Why did Jesus die.

[trinity3n1]

Why did Jesus have to die for our sins?

Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.

All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not law for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death, separation from God. Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:5-6) and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.

The following outline is an attempt to break this down, step by step, using scripture and logic. I hope that it helps you understand why God is our savior and not some created thing. Also, I hope that it helps you understand that you must trust in Christ alone for the forgiveness of your sins; that you can do nothing on your own to merit salvation from God.

God exists.

Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

God is infinite

Psalm 90:2, "Before the mountains were born, Or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God."

Psalm 147:5, "Great is our Lord, and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite."

Jer. 23:24, "Can a man hide himself in hiding places, So I do not see him?” declares the Lord. “Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the Lord."

God is holy

Isaiah 6:3, "And one called out to another and said, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory.”

Rev. 4:8 "And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come."

God is righteous

Neh. 9:32-33, "Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who dost keep covenant and lovingkindness, Do not let all the hardship seem insignificant before Thee, Which has come upon us, our kings, our princes, our priests, our prophets, our fathers, and on all Thy people, From the days of the kings of Assyria to this day. 33“However, Thou art just in all that has come upon us."

2 Thess. 1:6, "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you."

Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.

Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of what He is.

Matt. 12:34, "...For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart."

God spoke the Law

Exodus 20:1-17, "Then God spoke all these words, saying, 2“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 “You shall have no other gods before Me...."

Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and good.

Rom. 7:12, "So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."

Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite.

Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored.

Amos 2:4, "Thus says the Lord, “For three transgressions of Judah and for four I will not revoke its punishment, because they rejected the law of the Lord And have not kept His statutes."

Rom. 4:15, "...for the Law brings about wrath."

God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death.

Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die."

Rom. 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation.

Rom. 1:18, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness."

Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous. character.

Gal. 2:16, "...by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh).

Rom. 8:3, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son..."

Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.

This is simple logic. If we are unable to fulfill the Law, then we will be punished by it. But, since God desires us to be saved, the Law must be satisfied. Since we cannot keep the Law and it must be satisfied, then the only one capable of keeping the Law must keep the Law: God.

Jesus is God in flesh.

John 1:1,14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Jesus was also a man under the Law.

1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Gal. 4:5-6, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."

Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins in His body on the cross, thus fulfilling the Law.

2 Cor. 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."

Rom. 8:3-4, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh. 4in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."

Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place.

Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast."

Gal. 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree."

Eph. 5:2, "and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusdieforsins.htm

Edited October 3, 2004 by trinity3n1

[Guest Mehdi_Husain_Lover]

Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.

All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not law for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death, separation from God. Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:5-6) and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.

The following outline is an attempt to break this down, step by step, using scripture and logic. I hope that it helps you understand why God is our savior and not some created thing. Also, I hope that it helps you understand that you must trust in Christ alone for the forgiveness of your sins; that you can do nothing on your own to merit salvation from God.

Logically, it is saying that God planned something but wasn't expecting the results right?

[munna]

"Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh"

munna reads: Jesus (God) had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord (God).

ok God died.. so then how can we still "go and be with God" when God is already dead?

[Guest Mehdi_Husain_Lover]

And btw

Jesus (God) was saying "My God My God, why have thou forsaken me?" if he was really sent to earth to save sin????

[sayedzeeshan]

Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord

I think this is the summary of all what you have written???

Just answer me one thing

If Jesus died for the sins of all christianity [there are every kind of sin and sinners in christian community today] so is it justice that God will forgive the sinners and place them in same rank[saved] as the good people. Why should a christian do good if he know that he would be saved at the end of the day.

[trinity3n1]

I think this is the summary of all what you have written???

Just answer me one thing

If Jesus died for the sins of all christianity [there are every kind of sin and sinners in christian community today] so is it justice that God will forgive the sinners and place them in same rank[saved] as the good people. Why should a christian do good if he know that he would be saved at the end of the day.

Jesus died for all not just 'all' of Christianity, secondly if a person is a Christian it is in his nature to do 'good'...we don't seek evil, and if you do (as a Christian) then it is your regeneration or salvation that is reconsidered.

