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In the Name of God بسم الله

Matam

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Proof of head beating from the Qur'an

In Surah adh-Dhaariyaat we read that Hadrath Sara (as) struck her face when she was told that she would conceive a baby.

"Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?"

Quran 51:29

"Faskath" does not just mean rub or touch, it means slap and this is evidenced from Saheeh Muslim Book 030, Number 5851, Bab Fadail Musa:

Abu Hurraira reported that the Angel of Death was sent to Moses (peace be upon him) to inform of his Lord's summons. When he came, he (Moses) boxed him [sakka] and his eye was knocked out. He (the Angel of Death) came back to the Lord and said: You sent me to a servant who did not want to die. Allah restored his eye to its proper place (and revived his eyesight), and then said: Go back to him and tell him that if he wants life he must place his hand on the back of an ox, and he would be granted as many years of life as the number of hair covered by his hand. He (Moses) said: My Lord what would happen then He said: Then you must court death. He said: Let it be now. And he supplicated Allah to bring him close to the sacred land. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: If I were there, I would have shown you his grave beside the road at the red mound.

;)

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(salam)

Please refer to Sura Yusuf (Chapter 12). The story of Hadrat Yaqub (as) and how he cried so much in sorrow and grief that he lost his sight. He 'harmed' himself because he lost someone who he dearly loved... his son Hadrat Yusuf (as). I am sure you will be able to find detailed proof in hadith if you look into this story.

Wasslaam (peace be upon all of you)

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Salam Alaikum,

Dear S. Fahad,

I think that your questions are logical questions.

I think that some or many shia have probably overdone the Aza ceremonies, especially the Aza in which they hurt themselves by swords (qama zani and tatbeer), chains with knives (Zanjeer) and other forms of self inflicting and hurting oneself. I was asked once by a dear christian sister a similar logical question: "Why do you Shia's do this to theirselves? are they crazy?" and I answered her by a whole report in one of the magazines about christians in Brazil, and other parts of south America and also some european countries, where on the day (in which they believe) Christ was crucified ( i think it is Easter), they have people crucifiying themselves, hurting them selves with knives, thorns on their heads and other disgusting ways of showing love to their lord. the pictures i showed her looked even worse than what the Shia do to themselves. They had sheep slaughtered with blood all around and stuff like that.

Anyway, you know what she told me after showing disgust with her facial indications : "this is not christianity, these are a bunch of fanatics and radicals and ignorant people". Exactly, I said and repeat to you my dear brother. This is not what Shiasim is about! Please let us diffrenciate between Shia and Shiasm, Sunni and sunnism and so forth.

Yes, many of these people, out of good will, love and willingness to show their sacrifice, perform these acts. The question is, do the knowledgable Shias, or whatever sect or religion accept this. For instance, the highest rank for a Shia Clergyman or 'Alem' (Man of religion) and the representative of shiasm is now the 'Wali al Faqih' and the Marajea.

Sayed Ali Khamenaei (Wali Al Faqih) condemns these actions, so do the majority of Ulamaa and Marajea. They consider it haram and unacceptable and past on to our culture from christian azerbaijanis in the past.

Any other form of azaa and hitting the chest to show grief and sorrow, without hurting yourself and bleeding is considered acceptable and logical.

Each culture has its own way of showing its emotions and will be acceptable as long as it is within certain logical limits.

And as for your question regarding, did this sort of aza exist during the prophet and imams days I will also tell you a story.

On my pilgramige to Hajj, I went to the pharmacy to buy a toothbrush. A salafi brother stopped me and said :"how can you leave the prophet's sunna which is the Meswak (a branch that people in the past used to clean their teeth with) and buy this Western tooth brush?" . I told him dear brother, how did you come to Madina? He said I live and hour away and I drove to here by car. Here I answered him : How could you leave the Prophet's sunna, which is the horse and camel and drive with a car?

Islam is Love

Allah is Love

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Religious leaders of the Shia world, since the begining, have been against hurting oneself and bleeding.

Regardless, dear sisters and brothers, the brain of a human being, logic, and all senses are against it.

Will the Imam Hussain himself accept you hurting yourself and bleeding for him? What use is he or you going to get? Yes, showing sorrow by beating your chest, without inflicting injury, or even the regular zanjeer, without tearing your beautiful body, created by Allah for you to use, is highly appreciated. Please do not bring surrahs and ayat from the Holy Quran to proof what does not need to be proven and cannot be proven.

the ayat all of you brought to support head beating from the quran, give me a break, they do not fit!!! unrelated!!! Zainab hitting her head against an iron rod and bleeding, is not proof for us to go ahead and do the same. By the way this story, if you go back and check history, was a very weak hadith and not accepted by many Ulamaa.

