimah (s.a.) not to insist on Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) to buy her anything from the pleasures of the worldly life. She said to Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).), “The messenger of Allah (S) had forbidden me from asking you for anything. He said to me, ‘Do not ask your cousin for anything. If he himself brings you something (accept it); otherwise, do not ask him for anything.’”

https://almerja.com/en/more.php?pid=1583

Quote

Chastity and Veiling

Fatimah (s.a.) was the highest example in chastity, honor and veiling for all Muslim women.

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘Once, a blind man asked permission to visit Fatimah (s.a.), but she asked him to stay behind a screen. The messenger of Allah (S) asked Fatimah (s.a.), ‘Why did you screen him though he is blind and could not see you?’

She said, ‘He could not see me, but I could see him.’

The Prophet (S) said, ‘I witness that you are a part from me.’7

7.Bihar al-Anwar, vol.43 p.91.

Once, Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) asked Fatimah (s.a.), ‘When is woman closer to her Lord?’

She said, ‘When she keeps to her house…’

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) offered her answer to the Prophet (S) who said, ‘She is true. Fatimah is a part from me.’8

8.Al-Ja’fariyyat, p.95.

During the era of Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).) there lived a rich man by the name of Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, whom as the custom of the pre-Islamic era believed a large dowry [Dowry, also known as Sidaq refers to a wealth that a husband offers his wife as a gift to show his true intention.] to present a woman’s value and her husband’s superiority in society. Abdur Rahman ibn Awf visited Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and said, “If you give Lady Fatimah’s (sa) hand in marriage to me, I will put as her dowry a hundred camels covered with expensive Egyptian cloth followed by a thousand gold Dinars!”
Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) asked, “Do you think I am the servant of wealth and money that you try to impress me with these things?”

Other than Abdur Rahman ibn Awf, there were many other men like Abu Bakr, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Uthman from the companions (Sahabah) of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who would ask Lady Fatimah’s (sa) hand in marriage for reasons ranging from her well-known virtues to her relation to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and a noble family. However, all suitors were refused for as Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had said,
Lady Fatimah’s (sa) marriage had been decreed by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). And with the descent of the angel of revelation, Hazrat Jibril (Gabriel) Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) had been commanded to marry Lady Fatimah to Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام).

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has said in this regards, an angel came to me from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and said, “The Lord sends his greetings unto you and has said, I have wedded your daughter Fatimah in the heavens to Ali ibn Abi Talib; you too therefore wed Fatimah to Ali ibn Abi Talib!”
It is mentioned in the narratives that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “If Ali didn’t exist, there would be no mate for Fatimah.”

https://shiastudies.com/en/16656/marriage-hazrat-fatima-al-zahra-s-imam-ali-ibn-abi-talib-s/

Fatimah (s.a.) The Loyal wife of Ali

لو لم يخلق علىٌّ لم يكن لفاطمة كفو

“In the event that Ali would not have been created, there would have been no one worthy to be Fatimah’s (s.a..) spouse.”1^ٌ

A Marriage Made in Heaven

The extraordinary virtues of Fatimah on one side, and on the other side, her blood relations with the Prophet (S) and still on another side, the nobility of her family, caused many of the high - ranking supporters of the Prophet (S) to propose to her; but all heard negative answers.

The interesting point here being that the Prophet (S) would usually answer them, saying:

أمرها الى ربِّها

“Her matter is in the hands of her Lord.”

The strangest case was the proposal of “Abdul Rahman Ibn Awf”, that rich man who, by the customs of Age of Ignorance, looked at everything through the material viewing window, visualizing a heavy dowry as the sign of a woman’s personal status and the superior position of the husband.
He came to see the Prophet (S), saying:
“If you will give Fatimah to me in marriage, I will make her a dower of one hundred camels with loads of precious material from Egypt along with 10000 Dinars in gold!”

The Prophet (S) was so enraged by this meaningless proposal that he took a handful of gravel and threw it towards Abdul Rahman and said:
“You thought that I was a servant of money and wealth that you are expressing pride in your money and wealth.” 2

Yes, in Fatimah’s marriage proposal, Islamic examples must be defined, the customs of ignorance suppressed, and the standards of Islamic values made clear.

The people were speaking of these very things when suddenly everywhere it was heard that the prophet (S) wished to give his only daughter to Ali ibn Abi Talib ((عليه السلام).) in marriage. Ali ibn Talib ((عليه السلام).) who was in accessed to worldly wealth and possessions, and possessed none of the standards of the Age of Ignorance, but was instead from head to toe full of faith and real Islamic values.

When they investigated this, it became clear that the indicator I guide of the Prophet (S) in this blessed historical marriage was a heavenly revelation, because he said himself:

(صلى الله عليه وآله)قال:أتاني ملك فقال يا محمد ان الله يقرئك السلام و يقول لك: إنى قد زوجت فاطمة ابنتك من عليٍّ ابن أبى طالب في الملأ الاعلى، فزوجها منه في الأرض

“An Angel of God came to me and said; God sends you greetings and says that in heaven I have made Fatimah the wife of Ali ibn Abi Talib. You also marry her to Ali on earth.” 3

1.كنوز الحقائق، ص124 “KanzuI -Haqaeq” pg. 124
2.“Tezkerat-ul-Khawas” - pg. 306
3.ذخائر العقبى، ص31 “Thaka’er-Al-Uqba” pg. 31

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-az-zahra-worlds-most-outstanding-lady-naser-makarem-shirazi/fatimah-sa-loyal-wife-ali

Reference	: Sunan Ibn Majah 1999
In-book reference	: Book 9, Hadith 155
English translation	: Vol. 3, Book 9, Hadith 1999

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