Jesus (God) was saying "My God My God, why have thou forsaken me?" if he was really sent to earth to save sin????

God had to turn away from sin, Jesus was human and a questioning of his God is a very very human response. I don't see how Jesus couldn't save the earth because he uttered this, but perhaps maybe you can enlighten me.

munna reads: Jesus (God) had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord (God).

Munna NEEDS to understand the nature of God, and the divine plurality in the Godhead, I can explain but will you listen- so far none of your brothers have.

Logically, it is saying that God planned something but wasn't expecting the results right?

That statement is not true, who are you to say that, I can consider this a very great plan, see God knew what would happen and had already prepared the method by which an atonement would be made. So God planned this all, and considered the creation, fall, and salvation of man very worth the risk.

But the article does make some very outstanding claims, pleanse ask me more questions and I will gladly respond.

[alifaia]

Goodmorning everyone...

Logically, it is saying that God planned something but wasn't expecting the results right?

That statement is not true, who are you to say that, I can consider this a very great plan, see God knew what would happen and had already prepared the method by which an atonement would be made. So God planned this all, and considered the creation, fall, and salvation of man very worth the risk.

Hi Trinity... long time... hope all is well with you.... although this comes under the divine destiny v/s free will topic... i guess it is relevent here as well... i agree the the first quote isnt right... it would be impossible for God not to know... anything... i mean its not like you roll a ball on the ground and then just wait and see where it will go and stop... so what i am trying to say is... if all this "sin" and "fall from grace" and "evil" was a pre-planned event by God... wouldnt it be true that man didnt have a choice in the first place... and that we were forced into something we couldnt do? i.e. be sin free? Donno if it makes sense to you...

Consider this... if a person is judged for something he apperently did.. (apperently because he didnt have a real choice in the matter the decision was alread made even before he started out) ... well.. would it be fair on the judge's part to condem or otherwise this person and would it be fair on the "sinner's" part to accept this judgment???

Looking forward to your response

Thnaks

Ali

[Guest Mehdi_Husain_Lover]

God had to turn away from sin, Jesus was human and a questioning of his God is a very very human response. I don't see how Jesus couldn't save the earth because he uttered this, but perhaps maybe you can enlighten me.

So you are trying to say that Jesus the God wasnt God but a mere human? I am basically giving you a hint that if someone were to save your life, they wouldnt be blamin others for their pain would they? I am sure not.

peace

Mehdi

[sayedzeeshan]

Jesus died for all not just 'all' of Christianity, secondly if a person is a Christian it is in his nature to do 'good'...we don't seek evil, and if you do (as a Christian) then it is your regeneration or salvation that is reconsidered.

But we see christians commiting sins everwhere???

How every christian is good????

[trinity3n1]

So you are trying to say that Jesus the God wasnt God but a mere human? I am basically giving you a hint that if someone were to save your life, they wouldnt be blamin others for their pain would they? I am sure not.

I am saying both, and I am also saying that doubt is a very human response.

I also believe that most of you are ignoring the point of this thread, God is infinitely satisfied by Christ's sacrifice since it is eternal. Sin is very real, and all Muslims have to deal with it, however; if Allah kept with his attributes, how would he deal with sin?

[kadhim]

God is infinitely satisfied by Christ's sacrifice since it is eternal.

Actually, the supposed sacrifice lasted only 9 hours. Well below the average of 1-2 days it takes to kill a normal human being through crucifixion. Wow. Christians make God out to be a real wuss, don't they? :lol:

Edited October 4, 2004 by kadhim

[trinity3n1]

Comments that are not contructive are destructive, if you have nothing good to say then mind your business :angry:

[kadhim]

It's absolutely relevant. How is such an obviously lame attempt at human suffering supposed to atone for the sins of all humanity? :lol:

Edited October 4, 2004 by kadhim

[Jat]

Well i think Trinity,reading ur concept of God and Jesus,

Munna should read:god did suicide(otherwise who could kill him)

[munna]

Jat :P :D

Trinity,

I wasnt trying to be cynical in anyway in my first post, but i actually did read your statement the way i wrote above. And because it was the very first statement, i am sorry i stopped reading after that. I am willing to listen to the your view on plurality of Godhead.

please explain the answer to this question in your next post: if God died.. so then how can we still "go and be with God" when God is already dead?