Please listen to the Quran, the Prophet, the Imams and also to your heart and thoughts.

We are all responsible in delivering His Message, not what we learn from society and family.

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(salam)

Subhan Allah, Brother HShams, your posts were really amazing and I was much impressed by your logic. However, I don't think you read the second post of Brother Syed Fahad. He wanted justification of matam itself (showing sorrow, grief, hitting ones chest, crying for the lost loved ones) from the Quran, not the justification of EXTREME emotional (and 'barbaric' if I may be so bold to say) acts of bleeding during matam (Atleast as far as I understood, he was only concerned with crying and beating of chest for the Martyrs (as) ).

Yes, showing sorrow by beating your chest, without inflicting injury, or even the regular zanjeer, without tearing your beautiful body, created by Allah for you to use, is highly appreciated.  Please do not bring surrahs and ayat from the Holy Quran to proof what does not need to be proven and cannot be proven.

Absolutely agreeable fact. Islam teaches CONTROL of emotions and desires. Isn't that why we fast and pray salat... if that is not curbing our desires and showing our obedience to Allah.. then what is it? However praying all day and all night without any regard for family or friends is absolutely wrong. Might as well say 'TOO much of ANYTHING is wrong' :)

Wassalaam (peace be upon all of you)

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Salam Ya Zafaryab,

Since the time of the Jahiliya, Before the light of Islam comes, and till the days of the Prophet and after that. History tells us that the way in which Arabs, and some other eastern traditions, used to mourn was as follows: having gatherings (Majlis) of mourning, sitting around each other and remembering the dead persons deeds, hitting on the chest and on the thighs in a very natural heartbroken way that any regular person would do (especially eastern people).

Yes it got evolved into rioting and going out to the streets, and that was a sign of showing the dictators and brutal governments, the oppressors, that shia are like their Imam Hussain, they will revolt against all forms of evil and oppression and will not stand deprivity of any sort.

Not everything is mentioned literally in the quran, I mean where in the quran does it show us how to pray? eventhough prayers is what diffrenciates a muslim from a kafir.

Infact, i need proof that going to matam and having aza is haram!

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"Those Nasibi who are against mourning for Imam Husayn (as) and for any of the martyrs of Karbala usually raise a question whether the Holy Prophet (s) had ordered mourning for Imam Husayn (as). "

Comment:

The answer to this question is:

"Did the Holy Prophet (pbuh) order Owais Qarni (ra) to remove all his teeth? Did he insist that the Bedouin beat his chest? Did he order Bilal to beat his head?

Did the holy Prophet (pbuh) .... forbade Owais Qarni to do that?

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I appluad your post brother.

Yes, that is my stance as well - at least until I see clearer proof from the Quran or authentic ahadith that state that it is ok to harm oneself in mourning.

To me, its not about matam being part of religion or not - its about matam being against ISLAMIC TEACHINGS or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi.... im here for the first time ... well without any delay, gues shall proceed.. matam... is it compulsory to beat ur chests... cant u just cry ... cant u just be sad and keep ur sadness in ur heart . coz i gues its every muslims belief that God knows best and he knows what in ones heart ... so why not let only God know how u feel for the Ahl-e-bait... why showing off is necessary...

2. when the tooth sharif of Hazrat Muhammad Sallalahualehiwaalihiwasallam was martyred , Hazrat Ovais Karni broke all his teeth... that was the matam of one teeth of RasulAllah Sallalahualehiwaalihiwasallam..... what im trying to say is that every1 of us knows what happened in Karbala ... the way Hazrat Imam Hussain was martyred ... is beating our chest enough as matam ?? i guess not ... i think we should kill ourselves... tell some1 to kill us the way Imam Hussain was martyred..we beat our chests and think thats enough ... matam is what Hazrat Ovais Karni did ... thats the right example of love ... and if we claim so much love for the Ahl-e-bait .. we should kill ourselves in their love ... that would be the proper way of matam... right ???