Peace

Munna

[trinity3n1]

It's absolutely relevant. How is such an obviously lame attempt at human suffering supposed to atone for the sins of all humanity?

Its very irrelevant since you haven't read the whole thread, so put up or shut up. :angry:

please explain the answer to this question in your next post: if God died.. so then how can we still "go and be with God" when God is already dead?

Jesus the man died, God resurrected him on the third day so he isn't dead.

[kadhim]

Its very irrelevant since you haven't read the whole thread, so put up or shut up. 

And how do you know what I've read or haven't read? I'm not going to shut up, and I'm not going to put up with dogma that is nonsense.

[munna]

Trinity,

Unfortunately you just contradicted yourself big time. You have accepted that Jesus(pbuh) was a man and not God. Therefore according to your last post it is very easy to conclude, that your initial post was completely wrong (because one of the very first sentences state that Jesus (pbuh) was God).

brothers make peace, and have tolerance :D

Munna

[alifaia]

ok... so it was Jesus the man who died... who was reserructed??? Jesus the man?? and after this during the ascension period... when Jesus was seen by his disciples with the stigmata (is that the right word??) was he still full human and full god?

thanks

Ali

[trinity3n1]

Trinity,

Unfortunately you just contradicted yourself big time. You have accepted that Jesus(pbuh) was a man and not God. Therefore according to your last post it is very easy to conclude, that your initial post was completely wrong (because one of the very first sentences state that Jesus  was God).

No. I didn't contradict myself, the truth is that Jesus is God and Man, being a man and God the man died being God the sacrifice was eternal and satisfactory to the transgression commited against the LORD.

[confused67]

No. I didn't contradict myself, the truth is that Jesus is God and Man, being a man and God the man died being God the sacrifice was eternal and satisfactory to the transgression commited against the LORD.

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Solely because Jesus claimed it? If Moses claimed to be God and Moses was meant to be the Test Prophet (Assuming the Text is correct) then today we would have Moses in Jesus's place as part of a Trinity God... :angel: So far everything that someone tries to us as proof that Jesus is God isn't enough to conclude it... ;)

[munna]

Sorry Trinity... it doesnt make sense.

peace :D

[confused67]

Sorry Trinity... it doesnt make sense.

peace

If Christianity made sense then we'd have nothing to discuss about back and forth for hours on end! God forbid that religion makes sense! :lol: Then we'd all be bored :D

[Mambang Tanah]

Logically, it is saying that God planned something but wasn't expecting the results right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Salams to all...

Actually what i thk is dat God merely need not have created men at all.. since God is gonna forgive everyone... wheres e justice here? n wats e point of living anyway? n yea.. it seems God didnt give us any choice by e way Bro trinity look at things...

Salams...

[Guest Mehdi_Husain_Lover]

I also believe that most of you are ignoring the point of this thread, God is infinitely satisfied by Christ's sacrifice since it is eternal. Sin is very real, and all Muslims have to deal with it, however; if Allah kept with his attributes, how would he deal with sin?

what has God done to deal with sin? simple answer, he gave us a book for the laws we have to follow, he sent us prophets..... etc. Now isnt that alot or is it too less? Now in your sentence, "God is infinetely satisfied by Christ's sacrifice" there are 2 different beings in that sentence. If there were one, it would only be God or either Christ.

[trinity3n1]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Solely because Jesus claimed it? If Moses claimed to be God and Moses was meant to be the Test Prophet (Assuming the Text is correct) then today we would have Moses in Jesus's place as part of a Trinity God...  So far everything that someone tries to us as proof that Jesus is God isn't enough to conclude it...