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(bismillah)

(salam)

matam... is it compulsory to beat ur chests... cant u just cry ... cant u just be sad and keep ur sadness in ur heart . coz i gues its every muslims belief that God knows best and he knows what in ones heart ... so why not let only God know how u feel for the Ahl-e-bait... why showing off is necessary

All the muslims have iman in tauheed. This iman is in our hearts. As you have rightly said " its every muslims belief that God knows best and he knows what in ones heart" . According to your logic, why not let only God know how we feel about tauheed... why show off by offering prayers, fasting in Ramazan, performing Haj, etc. In fact it is Allah Himself who, despite knowing what is in our hearts has made it mandatory for us to openly express our belief in tauheed through our actions. This is indeed Allah's Sunnat through which Allah shows us the right path to follow.

If it is perfectly alright to express our iman in tauheed than how can one criticise us if we express our love for those who sacrificed their lives for the sake of protecting the Aqeeda of Tauheed.

when the tooth sharif of Hazrat Muhammad Sallalahualehiwaalihiwasallam was martyred , Hazrat Ovais Karni broke all his teeth... that was the matam of one teeth of RasulAllah Sallalahualehiwaalihiwasallam.....  what im trying to say is that every1 of us knows what happened in Karbala ... the way Hazrat Imam Hussain was martyred ... is beating our chest enough as matam ?? i guess not ... i think we should kill ourselves... tell some1 to kill us the way Imam Hussain was martyred..we beat our chests and think thats enough ... matam is what Hazrat Ovais Karni did ... thats the right example of love ... and if we claim so much love for the Ahl-e-bait .. we should kill ourselves in their love ... that would be the proper way of matam... right ???

Are you implying that Imam Hussain (as) committed suicide (AstaghfirAllah), because this is what u are asking us to do. Remember, committing suicide (Killing oneself or deliberately asking someone to kill one) is Haram. We mourn the sufferings of AhlulBait (as) through all the means allowed by Islamic Shariah and suicide is definitely not one of those means.

Wasalam.

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Please delete posts of jahil persons who don't know laws of Islam.

I hope no one is idiot enough to try and commit suicide for the sake of Imam Hussain (as).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is the best part of u guys ... when it comes to give up ur life ... u remember whats haram and what isnt ... haan haan ... zanjeer maar ke khoon nikalna to Halaal hi halaal hai... right ??

and bibi ji ... Allah never asks us to show off our imaan ... "chupi hui ibadat afzal tareen ibadat hai"... i guess u dont know that ...

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(bismillah)

(salam)

bibi ji ... Allah never asks us to show off our imaan ... "chupi hui ibadat afzal tareen ibadat hai"... i guess u dont know that ...

Yes it is true that Allah never asks us to show-off our Iman, but it is also equally true that Keeping Iman only in our Hearts is not enough. Allah has ordered us to express our Iman through action (offering prayer, keeping Fast, etc). I repeat my question and hope this time you will not try to avoid it

When Allah knows all the secrets in our heart, He must also know about our Iman. Why then he has commanded us to express this Iman through action and not rely solely on the comfort of having Iman in our hearts? Obviously Allah doesnot need this expression to know the depth or shallowness of ones iman? What is the Hikmat behind this command?

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this is the best part of u guys ... when it comes to give up ur life ... u remember whats haram and what isnt ... haan haan ... zanjeer maar ke khoon nikalna to Halaal hi halaal hai... right ??

and bibi ji ... Allah never asks us to show off our imaan ... "chupi hui ibadat afzal tareen ibadat hai"... i guess u dont know that ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hasnain Bapoo & anyone else who has a problem with matam,

Leave all arguements to a side.

My imaan is mine. I will answer for every single action i do to my Lord (swt) aswell as beg for his mercy with the intercession of the Aimmah (as) for my sins. No one else is going to do the above for me. No one knows whats in my heart nor my intention except truly him (swt) - So why are you so concerned with my imaan? My belief? My practice?

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I want to know the background of matam of Zanjeer.

I think if it was really amongst history books then there wouldnt be so much problem with it.

There are many people they just do matam to show off to their friends who is hitting harder, I have seen they walk in straight after majlis purely for matam, no build up of the emotions during masaeb. These same people I have seen are the ones that are furthest from Namaaz.

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my ideal idea of a maatab is for a speaker who recounts what happened with no exageration, no wailing, no screaming. If one's tear come down naturally, that is fine, but nothing more, no chest beating, nothing.

another speaker, maybe, would remind us of the meaning of the imam's shahada and how it can benefit us both in our world and in the day after.

Edited by shunni
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