Jesus forgave sins, raised the dead, healed the sick,resurrected and claimed he was the alpha and omega. He shared glory with the Father.

Secondly, the Jews of the time were very religious people how in the world would you expect them to simply abandon there beliefs and begin to call Jesus God unless of course they saw something or Jesus proved it.

Sorry Trinity... it doesnt make sense.

Ah yes, the great argument set forth by 90% of you. Do me a favor don't waste your thread space. :angry:

Actually what i thk is dat God merely need not have created men at all.. since God is gonna forgive everyone... wheres e justice here? n wats e point of living anyway? n yea.. it seems God didnt give us any choice by e way Bro trinity look at things...

Obviously God considered creating worth the risk, and God doesn't forgive everyone everyone that isn't sincere with the LORD isn't saved and sentenced to hell.

what has God done to deal with sin? simple answer, he gave us a book for the laws we have to follow, he sent us prophets..... etc. Now isnt that alot or is it too less? Now in your sentence, "God is infinetely satisfied by Christ's sacrifice" there are 2 different beings in that sentence. If there were one, it would only be God or either Christ.

Sin is an infinite transgression how are you in your sins going to satisfy an infinite God? Sending prophets and books doesn't make you sinless, and you are still sinful how do you fix this problem for you offend God by sin? Answer the question please.

[munna]

:P Trinity :D no need to get angry

what i mean is explain what you meant by "the truth is that Jesus is God and Man, being a man and God the man died being God" if Jesus died being a God.. and was before a man... then why do you say he was the Son of God from the beginning? Also if he died being God and God was satisfied with Jesus (pbuh) sacrifice..this means God died and God was satisfied with his own sacrifice. huh? if he died how can he still be satisfied with himself.. considering he is dead.. back to my original question arent we? God died.. so then how can we still "go and be with God" when God is already dead?

also sending Prophets (pbut) and a book by Allah is a path sent ... telling ppl what is the right way and what is wrong... there are a WHOLE lot of things you need to do in order to not commit sin (note i said NOT commit sin: its hard for us humans to be sinless but we can try our best to avoid it), this is unlike the belief of Christianity, where if you believe Jesus (pbuh) sacrificed himself, that means you will go to heaven no matter what you do in this life.

peace :D

Edited October 7, 2004 by munna

[trinity3n1]

I'm not angry but your statements lack the substance, and the intellect you need to advance in this conversation. Now I will be glad to explain, but if you continue with your 'original question' then you will need to explain why you keep asking the same one.

what i mean is explain what you meant by "the truth is that Jesus is God and Man, being a man and God the man died being God" if Jesus died being a God.. and was before a man... then why do you say he was the Son of God from the beginning?

Inyour quest to keep asking the questions, you have failed to read where I have posted that Jesus was both God, and man.

Also if he died being God and God was satisfied with Jesus  sacrifice..this means God died and God was satisfied with his own sacrifice. huh? if he died how can he still be satisfied with himself.. considering he is dead.. back to my original question arent we? God died.. so then how can we still "go and be with God" when God is already dead?

God the Father was the one who willed God the Son to be sacrificed so we are reconciled to the Father, and God by the sacrifice of the Son.

also sending Prophets (pbut) and a book by Allah is a path sent ... telling ppl what is the right way and what is wrong... there are a WHOLE lot of things you need to do in order to not commit sin (note i said NOT commit sin: its hard for us humans to be sinless but we can try our best to avoid it), this is unlike the belief of Christianity, where if you believe Jesus  sacrificed himself, that means you will go to heaven no matter what you do in this life.

You are sinful and can't avoid it. I will go to heaven because it isn't what I do that gets me there, but what God does that gets me there, that way I can't boast. The whole notion of works to get to heaven is itself sinful sinceyou rely on yourself, and boasting is being prideful. YOu say you can rely on Gods mercy but mercy doesn't provide a method of fixing the problem between yourself and God.

[confused67]

Jesus forgave sins, raised the dead, healed the sick,resurrected and claimed he was the alpha and omega. He shared glory with the Father.

Secondly, the Jews of the time were very religious people how in the world would you expect them to simply abandon there beliefs and begin to call Jesus God unless of course they saw something or Jesus proved it.

Lazarus raised from the dead.... :angel: Also Jesus claiming it points to the Test Prophet ;) As for the forgiving of Sins and sharing glory, these are both things that link to the Test prophet.

Exactly Jesus didn't prove it. They did what they were commanded, they killed the Test Prophet and now you follow the Test Prophet's misleading teachings. ^_^

Bottom line, from your reasoning, if Moses was the Test Prophet God sent down, Christians would have Moses in Jesus's place in the Trinity and still follow the wrong path set by the Test prophet.

[trinity3n1]

How does Allah deal with sin this is the point of this thread.

[confused67]

How does Allah deal with sin this is the point of this thread.

Well if you would like to bravely combat my point of view on the topic that seems as drifted to, then visit my thread about the New Testament failing according to the Old.

In Islam if you want repentance you sincerely ask God. In Christianity it is just 'there' for anyone who wants it, 'Free'. Simple as that. The religions differ in opinion of how to obtain sin atonement. ;)

[Curran3927]

hey there, great job trinity in the NT failing according to OT thread.

In Christianity it is just 'there' for anyone who wants it, 'Free'. Simple as that.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In Christianity you can never earn your way into heaven, it is a free gift. That is the reason Jesus died.

Most Muslims that I speak to believe that you can earn your way into heaven through deeds. I do not believe that you can enter a perfect place unless you are perfect. Therefore if you have ever sinned, you will never earn your way into heaven: you will never deserve a place. Therefore, entry to heaven MUST be a gift, as it is never earned.

In Christianity, the price for our sin has been paid by Jesus Christ.

[Mambang Tanah]

hey there, great job trinity in the NT failing according to OT thread.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In Christianity you can never earn your way into heaven, it is a free gift. That is the reason Jesus died.

Most Muslims that I speak to believe that you can earn your way into heaven through deeds. I do not believe that you can enter a perfect place unless you are perfect. Therefore if you have ever sinned, you will never earn your way into heaven: you will never deserve a place. Therefore, entry to heaven MUST be a gift, as it is never earned.

In Christianity, the price for our sin has been paid by Jesus Christ.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Entering heaven is a GIFT and cannot be earned.God is great,just and merciful. Is dat not contradicting?

GOd is most merciful.He cld forgive our sins, y does He have to let someone else suffer for the sins that were created by others?Is that not lack of fairness?

The Bible says:

"Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. "

Clearly here it states that no one shall bear e sins of others.So it cannot be possible that Jesus sacrificed himself for others, if it were to be God's wish.

"Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die"

And the only way to redeem 1self towards heaven is his own action..That is by turning away from e sins.And that clearly specifies ENTERING HEAVEN IS NOT A GIFT which is FREE... It is EARNED by ACTIONS...

[trinity3n1]

Entering heaven is a GIFT and cannot be earned.God is great,just and merciful. Is dat not contradicting?

No.

GOd is most merciful.He cld forgive our sins, y does He have to let someone else suffer for the sins that were created by others?Is that not lack of fairness?

The Bible says:

"Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. "

This is funny, your attempts are futile- For this text not only proves how we Christians should live but attemps to show how we are responsible for our actions. The distinction is as myself, and a sinner- I am reborn and the other person isn't. Furthermore the Father isn't responsible for is Son, God the Father sent his Son- God took the sin upon himself. It doens't say that no one can suffer for others sins it says that the sins of people will not be on other people.

[Mambang Tanah]

No.

This is funny, your attempts are futile- For this text not only proves how we Christians should live but attemps to show how we are responsible for our actions. The distinction is as myself, and a sinner- I am reborn and the other person isn't. Furthermore the Father isn't responsible for is Son, God the Father sent his Son- God took the sin upon himself. It doens't say that no one can suffer for others sins it says that the sins of people will not be on other people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It does not says that.. Ur twisting it..